The podcasts did not make me angry as I was expecting most of it. Duchatelet's latest comments, however - I am seething!! The translation of the emails above is spot-on. There is also a nonsense paragraph in the article that says in the first weeks after the takeover, Powell rarely answered Duchatelet's telephone calls and that explains why he was forced to write emails. What a load of ballcocks!!
Here is what Powell said about the relationship in the Trust interview in Feb 2015:
“Within a week, after my first meeting at the Valley, I knew I wouldn’t be there too long and I knew exactly what was going to happen in regards to people like Yann, Dale and a few others and what he was going to do. It wasn’t just what he was telling me. I had a press conference where he said I was a good coach. Well, I was arguing with him just an hour before – about Charlton – I was saying to him, you can’t do that, you cannot do what you are planning to do with this club. It’s not right, it’s not fair, let’s not string people along.”
Powell describes his first meeting with Duchâtelet, at which Tony Jiminez was also present. The omens were not good – Powell was ill the night before, and had to pull over on his way to The Valley to be physically sick. The Belgian businessman arrived with strong ideas about the playing squad, while Jiminez, keen to ensure the deal was quickly done and dusted, sided with the new man’s opinions rather than supporting his manager. “We had the nonsense with the goalkeepers. Ben Alnwick had come in and was outstanding with Ben Hamer being out. He (Roland) said Ben Hamer is not good, Ben Alnwick is not good. I’ve got a goalkeeper who’s better than both. I said, who is it, I need to know. Then it was always, oh he’s better, he’s this, he’s that. I said I need to choose who’s right, for this division and this league.”
Clearly there was intransigence on both sides of the table, but Powell is not at all bitter in what he is describing, just deeply disappointed at the gulf in football philosophy. He is a manager who takes full responsibility for putting together his own squad, yet he was faced with the complete opposite, “I’d be in my office and there’s a player turning up downstairs with his suitcase, saying he’s come to play. Who is it? It’s Loic Nego, it’s Anil Koç. I don’t even know who they are. ‘We’ve been told you need a winger’ – yeah, but I need a winger who’s used to the Championship, and you’ve got a young boy who’s played three games for Standard off the bench. I mean, that’s not for Charlton. Charlton deserve a player who’s going to improve them.” He was clearly very frustrated at the lack of understanding of the strengths of the existing squad, “He’d say you need a right back, I’d say we’ve got Chris Solly. If he’s better than Chris Solly, going to be some player! Nego came in, played against Wigan, clearly not suited. (Roland) said, well he can play left back. I said, well I’ve got Rhoys Wiggins, and Ceddy Evina who can fill in, fine you’re not going to have two top drawer – we’re not Chelsea or Man City, but you need players who are able to play at the level. I just knew that whenever there was a time that I didn’t play them, I was going to be in trouble.”
Powell explains how he tried hard to make the relationship work, "I was very open with them at the start – I said to Roland, I will come over and I will meet you, and you can tell me exactly what your plans are. I held my hand out, extended friendship to say welcome to South East London. I will tell you exactly what the Club’s about, what’s gone great, what hasn’t.” But Duchâtelet did not want Powell to go to Belgium. “I said to him re-sign Yann, it’s a no-brainer, he said ‘NO – I don’t think he’s good enough, we’ve got better strikers’ – and now, I know Charlton are looking for a physical striker. We had one – he didn’t want to leave. It was the same with Dale. I know this league - of course, I’m not going to get everything right, will get a few things wrong, which I did at Charlton, which I will here. But I know what it takes in this league. I think anyone in any walk of life if they’re doing a job and someone tells them they are doing it all wrong, when they have no experience of it, that’s pretty hard to take.”
So as well as lecturing Chrissy about formations he was trying to tell him about left backs! Is there any end to this man's arrogance?
A guy on Reddit seems to have done a pretty good job of translating, makes even worse reading though...
So you're mainly interested in the quotes right? Not the entire article?
“De e-mails zijn authentiek en werden dus door Powell gelekt. Powell stond op dat moment ongeveer laatste. Blijkbaar vindt hij het ongehoord dat de baas van een club die laatste staat goede raad geeft aan zijn coach.” "The emails are authentic, and so were leaked by Powell. Powell was practically in last place at that time. Apparently he thinks it's unheard of that the boss of a last-place club give his coach sound advice.
