There are some people who think that, in all cases, a situation where the club and the ground are under different ownership is "worse" than the current situation. I don't agree.
Currently, the title of the ground is a convoluted. The ground is owned by Baton, which in turn is c.90% owned by Roland. But there is a charge on the property that is shared, unequally, between seven other investors (the "former directors"). So the club is, in all intents and purposes owned by Roland and the ground is "shared" between Roland and other investors.
There *could* be a situation where the club is owned, 100%, by a consortium of Aussies, whose aspiration is purely on the return they can generate by improving the team (ie by getting promoted to the highest possible level), while the ground is owned, 100%, by a consortium of American investors who are purely and exclusively interested in the capital appreciation that will naturally accrue from a large piece of London real estate, whilst having no intention to develop the site. This would free up the football club to concentrate solely on the football; and free up the real estate investor to make capital gains, notwithstanding the performance of the team.
If anyone thinks that is something that must be avoided at all costs, I have to disagree. Because it implies that there is a preference for the current owner to continue. If that happens, Charlton will cease to exist in a few years' time. We are in terminal decline, with an owner who has no desire to risk any more of his investment and seemingly no clue as to how to exit. Make no mistake about it: with Roland in charge, Charlton will cease to be.
So, does anyone really have a preference to see Charlton fold, rather than have two distinct, committed, professional consortia owning the parts of the club in which their aspirations expertise lie?
A lot of best case scenarios and guess work here, but the evidence is out there that, very few, if any football clubs have a track record of long term success without owning their stadium and those you can name could be put against a list 5-10 times larger by those who have been unsuccessful.
I agree that, in England at least, there are few clubs that succeed at the highest level, long-term, where the ownership of the club and the ground are separated.
But there are precisely no clubs who succeed, at any level, after they have been ground into oblivion by malignant, uncaring, stupid, Belgian millionaires.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
@PragueAddick are you saying Usmanov looked at the sale document in 2014 or more recently ?
How can I stop getting emails from cl telling me somebody has contributed to this thread ....I have about 500 to delete
You may have accidentally “starred” the thread. If you’re on your phone, look on the right of the CL homescreen - if there’s a solid star, tap it to uncheck it.
Ok thanks I have changed it from yellow to white..hope it works..sincere thanks
Fanny, are you attending the FF tomorrow or have you officially left the role and can't return ?
I've left the role but unsure whether it can be classed as "officially" as I continue to receive email invitations to attend from Tom R.
As there is no NWK Addicks now to represent, there would probably have to be a change in the original rules for me to be accepted.
However, said rules would appear to have been bent out of shape somewhat over recent years and I might be able to claim a seat at the table by representing, for example, our regular away fans.
But, living an hour away from The Valley since 2015, it would mean that Mr F would have to drive me there & back, which I feel is an unacceptable request for me to make.
Plenty of good people in the Group these days so I'm definitely not missed.
I think a lot of the posts suggesting no price has been agreed, no bid on the table and not having the money are wide of the mark. FWIW I think something is going down and it’s reaching a conclusion. That’s not the same as reaching a positive conclusion because too much can go wrong at any point especially when dealing with someone like Duchatelet. I do think the two “buying” parties involved are getting their ducks in a row and it will either work out or not in the next week or so.
The way it's gone it could easily drag on another year.
We know that the Aussies are serious because they’ve been chipping away at this for a long time. They obviously didn’t have the means to secure the club and have at this point arrived with partners or perhaps just finance from America. Now that may collapse if the Americans pull out and then indeed we might see a long time before any group gets as close as we currently are. I would guess that should the Americans pull the plug then the Aussies might call it a day but that’s just my view. They might well seek partners elsewhere.
Tomorrow LdT will have to answer some searching questions and we might all know a lot more by midnight tomorrow. I’m keen to know if @Airman Brown is correct that RD has been turning away interest. That to me seems very odd for someone keen to find a buyer.
I doubt we’ll hear very much now until tomorrow at the FF.
Over to you, Lieven...
A deal will never get done until Roland gives up on these Aussies who have yet to put a deal together for over a year. His valuation is based on their negotiations, which I believe is irrelevant as they don’t have the funding. If they do have funding then ask Lieven tomorrow why the deal has never got done. I believe there are other real bidders waiting for a deal at the correct price, but have been put off by price Aussies supposedly agreed to pay. My question for Lieven would be why are you wasting your time with the Aussies who clearly don’t have the funding in place.
This is almost word for word what a few have been saying, and getting a little bit of stick for tbh, for a while.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
@PragueAddick are you saying Usmanov looked at the sale document in 2014 or more recently ?
Fanny, are you attending the FF tomorrow or have you officially left the role and can't return ?
I've left the role but unsure whether it can be classed as "officially" as I continue to receive email invitations to attend from Tom R.
As there is no NWK Addicks now to represent, there would probably have to be a change in the original rules for me to be accepted.
However, said rules would appear to have been bent out of shape somewhat over recent years and I might be able to claim a seat at the table by representing, for example, our regular away fans.
But, living an hour away from The Valley since 2015, it would mean that Mr F would have to drive me there & back, which I feel is an unacceptable request for me to make.
