There is another clue to the strange things. Has Bowyer not said that he doesn't know what his budget will be? If that is correct, it feels strange if he is to be planning the January purchases as legwork for them would be being done now. You need to know what lake you are fishing in if you are doing the fishing.
If I was Sherlock Holmes I would point to the owners having their own people to decide the targets. Now if they are bringing in top players, that wont be too bad although I can see why Bowyer may not be happy. He and Gallen have done pretty well doing these things themselves.
Still, all we can do is make stabs in the dark. I'd love some clarity soon.
Perhaps veracity on the money comes from whether we could be in another Kevin Cash scenario. We have several front men including a very wealthy Nimer but there could be concerns on how they are proving the funding sources. Just a guess.
In Seth's defense I spoke to someone on Tuesday within the club, could have shared what they said (it was nothing ground breaking or worrying BTW) but decided not to as I wanted to protect them. I think sometimes people want to share what they know but at the same time not reveal too much as it protects their source.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
thanks Seth - makes sense, I guess that at this confusing juncture in the future of our club we are all in the dark and when someone, like yourself, tries to throw a chink of light into the darkness of confusion we all want a bank of floodlight turned on!.
Question: to what extent do the potential owners intend to finance the club or the sale by borrowing against the fixed assets, i.e The Valley/Sparrows Lane?
I am a nobody and not at all ITK so just my opinion but given the apparent source of the money/ownership I'd be surprised if there was that much speculative stuff here, why would a super rich individual want or need to get involved in any such deal, although for the same reasons I can understand why the funding might not be that transparent.
I am a nobody and not at all ITK so just my opinion but given the apparent source of the money/ownership I'd be surprised if there was that much speculative stuff here, why would a super rich individual want or need to get involved in any such deal, although for the same reasons I can understand why the funding might not be that transparent.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
Lee Bowyer has managed for Roland Duchatelet and played under Peter Ridsdale. A miser and a Spendthrift !
So to be outside the Parameters of the above and their polar opposite ways of running a football club makes you wonder what is the strange or different ways of a young go ahead chairman with a degree in business management ?
@Airman Brown what are the risks around that eventuality?
I’m no expert and don’t claim to be, but clearly many businesses will borrow against their assets to fund investment. In Man United’s case it was used to fund the purchase, as I understand it. The problem in Charlton’s case is that the business is unlikely to be profitable outside of the Premier League, so there are no spare revenues to service the debt, except potentially player sales, and ultimately unless promoted the club would have to attract further investment or go bust.
Should add that it is very unlikely you could borrow enough from a conventional bank against the assets to fund the publicised purchase price or a promotion challenge, but I reckon that by selling Taylor in January and borrowing against the ground (which requires repaying ex-directors first) you could buy yourself a year or two if you could avoid relegation to L1.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Question: to what extent do the potential owners intend to finance the club or the sale by borrowing against the fixed assets, i.e The Valley/Sparrows Lane?
Regardless of the answer the EFL need to surely bring in rules that stop borrowing against the type of assets you mention
After all it was partly down to their demise that Bury were able to sell of the Ground and Parking Space to fund other ventures which in their case werent for the Football club
@Airman Brown what are the risks around that eventuality?
I’m no expert and don’t claim to be, but clearly many businesses will borrow against their assets to fund investment. In Man United’s case it was used to fund the purchase, as I understand it. The problem in Charlton’s case is that the business is unlikely to be profitable outside of the Premier League, so there are no spare revenues to service the debt, except potentially player sales, and ultimately unless promoted would ultimately have to attract further investment or go bust.
Should add that it is very unlikely you could borrow enough from a conventional bank against the assets to fund the publicised purchase price.
Depends what other personal guarantees might be in place from a very wealthy individual 😉. Interest rates are low and borrowing against the property assets to complete the purchase would free up working capital.
Also any purchase would have demonstrate ongoing funds to the EFL, and we are led to believe there will be investment so this doesn't seem significant to me, although it would ask questions about the funding levels.
Is there some accounting reason it would be beneficial? Some way to avoid FFP, or hide ownership?
It would of course remove some of the protection we've apparently enjoyed under secured FD loans of course.
@Airman Brown what are the risks around that eventuality?
I’m no expert and don’t claim to be, but clearly many businesses will borrow against their assets to fund investment. In Man United’s case it was used to fund the purchase, as I understand it. The problem in Charlton’s case is that the business is unlikely to be profitable outside of the Premier League, so there are no spare revenues to service the debt, except potentially player sales, and ultimately unless promoted the club would have to attract further investment or go bust.
Should add that it is very unlikely you could borrow enough from a conventional bank against the assets to fund the publicised purchase price or a promotion challenge, but I reckon that by selling Taylor in January and borrowing against the ground (which requires repaying ex-directors first) you could buy yourself a year or two if you could avoid relegation to L1.
Assuming though that Southall and others involved are behaving as rational businessmen, that does not seem like much of a business plan. If they had achieved no more than that, (avoiding relegation) its hard to see how they could then expect to sell the club again at a significant profit to themselves.
There has to be something else involved in any business plan which does not primarily focus on increasing resale value by making the football club a more competitive attractive proposition than it is now (i.e. in the FAPL, or within reach of it). If it were 2010, we'd hear Lee Amis saying "it's a property play, it's always a property play" but it seems (and you know way more than most of us on that) that no such property play is available at least on a short term horizon.
