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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)

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  • edited June 2018
    Couple things:
    1) I am learning more about UK contract law than I ever wanted to know.

    2) Something I've long felt (though my opinion on this is not nearly as well informed as many on here) is that Jiminez, Cash, et al continue to get far too easy of a pass. That's not to give RD a pass by any means, but it is clear that things were very rotten in Denmark when he took over. I've seen the phrase "they did well until the money ran out" thrown around many times on here, and I've always felt that is a self-contradicting statement. If the money runs out and you're in charge, then you've failed. And that's especially true if things were as bad as GTKTN made out.
  • Surely if the only thing holding up a sale was some spurious doubt about who owned/sold us in the spivs time this would be pretty to insure against. We are a very public business, the ownership is not (now) difficult to understand. If some bloke came out of the shadows in future to say it was really his before I think he would have a hard time proving it and explaining why he did not mention it previously. This is a red herring guys.
  • Cafc43v3r said:

    I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.

    Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?

    Is that brought or bought?
    Don't get me started, it's a completely irrational annoyance of mine - why do people, particularly northerners, get these words mixed up?
  • SDAddick said:

    Couple things:
    1) I am learning more about UK contract law than I ever wanted to know.

    2) Something I've long felt (though my opinion on this is not nearly as well informed as many on here) is that Jiminez, Cash, et al continue to get far too easy of a pass. That's not to give RD a pass by any means, but it is clear that things were very rotten in Denmark when he took over. I've seen the phrase "they did well until the money ran out" thrown around many times on here, and I've always felt that is a self-contradicting statement. If the money runs out and you're in charge, then you've failed. And that's especially true if things were as bad as GTKTN made out.

    I kind of agree, I think when the dust has settled in a few years we'll see that Roland undermined the culture of our club to the extent that it will take years to recover whereas our actual existence was far more in danger with Jimenez and Slater.
  • se9addick said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.

    Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?

    Is that brought or bought?
    Don't get me started, it's a completely irrational annoyance of mine - why do people, particularly northerners, get these words mixed up?
    Sorry typo obviously ment bought
  • se9addick said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.

    Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?

    Is that brought or bought?
    Don't get me started, it's a completely irrational annoyance of mine - why do people, particularly northerners, get these words mixed up?
    It's not as bad as 'I could care less' makes my blood boil.
  • Addickted said:

    Wouldn't it be fecking hilarious if it turns out Duchatalet doesn't actually own the Club?

    That was very funny.
  • Cafc43v3r said:

    se9addick said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.

    Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?

    Is that brought or bought?
    Don't get me started, it's a completely irrational annoyance of mine - why do people, particularly northerners, get these words mixed up?
    Sorry typo obviously ment bought
    Understood....ok.
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  • micks1950 said:

    .

    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan said:

    If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.

    I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.

    Surely, the answer to that first bit (assuming the mem and arts were bog-standard), is the directors of the company (notwithstanding who the beneficial owner is) together with whoever was authorised to sign the share transfer document (probably the company secretary). As long as the Land Registry was clear as to the name of the corporate owner of the freehold assets: sorted.

    Second paragraph: I agree with you.
    Wouldn’t the BVI aspect of this muddy the water ?

    In any case Airman has settled my nerves. I think

    I doubt it, though I concede that I'm well out of date on this stuff. The oft-used process used to be to set up a BVI company with local nominee directors and a confidential beneficial owner. The BVI company would then become 100% owner of an Isle of Man subsidiary company and that would be used to acquire UK assets. (I don't recall that the spivs even bothered with the IoM bit.)

    Anyway, I suppose if a beneficial owner of the ultimate holding company said that stuff is mine and I didn't give consent for its sale, that would be a whole can of worms that could likely only be sorted in the Courts.
    Below is a diagram of CAFC's ownership structure under the spivs taken from the recent court case against Jimenez and Cash.

    Small wonder that it's taking time to unravel and may not be clear yet.

