Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
I wish you all well
Grapevine49
Brilliant and insightful as always.
One point that you extrapolate needs to be reiterated: It's not just about buying the club, it's about funding it for the near to medium term future. And that requires both a significant amount of money coming in and over a sustained period of time.
Also, as I've speculated at various points, I expect the losses the club run under will get worse before they get better. We all know in football you must speculate to accumulate, so enhancing the squad, plus the addition of wages, plus the additions to the skeletal staff left by RD, let alone rebuilding the training ground, would all increase operating losses. And given the less than massive difference in money coming in between League One and the Championship, (keeping in mind bringing players in in the Championship would be more expensive, and wages would go up), even if we get promoted at the first time of asking you would expect those losses to continue for quite some time.
This is a huge expense, to say the least. Hopefully the delay is due to financial foresight by the Australian group, which I think is a reasonable assumption. Hopefully what is currently going on is putting together (again, it sounds like) a group where risk is spread out, and hopefully there is financial redundancy. And if that's the case, well done to them, it's the smart thing to do. If not, hopefully the EFL catches any flaws in their plans. It's a big leap of faith to rely on the EFL, but it's probably better than relying on Roland.
He called you a troll for daring to ask about Muir...… twice!
I think he was talking about Stu of Kunming........not me.....least I hope so!
Certainly wasn't you sir! Stu has a go at me at every opportunity for some reason best known to himself.
No, i dont, disagreeing with what you post is not having a go, you senile old goat.
Anyway. When I have time I'll reply to the offensive PM you have sent me at 1am.
That’s quite wrong sending PMs to people that are offensive at any time of the morning
All because I'm not convinced the aussies are our saviours, I then get accussed to following some bloke I've never heard of, on a forum I've never visited, it's beyond weird.
It's not my fault nothing he's said on this thread has come true, although I've never blamed that on him, I really think he posted what he did in good faith, saldy its looking more and more likely the Aussies found a willing idiot to get their story across, maybe they should focus a little more on getting their own house on order.
as their own website stated, they've been trying to raise funds for 16 months, that is a long, long time.
Anyway I'm not getting involved with him anymore, I really think the bloke is wired up wrong he loses his shit as soon as anyone doesn't fall in line with what he's saying. Everyone is being fed spin and lies, apart from him, of course, no way would his contacts say anything that wasn't 100% true. Delusional.
Can’t disagree with anything there mate
But the information that they have been searching for funding for 16months is a shocker I never knew that if they haven’t found it in that long it’s going to be a tough ask to find one or two before the season starts
Discussions about their lack of funding have happened from page 1 of this very thread, April 2017, so 14 months, my mistake.
Yet apparently believing that it might actually be true makes you a troll / stupid.
So, the consortium didn't have the required funds then, by James' own admission they don't have the funds now, when did they have the funds?
You would assume that a few weeks ago when the paperwork was sent to the EFL that the funds were in place then.
Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
I wish you all well
Grapevine49
Every now and then there is something decent to read on this marathon thread and usually it’s Grapes that comes up with the voice of reason. Beats buying the Sunday’s.
Has anything happened in the last seventeen pages (c.500 posts)? Or is it the usual rumour milling, dick swinging, mindless chuntering and pipedreaming?
No more takeover news, but well worth a read for last night's argument.
We were only a few posts away from a Prizefighter 'Charlton Life ITK' edition in Makro carpark.
A friend recently bought a house and saw fit to disassemble his shed. Annoyingly, he then discovered that he had no hot water. My friend hopes to sell parts of the old shed. He was approached by a chap who expressed an interest in the door and windows, but couldn't pay for them there and then. The chap said he'd talk to some acquaintances and get back to my friend, who hopes they can speak in the week and agree things by next Saturday.
Taking down the shed was hard work. My friend gave up on a shower and popped out. He eats well, but fancied some chips. (Just a small portion).
p.s. Does anyone know how I might contact someone who is knowledgeable about equine health, especially in the region of Bavaria? I was advised of an Anthony Carphones. I looked online, but no luck. As is the way with such things, I saw reference to someone with a different name. Anthony Carp-Hones. (Odd name). Further investigation confirmed that Carp-Hones is not the person I seek. (He works in catering).
Has anything happened in the last seventeen pages (c.500 posts)? Or is it the usual rumour milling, dick swinging, mindless chuntering and pipedreaming?
Keep coming back to this thread , always enjoy the ITV comments . Just hope the takeover happens soon so we can prepare for the new season . Just FUCK off Roland FFS.
I spoke with Gerard Murphy around about this time last year. He contacted me after I emailed henslow and just showed some interest At no point did I state I was a Charlton fan and at no point did he state that Charlton were the club they were looking at. I think he thought I was going to or interested in investing, so I sort of played along to a point.
Much of the stuff he told me was pie in the sky sort of stuff to my mind but I won't go into that. He did state that there were differing levels of investment opportunities and I think the lower level was around £3-5 mill. So you can see how there might be many comings and goings as things drag on. I'm not sure how far they've gone in making the investment opportunity visible to those Charlton supporters with that kind of Capital? I'm sure there are a few around that might be interested. The silence around this whole deal suggests they haven't. But who better to own a chunk of this great club than one of our own. Or are they trying to keep this Aussie inclusive? Saying that, I didn't put on my terrible Australian accent so maybe not. Who knows,but they need to pull their bloody finger out.
