There's no way the Aussies didn't know about the multiple ownerships rules. From what we know there were 2 issues raised by the EFL, we don't know if that was with one investor or with 2 investors. We do know from James Seed that one investor stepped out as a result and has now been replaced.
The most likely reason being that they knew about the issue, but thought it would be resolved before the fit and proper tests were completed. It wasn't resolved, and isn't going to be resolved imminently, so they stepped away from the deal. That fits all the facts we know and makes logical sense. Of course there are lots of other possibilities, but them not know about that rule seems by far the least likely, yet people keep saying it and using as some sort of stick to beat the Aussies with.
Pretty sure, but didn't hear this from GM, but from another source. I agree with Airman that it's the directors loans issue that is holding things up.
This seems madness and I struggle to believe this is an issue with serious businessmen. They are only repayable in the Prem where they will be tbe equivalent of change down the back of the sofa. Meanwhile we face another two years in L1 due to weak squad and only 40 days to re-enforce, which I am sure is not in their 5 year plan.
I guess it depends on what was offered. Using the £40m that has been banded about, if they were offered the club in full, all sold, for that sum the Aussies would fairly assume that they would own the club and there would be no charges left on it. If they got to the exchange of contracts stage and they are told they are paying £40m and there is a £7m debt still to pay that will quite rightly piss them off and lead to some renegotiation.
I wonder if Roland paid off the £7M could he then add it to the debt at 3%?
Just want this sorted now, Spivs first followed by Roland...... We deserve so much better than that, the next few days (couple of weeks) will tell. In the meantime, total support for LB and his team.
Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?
That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.
Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.
No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).
If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.
Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".
But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.
Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.
Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.
But get someone to proofread it first.
Thanks.
No it wasn't chizzy.
A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland. Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.
Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?
And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.
Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings. I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.
We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
Why did Meire resign again?
Its interesting too that Slater and Co struggled to find a buyer because of Ex Directors Loans, and then got lucky with Roland because he did his own DD, and never focused on power of those Charges. But I understand, and maybe it was you that mentioned it before ,that Ex Directors informed Meire soon after Roland's purchase about their charges and position, so why the sudden surprise? Also Murray was still on the Board and a Loan owner, so in reality Roland has been aware of Charges situation for almost 4 years. One can only surmise that Roland never saw failure /relegation as an option and therefore the question of repayment before Premier League would never come up as he would never be a forced seller. Now he is faced with reality, coughing up cash daily, that his Loans are unsecured,Ex Directors are in a far better position, and because all the buyers he has talked to want clear title, he has a £7mn problem he now has to deal with that he had never focused on.
Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?
That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.
Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.
No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).
If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.
Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".
But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.
Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.
Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.
But get someone to proofread it first.
Thanks.
No it wasn't chizzy.
A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland. Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.
Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?
And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.
Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings. I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.
We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
Why did Meire resign again?
Its interesting too that Slater and Co struggled to find a buyer because of Ex Directors Loans, and then got lucky with Roland because he did his own DD, and never focused on power of those Charges. But I understand, and maybe it was you that mentioned it before ,that Ex Directors informed Meire soon after Roland's purchase about their charges and position, so why the sudden surprise? Also Murray was still on the Board and a Loan owner, so in reality Roland has been aware of Charges situation for almost 4 years. One can only surmise that Roland never saw failure /relegation as an option and therefore the question of repayment before Premier League would never come up as he would never be a forced seller. Now he is faced with reality, coughing up cash daily, that his Loans are unsecured,Ex Directors are in a far better position, and because all the buyers he has talked to want clear title, he has a £7mn problem he now has to deal with that he had never focused on.
True about Meire but a bit of a red herring, since in 2016 Duchatelet had the conversation himself.
I think as the High Court set out the main reason Jiminez et all struggled to sell earlier was that they were offering a fanciful property play on the peninsula as part of the deal and pricing accordingly.
Who knows whether the deadline (if there was one) was missed (if it was, as rumoured, yesterday)?
That deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding. Presumably in the form of documentation to RD. But not to the media. Not via a press release. Not in a post on CL.
Whether that information was made public wouldn't be down to the Aussies. They, by word and action, have demonstrated clearly that they do indeed have the money. They've told @JamesSeed that they have replaced investor(s) that have exited the consortium. And they've continued - at significant expense - to participate in the purchase. These aren't the actions of a consortium unable to meet its financial obligations.
No, we won't be hearing from that side of the equation to confirm what they've already demonstrated. (Lewis Hamilton doesn't hold a press conference after every GP win to re-establish that yes, in fact, he does have a driving licence).
If we are going to hear anything it should come from the stumbling, bumbling wreck that's been trying to sell the club for so long. It's the owner that should confirm whether his artificial deadline was a help or a hindrance to the sales process. It is from RD that we should hear if his deadline was met.