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Khakshouri-v-Jimenez-judgment.pdf

    image
    Thanks for posting. I hadn't seen that before.
  • se9addick said:

    SDAddick said:

    Couple things:
    1) I am learning more about UK contract law than I ever wanted to know.

    2) Something I've long felt (though my opinion on this is not nearly as well informed as many on here) is that Jiminez, Cash, et al continue to get far too easy of a pass. That's not to give RD a pass by any means, but it is clear that things were very rotten in Denmark when he took over. I've seen the phrase "they did well until the money ran out" thrown around many times on here, and I've always felt that is a self-contradicting statement. If the money runs out and you're in charge, then you've failed. And that's especially true if things were as bad as GTKTN made out.

    I kind of agree, I think when the dust has settled in a few years we'll see that Roland undermined the culture of our club to the extent that it will take years to recover whereas our actual existence was far more in danger with Jimenez and Slater.
    Yes, very well and succinctly put.
  • edited June 2018
    Addickted said:

    Wouldn't it be fecking hilarious if it turns out Duchatalet doesn't actually own the Club?

    On a serious note, it’s worth remembering that Duchatelet left the purchase price on the books as debt, by taking over what the previous regime had run up. Even if he didn’t own the club (which is unlikely) his full net outlay is still represented in the books by loans owed to Staprix.
  • Addickted said:

    Cafc43v3r said:

    I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.

    Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?

    Or there could be potential additional liabilities which derive from the previous period of ownership and which Roland hadn’t discovered.

    This is my understanding and one of the main reasons Murray is hanging on for dear life.

    As Marcellus said, 'there's something rotten in the state of Denmark' and I believe it happened well before the spivs came on board.

    We're still unclear as to the reasons behind the Varney and Kavanagh departures as well as the issues with some of the ex directors.
    Some powerful words written in the statement above Nick, no wonder this takeover is dragging on longer than expected.
  • Addickted said:

    Wouldn't it be fecking hilarious if it turns out Duchatalet doesn't actually own the Club?

    On a serious note, it’s worth remembering that Duchatelet left the purchase price on the books as debt, by taking over what the previous regime had run up. Even if he didn’t own the club (which is unlikely) his full net outlay is still represented in the books by loans owed to Staprix.
    So this means the club's debt and equity is broken down as zero equity and £55M debt, on the books?
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  • cabbles said:

    cabbles said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?

    That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.

    Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.

    No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).

    If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.

    Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".

    But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.

    Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.

    Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.

    But get someone to proofread it first.

    Thanks.

    No it wasn't chizzy.

    A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland.
    Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
    I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.

    Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?

    And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.

    Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
    The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings.
    I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.

    We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
    If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
    PopIcon said:

    Scoham said:
    Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
    Why did Meire resign again?
    The bit about RD doing proper due diligence as Airman mentions above really grates me. This is a guy who runs a multimillion pound business. Imagine one of his senior management team came to him at Melexis and said I’ve bought another company or a product or done a deal without checking all the facts. He would expect said employee to take responsibility for his actions. Yet here this tool is, not taking responsibility. Utter cretin
    Less than 2% of his interest.
    He left it to incompetent people to sort it out.
    Now it's gonna bite him in the arse.
    Let’s hope so mate. I’m amazed he’s managed to get parties willing to pay £40m to be honest. It’s quite hard to stomach that given the monumental catastrophe he’s responsible for, he’s even going to recoup that much
    Let's hope it's all concluded soon.
    This thread is doing my head in.
  • OK, so we don't actually know what RD bought nore from whom.

    I have suggested before there could be a massive black hole or skeleton in the closet hanging over from the spivs, or before. Hence RM still being around and in wanting in.

    When did RD suggest that someone had taken money out of the club? I won't repeat the actual allegation.

    How many members of senior managment have left in the last ten years in circumstances that aren't "normal"?

    It all stinks tbh, how much did the spivs buy baton for? Why did they only buy 90%, how much DD did they do? Did they just take old dicky's word for it?
  • Just so I'm clear. The Aussies have taken the best part of a YEAR to get the capital together for this.
    Two major investers have walked/been refused in the past couple of weeks.
    Worry not. Within DAYS new investors have been found that can cover the missing funds?


