For Bowyer to have discussions and know plans moving forward is a positive. For it all to be on the table is a positive. For it to be kept behind closed doors, especially at this stage of the season, is a positive. Even if that frustrates people.
The wording of strange things has been taken out of context. He admitted it wasn’t the correct way of saying it. To me, it just means that Southall wants to try something different to move the club forward. Something obviously needs to change and rather than what we have been like over the last 6 years, maybe they don’t want to be just like any other club. He wants to try other ideas that would be beneficial to the club in other ways.
That doesn’t mean it’s negative or we are going to experience what we have under Roland. I think it means he wants to be clever with the running of the club. What that is, only they know and that includes Bowyer and Gallen. It also seems to me that the EFL are only capable of dealing with one thing at a time. That means the process is going to take longer than we like. But it was only last week that it was reported all parties were happy with the timeframe of the process.
For me, so long as the takeover is official and confirmed by the new year, that’s fine. It will allow us to kick on and start fresh in 2020.
One thing I do know is that this is categorically not why the takeover has yet to be approved.
So what do you know Airman?
That the EFL reject that line out of hand.
So have you any insight on what might be delaying it, or is just the process?
Obviously I have done a lot of digging in the last fortnight, but I think we need to let the EFL to their job. We complain enough when they don't and they are the only people who can. They are very keen to see the back of Duchatelet, so they are not going to interfere without justification.
this is all bollox aint it - efl just had to tick a few boxes and we were set fair as the richest club in the world with fans and current reverred gaffer to be central in our meteoric rise - now there appears to be problems as to where the money is coming from - bloody typical - we sure used up a lot of good luck at the end of last season didnt we?
For Bowyer to have discussions and know plans moving forward is a positive. For it all to be on the table is a positive. For it to be kept behind closed doors, especially at this stage of the season, is a positive. Even if that frustrates people.
The wording of strange things has been taken out of context. He admitted it wasn’t the correct way of saying it. To me, it just means that Southall wants to try something different to move the club forward. Something obviously needs to change and rather than what we have been like over the last 6 years, maybe they don’t want to be just like any other club. He wants to try other ideas that would be beneficial to the club in other ways.
That doesn’t mean it’s negative or we are going to experience what we have under Roland. I think it means he wants to be clever with the running of the club. What that is, only they know and that includes Bowyer and Gallen. It also seems to me that the EFL are only capable of dealing with one thing at a time. That means the process is going to take longer than we like. But it was only last week that it was reported all parties were happy with the timeframe of the process.
For me, so long as the takeover is official and confirmed by the new year, that’s fine. It will allow us to kick on and start fresh in 2020.
One thing I do know is that this is categorically not why the takeover has yet to be approved.
So what do you know Airman?
That the EFL reject that line out of hand.
So have you any insight on what might be delaying it, or is just the process?
Obviously I have done a lot of digging in the last fortnight, but I think we need to let the EFL to their job. We complain enough when they don't and they are the only people who can. They are very keen to see the back of Duchatelet, so they are not going to interfere without justification.
Maybe the strange is about doing a Brentford below first team level (which for us would be a massive mistake). Maybe the strange is a restructure of the player bonus system. We don't know beyond gossip and speculation, which are things I am personally cool about.
Charlton boss Lee Bowyer said he had a “positive” discussion with potential new chairman Matt Southall on Thursday – and also clarified a comment he gave to Sky Sports before Friday’s 2-2 draw with Hull City.
East Street Investments have agreed to purchase the club from current owner Roland Duchatelet and are currently going through the EFL’s Owners’ and Directors’ test before the deal is ratified.
Bowyer sat down with Southall, who is set to become the new CEO at The Valley, to discuss the direction the club will go in.
The Addicks boss had mentioned to Sky Sports that the discussion included some “good things and some strange things” – but assured supporters that there was nothing to worry about in those comments.
Lee Bowyer on the touchline. Charlton Athletic v Hull City SkyBet Championship, The Valley, 13 December 2019
“I said ‘some strange things’ but obviously, Matt, if this happens, will have different ideas to what I’m used to,” explained Bowyer.
“That’s what I meant by strange. It doesn’t mean that it’s this crazy stuff. It’s just different to what I’ve heard in the past. It doesn’t make it too strange. Maybe I used the wrong word there. People can blow things out of proportion, trust me.
