Mr Seed the frustration is more acute in this period,for ALL football fans this period between seasons is our sesson of HOPE. May be just, may be we can forget the decades of disappointment/shit and this season with a few signings we could actually go somewhere.That forward could score 25 goals etc etc
With CAFC it usually ends in disappointment but with RD our wealthiest owner its been thin squad to anorexic ---then we are TOLD new owners WILL be here at the end of last season .So our period of hope increases ,we might not be feeding out of the left overs and the dregs,we might be able to actually have a go-------- but here we are ---dead in the water-----a squad horrifically thin----even our small season of hope has been taken away.
I totally get what you are saying. The only crumb of comfort is that they haven't walked away.
I'm almost resigned for this sale thing to happen too late for the transfer window, but perhaps we'll get some great loanees before that window closes?
And the January window, although never an easy time to do business, might be another chance to improve the squad?
And even if we mess up the season, we should be in a much better place this time next year under our new CEO and ownership.
You know me, over-optimistic to the bitter end.
[I'm not saying it won't happen next week by the way.]
This might be a dumb question but...do you know if the Aussies grasp the transfer window element? There have been instances of investors from not traditionally footballing countries not grasping some of the nuances of the sport over here.
Don’t be daft, they have windows over there as well, I’ve been there and seen them on their houses
Quite a few, but yes a minority, have tried to put some or all of the blame on the Aussies.
You only have to read Golfies post to see the most extreme version of this but after the Fans Forums when LDT said the delay was down to EFL paperwork a lot of fingers were pointed at the convicts.
For the record I'm not blaming the Aussies for the delay but merely stating that the whole sorry saga could be finalised if they simply took over the ex-director loans the same as RD did. They don't have to pay the £7m now & maybe not even ever as they only have to be repaid once we get to the Premiership.....and that may never happen.......or sometime in the future the "7" do a deal & take less money. It is plain to see that RD is not going to pay the full amount anytime soon & I'd had thought that to get supporters onside then making out to be the "good guys" in all this would be in their best interests. Instead, it seems to me, they are happy to see their "investment" slowly lose more of its value because as every week goes by we are getting weaker & weaker & they will have to spend even more money trying to get us promoted in 2019/20 as to sure to god we ain't got a cat in hells chance this season.
and, to answer @James Seed, that is why I feel they are worse than RD. We all know he don't give a shit......seems they don't either.
Is interest being paid on those loans though ? If it is and the rate is a little on the high side, and they are historical loans so that wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility, the Aussies probably wouldn’t want them. Maybe that is the issue.
Just a thought but wouldn't now be the best time to go and protest in Belgium, whilst there is an offer on the table in an attempt to force Roland to lower his asking price?
Quite a few, but yes a minority, have tried to put some or all of the blame on the Aussies.
You only have to read Golfies post to see the most extreme version of this but after the Fans Forums when LDT said the delay was down to EFL paperwork a lot of fingers were pointed at the convicts.
For the record I'm not blaming the Aussies for the delay but merely stating that the whole sorry saga could be finalised if they simply took over the ex-director loans the same as RD did. They don't have to pay the £7m now & maybe not even ever as they only have to be repaid once we get to the Premiership.....and that may never happen.......or sometime in the future the "7" do a deal & take less money. It is plain to see that RD is not going to pay the full amount anytime soon & I'd had thought that to get supporters onside then making out to be the "good guys" in all this would be in their best interests. Instead, it seems to me, they are happy to see their "investment" slowly lose more of its value because as every week goes by we are getting weaker & weaker & they will have to spend even more money trying to get us promoted in 2019/20 as to sure to god we ain't got a cat in hells chance this season.
and, to answer @James Seed, T hat is why I feel they are worse than RD. We all know he don't give a shit......seems they don't either.
This assumes that the Australians are the ones not playing ball with the outstanding debts. It's not inconceivable that A) Murray is playing silly buggers to buy time for the mysterious "other bid" or B.) that some others are not happy with RD swanning off with a profit and not paying them money owed.