    Time will tell but can't see it myself.

    How's the head :wink: .
  • cafc999 said:

    Maybe RD didn't do proper due diligence because one of his trusted advisors told him that everything was fine. You know, someone like a sports lawyer type of person

    Or a crazy haired child running a spreadsheet on his game boy.....hmmm....
  • cabbles said:

    cabbles said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?

    That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.

    Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.

    No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).

    If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.

    Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".

    But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.

    Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.

    Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.

    But get someone to proofread it first.

    Thanks.

    No it wasn't chizzy.

    A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland.
    Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
    I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.

    Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?

    And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.

    Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
    The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings.
    I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.

    We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
    If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
    PopIcon said:

    Scoham said:
    Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
    Why did Meire resign again?
    The bit about RD doing proper due diligence as Airman mentions above really grates me. This is a guy who runs a multimillion pound business. Imagine one of his senior management team came to him at Melexis and said I’ve bought another company or a product or done a deal without checking all the facts. He would expect said employee to take responsibility for his actions. Yet here this tool is, not taking responsibility. Utter cretin
    Less than 2% of his interest.
    He left it to incompetent people to sort it out.
    Now it's gonna bite him in the arse.
    Let’s hope so mate. I’m amazed he’s managed to get parties willing to pay £40m to be honest. It’s quite hard to stomach that given the monumental catastrophe he’s responsible for, he’s even going to recoup that much
    Parties plural?
  • JamesSeed said:

    cabbles said:

    cabbles said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?

    That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.

    Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.

    No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).

    If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.

    Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".

    But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.

    Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.

    Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.

    But get someone to proofread it first.

    Thanks.

    No it wasn't chizzy.

    A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland.
    Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
    I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.

    Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?

    And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.

    Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
    The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings.
    I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.

    We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
    If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
    PopIcon said:

    Scoham said:
    Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
    Why did Meire resign again?
    The bit about RD doing proper due diligence as Airman mentions above really grates me. This is a guy who runs a multimillion pound business. Imagine one of his senior management team came to him at Melexis and said I’ve bought another company or a product or done a deal without checking all the facts. He would expect said employee to take responsibility for his actions. Yet here this tool is, not taking responsibility. Utter cretin
    Less than 2% of his interest.
    He left it to incompetent people to sort it out.
    Now it's gonna bite him in the arse.
    Let’s hope so mate. I’m amazed he’s managed to get parties willing to pay £40m to be honest. It’s quite hard to stomach that given the monumental catastrophe he’s responsible for, he’s even going to recoup that much
    Parties plural?
    Sure its been said Saudis bib £40.5 million?
  • JamesSeed said:

    cabbles said:

    cabbles said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Chizz said:

    Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?

    That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.

    Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.

    No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).

    If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.

    Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".

    But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.

    Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.

    Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.

    But get someone to proofread it first.

    Thanks.

    No it wasn't chizzy.

    A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland.
    Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
    I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.

    Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?

    And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.

    Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
    The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings.
    I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.

    We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
    If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
    PopIcon said:

    Scoham said:
    Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
    Why did Meire resign again?
    The bit about RD doing proper due diligence as Airman mentions above really grates me. This is a guy who runs a multimillion pound business. Imagine one of his senior management team came to him at Melexis and said I’ve bought another company or a product or done a deal without checking all the facts. He would expect said employee to take responsibility for his actions. Yet here this tool is, not taking responsibility. Utter cretin
    Less than 2% of his interest.
    He left it to incompetent people to sort it out.
    Now it's gonna bite him in the arse.
    Let’s hope so mate. I’m amazed he’s managed to get parties willing to pay £40m to be honest. It’s quite hard to stomach that given the monumental catastrophe he’s responsible for, he’s even going to recoup that much
    Parties plural?
    I just mean whoever

    Honest valuation for me is about £20m. His fault he’s suffered such losses.

    As others have said, he cut his losses on this one
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!