“It was nothing too crazy, it was just different to what I’ve heard in the past.
“There were some positive discussions. If it happens, then there’s going to be some good ideas coming from Matt. We’ll see if it all happens and goes through.
“We just had a discussion regarding what Matt’s plans are going forward with the club. We had discussions regarding players, contracts. It was positive. We both know where we stand. He knows what I want for me and my team. He made it clear what he wants to do moving forward. He had some good ideas.”
I don’t care how much people try and put a positive spin on things, this is a playing down impact expansion with Bowyer with a hugely concerning core.
Be honest, read those quotes again, replacing Bowyer with Powell and Southall with Roland / Miere and that could have been exact quotes from 6 years ago.
Starting to agree, but maybe we're being a bit on edge because of RD and KM in the past?
I'm generally an optimist but we are in injury time in this takeover, this is Charlton and we're understandably all getting nervous.
We can think of countless reasons why 'strange' will not be positive, at best merely innocuous. Dreisen Mk 2, dodgy player ownership models, ground sponsorship, a director of football, heavily incentivised contracts linked to promotion, survival or even attendance figures, opaque ownership structures and sofas. The list is endless.
Countless times we seem to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory ....
... but then again, occasionally we get a Mendonca hat-trick, a Sasa save, a Jon Fortune header, a Prattley goal in extra time and a Bauer popping up at the far post.
Fingers crossed it's one of our rarer great days and let's not have a go at each other in the mean time.
Question: to what extent do the potential owners intend to finance the club or the sale by borrowing against the fixed assets, i.e The Valley/Sparrows Lane?
Is this a random question? Sounds more like you may know a little more. Can you elaborate?
But as others have said if this deal is against borrowing money then no lender is basing that on the unenforceable and of limited value of the property. Only personal guarantees backed by other assets would give comfort to a lender.
Generally the rule but not necessarily a guarantee backed by other assets it depends on the integrity wealth and standing of the Guarantor, like a mega rich sheikh for example 😉.
And it's not as though Bowyer is Shakespeare, his language is pretty basic.
Fair is foul, and foul is fair: Hover through the fog and filthy air. Does the new owner believe I'm a popinjay ? Out, out brief candle of hope. Life is just a walking shadow, where a poor player struts and frets his 90 minutes upon the field and then is heard no more: strange words were said late at night, which I shall say were different and I will not let another word pass my lips until the morrow.
I'm surprised you didn't include this bit from earlier in the speech you adapted:
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time"
which is a fair description of how this takeover thread is going.
Something doesn't feel quite right but I don't think the time the EFL are taking is unreasonable. The potential directors were only interviewed mid week. Based on that interview and the time it would take to check their claims I think we're still within the reasonable limits. But with Christmas on the doorstep the whole process could take even longer.
The pessimist* in me thinks the new owners knew this. Announced to the world their intentions and hoped the EFL would rush it through to rid us of Duchatelet ASAP and by doing so miss a caveat in how they are set up?
*For clarity the same voice said to me we'd lose 6 or 7 -0 in the playoff final!
And we expect a Manager to manage successfully in such an unstable environment?
I respect the frustration but heaven knows what some of you
are like in any personal negotiations. I was hopeful after TLs comments people
would starting breathing normally again.
Rumour(s) aside if the deal is right and the buyers are right it will happen. If not
we move on. If the deal hangs on a misplaced word then it will not run its course. Naturally any negative outcome will be difficult for everyone
but sweating over it will make not a jot of difference.
The information we do have, beyond the uncertain world of the Google search, is one formal statement and indications the EFL held interviews with the relevant parties 72 to 48 hrs ago. We have no knowledge of any of the matters arising nor indeed whether such matters involve issues of substance or a box ticking exercise.
Lee Bowyer has indicated the support he wants/ needs to deliver progress for the club. Mr Southall has outlined what he is able to do within the confines of his authority and has certain ideas as to how he proposes to deliver such support. Some of the ideas are "strange" or unusual or new to the manager. You will have to use your own imagination as to what they might be.
EFL officials do have their challenges. Their resources and priorities are governed by its membership. In serving its membership the rules governing approval of any new owners largely follow three of the slightly tongue in cheek but perfectly valid questions raised by Henry. As of today;
Who owns the club?