All theoretical but the Australians have no reason not to wrap it up ASAP and I can't see why they wouldn't take on/write off the debt if they could, so it seems for whatever reason they can't.
I was joking pre 1000 pages about hitting 2000 before the takeover happens. But I’m pretty convinced we’ll clear it easily before the Aussies/whoever get keys to The Valley. #target3000
Mr Seed the frustration is more acute in this period,for ALL football fans this period between seasons is our sesson of HOPE. May be just, may be we can forget the decades of disappointment/shit and this season with a few signings we could actually go somewhere.That forward could score 25 goals etc etc
With CAFC it usually ends in disappointment but with RD our wealthiest owner its been thin squad to anorexic ---then we are TOLD new owners WILL be here at the end of last season .So our period of hope increases ,we might not be feeding out of the left overs and the dregs,we might be able to actually have a go-------- but here we are ---dead in the water-----a squad horrifically thin----even our small season of hope has been taken away.
I totally get what you are saying. The only crumb of comfort is that they haven't walked away.
I'm almost resigned for this sale thing to happen too late for the transfer window, but perhaps we'll get some great loanees before that window closes?
And the January window, although never an easy time to do business, might be another chance to improve the squad?
And even if we mess up the season, we should be in a much better place this time next year under our new CEO and ownership.
You know me, over-optimistic to the bitter end.
[I'm not saying it won't happen next week by the way.]
This might be a dumb question but...do you know if the Aussies grasp the transfer window element? There have been instances of investors from not traditionally footballing countries not grasping some of the nuances of the sport over here.
Don’t be daft, they have windows over there as well, I’ve been there and seen them on their houses
Quite a few, but yes a minority, have tried to put some or all of the blame on the Aussies.
You only have to read Golfies post to see the most extreme version of this but after the Fans Forums when LDT said the delay was down to EFL paperwork a lot of fingers were pointed at the convicts.
For the record I'm not blaming the Aussies for the delay but merely stating that the whole sorry saga could be finalised if they simply took over the ex-director loans the same as RD did. They don't have to pay the £7m now & maybe not even ever as they only have to be repaid once we get to the Premiership.....and that may never happen.......or sometime in the future the "7" do a deal & take less money. It is plain to see that RD is not going to pay the full amount anytime soon & I'd had thought that to get supporters onside then making out to be the "good guys" in all this would be in their best interests. Instead, it seems to me, they are happy to see their "investment" slowly lose more of its value because as every week goes by we are getting weaker & weaker & they will have to spend even more money trying to get us promoted in 2019/20 as to sure to god we ain't got a cat in hells chance this season.
and, to answer @James Seed, that is why I feel they are worse than RD. We all know he don't give a shit......seems they don't either.
Is interest being paid on those loans though ? If it is and the rate is a little on the high side, and they are historical loans so that wouldn’t be beyond the realms of possibility, the Aussies probably wouldn’t want them. Maybe that is the issue.
There is no interest payable on the loans outside the Premier League. However, the loan holders’ permission is required to enter into any leases on the land, which potentially affects CACT, the retail, catering and museum operations. In short, the ex-directors can potentially obstruct these to lever the position. The charges would also complicate any attempt to borrow new money against the assets and it may concern investors in the company that they are a first charge in the event of insolvency, which may be the most significant aspect.
I know board takeovers can take forever but I'm in the middle of something ridiculous. The takeover has been going on for 3-4 months at least and there hasn't been an update from the chairman telling me what's going on and there hasn't been a news item on it (i.e. takeover on the rocks, new owners don't have the funds etc.).
SPORTS INTERACTIVE FOOTBALL MANAGER GAME THREAD Posted April 12, 2016 Amateur James_Fraser Managing Stockport County. In the Prem now!
Uncanny, and of course in the real world Stockport County are not in the Prem but have fallen down the pyramid and out of the Football League altogether so.........................oh dear!