“Als je de mails leest, gaat het enkel om raad en valt er nergens een verplichting te bespeuren. We hebben uiteindelijk Powell vroegtijdig laten gaan. José Riga haalde daarna onmiddellijk met die zogenaamd slechte spelers van het netwerk een gemiddelde van 1,5 punt per match. Powell haalde voordien minder dan 1 punt per wedstrijd. Meer dan 50 procent beter dus met slechtere spelers.” "When you read the mails, you find they only contain advice and no trace of obligations. In the end we let Powell go early. After that, José Riga immediately took the presumably bad players [from the network] and averaged 1.5 points per match. Before that, Powell had less than 1. So that's an improvement of more than 50% with worse players"
“De club was gered. De normale fans vinden ook nu nog dat we dat toen goed gedaan hebben”, So the club was saved. The regular fans, even today, still think that we did a good job.
He said - "I'm not entirely sure about a few things, mainly because of context. Especially the thing about the network. I think he's talking about players that were ranked lowly by the press?" but actually think he got that part bang on.
I think most of us have been given what the boss sees as "sound advice" rather than a direct order (or "obligation[s]"), at some point. We know exactly how it works, you take the "sound advice" or you find yourself out the door, which is exactly what happened. Who does RD think he is trying to kid?
The outcome was as bad as expected. Evidently RD has put his foot in it talking about the supporters without liaising with his comms team first. Lets break it down shall we.
"The emails are authentic, and so were leaked by Powell." As @LouisMend mentioned already these were not leaked by SCP. For RD it's the obvious assumption to make, but I suspect given that he has previously referred to the protesters as bitter ex employees this is an attempt to defame him. In reality SCP is one of the most respected men in English football, among players, staff and supporters. This may convince a layman Belgian reader, but it won't fool the English press, or supporters.
"Powell was practically in last place at that time." As @Weegie Addick pointed out when both emails were sent we were in 21st, just inside the relegation zone. 2 points off of Millwall in 20th and with a game in hand.
"Apparently he thinks it's unheard of that the boss of a last-place club give his coach sound advice. When you read the mails, you find they only contain advice and no trace of obligations. In the end we let Powell go early. I'm not ignorant to the fact that this happens across football at all levels. What RD failed to understand was that Charlton had a long established philosophy which was to allow the manager to get on with running the team, and the directors would focus on the backroom issues. Varney as much as confirmed this in the podcast, and when we were in the PL under Curbs it was much revered across English football clubs, especially those of a similar stature.
"After that, José Riga immediately took the presumably bad players [from the network] and averaged 1.5 points per match. Before that, Powell had less than 1. So that's an improvement of more than 50% with worse players" It's a fair point, but SCP had had undoubted success with that crop of players. Matching the record League 1 points total, finishing 9th in the Championship with a depleted squad. I'm grateful for what Riga achieved in his first stint with the club, but I truly believe SCP could have achieved the same thing.
"So the club was saved." Saved from what exactly? Two years later we experienced the exact fate that RD has supposedly saved us from. And I thought he didn't do failure?
"The regular fans, even today, still think that we did a good job." 88% of fans support the current protests trying to eradicate RD, a man who believes that even today regular fans still think they did a good job. My question to RD would be, does that make the rest of us irregular fans?
Roland can afford the best of everything. If he required a life saving operation he could employ:-
A surgeon who has completed 667 operations - a man so admired that he was asked to represent his country five times at international meetings. The same man that then earned the respect of his peers, and was duly elected to represent them in his professional association for five years. A man that then moved into teaching where he served his apprenticeship under the most revered of fellows. A man that later set up on his own and continued to be successful.
… Or, select a confident younger guy, who has gained his knowledge from the comfort of his own bedroom by watching Holby City, House, Casualty, Grey’s Anatomy and Scrubs.
Roland is a wise man (we are told), he does not do failure, he’d make the right choice.
Roland can afford the best of everything. If he required a life saving operation he could employ:-
A surgeon who has completed 667 operations - a man so admired that he was asked to represent his country five times at international meetings. The same man that then earned the respect of his peers, and was duly elected to represent them in his professional association for five years. A man that then moved into teaching where he served his apprenticeship under the most revered of fellows. A man that later set up on his own and continued to be successful.
… Or, select a confident younger guy, who has gained his knowledge from the comfort of his own bedroom by watching Holby City, House, Casualty, Grey’s Anatomy and Scrubs.
Or he could just hire me. I was very good at game operation the patient with the red nose.