Subject to EFL approval East Street Investments (ESI) - His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer is the majority shareholder in ESI through his Abu Dhabi based corporation Panama Magic General Contracting LLC and is thus deemed the beneficial owner
What is the business plan?
Nobody secures EFL approval without a financially validated business plan but operationally any investor will need to confirm assumptions in the plan to the reality of owning the club. Such evaluation with Mr Southall apparently in situ appears to be being undertaken in parallel with EFL approval.
How will that plan be funded?
Very good question - the EFL will require evidence of the funds to acquire the club including any deferred or contingent liabilities and then fund 2 years operational trading i.e. fulfil fixtures. For the rest of us? Mind your own business.
The questions re the training ground & academy, The Valley and the exit plan are beyond the immediate remit of the EFL and are for another time. If it helps I do not see either the Valley or Sparrows Lane at risk. For reasons discussed on countless occasions the investment returns involved would be extremely difficult to achieve and are quite simply not there for the foreseeable future.
I regret for those of a nervous disposition we face the situation we for valid reasons may never know the precise nature of the proposed new funding. Indeed I would argue such is the nature of the industry today the EFL regulators though striving to do their best are probably now no longer fit for purpose.
The EFL was never designed to be the Auditor in Chief of or micro manage every member club. It fell into the role in trying to preserve the integrity of its competition. With the breadth of the geographic, financial & cultural divergence in the industry it is on a hiding to nothing. The diversity of wealth of the individual owners, the PL parachute payments and the creative accounting expertise of some present a difficult "circle to square".
Create a multi billion pound industry and multi million pound investment & global investor practices and expectations come with it.
In truth nobody should recognise the landscape better than us. We have the T shirts.
Consider our history with the Glikstens, Hulyer and the Sunley Group.
Fast forward and we have waited 2yrs for an Australian Group and/ or others to put consortia together to acquire the club and keep it competitive. Some laughably derided such efforts because those involved could not or would not stump up £70mn! to buy and fund the club.Consortia? We have been there. How many investors arrived under the several executive iterations introduced by Mr Murray? Today we still have outstanding ex directors loans made nearly a decade ago.
Want a mega rich owner? Enter M.D. I had no problem with M. Duchatelet or his wealth. I had every problem with the way he structured the clubs funding and the values he displayed in his commitment to the industry, the club and its stakeholders.
How about Smoke & Mirrors? Under Messrs Slater & Jiminez the funding was reputed to be via Mr Cash but in reality the finance allegedly came via BVI family trusts.
This is the reality of the marketplace in which the club has operated for over a decade.
It is not going to change. Even Man City recently sold a 10% stake in the business to bring in over £300mn for further investment. Spurs spent what £1bn on a new stadium?
It is time to stop holding our noses and wake up and smell the coffee. Can we stop maligning potential investors before they even come through the door. Look across the Premier League 75% of clubs have a controlling interest reliant on major corporate or significant overseas investment.
Look at the debt assumed by Slater, Jiminez and Cash in late 2010, then look at the debt assumed by M. Duchatelet in 2014 and now look at the debt to be dealt with today. It ceased to be a corner shop environment a very long time ago.
So while we thirst for clarity we have to recognise such is the level of finance required to function in the industry today few individuals even with the personal resources will step into this space as a "sole" trader. Indeed as we have seen even those who do come with their own baggage whether it be the Mr 2% approach of a M. Duchatelet or the allegedly creative accountancy of a Mr Chansiri. Each challenges the EFL regulatory process.
Individual wealth is important but will not determine our future. Integrity, value set and the level of funds committed to the club will.
HE Tahnoon Nimer has operated as the Chairman of the Private Office of Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhan for 13yrs. His CV exhibits stability and expertise across multiple disciplines and industries involving global relationships. It is not only a profile which deserves respect but one which indicates an experience in understanding the variables involved with different national markets.
However such are the levels of finance now required investors and "investment houses" rarely operate in isolation. They interact with any number of investors and other investment houses in providing facilities to businesses/ governments across the world. Depending on a clients needs, an investment house can act as a facilitator, sole or lead investor or as one of a panel of investors.