Maybe too much sun but in the unlikely event of reaching the premier then the 7 million owed to ex directors would be small fry in the amount you receive in windfall.
Sorry snakes and ladders time, I will start reading from the first page because I have obviously missed some salient points in between the fish puns and Samuel Beckett (guilty as charged)
I know board takeovers can take forever but I'm in the middle of something ridiculous. The takeover has been going on for 3-4 months at least and there hasn't been an update from the chairman telling me what's going on and there hasn't been a news item on it (i.e. takeover on the rocks, new owners don't have the funds etc.).
SPORTS INTERACTIVE FOOTBALL MANAGER GAME THREAD Posted April 12, 2016 Amateur James_Fraser Managing Stockport County. In the Prem now!
Uncanny, and of course in the real world Stockport County are not in the Prem but have fallen down the pyramid and out of the Football League altogether so.........................oh dear!
No one has doubted who the delay is down too in the last 4 weeks or who is responsible for the shit state we find ourselves In
The delay is financial 100%
But there has to be a point where someone moves and it won’t be two shit cnut chalets
Or he would’ve done it by now
That leaves the buyers to either walk away or find a solution to resolve it or we wi just right off this season and more than likely give atleast a ten point start to every other club around us because our squad is not good enough or big enough to cope right now
If that happens they will have to be preapared for another season after this one in lge 1 or even if they want a lge 2 club
If the rumours are right and Murray is involved in the Brits interest he certainly won’t be rushing to do anything pre xmas when they can gauge the road ahead of them
Murray can't do anything without clear title, he can't afford to but, maybe that was the reason for the offer to the directors?
I find it hard to believe that Murray has a major financial involvement with the rival consortium, we've had 2 rescues (Spivs and Roland) takeovers since he was in charge, and the money ran out.
Apart from anything else, he's older and his health is worse, I doubt he would be up to a major role, other than some sort of part time Chairman/President role
Sorry I ment as part of a bid, I doubt he could raise enough to buy the whole club but it could be him that suggested the lease back option?
Maybe too much sun but in the unlikely event of reaching the premier then the 7 million owed to ex directors would be small fry in the amount you receive in windfall.
Sorry snakes and ladders time, I will start reading from the first page because I have obviously missed some salient points in between the fish puns and Samuel Beckett (guilty as charged)
If you've offered (say) £35m for something that you think you are buying outright - to then find out "oh by the way when you reach (if ever) the Premier league - you have to pay out another £7m" is not, in my mind, small fry! It's effectively another 20%.
I think Duchatelet would be forced to appoint Bowyer as manager if we get to the start of the season under his ownership, i.e Bowyer would, quite rightly, demand it. So the fact he remains caretaker is interesting.
You think he's going to pull a rabbit out of the hat? I don't. It's classic Duchatelet. We've been without a CEO for how long now?
He's just being his ameteurish, unprofessional and completely out of touch self . No doubt Bowyers new contract will be hastily drawn up the night before the season kicks off.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
Indeed, or to look at it from another angle. RD paid £14m for it (do we agree on that figure, btw?. Certainly not as much as £20m). Since then he has spent £1m on the pitch, and made a start (only) on the training ground. Meantime he has taken the club down a division and has lost thousands of customers in the process.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
Indeed, or to look at it from another angle. RD paid £14m for it (do we agree on that figure, btw?. Certainly not as much as £20m). Since then he has spent £1m on the pitch, and made a start (only) on the training ground. Meantime he has taken the club down a division and has lost thousands of customers in the process.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
But we keep hearing that the price has been agreed?