This is quite a shock to think that there could be that many people involved then it is more in line with a crowd funding like @i_b_b_o_r_g has said
What if those numbers from @carly burn has mentioned reduced because they couldn’t raise the capital and the options started lower than £3 mil it would be a very messy way to run a football club
My impression on this consortium was it would be no more than 5 very wealthy individuals with one owning 51% or more and then the rest taking the remainder
All of this should be made public to us the fans before we just accept anyone owning the club in this way
Especially if those who are creating the consortium are able to be be contacted and openly discuss their interests after an email and call
Surely all interested parties would have to show proof of funds or allow a credit Check before Any further coms would happen
So either @carly burn has done really well for themselves in life (congratulations and no disrespect Intended) or we have a real risk of being bought out by a bunch of wannabes all over again
Ffs typical fucking Charlton
A lot of speculation there. I thought you only dealt in FACTS
Bottom line is, we don't know how many people are involved and if the minimum investment was 3-5 million then we are looking at a maximum of 10-11 investors, which is nothing like crowdfunding which has much higher numbers of investors, so it's probably unhelpful to over-exaggerate like that.
Let's just wait and see what happens. In any event, whatever it turns out to be, it's going to have to be REALLY bad to be worse than what we have right now.
I agree that we would need to scrape low to find worse but we do surely deserve better also after all this time
It sounds like @carly burn is holder of many facts 8) from that initial contact
Indeed. Though it does beg the question, why is he only sharing it now? He said he had this conversation about a year ago
I have mentioned it in the past, but don't choose to bang on about it like some on here, especially lately. Anyway, I wanted to see how things panned out with the Aussies. As after speaking to GM didn't really think they had a cat in hell's chance of getting it over the line. I actually thought they were a ruse for a more serious bid ,but that doesn't look likely now.
A friend recently bought a house and saw fit to disassemble his shed. Annoyingly, he then discovered that he had no hot water. My friend hopes to sell parts of the old shed. He was approached by a chap who expressed an interest in the door and windows, but couldn't pay for them there and then. The chap said he'd talk to some acquaintances and get back to my friend, who hopes they can speak in the week and agree things by next Saturday.
Taking down the shed was hard work. My friend gave up on a shower and popped out. He eats well, but fancied some chips. (Just a small portion).
p.s. Does anyone know how I might contact someone who is knowledgeable about equine health, especially in the region of Bavaria? I was advised of an Anthony Carphones. I looked online, but no luck. As is the way with such things, I saw reference to someone with a different name. Anthony Carp-Hones. (Odd name). Further investigation confirmed that Carp-Hones is not the person I seek. (He works in catering).
Keep coming back to this thread , always enjoy the ITV comments . Just hope the takeover happens soon so we can prepare for the new season . Just FUCK off Roland FFS.
AFKA, what happened to your brief summary thread, I would rather read that than plough through pages of squabbles about who said what and who insulted who. I know Henry wants to get to 1000 pages, but it is becoming boring. Sorry, for those who are enjoying it, but I just want to know what, if anything, is happening. Please do not add another 15 pages insulting me, just to please Henry
AFKA, what happened to your brief summary thread, I would rather read that than plough through pages of squabbles about who said what and who insulted who. I know Henry wants to get to 1000 pages, but it is becoming boring. Sorry, for those who are enjoying it, but I just want to know what, if anything, is happening. Please do not add another 15 pages insulting me, just to please Henry
Here here, far more digestible for ones who don't care about point scoring, fish puns, pot noodles and post counts
AFKA, what happened to your brief summary thread, I would rather read that than plough through pages of squabbles about who said what and who insulted who. I know Henry wants to get to 1000 pages, but it is becoming boring. Sorry, for those who are enjoying it, but I just want to know what, if anything, is happening. Please do not add another 15 pages insulting me, just to please Henry
I did write a summary but @AFKABartram didn't use it.
Anyway, will all be over next week so no need now.
Seldom can there have been 30 pages of "debate" dedicated to the bleeding obvious.
That it descended into the level of personal abuse it did is beyond extraordinary and counterproductive in every sense of the word. I genuinely believed this site was better than such futile personal exchanges.
The end result is what exactly?
People need to remember this site is for the many who have little opportunity to get to the The Valley, an important link to an organisation they hold in high esteem. I can but argue such members and this site have been poorly served.
The nature of the continued attacks on the Australians is extraordinary.
Only after 25 pages of assertive chanting akin to a child bouncing on their bed acclaiming "I don't want to go to school" do we secure the acknowledgement the individuals involved do actually have the personal resources to buy the club.
In one case the capability extends to sufficient individual resources to buy the club, fund its infrastructure and its operations for 5yrs 3 or 4 times over From the day such individual chose to participate the consortium had access to the resources to complete the deal
The assertion they did not is palpably incorrect.