Table before Riga's first game (includes fixtures 11/3/14 after Powell was sacked. Charlton drew 0-0 with Huddersfield on 12/3/14):
Riga started with five games in hand on Doncaster, who went down with Yeovil and Barnsley (four each).
Significantly, all the teams eventually relegated had already played 18 home matches, whereas Charlton had played 14. In effect, four of the four/five games Charlton had in hand were at home.
It was always likely that Charlton would overhaul a two-point margin on Yeovil and Barnsley over four home matches. It was also likely they would overhaul Millwall, on whom they also had five games in hand, and they did. The only surprise was that Doncaster went down instead.
Table before Riga's first game (includes fixtures 11/3/14 after Powell was sacked. Charlton drew 0-0 with Huddersfield on 12/3/14):
Riga's team had five games in hand in Doncaster, who went down with Yeovil and Barnsley (four each).
Ductapalape is also failing to take into account the remaining spirit of the core that was JJ, Morro, Hamer, Wilson, Church, Hughes etc. They were all still a unit with the additions of Adjarevic.
Table before Riga's first game (includes fixtures 11/3/14 after Powell was sacked. Charlton drew 0-0 with Huddersfield on 12/3/14):
Riga's team had five games in hand in Doncaster, who went down with Yeovil and Barnsley (four each).
Ductapalape is also failing to take into account the remaining spirit of the core that was JJ, Morro, Hamer, Wilson, Church, Hughes etc. They were all still a unit with the additions of Adjarevic.
That spirit was key
That's what he didn't understand and probably still doesn't.
Table before Riga's first game (includes fixtures 11/3/14 after Powell was sacked. Charlton drew 0-0 with Huddersfield on 12/3/14):
Riga's team had five games in hand in Doncaster, who went down with Yeovil and Barnsley (four each).
Ductapalape is also failing to take into account the remaining spirit of the core that was JJ, Morro, Hamer, Wilson, Church, Hughes etc. They were all still a unit with the additions of Adjarevic.
That spirit was key
That's what he didn't understand and probably still doesn't.
Driesen's lack of contact in the dressing room meant that didn't filter through to Roland
After Charltons previous league game before Doncaster (the 1-0 Thuram loss at Boro *258 away fans*) we were 4th bottom with a game in hand after the 3-0 loss at Donny *448 away fans* we were 3rd bottom with a game or two in hand over a couple of clubs above us
Riga got 24 points from his 16 games in charge
SCP got 26 points from the last 16 games of the previous season
We also had a new player in midfield called Diego Poyet so changed the way we played.
What I object to are not just the lies but the arrogance that goes with the lies. Meire and RD think they can lie with impunity and we will just accept their lies as truths. Some people like Colin and Perks etc are so entrenched in their position as Ostrich's that they will accept everything that Meire and RD come out with. Never mind though they have learned from their mistakes.
A guy on Reddit seems to have done a pretty good job of translating, makes even worse reading though...
So you're mainly interested in the quotes right? Not the entire article?
“De e-mails zijn authentiek en werden dus door Powell gelekt. Powell stond op dat moment ongeveer laatste. Blijkbaar vindt hij het ongehoord dat de baas van een club die laatste staat goede raad geeft aan zijn coach.” "The emails are authentic, and so were leaked by Powell. Powell was practically in last place at that time. Apparently he thinks it's unheard of that the boss of a last-place club give his coach sound advice.
“Als je de mails leest, gaat het enkel om raad en valt er nergens een verplichting te bespeuren. We hebben uiteindelijk Powell vroegtijdig laten gaan. José Riga haalde daarna onmiddellijk met die zogenaamd slechte spelers van het netwerk een gemiddelde van 1,5 punt per match. Powell haalde voordien minder dan 1 punt per wedstrijd. Meer dan 50 procent beter dus met slechtere spelers.” "When you read the mails, you find they only contain advice and no trace of obligations. In the end we let Powell go early. After that, José Riga immediately took the presumably bad players [from the network] and averaged 1.5 points per match. Before that, Powell had less than 1. So that's an improvement of more than 50% with worse players"
“De club was gered. De normale fans vinden ook nu nog dat we dat toen goed gedaan hebben”, So the club was saved. The regular fans, even today, still think that we did a good job.
He said - "I'm not entirely sure about a few things, mainly because of context. Especially the thing about the network. I think he's talking about players that were ranked lowly by the press?" but actually think he got that part bang on.