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
Indeed, or to look at it from another angle. RD paid £14m for it (do we agree on that figure, btw?. Certainly not as much as £20m). Since then he has spent £1m on the pitch, and made a start (only) on the training ground. Meantime he has taken the club down a division and has lost thousands of customers in the process.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
Indeed, or to look at it from another angle. RD paid £14m for it (do we agree on that figure, btw?. Certainly not as much as £20m). Since then he has spent £1m on the pitch, and made a start (only) on the training ground. Meantime he has taken the club down a division and has lost thousands of customers in the process.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
But we keep hearing that the price has been agreed?
If the potential buyers had told him £20m max was all they would pay, Roland would have had to reduce his asking price surely?
The charges would also complicate any attempt to borrow new money against the assets and it may concern investors in the company that they are a first charge in the event of insolvency, which may be the most significant aspect.
I believe this sums up the true importance of ex-Director loans.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
The worth/value is mainly in the land. Here are the latest accounts. Look at point 11 on page 25. If I understand the accounts correctly the land is worth £41.5M. RD had the land revalued upwards since ownership. Whilst an owner may not be able to develop the land, the mere fact that it is in London will ensure that the value will continue to grow.
NB I believe one of the reasons RD bought Charlton without comprehensive due dilligence, was because he paid £14M + £4M as Charlton escaped relegation, knowing full well the value/increasing value of the land.
I still struggle to get my head around how anything that loses so much money (£5m+ a year) can be worth so much money.
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
Indeed, or to look at it from another angle. RD paid £14m for it (do we agree on that figure, btw?. Certainly not as much as £20m). Since then he has spent £1m on the pitch, and made a start (only) on the training ground. Meantime he has taken the club down a division and has lost thousands of customers in the process.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
No, we don't. The 2016 Baton accounts state that a debt of £18.6m was acquired at the date of acquisition. That figure was also referred to by Joyes in a meeting as what Duchatelet paid.
Comments
All theoretical but the Australians have no reason not to wrap it up ASAP and I can't see why they wouldn't take on/write off the debt if they could, so it seems for whatever reason they can't.
But I’m pretty convinced we’ll clear it easily before the Aussies/whoever get keys to The Valley.
#target3000
I know board takeovers can take forever but I'm in the middle of something ridiculous. The takeover has been going on for 3-4 months at least and there hasn't been an update from the chairman telling me what's going on and there hasn't been a news item on it (i.e. takeover on the rocks, new owners don't have the funds etc.).
SPORTS INTERACTIVE FOOTBALL MANAGER GAME THREAD
Posted April 12, 2016
Amateur
James_Fraser
Managing Stockport County. In the Prem now!
Uncanny,
and of course in the real world Stockport County are not in the Prem but have fallen down the pyramid and out of the Football League altogether so.........................oh dear!
I'm going for page 1234 !
If this bastard does not sell soon.
How much in the protest fund?
Sorry snakes and ladders time, I will start reading from the first page because I have obviously missed some salient points in between the fish puns and Samuel Beckett (guilty as charged)
Sure, there is the valuation of the assets, and the potential for increased income at the top of the game. I get that.
But I still don't know why anyone would pay such a premium for it unless it was part of a non-footballing commercial strategy that you would have a greater percentage chance of making the investment profitable.
With professional consortiums that have no emotional ties to their potential purchase, you know this is not am individual vanity or ego project, but on the basis of it being an investment they believe they will get a profitable return from (or their individual contribution is negligible enough to take a risk on).
And its all very well saying that RD is unrealistic in his valuation. But if there are at least two parties that have been prepared to pay his valuation, then unfortunately he is not being unrealistic.
Madness.
On what planet, then, can he now claim that the business is worth £40m, or anything near it?
I think that this is the issue holding up the sale. Really that simple.
Look at point 11 on page 25.
If I understand the accounts correctly the land is worth £41.5M.
RD had the land revalued upwards since ownership.
Whilst an owner may not be able to develop the land, the mere fact that it is in London will ensure that the value will continue to grow.
NB I believe one of the reasons RD bought Charlton without comprehensive due dilligence, was because he paid £14M + £4M as Charlton escaped relegation, knowing full well the value/increasing value of the land.
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