«Charlton had hoped Everton would loan Lookman back to them for the rest of the season but he is seen as someone who could quickly play a part at Goodison Park»
Another screw up - thanks Lazy Daisy - but, at least KR's got 400k to splash around... Can't believe Lookman's worth 11m when a tried and trusted international like Schneiderlin is going for 19m.. I think Everton are paying way over the odds but time will tell
I honestly don't. I think he can be a great player and they are taking a reasonable punt on that. As for the money from our perspective - it isn't about the total in many ways but what you do with it. Look what Powell did with the Jenkinson money. He nearly bought a whole new team which gained 100 plus points!
This league is crap - well i'm sorry but it is. When a team like Sheffield United, built on solid endeavour and effort is at the top it tells you what you need to know. We have more flair in our side than any other IMO but the midfield has been our major issue. The solution doesn't look like rocket science and the emergence of Aribo and Konsa makes it even easier. Of course the other issue is that we are now playing catch up, but it isn't so very far to catch up.
He's a young English player that can scores goals with either foot, wants first team football and wasn't desperate to leave at the first opportunity. There's so much money in the Prem now, £11m gets a lot less than it did when we were last playing at that level.
Do you believe this shower can persuade Everton to put £8m on the table for Lookman, when they could only get 1.5m for Gudmunsson.?
Half of that, I reckon
What I've heard from two separate sources. May or may not be true but that is what is being said.
Lookman is young, English and a goalscorer all of which bring a premium.
Don't get me wrong. I could imagine that, say Sheff Utd could sell Lookman for £8m and Gud for £5m no problem. Gomez undersold too, with a murky role of an agent ensuring there were no competitive bids.
RD wants to cash in. Instructions must be followed.
Wish I could be less cynical, but where is the evidence that anything has changed?
In reality I think the difference here is that Lookman is not 'demanding' a move, whereas Gomez agent wanted him to move to Liverpool and Gudmunnsson was never, ever, going to play in the Third Division. I don't know why Lookman is so different, but having listened to him speak at a Junior Reds function (with my son) I think he was genuinely committed to us. My best guess is that Lookman has an agent with a different attitude
It's very hard to get top price for a player when the player has let it be known that he has no intention of staying at the selling club.
Just made a small but IMO important correction for the record
I believe Gomez moved to Liverpool because he heeded advice that he would get first-team football there.
He's a young English player that can scores goals with either foot, wants first team football and wasn't desperate to leave at the first opportunity. There's so much money in the Prem now, £11m gets a lot less than it did when we were last playing at that level.
Quite but that's my point about the Gudmunsson fee.
If we really get £11m, and especially if that is as much as £8m upfront I will be pleasantly surprised, to put it mildly.
Who knows....maybe there's another club come in for him, its quite possible.
Very likely I would have thought. Two bids (Palace in the summer ) gives other clubs confidence he is the real deal and they are all scared of missing out on the next big player. £10mil is not a lot for Prem clubs.
Wasn't polish Pete attracting interest from a couple of big clubs?
I'm just wondering how much we paid for Francis Jeffers....
£2.6m
I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I seem to recall that £2.6m was the POTENTIAL fee but there was an appearance clause so the ACTUAL cost to us was around £500K.
Again we come back to what RD's end game is. Now I very much see it as minimising his losses. To get to the promised land of the Premiership will involve him spending more money than he's willing to put in.
If he's covering a loss of £1m a month, it will be very hard to envisage pumping extra money in to get us into the Prem in 2018/19 at the earliest. And considering how much money Brighton have had to spend so far and they may just get there this year, it's a bloody long and expensive road.
We also know he's frugal. In addition I think he's the sort of boss that believes in giving you a budget and you make that work. In his head he probably thinks I gave them network players, I let them sign Holmes and Magennis, that's enough, why are they coming to me for more.
There's also been an element of him not correctly dealing with why there has been so much wastage (KM's ineptness). Then there's this perverse social club fantasy he has.
In short, I think any money we get now for player sales will cover losses. He will sell up, the only question is when he realises he has to write off a huge chunk of what he's invested. Pig headedness and pride is in the way at the moment
As I understand it, and I may need to refresh my memory, whereas in the Championship RD could simply increase his loans, at this level he can only inject money in exchange for equity. If we don't get promoted this year I can't see him hanging around, but anyway if my memory serves me well there it was always likely Lookman would go in January when we could in theory get peak value for him.
As I (and it seems the Football League) understand it, that is not the case. Here's an extract of what I posted on some other thread:
"...it's called the Salary Cost Management Protocol. Specifically, and from the EFL web site: These rules require League 1 clubs to limit their spending on players’ wages to 60% of turnover plus 100% of Football Fortune income (e.g. financial donations, transfer income, revenue from cup matches), with a club relegated from the Championship being able to operate at 75% of turnover for a transitional period of one season. (My emphasis)
So, in short, if we got a random £10mn from a player sale, we could spend the lot of it on players wages (if we so wished). I'm not even sure whether any transfer fees out would come into the equation."