At what point is it going to register any potential new investor or investors are going to need to be the biggest investors in the clubs history simply to step through the door before any infrastructure improvements and ongoing operational funding.
All against the clubs worst ever financial standing and a playing status comparative to its lowest position in living memory.
Are you guys nuts?
Please provide me with a compelling answer why anybody would be willing to step into this space. That someone is and has committed to the process in terms of agreeing a "benchmark price" subject to due diligence is a significant step forward.
It is a step other interested parties have had ample opportunity to take but have chosen not to.
Indeed there are any number of assertions submissions have been made to the EFL. The very submission indicates at that point funding was in place.
I am tired of repeating it is not a question of acquiring the club it is a question of acquiring the club funding its infrastructure and its operations for period to deliver a successful outcome.
We above everybody else should recognise from three prior administrations who palpably got their sums wrong the consequences of short term leaps into the dark.
I suggest people reread the clubs recent press release regarding the current acquisition and long term investment.
Such is the scale of finance required how Mr Muir and his associates wish to structure their bid for the club is entirely a matter for them. I could probably fill this and two further posts on the financial tools Muir may wish to use to bring together a full financial package to defer and spread the risk.
I guarantee you would not wish to read it.
What I find most troubling is not the "tender panel" approach to funding, nor the possible creation of leases with regard to the The Valley or Training Ground. Neither are ideal but such is the scale of "project" finance required each element is an acceptable mechanism for deferring risk and reducing up front costs.
Yet the accompanying negative assertion about the financial acumen of the Australians, the nature of their acquisition and their planned modus operandi is disconcerting
As I asked earlier who does such dialogue actually serve? Such has been the vehemence of the challenge to this particular acquisition I can but ask;
- who are the other parties supposedly interested in the club who have sat on their hands? - how many other parties are involved and what are the values such offers put on the club? - whether such interested parties or their offers favour other individuals linked to the process?
It is speculated; - some have stipulated their walk away position...and walked away. - others have stipulated their final offer and left it on the table.
You can determine/ speculate who those other parties and individuals maybe for yourself.
What I can say after 40yrs in and around corporate politics I can recognise a concerted campaign of information/ disinformation when I see it.
The negative dialogue has continued with an exceptional level of assertions almost designed to draw on people's emotions and rattle people's cages to the point it is very difficult to avoid the conclusion someone somewhere has an agenda.
I can but determine the source of the information challenging the current acquisition as far from being from "an honest broker" no matter how well meaning its conduit to this site. It speaks to a vested interest.
Who and quite why that is can only be a matter of pure speculation. It is a speculation from which I could take this thread to its 1000 page goal on my own. I will save you that.
In reality it is irrelevant. What is not is that this club as an identifiable professional football organisation for many of us is dying. It is so desperately in need of a new direction and a new impetus.
On such a basis the perversity of the attacks on the Australians and the individual who chose to share and defend their interest is and was beyond bizarre. It was perverse to the point of insanity.
I am increasingly of the opinion I need to find better things to do.
I wish you all well
Grapevine49
Thank you @Grapevine49 I shall not share more info here, but will pm.
JamesSeed, I know you have your critics and understand you are only putting what you have been told. Please carry on telling us what you have been told, if others disagree (whatever wording they use), let them, no-one other than the main parties know the truth, so minnows like me are interested in what you and others (yes I mean you NLA), hear.
JamesSeed, I know you have your critics and understand you are only putting what you have been told. Please carry on telling us what you have been told, if others disagree (whatever wording they use), let them, no-one other than the main parties know the truth, so minnows like me are interested in what you and others (yes I mean you NLA), hear.
Comments
One point that you extrapolate needs to be reiterated: It's not just about buying the club, it's about funding it for the near to medium term future. And that requires both a significant amount of money coming in and over a sustained period of time.
Also, as I've speculated at various points, I expect the losses the club run under will get worse before they get better. We all know in football you must speculate to accumulate, so enhancing the squad, plus the addition of wages, plus the additions to the skeletal staff left by RD, let alone rebuilding the training ground, would all increase operating losses. And given the less than massive difference in money coming in between League One and the Championship, (keeping in mind bringing players in in the Championship would be more expensive, and wages would go up), even if we get promoted at the first time of asking you would expect those losses to continue for quite some time.
This is a huge expense, to say the least. Hopefully the delay is due to financial foresight by the Australian group, which I think is a reasonable assumption. Hopefully what is currently going on is putting together (again, it sounds like) a group where risk is spread out, and hopefully there is financial redundancy. And if that's the case, well done to them, it's the smart thing to do. If not, hopefully the EFL catches any flaws in their plans. It's a big leap of faith to rely on the EFL, but it's probably better than relying on Roland.
Beats buying the Sunday’s.
We were only a few posts away from a Prizefighter 'Charlton Life ITK' edition in Makro carpark.
I’m not in the know here but I’m guessing a Makros car park match up could be a bit one sided.
7 out of 10.
But it's
Just sell the club and FUCK OFF
Come on everyone, or about 3 from Grapevine should do the trick !
Anyway, will all be over next week so no need now.
I shall not share more info here, but will pm.