I am long retired but working in Bank Treasury 30yrs ago Tender Panel Finance for major corporations was a featured service. So say a corporation wanted to borrow £80mn it agreed a facility with a Lead Bank who would secure such finance by creating a panel of banks prepared to lend to the corporation. When the funding was needed the Lead bank would put out Tenders to each panel member to see how much and at what rate each would lend. The Banks would tender for the business.
It is a fundamental issue of spreading and managing the associated risk/ reward.
Consortium investment operates on the same principles.
As of now nobody comes with any guarantees but His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer and Mr Heller in effect oversee and manage Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhans ABDB "investment house" involving 60 companies.
As of now we have no knowledge of; - the nature of the deal - any possible indemnities - the scale of finance involved - the personal wealth of HE Tahnoon Nimer - his personal investments beyond those stated by Mr Southall (this is seen to be his first venture into football) - any potential investment partner he may or may not bring to the table - the relationship between the investors and Mr Southall.
However to this point all named parties have chosen to take reputational risk by putting their names into the public domain.
There is an excellent post elsewhere from Red Pete covering the local investment market culture.
I would argue in view of his position and skills HE Tahnoon Nimer is ideally placed to manage any investment needs though such a position should not be seen as a precursor for any reckless spending. Ultimately he is not obliged to divulge any relevant information to us. Indeed confidentiality may well preclude such disclosure.
As to who steps into such a space in todays global investment markets there will always be capital looking for the right yields but be under no illusion investors expect a return.
If this takeover does progress as stakeholders our focus can only be on the actions taken and decisions made in serving the club. For me it comes with the territory of Corporate Governance.
As the enquiries in Sheffield indicate any and every Corporate Officer has specific responsibilities and a duty of care to the Company they serve. In the EFL such responsibilities are further defined by the industries rules and regulations.
At this stage I can but wish the new parties every success in their endeavours. I am grateful for their planned participation and am not uncomfortable with such involvement but I must repeat there can be no guarantees.
The reality is we have endured 6yrs of turmoil and 2yrs of trying to escape its consequences. Our ability to trade meaningfully in this market has depended on the reputations of those leading the clubhouse. The management & staff of the club have for the past 18 months delivered progress way beyond their resources rebuilding the relationship between the club and its fan base.
Such progress is at risk. It would be prudent for any new investor to stabilise the business.
Beyond that there is a new business to be built here. It was the requirement in January 2014. We appear to have travelled full circle seemingly nearly trebling the club debt on the journey. Such debt has limited our options for the future but we must move forward.
If new investors offer this opportunity can we please give any potential new incumbent the time and space to get the foundations right to enable the business to move forward on a planned and sustainable basis.
For now the EFL "certification" process is fundamental to the process.It has to be right. We need it to be right.If a few more days or even weeks is the price of industry due diligence then so be it.Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
My take on this is that as a club that has possibly put more pressure on The EFL over the last couple of years to put their house in order and to be more stringent in their previously seemingly slap dash acceptance of prospective buyers of all EFL clubs.....we can hardly complain that they are now being seen to do just what we (and others) were suggesting. We can’t have it both ways I guess.
You are DEFINITELY on my Xmas card list, @Grapevine49 !
PLEASE keep these insightful posts coming through what is an extremely nerve wracking, anxious time for all Addicks.
As one whose heart over rules my head 99% of the time, and who has zero knowledge of anything remotely connected to football finances/ownership, you have my total respect for keeping those of a nervous disposition on the straight & narrow.
I continue to take my happy pills in an effort to maintain my equilibrium whilst hoping upon hope that another of your epic posts will arrive to aid my mental health.
And we expect a Manager to manage successfully in such an unstable environment?
I respect the frustration but heaven knows what some of you
are like in any personal negotiations. I was hopeful after TLs comments people
would starting breathing normally again.
Rumour(s) aside if the deal is right and the buyers are right it will happen. If not
we move on. If the deal hangs on a misplaced word then it will not run its course. Naturally any negative outcome will be difficult for everyone
but sweating over it will make not a jot of difference.
The information we do have, beyond the uncertain world of the Google search, is one formal statement and indications the EFL held interviews with the relevant parties 72 to 48 hrs ago. We have no knowledge of any of the matters arising nor indeed whether such matters involve issues of substance or a box ticking exercise.