So, basically, it's up to the silly old sod to decide how much he wants to spend in the January sales.
Useful info. However your implied conclusion that he can spend the the lot (transfer fees) on players wages has a flaw. It would only apply to this season. So that would mean just getting in players on loans or short term contracts. Unless either 1. he sells more high value players next year; possibly Konsa and Aribo, but a gamble on his part or 2. what a serious owner would do. use part this year and use part to temporarily repay some of the loan; this should enable him to invest in future by re using the loan and turning it into equity, which I believe counts as a financial donation - or just a straight financial donation. Doing it all in one year would store him up a lot of problems for the future
I'm just wondering how much we paid for Francis Jeffers....
£2.6m
I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I seem to recall that £2.6m was the POTENTIAL fee but there was an appearance clause so the ACTUAL cost to us was around £500K.
You could well be correct. Apart from a decent sub appearance against Birmingham at The Valley, I can't remember him doing much else right. I guess that means we didn't pay any add on fees.
I'm just wondering how much we paid for Francis Jeffers....
£2.6m
I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I seem to recall that £2.6m was the POTENTIAL fee but there was an appearance clause so the ACTUAL cost to us was around £500K.
I make that just under 20%
If we got 20% now that'd be £2.2m upfront... I'd take that right now IF there were incremental payments... I'd love them to be along these lines:
Reported on another forum that an 'insider' within the club has stated that 4m will be made available to KR.
Would have thought that doubtful but we shall see.
Even if this was true are we comparing apples with pears.
£4m to spend now and in the summer. To include all transfer fees and wages over the contract period. Isn't that huge after both Lookman and Fox gone. Will need to remember that Rudd and Ulvestad loans finish in summer, probably more. Generally better value in the summer now, so isn't inconceivable that this in line with £400k on transfers now.
Reported on another forum that an 'insider' within the club has stated that 4m will be made available to KR.
Would have thought that doubtful but we shall see.
sooo .. we have a spread from 400 grand to 4 million .. as an American might say .. 'no small potatoes' .. no-one outside cloob Duchatelet knows and will probably never know .. but at the very least, it's a good laugh reading some of the experts, the pessimists and the few optimists on here .. have a nice 'window' fellow Clers and don't get too anxious or demoralised, you never know we might sign someone we've a) heard of, and b) reckon is a decent(ish) player
I'm just wondering how much we paid for Francis Jeffers....
£2.6m
I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I seem to recall that £2.6m was the POTENTIAL fee but there was an appearance clause so the ACTUAL cost to us was around £500K.
You could well be correct. Apart from a decent sub appearance against Birmingham at The Valley, I can't remember him doing much else right. I guess that means we didn't pay any add on fees.
He scored twice at The Valley against Aston Villa in the Carlton Cole 'roasting' match
The only people in a position of actually knowing exactly how much is being made available for transfers from the Lookman fee - still unknown - have declared nothing up 'til now, and it's unlikely they will do. 'Trusted sources' abound on here and and the fading 'Potential Buyers' thread; They rarely amount to much. We'll know what's happening come February when we're shivering in our plastic seats, watching a couple of strangers running about on the pitch.
KM said on Monday we spent 1m last summer, the most in league one, and she made it sound as though we should be grateful we spent that much. There is no way they are going to spend 4m this window, no way. I think the 400k bandied around much nearer the mark.
Yes, to be fair it is never a good idea to broadcast you have money to spend. I have no faith in the ownership - We have a great opportunity but we have not got a window right yet. I'll reserve judgement on this one. What I would say is I think our business should be largely done quickly if possible - we have an important game coming up next - not because it is Millwall but it would be three points that would really put us in a good position. If we win we are above them, if we lose, we are six points behind them!
£400k won't get us into the play-offs. It's a small enough number to enable Robinson to bring a couple in which is the bare minimum needed to replace Lookman and Fox without supporters clearly seeing these for what they are - profiteering to fill the budget holes at the expense of the quality of the first team. Duchatelet may well be slightly more generous in the close season if we make a fist of the last-half of this season. I honestly believe he doesn't want the cost of Championship football but knows we need to be competing in League One to ease the pressure and increase his match day incomes. What's now clear, if it wasn't before, is that Karl Robinson will know where he stands following his begging trip to Belgium - he is going to have to make-do, mend and over-perform if he's ever going to get us out of this division.