The crazy old fool. And then with only the 'quality' players that they are bringing into the club now, we were relegated. Roland, if you are going to make silly assertions then you need the results to back them up.
Truth is, we will never know how we would have finished the season with Powell in charge and without you undermining him. What is a fact though is that under Powell's stewardship, we won the League One title with over 100 points and then finished ninth in the Championship the following year with little or no player budget. What is also fact is that when we did things your way we were relegated back to League One and played in front of the smallest crowds at The Valley in many years.
You can go cherry picking 'points per game' ratios at some random point in the season of your choosing all you like but on every important measure you are an utter failure.
At the end of that particular season, it might have been a valid point that Riga did better with the same team. I don't agree with it, but the points-per-game stat is a pretty valid way of backing up that argument.
With the couple of seasons we've had in-between then and now - it's not at all valid. That's what irritates me about it, clinging to that semi-truth from a while ago to dismiss the horrendous situation we're in now.
It was probably a valid point about Riga turning things around to a certain extent and, no matter how much we speculate, we will never know if Powell would have managed the same points tally. And at that point all fans, regular and irregular were happy with Jose, even to the point of singing his name, and everything looked good. But what happened then Roland you senile old twat? Oh yeah, you sacked him and brought in the mighty Bob "youth team" Peeters.
As Duchatelet is defaming Chris Powell, would he sue?
I'd imagine that the advice to CP would be similar to that given to PV about Katrien's lies. The defamation is clear but the culprit is so discredited that it would be impossible to show any reputational damage suffered by the plaintiff.
In layman's terms: if you're slagged off by an idiot, nobody else thinks any the less of you.
The podcasts did not make me angry as I was expecting most of it. Duchatelet's latest comments, however - I am seething!! The translation of the emails above is spot-on. There is also a nonsense paragraph in the article that says in the first weeks after the takeover, Powell rarely answered Duchatelet's telephone calls and that explains why he was forced to write emails. What a load of ballcocks!!
Here is what Powell said about the relationship in the Trust interview in Feb 2015:
“Within a week, after my first meeting at the Valley, I knew I wouldn’t be there too long and I knew exactly what was going to happen in regards to people like Yann, Dale and a few others and what he was going to do. It wasn’t just what he was telling me. I had a press conference where he said I was a good coach. Well, I was arguing with him just an hour before – about Charlton – I was saying to him, you can’t do that, you cannot do what you are planning to do with this club. It’s not right, it’s not fair, let’s not string people along.”
Powell describes his first meeting with Duchâtelet, at which Tony Jiminez was also present. The omens were not good – Powell was ill the night before, and had to pull over on his way to The Valley to be physically sick. The Belgian businessman arrived with strong ideas about the playing squad, while Jiminez, keen to ensure the deal was quickly done and dusted, sided with the new man’s opinions rather than supporting his manager. “We had the nonsense with the goalkeepers. Ben Alnwick had come in and was outstanding with Ben Hamer being out. He (Roland) said Ben Hamer is not good, Ben Alnwick is not good. I’ve got a goalkeeper who’s better than both. I said, who is it, I need to know. Then it was always, oh he’s better, he’s this, he’s that. I said I need to choose who’s right, for this division and this league.”
Clearly there was intransigence on both sides of the table, but Powell is not at all bitter in what he is describing, just deeply disappointed at the gulf in football philosophy. He is a manager who takes full responsibility for putting together his own squad, yet he was faced with the complete opposite, “I’d be in my office and there’s a player turning up downstairs with his suitcase, saying he’s come to play. Who is it? It’s Loic Nego, it’s Anil Koç. I don’t even know who they are. ‘We’ve been told you need a winger’ – yeah, but I need a winger who’s used to the Championship, and you’ve got a young boy who’s played three games for Standard off the bench. I mean, that’s not for Charlton. Charlton deserve a player who’s going to improve them.” He was clearly very frustrated at the lack of understanding of the strengths of the existing squad, “He’d say you need a right back, I’d say we’ve got Chris Solly. If he’s better than Chris Solly, going to be some player! Nego came in, played against Wigan, clearly not suited. (Roland) said, well he can play left back. I said, well I’ve got Rhoys Wiggins, and Ceddy Evina who can fill in, fine you’re not going to have two top drawer – we’re not Chelsea or Man City, but you need players who are able to play at the level. I just knew that whenever there was a time that I didn’t play them, I was going to be in trouble.”