Lee Bowyer has indicated the support he wants/ needs to deliver progress for the club. Mr Southall has outlined what he is able to do within the confines of his authority and has certain ideas as to how he proposes to deliver such support. Some of the ideas are "strange" or unusual or new to the manager. You will have to use your own imagination as to what they might be.
EFL officials do have their challenges. Their resources and priorities are governed by its membership. In serving its membership the rules governing approval of any new owners largely follow three of the slightly tongue in cheek but perfectly valid questions raised by Henry. As of today;
Who owns the club?
Subject to EFL approval East Street Investments (ESI) - His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer is the majority shareholder in ESI through his Abu Dhabi based corporation Panama Magic General Contracting LLC and is thus deemed the beneficial owner
What is the business plan?
Nobody secures EFL approval without a financially validated business plan but operationally any investor will need to confirm assumptions in the plan to the reality of owning the club. Such evaluation with Mr Southall apparently in situ appears to be being undertaken in parallel with EFL approval.
How will that plan be funded?
Very good question - the EFL will require evidence of the funds to acquire the club including any deferred or contingent liabilities and then fund 2 years operational trading i.e. fulfil fixtures. For the rest of us? Mind your own business.
The questions re the training ground & academy, The Valley and the exit plan are beyond the immediate remit of the EFL and are for another time. If it helps I do not see either the Valley or Sparrows Lane at risk. For reasons discussed on countless occasions the investment returns involved would be extremely difficult to achieve and are quite simply not there for the foreseeable future.
I regret for those of a nervous disposition we face the situation we for valid reasons may never know the precise nature of the proposed new funding. Indeed I would argue such is the nature of the industry today the EFL regulators though striving to do their best are probably now no longer fit for purpose.
The EFL was never designed to be the Auditor in Chief of or micro manage every member club. It fell into the role in trying to preserve the integrity of its competition. With the breadth of the geographic, financial & cultural divergence in the industry it is on a hiding to nothing. The diversity of wealth of the individual owners, the PL parachute payments and the creative accounting expertise of some present a difficult "circle to square".
Create a multi billion pound industry and multi million pound investment & global investor practices and expectations come with it.
In truth nobody should recognise the landscape better than us. We have the T shirts.
Consider our history with the Glikstens, Hulyer and the Sunley Group.
Fast forward and we have waited 2yrs for an Australian Group and/ or others to put consortia together to acquire the club and keep it competitive. Some laughably derided such efforts because those involved could not or would not stump up £70mn! to buy and fund the club.
Consortia? We have been there. How many investors arrived under the several executive iterations introduced by Mr Murray? Today we still have outstanding ex directors loans made nearly a decade ago.
Want a mega rich owner? Enter M.D. I had no problem with M. Duchatelet or his wealth. I had every problem with the way he structured the clubs funding and the values he displayed in his commitment to the industry, the club and its stakeholders.
How about Smoke & Mirrors? Under Messrs Slater & Jiminez the funding was reputed to be via Mr Cash but in reality the finance allegedly came via BVI family trusts.
This is the reality of the marketplace in which the club has operated for over a decade.
It is not going to change. Even Man City recently sold a 10% stake in the business to bring in over £300mn for further investment. Spurs spent what £1bn on a new stadium?
It is time to stop holding our noses and wake up and smell the coffee. Can we stop maligning potential investors before they even come through the door. Look across the Premier League 75% of clubs have a controlling interest reliant on major corporate or significant overseas investment.
Look at the debt assumed by Slater, Jiminez and Cash in late 2010, then look at the debt assumed by M. Duchatelet in 2014 and now look at the debt to be dealt with today. It ceased to be a corner shop environment a very long time ago.
So while we thirst for clarity we have to recognise such is the level of finance required to function in the industry today few individuals even with the personal resources will step into this space as a "sole" trader. Indeed as we have seen even those who do come with their own baggage whether it be the Mr 2% approach of a M. Duchatelet or the allegedly creative accountancy of a Mr Chansiri. Each challenges the EFL regulatory process.
Individual wealth is important but will not determine our future. Integrity, value set and the level of funds committed to the club will.
HE Tahnoon Nimer has operated as the Chairman of the Private Office of Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhan for 13yrs. His CV exhibits stability and expertise across multiple disciplines and industries involving global relationships. It is not only a profile which deserves respect but one which indicates an experience in understanding the variables involved with different national markets.