I don't believe League One is financially viable for a club of our size. Ok, we seem to have got a decent fee for Ade, but it drives down player values generally. I think Duchaetelet must know that!
Yes, to be fair it is never a good idea to broadcast you have money to spend. I have no faith in the ownership - We have a great opportunity but we have not got a window right yet. I'll reserve judgement on this one. What I would say is I think our business should be largely done quickly if possible - we have an important game coming up next - not because it is Millwall but it would be three points that would really put us in a good position. If we win we are above them, if we lose, we are six points behind them!
We should go into that game as strong as we can.
We definitely need to get players in quickly, as with the gap before the next fixture, any new signings like JFC have plenty of time to bed in to the club and system. After Millwall, the games come thick and fast and there won't be much time for training.
Reaching the Playoffs, even with the loss of Lookman, is a realistic target. We're only 5 points off them now and that's without Holmes our most creative midfielder
Solly, Tex, Bauer, Holmes and Magennis -These are players I wouldn't swap with any others at this level. There are other good players too you could make a case for. 5 players in one team who would get in any other team! We should get promotion shouldn't we?
Solly, Tex, Bauer, Holmes and Magennis -These are players I wouldn't swap with any others at this level. There are other good players too you could make a case for. 5 players in one team who would get in any other team! We should get promotion shouldn't we?
Well, yes. But as things stand, we're six wins off an automatic spot. That means winning six MORE games than either Sheff Utd or Bolton out of 21. Not impossible but highly unlikely.
That leaves the potential for a play-off spot as the aim. And, as we all know, the play-offs are a lottery.
Sorry, edited to add out of 20 games not 21, as we never get a result against you know who.
I'm just wondering how much we paid for Francis Jeffers....
£2.6m
I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong but I seem to recall that £2.6m was the POTENTIAL fee but there was an appearance clause so the ACTUAL cost to us was around £500K.
You could well be correct. Apart from a decent sub appearance against Birmingham at The Valley, I can't remember him doing much else right. I guess that means we didn't pay any add on fees.
He scored twice at The Valley against Aston Villa in the Carlton Cole 'roasting' match
Ahh I was at that game, though I think I was more amused at the stick Cole was taking than anything else that was happening. I definitely don't remember Jeffers scoring the goals.
Comments
This league is crap - well i'm sorry but it is. When a team like Sheffield United, built on solid endeavour and effort is at the top it tells you what you need to know. We have more flair in our side than any other IMO but the midfield has been our major issue. The solution doesn't look like rocket science and the emergence of Aribo and Konsa makes it even easier. Of course the other issue is that we are now playing catch up, but it isn't so very far to catch up.
If we really get £11m, and especially if that is as much as £8m upfront I will be pleasantly surprised, to put it mildly.
1. he sells more high value players next year; possibly Konsa and Aribo, but a gamble on his part or
2. what a serious owner would do. use part this year and use part to temporarily repay some of the loan; this should enable him to invest in future by re using the loan and turning it into equity, which I believe counts as a financial donation - or just a straight financial donation. Doing it all in one year would store him up a lot of problems for the future
Would have thought that doubtful but we shall see.
If we got 20% now that'd be £2.2m upfront... I'd take that right now IF there were incremental payments... I'd love them to be along these lines:
(a) First sub appearance £800k,
(b) First full debut £1m or £1.8m if before (a)
(c) Appearance payments:
10 appearances £1m
20 appearances £1m
40 appearances £1m
100 appearances £2m
(d) First England senior call up £1m
I'd also add this to it:
(e) 15% sell on fee.
But I am a realist so it's likely:
£1m Up front plus Everton win the EPL £10m
£4m to spend now and in the summer. To include all transfer fees and wages over the contract period. Isn't that huge after both Lookman and Fox gone. Will need to remember that Rudd and Ulvestad loans finish in summer, probably more. Generally better value in the summer now, so isn't inconceivable that this in line with £400k on transfers now.
no-one outside cloob Duchatelet knows and will probably never know .. but at the very least, it's a good laugh reading some of the experts, the pessimists and the few optimists on here ..
have a nice 'window' fellow Clers and don't get too anxious or demoralised, you never know we might sign someone we've a) heard of, and b) reckon is a decent(ish) player
'Trusted sources' abound on here and and the fading 'Potential Buyers' thread; They rarely amount to much.
We'll know what's happening come February when we're shivering in our plastic seats, watching a couple of strangers running about on the pitch.
We should go into that game as strong as we can.
Reaching the Playoffs, even with the loss of Lookman, is a realistic target. We're only 5 points off them now and that's without Holmes our most creative midfielder
That leaves the potential for a play-off spot as the aim. And, as we all know, the play-offs are a lottery.
Sorry, edited to add out of 20 games not 21, as we never get a result against you know who.