Rather than just say - we have made mistakes - they might ask supporters what mistakes we think they have made. There is an important but subtle difference. The truth is they are not really interested - it is just a throw away line.
Have no doubt that CARD considered all their options before issuing the response to the invitation but my only thought is did they consider saying they would accept on the proviso that RD attended the meeting?
I think the Trust have tried and exhausted that route already.
While I'll never say never to meetings, I agree with CARD in this case. What is there to discuss? The club keep saying they have learnt, will change, but nothing happens to demonstrate that.
If they really want to have a constructive relationship with the large segment of the fans who have become disillusioned with their leadership, they should just keep quiet and execute a plan to turn this around without contstant spin.
Perform basic stadium maintenance, complete the Acadamy, deliver tickets on time, appoint a truly independent Director of Football, give him a budget and let him run the club.
They know what the problems are - fix them. Don't tell us what you want to do/plan to do/hope to do, just do it.
When people see real change, not just talk about how they would like to change, maybe there will be a thaw in relations.
Until then, they have zero credibility in many people's eyes, so what is there to talk about.
what do this regime have to do to satisfy the majority of the supporters?
CARDites will say leave, go, buzz off.
How many CARDites are there is it the infamous 2% or is it 10, 20, 30.....also CARDites come in various shades of black from those who will not enter the Valley to those who wear the T shirt but drink and eat at the club outlets.
Many other supporters will say that the regime have given us what we requested in an English manager and an Englishish team but a pity that they aren't doing very well.
I have never met RD or KM but from what I have read and seen they seem to be obdurate and won't be leaving soon unless someone offers £50+ million - in you dreams, so we are stuck with them and by protesting we might just make them more stubborn, so what do they have to do to turn the support around if they don't go: Talk to the fans - they do that in a limited way Work with the fans - no they don't do that Be honest - but how do they prove that in the short term
From where I stand a long way from the Valley and out of earshot of the gossip it seems that there has to be a middle way and maybe, just maybe CARD should meet with the SMT and hear what they have to say, even if the invite was a publicity stunt why not reverse the stunt, turn up, say nowt but listen and then react to what is heard.
and yes I do broadly support CARD and no I won't be there on Saturday as I'm trying to move house
The SMT need to be accountable for their actions or, to be more accurate, their non-actions.
That has not happened once in all the time they have been here.
Responsible management takes responsibility and makes itself accountable.
Weak management blames others or events, repeats the same errors time and time again, refuses to recognise mistakes until it is too late, then does not specify exactly which remedies will be put in place to achieve their (vague) objectives.
what do this regime have to do to satisfy the majority of the supporters?
CARDites will say leave, go, buzz off.
How many CARDites are there is it the infamous 2% or is it 10, 20, 30.....also CARDites come in various shades of black from those who will not enter the Valley to those who wear the T shirt but drink and eat at the club outlets.
Many other supporters will say that the regime have given us what we requested in an English manager and an Englishish team but a pity that they aren't doing very well.
I have never met RD or KM but from what I have read and seen they seem to be obdurate and won't be leaving soon unless someone offers £50+ million - in you dreams, so we are stuck with them and by protesting we might just make them more stubborn, so what do they have to do to turn the support around if they don't go: Talk to the fans - they do that in a limited way Work with the fans - no they don't do that Be honest - but how do they prove that in the short term
From where I stand a long way from the Valley and out of earshot of the gossip it seems that there has to be a middle way and maybe, just maybe CARD should meet with the SMT and hear what they have to say, even if the invite was a publicity stunt why not reverse the stunt, turn up, say nowt but listen and then react to what is heard.
and yes I do broadly support CARD and no I won't be there on Saturday as I'm trying to move house
I really don't think too "many other supporters will say that the regime have given us what we requested in an English manager and an Englishish team". I don't know many other Addicks where that was the limit of their ambition. I think most wanted those things, but part of a wider raft of changes to address the overall decline of our club, on and off the pitch. The truth of the matter is that the changes that have been have completely failed because the underlying fact that the "SMT" are completely and demonstrably incompetent remains the case.
I don't even think it was those things specifically that most people wanted. And it could be said there's a hint of xenophobia about those wishes, which I'm sure is not the case.
What was needed was a manager who knew the league and what's needed to get out of it in the right direction (likely but not necessarily an English manager) and not English players per se, but players of a decent enough standard to play in league one/the championship, not the endless parade of network shite that Driesen's spreadsheet dictated.