However such are the levels of finance now required investors and "investment houses" rarely operate in isolation. They interact with any number of investors and other investment houses in providing facilities to businesses/ governments across the world. Depending on a clients needs, an investment house can act as a facilitator, sole or lead investor or as one of a panel of investors.
I am long retired but working in Bank Treasury 30yrs ago Tender Panel Finance for major corporations was a featured service. So say a corporation wanted to borrow £80mn it agreed a facility with a Lead Bank who would secure such finance by creating a panel of banks prepared to lend to the corporation. When the funding was needed the Lead bank would put out Tenders to each panel member to see how much and at what rate each would lend. The Banks would tender for the business.
It is a fundamental issue of spreading and managing the associated risk/ reward.
Consortium investment operates on the same principles.
As of now nobody comes with any guarantees but His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer and Mr Heller in effect oversee and manage Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhans ABDB "investment house" involving 60 companies.
As of now we have no knowledge of; - the nature of the deal - any possible indemnities - the scale of finance involved - the personal wealth of HE Tahnoon Nimer - his personal investments beyond those stated by Mr Southall (this is seen to be his first venture into football) - any potential investment partner he may or may not bring to the table - the relationship between the investors and Mr Southall.
However to this point all named parties have chosen to take reputational risk by putting their names into the public domain.
There is an excellent post elsewhere from Red Pete covering the local investment market culture.
I would argue in view of his position and skills HE Tahnoon Nimer is ideally placed to manage any investment needs though such a position should not be seen as a precursor for any reckless spending. Ultimately he is not obliged to divulge any relevant information to us. Indeed confidentiality may well preclude such disclosure.
As to who steps into such a space in todays global investment markets there will always be capital looking for the right yields but be under no illusion investors expect a return.
If this takeover does progress as stakeholders our focus can only be on the actions taken and decisions made in serving the club. For me it comes with the territory of Corporate Governance.
As the enquiries in Sheffield indicate any and every Corporate Officer has specific responsibilities and a duty of care to the Company they serve. In the EFL such responsibilities are further defined by the industries rules and regulations.
At this stage I can but wish the new parties every success in their endeavours. I am grateful for their planned participation and am not uncomfortable with such involvement but I must repeat there can be no guarantees.
The reality is we have endured 6yrs of turmoil and 2yrs of trying to escape its consequences. Our ability to trade meaningfully in this market has depended on the reputations of those leading the clubhouse. The management & staff of the club have for the past 18 months delivered progress way beyond their resources rebuilding the relationship between the club and its fan base.
Such progress is at risk. It would be prudent for any new investor to stabilise the business.
Beyond that there is a new business to be built here. It was the requirement in January 2014. We appear to have travelled full circle seemingly nearly trebling the club debt on the journey. Such debt has limited our options for the future but we must move forward.
If new investors offer this opportunity can we please give any potential new incumbent the time and space to get the foundations right to enable the business to move forward on a planned and sustainable basis.
For now the EFL "certification" process is fundamental to the process.
It has to be right. We need it to be right.
If a few more days or even weeks is the price of industry due diligence then so be it.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend.
.
Was after some decent reading material for when I did my early afternoon clear out to be rid of last nights kebab and beers. You came to my rescue Mr Grapevine. Nothing like reading one of your posts whilst sitting on the throne. Excellent read as ever.
Do we think Grapevine goes to his study to pen these eloquent posts or just taps away on his phone while he's waiting for his steak slice to be warmed up in Gregg's?
He only posted it 14 minutes ago, can't believe 9 people have read and liked it already!
Gonna sit down by the fire tonight and have a read meself
I have a special arrangement with @Grapevine49 where his posts are injected directly into my bloodstream for a quicker hit. It is too much of a dream to imagine @Grapevine49 in charge, but stranger things have happened.
Do we think Grapevine goes to his study to pen these eloquent posts or just taps away on his phone while he's waiting for his steak slice to be warmed up in Gregg's?
Grapevine is old school who will be dictating to his secretary who in turn is typing at nineteen to the dozen on her laptop 😉.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
I thoroughly enjoy your posts @seth plum I do not understand why you get flak at times.
I wonder if all this is being blown out of proportion.