Plenty of good people in the Group these days so I'm definitely not missed.
I doubt LDT would know North West Kent from Timbukto.
There are some people who think that, in all cases, a situation where the club and the ground are under different ownership is "worse" than the current situation. I don't agree.
Currently, the title of the ground is a convoluted. The ground is owned by Baton, which in turn is c.90% owned by Roland. But there is a charge on the property that is shared, unequally, between seven other investors (the "former directors"). So the club is, in all intents and purposes owned by Roland and the ground is "shared" between Roland and other investors.
There *could* be a situation where the club is owned, 100%, by a consortium of Aussies, whose aspiration is purely on the return they can generate by improving the team (ie by getting promoted to the highest possible level), while the ground is owned, 100%, by a consortium of American investors who are purely and exclusively interested in the capital appreciation that will naturally accrue from a large piece of London real estate, whilst having no intention to develop the site. This would free up the football club to concentrate solely on the football; and free up the real estate investor to make capital gains, notwithstanding the performance of the team.
If anyone thinks that is something that must be avoided at all costs, I have to disagree. Because it implies that there is a preference for the current owner to continue. If that happens, Charlton will cease to exist in a few years' time. We are in terminal decline, with an owner who has no desire to risk any more of his investment and seemingly no clue as to how to exit. Make no mistake about it: with Roland in charge, Charlton will cease to be.
So, does anyone really have a preference to see Charlton fold, rather than have two distinct, committed, professional consortia owning the parts of the club in which their aspirations expertise lie?
A lot of best case scenarios and guess work here, but the evidence is out there that, very few, if any football clubs have a track record of long term success without owning their stadium and those you can name could be put against a list 5-10 times larger by those who have been unsuccessful.
I agree that, in England at least, there are few clubs that succeed at the highest level, long-term, where the ownership of the club and the ground are separated.
But there are precisely no clubs who succeed, at any level, after they have been ground into oblivion by malignant, uncaring, stupid, Belgian millionaires.
I think a lot of the posts suggesting no price has been agreed, no bid on the table and not having the money are wide of the mark. FWIW I think something is going down and it’s reaching a conclusion. That’s not the same as reaching a positive conclusion because too much can go wrong at any point especially when dealing with someone like Duchatelet. I do think the two “buying” parties involved are getting their ducks in a row and it will either work out or not in the next week or so.
The way it's gone it could easily drag on another year.
We know that the Aussies are serious because they’ve been chipping away at this for a long time. They obviously didn’t have the means to secure the club and have at this point arrived with partners or perhaps just finance from America. Now that may collapse if the Americans pull out and then indeed we might see a long time before any group gets as close as we currently are. I would guess that should the Americans pull the plug then the Aussies might call it a day but that’s just my view. They might well seek partners elsewhere.
Tomorrow LdT will have to answer some searching questions and we might all know a lot more by midnight tomorrow. I’m keen to know if @Airman Brown is correct that RD has been turning away interest. That to me seems very odd for someone keen to find a buyer.
I doubt we’ll hear very much now until tomorrow at the FF.
Over to you, Lieven...
A deal will never get done until Roland gives up on these Aussies who have yet to put a deal together for over a year. His valuation is based on their negotiations, which I believe is irrelevant as they don’t have the funding. If they do have funding then ask Lieven tomorrow why the deal has never got done. I believe there are other real bidders waiting for a deal at the correct price, but have been put off by price Aussies supposedly agreed to pay. My question for Lieven would be why are you wasting your time with the Aussies who clearly don’t have the funding in place.
This is almost word for word what a few have been saying, and getting a little bit of stick for tbh, for a while.
I don't know if that is correct, but if it is it's certainly a worry. However is it possible other bidders were playing (very) low ball?
I think a lot of the posts suggesting no price has been agreed, no bid on the table and not having the money are wide of the mark. FWIW I think something is going down and it’s reaching a conclusion. That’s not the same as reaching a positive conclusion because too much can go wrong at any point especially when dealing with someone like Duchatelet. I do think the two “buying” parties involved are getting their ducks in a row and it will either work out or not in the next week or so.
The way it's gone it could easily drag on another year.
We know that the Aussies are serious because they’ve been chipping away at this for a long time. They obviously didn’t have the means to secure the club and have at this point arrived with partners or perhaps just finance from America. Now that may collapse if the Americans pull out and then indeed we might see a long time before any group gets as close as we currently are. I would guess that should the Americans pull the plug then the Aussies might call it a day but that’s just my view. They might well seek partners elsewhere.
Tomorrow LdT will have to answer some searching questions and we might all know a lot more by midnight tomorrow. I’m keen to know if @Airman Brown is correct that RD has been turning away interest. That to me seems very odd for someone keen to find a buyer.
I doubt we’ll hear very much now until tomorrow at the FF.
Over to you, Lieven...
A deal will never get done until Roland gives up on these Aussies who have yet to put a deal together for over a year. His valuation is based on their negotiations, which I believe is irrelevant as they don’t have the funding. If they do have funding then ask Lieven tomorrow why the deal has never got done. I believe there are other real bidders waiting for a deal at the correct price, but have been put off by price Aussies supposedly agreed to pay. My question for Lieven would be why are you wasting your time with the Aussies who clearly don’t have the funding in place.