On the whole the player recruitment in the summer was not bad, except for the fatal gap in midfield, which has undermined the chances of the players who have come in. As for the manager, well... But as has been said on here many times, what sort of self-respecting manager is going to want to come to a shitshow like Charlton?
What about CARD offering to meet with just Roland after the Cov game, Insisting that Meire is not there?
a) it would never happen, you might as well ask for £10m and a helicopter b) even if it did, what could we (realistically) say to him or him to us that would change anything ?
A earlier comment is worth emphasizing- they have admitted making mistakes. Tell us what those mistakes were, It would be interesting to hear the answers.
Most of us would class a major mistake of last season was having a very unbalanced squad. But how can this mistake have been learned when they made the same mistake this season? And fans were calling for a manager who knew the league - not necessarily an English one as has been said.
I don't recall fans clamouring for Russell Slade to be given the job, but we were willing to give him a chance. Checking on my posts on his appointment, you would find my concerns about his negativity and in game tactics. Concerns that have come to fruition. His appointment was not our mistake, but their mistake.
Fans knew that we were exposed in midfield, We were all shouting it from the rooftops. Slade called for patience - quite rudely I might add - and what did patience bring us.
Why the hell should anybody talk to this shower. If they want to turn this round, they have to start running the club properly. It won't happen overnight, but fans are fickle enough to change their views when they see right decisions being made instead of wrong ones. But how can we expect right decisions from this mob? I won't be holding my breath. If the owner doesn't want to sell, they have to hold their breath and start doing things right. Some chance of that! The CEO declaring war on the fans has to be one of the most inept management decisions in the history of football CEOs.
And it isn't my money but you only have to look at a couple of key facts. Firstly JBG is the only player this mob have bought who they have sold for more money. Considering the numbers of players brought into the club, that is damning. Secondly, we are in league one hemouraging money and we are subsidising our own players to play for other clubs. We have two players on the payroll, one of which is a centre half who can play at the top of the league above, the other, whilst being no World beater, has attributes that that the midfield sorely lacks, and we don't play them. The SMT will point to the money they are spending, but they are wasting it. learning from their mistakes - my arse!
No, I am not really interested in hearing what they have to say. They have to start pulling their finger out and slowly building the trust. I honestly believe it is beyond them and they need to sell, but if they think they can do it, they need to stop playing games and get on with it!
That is the biggest mistake. KM alienating the fans. It was not her mistake at the time she believed we were to be ignored and insulted. She cannot and should not be allowed to recover from that. Roland's mistake is leaving her there.
A earlier comment is worth emphasizing- they have admitted making mistakes. Tell us what those mistakes were, It would be interesting to hear the answers.
Exactly right. The closest they have come was to use broad terms like 'recruitment and managers'.
Yeah, but what exactly?
How were we allowed to have a string of dreadful mangers and players, a threadbare squad and no back-room? What set of circumstances led that to happen? What has specifically been learnt/altered to improve things?
Amongst many deeper problems, I would suggest that the biggest day-to-day problem last season was paucity in terms of squad depth - with over-reliance on kids, and later in the season, journeyman freebees and loans.
Do we have sufficient squad depth this season? Are we no longer relying on kids? Have we reduced the free journeymen and loans in the first-team? Are we beating the, let's face it, cack teams in this league?
For some reason we keep hearing that the fans wanted a British manager and players, and now we have got one and some players, we are getting what we wanted and a new start, and ergo mistakes have been learned from. I don't remember a clamour for British players particularly, or a British manager, we wanted credible players and a credible manager. Yann was well regarded and he is a Breton. The real issue, which was fully mentioned at the time, was that from March this year, when it was almost certain we were down, we should have planned for the current season. Instead we had loads of fart arseing around, not least getting a manager followed by more foot dragging delay which Slade told us to be patient during. The innocence with which Slade thought the club trip to Austria would reset all the problems was ill judged and the current crap is simply down to poor preparation by an incompetent regime repeating all the old mistakes.
For some reason we keep hearing that the fans wanted a British manager and players, and now we have got one and some players, we are getting what we wanted and a new start, and ergo mistakes have been learned from. I don't remember a clamour for British players particularly, or a British manager, we wanted credible players and a credible manager. Yann was well regarded and he is a Breton. The real issue, which was fully mentioned at the time, was that from March this year, when it was almost certain we were down, we should have planned for the current season. Instead we had loads of fart arseing around, not least getting a manager followed by more foot dragging delay which Slade told us to be patient during. The innocence with which Slade thought the club trip to Austria would reset all the problems was ill judged and the current crap is simply down to poor preparation by an incompetent regime repeating all the old mistakes.
