I find it extraordinary that anyone could think a Le Pen win would benefit the lives of British citizens, whatever your views of the EU. Insular nationalism takes us back to the past and you don't have to go back too far to see the tragic consequences of that particular mindset.
Really? You're down with having headscarves and Yarmulkes banned? Because western Europe has done similar things before, you know...
I agree with freedom of religious expression broadly but the UK could learn a lot from France's clear separation of church and state especially in education.
The UK is a relatively secular country yet millions of non-believers have to pretend to be otherwise to secure places for their kids in the best schools.
The sun is a british newspaper and reports news to Britain. I'm sure that surrender weekly, cheese eating daily, the daily frog or whatever the top selling French newspaper is called will report the election.
...and if Le Pen had won? Do you still think they would have run with a story about the cost of a telephone call?
Macron as someone who's relatively business friendly, looks like someone who's interested in getting the right results (e.g. with Brexit) rather than someone with political vendettas
But oné manifesto commitment which I think is absolutely ludicrous is to lower the pension age to 60. This shows somebody who is either cynically buying votes with no intention of sticking to her promise, or someone who really has no grip on how the world has changed. We live longer and healthier. I'm well over 60 now and have no idea when I would wish to stop working.
Lets indeed chew over other aspects of her manifesto; good idea; while bearing in mind that politicians have in the past made manifesto promises to gain power and then do other things no one expected.
Really? You're down with having headscarves and Yarmulkes banned? Because western Europe has done similar things before, you know...
I agree with freedom of religious expression broadly but the UK could learn a lot from France's clear separation of church and state especially in education.
The UK is a relatively secular country yet millions of non-believers have to pretend to be otherwise to secure places for their kids in the best schools.
Now this I completely agree with. I think all school education should be secular.
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
Economy On the economy I think Le Pen is too protectionist which could have much more damaging ramifications than Marcon's approach which is much more about deficit reduction.
Europe Macron supports a strong EU, and while I don't agree with his approach to sustain that it's better than undermining it like Le Pen.
Enviroment Macron wants to invest heavily in developing green technologies, working with other governments to do so, however in the area of environment I think Le Pen's policy of reducing pollution by maximising prodution in France rather than importing is noble.
Education Macron's proposed smaller class sizes, something that is proven to help improve the standard of education, Le Pen's backward approach was to "get back to the basics of teaching French, Maths & History" potentially leaving French children without the skills to get ahead in a globalised world.
Immigration Macron proposes training religious leaders so that they better understand French secular values. Le Pen proposes leaving Schengen & drastically reducing immigration at a time when Europe needs to come together to support refugees, not alienate them.
Security I believe Le Pen's approach of hard line nationalism and vilification of minorities is more dangerous to France, causing an increase in fundamentalism.
To add to @JollyRobin 's excellent analysis above:
- Referendum on anything proposed by 500,000 citizens or more. If adopted in the UK this would have meant a referendum on such things as declaring war on Iraq (fine in principle, but not in practice re military action of any kind) and whether to invite Trump for an official UK visit.
- leave NATO's integrated command
- 10% employer tax on hiring foreigners.
You also of course cannot judge a politician on the manifesto alone, but you asked the question in narrow terms, so for now I won't go into the wider issues of Le Pen, her history, and her supporters both domestic and international, which would all bring bad things to the continent.
1 in 9 or 4 million choose none of the above, when you take out those that felt it a duty to vote against a fascist, this number would have been much higher. Have we ever lived in more disenfranchised times?
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
I assume that you have French citizenship. May I ask how long you have had it, and do you have dual? How difficult was the test? (just interested as I plan to take dual citizenship, nothing to do with your views on the election)
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
So, let's get this straight.
You're an Englishman living in France - presumably because of freedom of movement facilitated by the EU - and yet you sympathise with a virulently anti immigrant candidate who wants to quit the EU and probably send you back to SE London.
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
So, let's get this straight.
You're an Englishman living in France - presumably because of freedom of movement facilitated by the EU - and yet you sympathise with a virulently anti immigrant candidate who wants to quit the EU and probably send you back to SE London.
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
Comments
Vive la Republic
Lowest for over 50 years.
Deary me.
With French and likely German electorate too voting for pro-EU candidates, makes Brexit negotiations tougher than they already were.
The UK is a relatively secular country yet millions of non-believers have to pretend to be otherwise to secure places for their kids in the best schools.
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
But oné manifesto commitment which I think is absolutely ludicrous is to lower the pension age to 60. This shows somebody who is either cynically buying votes with no intention of sticking to her promise, or someone who really has no grip on how the world has changed. We live longer and healthier. I'm well over 60 now and have no idea when I would wish to stop working.
Lets indeed chew over other aspects of her manifesto; good idea; while bearing in mind that politicians have in the past made manifesto promises to gain power and then do other things no one expected.
On the economy I think Le Pen is too protectionist which could have much more damaging ramifications than Marcon's approach which is much more about deficit reduction.
Europe
Macron supports a strong EU, and while I don't agree with his approach to sustain that it's better than undermining it like Le Pen.
Enviroment
Macron wants to invest heavily in developing green technologies, working with other governments to do so, however in the area of environment I think Le Pen's policy of reducing pollution by maximising prodution in France rather than importing is noble.
Education
Macron's proposed smaller class sizes, something that is proven to help improve the standard of education, Le Pen's backward approach was to "get back to the basics of teaching French, Maths & History" potentially leaving French children without the skills to get ahead in a globalised world.
Immigration
Macron proposes training religious leaders so that they better understand French secular values. Le Pen proposes leaving Schengen & drastically reducing immigration at a time when Europe needs to come together to support refugees, not alienate them.
Security
I believe Le Pen's approach of hard line nationalism and vilification of minorities is more dangerous to France, causing an increase in fundamentalism.
- Referendum on anything proposed by 500,000 citizens or more. If adopted in the UK this would have meant a referendum on such things as declaring war on Iraq (fine in principle, but not in practice re military action of any kind) and whether to invite Trump for an official UK visit.
- leave NATO's integrated command
- 10% employer tax on hiring foreigners.
You also of course cannot judge a politician on the manifesto alone, but you asked the question in narrow terms, so for now I won't go into the wider issues of Le Pen, her history, and her supporters both domestic and international, which would all bring bad things to the continent.
Good read this, taking understanding of his victory beyond the narrow "manifesto" question
How about a couple of would yas? Le Pen and/or Mrs Macron?
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
You wrote:
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
This tweet summarises the counter-argument
I assume that you have French citizenship. May I ask how long you have had it, and do you have dual? How difficult was the test? (just interested as I plan to take dual citizenship, nothing to do with your views on the election)
You're an Englishman living in France - presumably because of freedom of movement facilitated by the EU - and yet you sympathise with a virulently anti immigrant candidate who wants to quit the EU and probably send you back to SE London.
Righto.
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.