This is almost word for word what a few have been saying, and getting a little bit of stick for tbh, for a while.
I don't know if that is correct, but if it is it's certainly a worry. However is it possible other bidders were playing (very) low ball?
I think the meet and greet at the training ground on a Sunday as championed by Airman may have been with 'POTENTIAL new owners'. Not 'THE new owners.' Chinese whispers play a f****** huge part in a lot that goes on here.
What happened is that the group was described to those who happened to be there when they went round. Whether the original language or the retelling of it is imprecise probably isn’t meaningful.
Good to see confirmation from JW of the American angle.
Not meaningful? How can you say that?
This whole sorry charade has blown up again partly on the back of that statement. Quite how you can nonchalantly bat it into the long grass is pretty astounding tbh.
No it hasn’t. We know that they were there and why they were there. That has been verified within the club. What was said and was never to be relied upon and I said as much when I reported it.
The Jim White stuff came out 24 hours later, isn’t from the same source at all, and is what has driven the frenzy.
You said in an earlier post that Gerard Murphy text you last night saying he’d text when a deal was done, or words to that effect. Was that a text out of the blue or in response to one from you? If out of the blue doesn’t that seem to suggest at least something is happening?
I sort of get all the animosity towards the 'Aussies', whoever and whichever they are. OK if they haven't got the money, fine, but what's to stop Roland and LDT talking to any and all of the other 'bidders', including the famed English bid et alia? Hopefully all will be revealed at the FF. As if . Meantime, looking forward to Shrewsbury.
You said in an earlier post that Gerard Murphy text you last night saying he’d text when a deal was done, or words to that effect. Was that a text out of the blue or in response to one from you? If out of the blue doesn’t that seem to suggest at least something is happening?
Thanks! We've communicated about general Charlton football related things, and family stuff only. I don't bother asking about the takeover because I know he can't tell me anything. But last night I thought it sounded close, so I couldn't resist. Just asked if he'd let me know if the deal was completed. He said he would. We're planning to meet up once it's done. If it isn't I doubt if he'll be in the country.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
The quoted price went up dramatically in December and De Turck knows that because he was the messenger.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
The quoted price went up dramatically in December and De Turck knows that because he was the messenger.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
The quoted price went up dramatically in December and De Turck knows that because he was the messenger.
Well, I'm a bit sceptical that other potential buyers are being turned away because of the Aussies.Exclusivity? For a year or more? It doesn't seem like rational business behaviour to me. But then again, this is Duchatelet we are dealing with here.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here: Alisher Usmanov. As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period. I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
The quoted price went up dramatically in December and De Turck knows that because he was the messenger.
Comments
But there are precisely no clubs who succeed, at any level, after they have been ground into oblivion by malignant, uncaring, stupid, Belgian millionaires.
I think it far more likely that credible buyers take a look and then walk away once they have seen the price tag. Indeed I'm now able to reveal an example of that, involving a name that has been bandied around on here:
Alisher Usmanov.
As I've mentioned at various times, there is a Vienna based Addick who is a senior honcho in an investment bank there. In 2014, he came (too) late in the game with a bid involving the Arenacom guys and a Ukrainian oligarch. Apparently Usmanov is his client (for other business) so he took the opportunity to pitch the sale to him. Usmanov was interested enough to look over the sale documentation (knowing full well Charlton's League position). However after reading said documents he replied that he wasn't interested. Period.
I also learnt that Steve spoke with Richard Murray in December. Murray told him that he thought a deal was near but he did not say to Steve that he should back off with other buyers because of this.
This reinforces my long held view that the issue is the unrealistic price that RD is holding out for, and the Aussies have so far been the only party willing to even try to reason with the deluded one. For people like Usmanov, it's not worth them wasting their breath.
In fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue!
There's the Americas link - just need to find one for Australia for the same year. Bit of a problem as it wasn't discoved by Europeans until 1606!
As there is no NWK Addicks now to represent, there would probably have to be a change in the original rules for me to be accepted.
However, said rules would appear to have been bent out of shape somewhat over recent years and I might be able to claim a seat at the table by representing, for example, our regular away fans.
But, living an hour away from The Valley since 2015, it would mean that Mr F would have to drive me there & back, which I feel is an unacceptable request for me to make.
Plenty of good people in the Group these days so I'm definitely not missed.
However is it possible other bidders were playing (very) low ball?
The Jim White stuff came out 24 hours later, isn’t from the same source at all, and is what has driven the frenzy.
You said in an earlier post that Gerard Murphy text you last night saying he’d text when a deal was done, or words to that effect. Was that a text out of the blue or in response to one from you? If out of the blue doesn’t that seem to suggest at least something is happening?
We've communicated about general Charlton football related things, and family stuff only. I don't bother asking about the takeover because I know he can't tell me anything.
But last night I thought it sounded close, so I couldn't resist. Just asked if he'd let me know if the deal was completed. He said he would. We're planning to meet up once it's done. If it isn't I doubt if he'll be in the country.
Let him answer that