Of course, communication isn't the arrogant thicko's best trait. (It's not his worst, but certainly isn't his best). The shady has-been's attempts at dialogue with the most important people in the club have been consistently embarrassing. From inarticulate ramblings turned into web posts to hand-picked, hidden, secret meetings with tiny groups of friendly, gullible, malleable fans, his attempts at keeping the vital congregation onside have been abject lessons in "how not to do PR".
But now, finally, the time has arrived to clear up the monumental mountain of nonsense he has created.
Roland, if you're reading this, I have two requests of you.
Please Roland, for your own sake and for everyone else's, tell us what the fucking hell is going on.
But get someone to proofread it first.
Thanks.
No it wasn't chizzy.
A lot of new info has surfaced in the last couple of days, and it's not my place to mention what it is, but you're right about the monumental mountain, but not necessarily all created by Roland. Good vibes for next week. GM's mentioning 'beer soon', which may mean good news is coming, because he's been telling me nothing (other than 'it's still on') and wouldn't meet me for a beer while deal was being done. Not that he doesn't trust me or anything ;-)
I took the piece by @Airman Brown stating "We understand that Duchatelet has set a deadline of this Friday [ie 29 June] for the Aussies to prove they have the funds" to mean what I posted.
Have I misunderstood It? Or misinterpreted it by posting "that deadline was to prove that the Aussies had funding"?
And the "monumental mountain" refers to the mess he's made of Charlton. And that very much is down to Roland, exclusively.
Good to hear that you should be having beers soon with your contact. Sounds like a binary conversation will take place..!
The monumental mountain was, according to GM, not of RDs making, but part of problem was that he didn’t even know about it. The Aussies could have walked when they found out about it. We’re lucky they didn’t, especially with no one else waiting in the wings. I’m off on the bike that I’ve had cobbled together from two other bikes I owned. Eight bikes in one house is too many apparently. I’ve only got three now which is a bit sad.
We’re all on the same side. We all want Roland gone, and I think we’re nearly there.
If RD had done proper due diligence he’d presumably have known everything. Anyone who understood Slater would have realised he was taking the piss when he praised Duchatelet for doing his own due diligence, meaning the deal could be done very quickly.
Self-indulgent nonsense. VOTV revealed what? That it was happening, that it was a done deal. Trust is earned not given, I stopped believing a long time ago.
Why did Meire resign again?
Its interesting too that Slater and Co struggled to find a buyer because of Ex Directors Loans, and then got lucky with Roland because he did his own DD, and never focused on power of those Charges. But I understand, and maybe it was you that mentioned it before ,that Ex Directors informed Meire soon after Roland's purchase about their charges and position, so why the sudden surprise? Also Murray was still on the Board and a Loan owner, so in reality Roland has been aware of Charges situation for almost 4 years. One can only surmise that Roland never saw failure /relegation as an option and therefore the question of repayment before Premier League would never come up as he would never be a forced seller. Now he is faced with reality, coughing up cash daily, that his Loans are unsecured,Ex Directors are in a far better position, and because all the buyers he has talked to want clear title, he has a £7mn problem he now has to deal with that he had never focused on.
But in 6 months time and losing £1m a month it'll be a £13m problem, you'd think he'd write it off now.
Proof of funds is a joke. Muir can afford to buy the club 10 times over and probably has £40m in his current account. He wants to spread the risk though.
I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.
Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?
We know he rushed due diligence
We know Jimenez and Cash are as bent as a nine bob note
We know Jimmy Seed was told by his contact that the issues were to do with the previous sale.
So, yes it could be likely that the Oz DD threw up things that weren't quite as they should be or quite what Duchatelet thought they were/told Muir and Co.
I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.
Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?
We know he rushed due diligence
We know Jimenez and Cash are as bent as a nine bob note
We know Jimmy Seed was told by his contact that the issues were to do with the previous sale.
So, yes it could be likely that the Oz DD threw up things that weren't quite as they should be or quite what Duchatelet thought they were/told Muir and Co.
Is it just possible that around December time something really serious turned up in the D/D ( not simply the directors loan issue) that had major implications . Particularly as our CEO and F/D both found new employment shortly thereafter?
I have asked this before but didn't get an answer.
Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?
We know he rushed due diligence
We know Jimenez and Cash are as bent as a nine bob note
We know Jimmy Seed was told by his contact that the issues were to do with the previous sale.
So, yes it could be likely that the Oz DD threw up things that weren't quite as they should be or quite what Duchatelet thought they were/told Muir and Co.
Do you think we’ll ever find out ?
I hope we don't or not at least officially because that would mean a court case or similar and that wouldn't be good for the club, possibly.
We know from the court case that involved Cash and Jimenez recently that Jimenez and Slater didn't actually own the club and even the court couldn't really decide who did...which means when it was sold to RD - who had the provenance/authority to sell!?