Powell explains how he tried hard to make the relationship work, "I was very open with them at the start – I said to Roland, I will come over and I will meet you, and you can tell me exactly what your plans are. I held my hand out, extended friendship to say welcome to South East London. I will tell you exactly what the Club’s about, what’s gone great, what hasn’t.” But Duchâtelet did not want Powell to go to Belgium. “I said to him re-sign Yann, it’s a no-brainer, he said ‘NO – I don’t think he’s good enough, we’ve got better strikers’ – and now, I know Charlton are looking for a physical striker. We had one – he didn’t want to leave. It was the same with Dale. I know this league - of course, I’m not going to get everything right, will get a few things wrong, which I did at Charlton, which I will here. But I know what it takes in this league. I think anyone in any walk of life if they’re doing a job and someone tells them they are doing it all wrong, when they have no experience of it, that’s pretty hard to take.”
As Duchatelet is defaming Chris Powell, would he sue?
I'd imagine that the advice to CP would be similar to that given to PV about Katrien's lies. The defamation is clear but the culprit is so discredited that it would be impossible to show any reputational damage suffered by the plaintiff.
In layman's terms: if you're slagged off by an idiot, nobody else thinks any the less of you.
But that opinion was about PV's reputation with Charlton fans, wasn't it? Saying Powell leaked the emails might affect his ability to get a job in future, because other clubs might question his trustworthiness and discretion.
Comments
Hopefully covered in episode 3 or 4.
The outcome was as bad as expected. Evidently RD has put his foot in it talking about the supporters without liaising with his comms team first. Lets break it down shall we.
"The emails are authentic, and so were leaked by Powell."
As @LouisMend mentioned already these were not leaked by SCP. For RD it's the obvious assumption to make, but I suspect given that he has previously referred to the protesters as bitter ex employees this is an attempt to defame him. In reality SCP is one of the most respected men in English football, among players, staff and supporters. This may convince a layman Belgian reader, but it won't fool the English press, or supporters.
"Powell was practically in last place at that time."
As @Weegie Addick pointed out when both emails were sent we were in 21st, just inside the relegation zone. 2 points off of Millwall in 20th and with a game in hand.
- Championship Table on 28th Jan
- Championship Table on 30th Jan
"Apparently he thinks it's unheard of that the boss of a last-place club give his coach sound advice. When you read the mails, you find they only contain advice and no trace of obligations. In the end we let Powell go early.
I'm not ignorant to the fact that this happens across football at all levels. What RD failed to understand was that Charlton had a long established philosophy which was to allow the manager to get on with running the team, and the directors would focus on the backroom issues. Varney as much as confirmed this in the podcast, and when we were in the PL under Curbs it was much revered across English football clubs, especially those of a similar stature.
"After that, José Riga immediately took the presumably bad players [from the network] and averaged 1.5 points per match. Before that, Powell had less than 1. So that's an improvement of more than 50% with worse players"
It's a fair point, but SCP had had undoubted success with that crop of players. Matching the record League 1 points total, finishing 9th in the Championship with a depleted squad. I'm grateful for what Riga achieved in his first stint with the club, but I truly believe SCP could have achieved the same thing.
"So the club was saved."
Saved from what exactly? Two years later we experienced the exact fate that RD has supposedly saved us from. And I thought he didn't do failure?
"The regular fans, even today, still think that we did a good job."
88% of fans support the current protests trying to eradicate RD, a man who believes that even today regular fans still think they did a good job. My question to RD would be, does that make the rest of us irregular fans?
I'm sure by irregular, he just means unique.
Riga started with five games in hand on Doncaster, who went down with Yeovil and Barnsley (four each).
Significantly, all the teams eventually relegated had already played 18 home matches, whereas Charlton had played 14. In effect, four of the four/five games Charlton had in hand were at home.
It was always likely that Charlton would overhaul a two-point margin on Yeovil and Barnsley over four home matches. It was also likely they would overhaul Millwall, on whom they also had five games in hand, and they did. The only surprise was that Doncaster went down instead.
That spirit was key
Duchatelet I would not piss on you if you were on fire...
Should I just wait for the last episode to out and gouge on the lot box set style?
He didn't come from the network.
In layman's terms: if you're slagged off by an idiot, nobody else thinks any the less of you.
I would be happy to piss on him if he wasn't on fire
Unbelievable.
Roland has truly screwed with Charlton.
Complete wanker.