Look back at the original announcement on the club website and all the positive statements that was in it (as well as the thought in naming the business East Street), we all agreed that their intentions were to make this club great again.
We have a potential chairman who has been to more games than the current owner has in 5 years, even travelling to Middlesborough with ex Director David Smith who was very complementary towards him. He has mingled with the fans in the bar, so not sure what else he can do right now as they have stated that they will not be making any further statement until the takeover is completed.
Like everyone I'm as frustrated at how long this is taking, I'm sure that if we had got the right results in the last couple of games then we wouldn't be half as frustrated.
Let's hope that this gets over the line as quickly as possible and enjoy what the future holds.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Seth......you’re an old and trusted poster on here but you were/are wrong to have made your initial post.....I’ll tell you why. Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. You could also be being set up by someone who knows you use the message boards and social media......I don’t know. What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ? So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it. All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work. Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.
Being the gentleman that you are, how to slam a post politely.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
I thoroughly enjoy your posts @seth plum I do not understand why you get flak at times.
Thank you. I am sorry that for one reason or another I have not written post match thoughts for a while which i regret, and I intend to resume. Those are the posts I like writing the most.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Seth......you’re an old and trusted poster on here but you were/are wrong to have made your initial post.....I’ll tell you why. Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ? So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it. All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work. Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.
I am sorry. If saying I personally feel less confident put the shits up you all that is your problem not mine. Idle gossip has existed on Charlton Life continually, indeed often welcomed. If on the other hand you wish me to keep my mouth shut, then I will if you will.
I told you I have......and on quite a few occasions over the years.
I suggest you two fellas go for drink next time Mr £ is at the The Valley.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Seth......you’re an old and trusted poster on here but you were/are wrong to have made your initial post.....I’ll tell you why. Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ? So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it. All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work. Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.
I am sorry. If saying I personally feel less confident put the shits up you all that is your problem not mine. Idle gossip has existed on Charlton Life continually, indeed often welcomed. If on the other hand you wish me to keep my mouth shut, then I will if you will.
I told you I have......and on quite a few occasions over the years.
I suggest you two fellas go for drink next time Mr £ is at the The Valley.
I doubt it will happen because it is difficult to drink with your mouth shut which is what Mr £ wants of me.
Comments
Maybe the strange is a restructure of the player bonus system.
We don't know beyond gossip and speculation, which are things I am personally cool about.
Starting to agree, but maybe we're being a bit on edge because of RD and KM in the past?
We can think of countless reasons why 'strange' will not be positive, at best merely innocuous. Dreisen Mk 2, dodgy player ownership models, ground sponsorship, a director of football, heavily incentivised contracts linked to promotion, survival or even attendance figures, opaque ownership structures and sofas. The list is endless.
Countless times we seem to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory ....
... but then again, occasionally we get a Mendonca hat-trick, a Sasa save, a Jon Fortune header, a Prattley goal in extra time and a Bauer popping up at the far post.
Fingers crossed it's one of our rarer great days and let's not have a go at each other in the mean time.
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time"
The pessimist* in me thinks the new owners knew this. Announced to the world their intentions and hoped the EFL would rush it through to rid us of Duchatelet ASAP and by doing so miss a caveat in how they are set up?
*For clarity the same voice said to me we'd lose 6 or 7 -0 in the playoff final!
Rumour(s) aside if the deal is right and the buyers are right it will happen. If not we move on. If the deal hangs on a misplaced word then it will not run its course. Naturally any negative outcome will be difficult for everyone but sweating over it will make not a jot of difference.
The information we do have, beyond the uncertain world of the Google search, is one formal statement and indications the EFL held interviews with the relevant parties 72 to 48 hrs ago. We have no knowledge of any of the matters arising nor indeed whether such matters involve issues of substance or a box ticking exercise.
Lee Bowyer has indicated the support he wants/ needs to deliver progress for the club. Mr Southall has outlined what he is able to do within the confines of his authority and has certain ideas as to how he proposes to deliver such support. Some of the ideas are "strange" or unusual or new to the manager. You will have to use your own imagination as to what they might be.
EFL officials do have their challenges. Their resources and priorities are governed by its membership. In serving its membership the rules governing approval of any new owners largely follow three of the slightly tongue in cheek but perfectly valid questions raised by Henry. As of today;
Who owns the club?