The word 'should' is interesting....and why the further delay? Personally I want it to go through, I want us to be rich, I want all the success that may follow, but I am simply passing on what I have heard. Not going to say who from, and i hope it is speculation born of worry and fear. If any of you know anything else then share, especially if it rubbishes what I have written, I would be delighted.
You haven’t actually written anything.
What do you want, the conversation written out word for word as I remember it? A script? I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off. I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview. I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money. If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
Don’t think anyone thinks that Seth. Maybe you could have explained things a bit better - as could have Bowyer in his pre-match sky chat. People will always take comments how they want to - and usually it’s negative. That is understandable given the last 6 years and having to endure the likes of old dirty teeth, his bint sidekick and that Weasel Murray. We are also in limbo, not really had any real clarity since we heard about the takeover picking up pace. That said, Southall did say they would be making no further comment. Even if he did speak now, what is he going to say? All we know if that the interviews have taken place and Southall has spoken to Bowyer and Co.
All you have done is pass info on that you have heard and how you have read it.
For what it is worth, and as I said, my first post was clumsily written as I stood on a jostling crowd on platform 1 of Charlton station waiting for the 10.06 to Lewisham. I am not slick with mobile telephone typing so my initial post was less clear than I would've liked. I have subsequently tried to clarify whilst maintaining a modicum of discretion. Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed. Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
Seth......you’re an old and trusted poster on here but you were/are wrong to have made your initial post.....I’ll tell you why. Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. You could also be being set up by someone who knows you use the message boards and social media......I don’t know. What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ? So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it. All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work. Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.
Comments
If I was Sherlock Holmes I would point to the owners having their own people to decide the targets. Now if they are bringing in top players, that wont be too bad although I can see why Bowyer may not be happy. He and Gallen have done pretty well doing these things themselves.
Still, all we can do is make stabs in the dark. I'd love some clarity soon.
In Seth's defense I spoke to someone on Tuesday within the club, could have shared what they said (it was nothing ground breaking or worrying BTW) but decided not to as I wanted to protect them. I think sometimes people want to share what they know but at the same time not reveal too much as it protects their source.
I have said I feel less confident than I did after having the conversation, not that the takeover is off.
I mentioned some elements like the time it has taken being a bit of a worry, that the EFL are not being villainous, that personal checks are over, that Duchatelet has not been especially thorough himself, that Bowyer was evasive about Taylor's contract in an interview.
I will add that the key fundamental in all this, from the three parties, the EFL, Duchatelet,and the buyers/wider investors is, guess what, the money.
If all that makes me an attention seeking wrong un who spouts continuous bullshit then that is the problem for those who see it that way, I passed on my experience and linked it to my degree of confidence. I am content with that, whatever others think.
What an absolute worldie.
So to be outside the Parameters of the above and their polar opposite ways of running a football club makes you wonder what is the strange or different ways of a young go ahead chairman with a degree in business management ?
Should add that it is very unlikely you could borrow enough from a conventional bank against the assets to fund the publicised purchase price or a promotion challenge, but I reckon that by selling Taylor in January and borrowing against the ground (which requires repaying ex-directors first) you could buy yourself a year or two if you could avoid relegation to L1.
Yesterday evening a lot of posters were abusive towards me, which is fair enough that is their mindset, but I really don't see the big crime I am supposed to have committed.
Perhaps the abusive posters will help me by explaining the reason for their abuse.
After all it was partly down to their demise that Bury were able to sell of the Ground and Parking Space to fund other ventures which in their case werent for the Football club
Also any purchase would have demonstrate ongoing funds to the EFL, and we are led to believe there will be investment so this doesn't seem significant to me, although it would ask questions about the funding levels.
Is there some accounting reason it would be beneficial? Some way to avoid FFP, or hide ownership?
It would of course remove some of the protection we've apparently enjoyed under secured FD loans of course.
There has to be something else involved in any business plan which does not primarily focus on increasing resale value by making the football club a more competitive attractive proposition than it is now (i.e. in the FAPL, or within reach of it). If it were 2010, we'd hear Lee Amis saying "it's a property play, it's always a property play" but it seems (and you know way more than most of us on that) that no such property play is available at least on a short term horizon.
Sexism alive and well within my group of sad middle aged men
And crucial.
And strange.
Over the years I, like many others, have picked up on stuff from what you would think from pretty reliable sources that I could easily have posted on here but chose not to because they were potentially distressing to the fan base, “especially” when they were not substantiated and simply possibly been spread as idle gossip. You could also be being set up by someone who knows you use the message boards and social media......I don’t know.
What you wrote will have put the shits up many a fan ( myself included) and set off a chain of discontent and genuine apprehension, you admit yourself that what you heard may not be factual, yet still chose to post it.....why ?
So what the bloody he’ll was the point Seth.....keep your mouth shut, see if anyone posts something along similar lines (which they haven’t by the way) and then maybe throw your two pennarth into the ring is how I’d have played it.
All you have done is to cause distress and anxiety....nice work.
Sometimes it’s best just to keep your mouth shut......I’m sorry but I think this has been one of those occasions.