If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
We know from the court case that involved Cash and Jimenez recently that Jimenez and Slater didn't actually own the club and even the court couldn't really decide who did...which means when it was sold to RD - who had the provenance/authority to sell!?
My guess is that this is a major problem to overcome
If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
The court did fine on that point. It was Jimenez and Cash who couldn’t show they owned the club, which is what the case turned on. The burden of proof was on them because their control was what they had relied on in borrowing funds.
As long as Duchatelet bought Baton from the BVI holding company that owned 90 per cent of it (Murray owned 10 per cent at that stage), rather than Jimenez and Cash per se, it doesn’t matter who owned the BVI company, which is what was in question in court. The important thing is that it owned 90 per cent of Baton to sell and signed off the sale. I think!
If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
Surely, the answer to that first bit (assuming the mem and arts were bog-standard), is the directors of the company (notwithstanding who the beneficial owner is) together with whoever was authorised to sign the share transfer document (probably the company secretary). As long as the Land Registry was clear as to the name of the corporate owner of the freehold assets: sorted.
If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
Surely, the answer to that first bit (assuming the mem and arts were bog-standard), is the directors of the company (notwithstanding who the beneficial owner is) together with whoever was authorised to sign the share transfer document (probably the company secretary). As long as the Land Registry was clear as to the name of the corporate owner of the freehold assets: sorted.
The question is who was able to instruct the Bvi company officers / trustees to sell to RD. If Cash and Jimenez were not the owners, who gave instructions?
If the courts couldn’t actually un pick the tangle of concealment and decide who actually owned what. How can the sale take place. Anyone looking to spend upwards of £100 million would need to be crystal clear as to what they were buying.
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
Surely, the answer to that first bit (assuming the mem and arts were bog-standard), is the directors of the company (notwithstanding who the beneficial owner is) together with whoever was authorised to sign the share transfer document (probably the company secretary). As long as the Land Registry was clear as to the name of the corporate owner of the freehold assets: sorted.
Second paragraph: I agree with you.
Wouldn’t the BVI aspect of this muddy the water ?
In any case Airman has settled my nerves. I think
I doubt it, though I concede that I'm well out of date on this stuff. The oft-used process used to be to set up a BVI company with local nominee directors and a confidential beneficial owner. The BVI company would then become 100% owner of an Isle of Man subsidiary company and that would be used to acquire UK assets. (I don't recall that the spivs even bothered with the IoM bit.)
Anyway, I suppose if a beneficial owner of the ultimate holding company said that stuff is mine and I didn't give consent for its sale, that would be a whole can of worms that could likely only be sorted in the Courts.
Comments
Is anyone 100% sure that RD brought everything he thought he had? Could that be the unresolved issue?
The only thing that is 100% in life is death and taxes.
But I understand, and maybe it was you that mentioned it before ,that Ex Directors informed Meire soon after Roland's purchase about their charges and position, so why the sudden surprise?
Also Murray was still on the Board and a Loan owner, so in reality Roland has been aware of Charges situation for almost 4 years.
One can only surmise that Roland never saw failure /relegation as an option and therefore the question of repayment before Premier League would never come up as he would never be a forced seller.
Now he is faced with reality, coughing up cash daily, that his Loans are unsecured,Ex Directors are in a far better position, and because all the buyers he has talked to want clear title, he has a £7mn problem he now has to deal with that he had never focused on.
I think as the High Court set out the main reason Jiminez et all struggled to sell earlier was that they were offering a fanciful property play on the peninsula as part of the deal and pricing accordingly.
As Marcellus said, 'there's something rotten in the state of Denmark' and I believe it happened well before the spivs came on board.
We're still unclear as to the reasons behind the Varney and Kavanagh departures as well as the issues with some of the ex directors.
We know Jimenez and Cash are as bent as a nine bob note
We know Jimmy Seed was told by his contact that the issues were to do with the previous sale.
So, yes it could be likely that the Oz DD threw up things that weren't quite as they should be or quite what Duchatelet thought they were/told Muir and Co.
Surely you didn't mean this ?
I’m not at all sure that this will end either soon or particularly well.
As long as Duchatelet bought Baton from the BVI holding company that owned 90 per cent of it (Murray owned 10 per cent at that stage), rather than Jimenez and Cash per se, it doesn’t matter who owned the BVI company, which is what was in question in court. The important thing is that it owned 90 per cent of Baton to sell and signed off the sale. I think!
Second paragraph: I agree with you.
In any case Airman has settled my nerves. I think
Anyway, I suppose if a beneficial owner of the ultimate holding company said that stuff is mine and I didn't give consent for its sale, that would be a whole can of worms that could likely only be sorted in the Courts.