Want a mega rich owner? Enter M.D. I had no problem with M. Duchatelet or his wealth. I had every problem with the way he structured the clubs funding and the values he displayed in his commitment to the industry, the club and its stakeholders.
How about Smoke & Mirrors? Under Messrs Slater & Jiminez the funding was reputed to be via Mr Cash but in reality the finance allegedly came via BVI family trusts.
This is the reality of the marketplace in which the club has operated for over a decade.
It is not going to change. Even Man City recently sold a 10% stake in the business to bring in over £300mn for further investment. Spurs spent what £1bn on a new stadium?
It is time to stop holding our noses and wake up and smell the coffee. Can we stop maligning potential investors before they even come through the door. Look across the Premier League 75% of clubs have a controlling interest reliant on major corporate or significant overseas investment.
Look at the debt assumed by Slater, Jiminez and Cash in late 2010, then look at the debt assumed by M. Duchatelet in 2014 and now look at the debt to be dealt with today. It ceased to be a corner shop environment a very long time ago.
So while we thirst for clarity we have to recognise such is the level of finance required to function in the industry today few individuals even with the personal resources will step into this space as a "sole" trader. Indeed as we have seen even those who do come with their own baggage whether it be the Mr 2% approach of a M. Duchatelet or the allegedly creative accountancy of a Mr Chansiri. Each challenges the EFL regulatory process.
Individual wealth is important but will not determine our future. Integrity, value set and the level of funds committed to the club will.
However such are the levels of finance now required investors and "investment houses" rarely operate in isolation. They interact with any number of investors and other investment houses in providing facilities to businesses/ governments across the world. Depending on a clients needs, an investment house can act as a facilitator, sole or lead investor or as one of a panel of investors.
I am long retired but working in Bank Treasury 30yrs ago Tender Panel Finance for major corporations was a featured service. So say a corporation wanted to borrow £80mn it agreed a facility with a Lead Bank who would secure such finance by creating a panel of banks prepared to lend to the corporation. When the funding was needed the Lead bank would put out Tenders to each panel member to see how much and at what rate each would lend. The Banks would tender for the business.
It is a fundamental issue of spreading and managing the associated risk/ reward.
Consortium investment operates on the same principles.
As of now nobody comes with any guarantees but His Excellency Tahnoon Nimer and Mr Heller in effect oversee and manage Sheik Saeed Bin Tahnoon Al Nayhans ABDB "investment house" involving 60 companies.
As of now we have no knowledge of;
- the nature of the deal
- any possible indemnities
- the scale of finance involved
- the personal wealth of HE Tahnoon Nimer
- his personal investments beyond those stated by Mr Southall (this is seen to be his first venture into football)
- any potential investment partner he may or may not bring to the table
- the relationship between the investors and Mr Southall.
The reality is we have endured 6yrs of turmoil and 2yrs of trying to escape its consequences. Our ability to trade meaningfully in this market has depended on the reputations of those leading the clubhouse. The management & staff of the club have for the past 18 months delivered progress way beyond their resources rebuilding the relationship between the club and its fan base.
Such progress is at risk. It would be prudent for any new investor to stabilise the business.
Beyond that there is a new business to be built here. It was the requirement in January 2014. We appear to have travelled full circle seemingly nearly trebling the club debt on the journey. Such debt has limited our options for the future but we must move forward.
If new investors offer this opportunity can we please give any potential new incumbent the time and space to get the foundations right to enable the business to move forward on a planned and sustainable basis.
.
We can’t have it both ways I guess.
What a spectacular post.
Gonna sit down by the fire tonight and have a read meself
PLEASE keep these insightful posts coming through what is an extremely nerve wracking, anxious time for all Addicks.
As one whose heart over rules my head 99% of the time, and who has zero knowledge of anything remotely connected to football finances/ownership, you have my total respect for keeping those of a nervous disposition on the straight & narrow.
I continue to take my happy pills in an effort to maintain my equilibrium whilst hoping upon hope that another of your epic posts will arrive to aid my mental health.
Thank you and please keep on keeping on.
It is too much of a dream to imagine @Grapevine49 in charge, but stranger things have happened.
I am sorry that for one reason or another I have not written post match thoughts for a while which i regret, and I intend to resume. Those are the posts I like writing the most.