I agree with you Seth. I would not want it to become received wisdom that we all wanted british players as the regime might wrongly use that to accuse us of being little Englanders and resistant to their incompetence on purely nationalistic lines. As you say, we had and still have some very decent players who are not British. The problem was the network signings. They were inadequate because they were network signings, and they were, Watt aside, foreign because they were network signings. They were not inadequate because they were foreign.
I get what you mean about received wisdom. It is like we all wanted Curbishley out. I have yet to meet a fan who wanted him out. I remember one of the most moving moments I have experienced in football, when the whole Valley stood up to give him a poignant and long round of applause during and after the game. I don't mind saying I shed a tear or two. I remember Mark Hughes joining us from outside his dugout. Match of the day didn't even think it worthy of 30 seconds of their programme that day, but they often comment on how Charlton fans wanted him out!
MAy as well go all the way and admit to wanting curbs out. He stayed about 5 years too long (similar to his good mate Fergie). Boring boring football. 6 in defence, with solid 4 in midfield as soon as we lost the ball. Yes premier league, but that wasn't football!
MAy as well go all the way and admit to wanting curbs out. He stayed about 5 years too long (similar to his good mate Fergie). Boring boring football. 6 in defence, with solid 4 in midfield as soon as we lost the ball. Yes premier league, but that wasn't football!
That's what we are playing now, but two leagues (divisions in my day) lower :-)
MAy as well go all the way and admit to wanting curbs out. He stayed about 5 years too long (similar to his good mate Fergie). Boring boring football. 6 in defence, with solid 4 in midfield as soon as we lost the ball. Yes premier league, but that wasn't football!
If CARD wants to sit down with Katrien or Rolland it isn't a problem we have there home addresses, perhaps pop in for a cup of tea?
Probably best to take the stance of SELL THE CLUB though, apparently they don't like guests rocking up at there houses.
Seems to me that turning up at someone's parents house is creepy and intimidating and just doesn't help in anyway to achieve what I hope is everyone on here's ultimate goal to get our Club out of the miserable place it is currently in.
MAy as well go all the way and admit to wanting curbs out. He stayed about 5 years too long (similar to his good mate Fergie). Boring boring football. 6 in defence, with solid 4 in midfield as soon as we lost the ball. Yes premier league, but that wasn't football!
End of 2003, we'd done the double over Chelsea again and the double over Spurs again. Then Parker walked. Curbs announced he was leaving 28 months later. January to May was always a bit painful under Curbs, but I don't think slowly drifting down to 7th or 10th or 12th was all that bad, personally. Calling it 5 years of outstaying his welcome is impressive revisionism. I would have loved to have seen what Curbs would have done with the Dowie/Pardew budgets.
If CARD wants to sit down with Katrien or Rolland it isn't a problem we have there home addresses, perhaps pop in for a cup of tea?
Probably best to take the stance of SELL THE CLUB though, apparently they don't like guests rocking up at there houses.
Seems to me that turning up at someone's parents house is creepy and intimidating and just doesn't help in anyway to achieve what I hope is everyone on here's ultimate goal to get our Club out of the miserable place it is currently in.
Can tell by your written tone you resentful of charlton fans in general.
Not everyone agreed with the idea of a few fans turning up at the CEOs parents house. A big debate on it on here.
It was also discovered that there was really no harm done in anyway. A simple handing of a leaflet to another person.
No ones privacy was invaded. No one got hurt.
If it rattled Meires cage then good. It's a clear message and indicator, that for someone willing to go to that effort of even bothering to go to Belgium in the 1st place to protest - it's a clear indicator she isn't wanted, she's very much dis-liked and should no longer work for the club.
The clock can't be turned back.
Admitting mistakes and attempting to repair then is expected. In any line of work.
What is needed, is her admitting to herself she is not good enough for the job and has never been good enough for the job.
She moves on, for her own good.
She has to go.
Then Roland can seriously consider the idea of selling a club that he has no interest in anyway....woops did I just say interest?
Interest....
1.5%
That's even less then the charlton fans that protest.
If CARD wants to sit down with Katrien or Rolland it isn't a problem we have there home addresses, perhaps pop in for a cup of tea?
Probably best to take the stance of SELL THE CLUB though, apparently they don't like guests rocking up at there houses.
Seems to me that turning up at someone's parents house is creepy and intimidating and just doesn't help in anyway to achieve what I hope is everyone on here's ultimate goal to get our Club out of the miserable place it is currently in.
I agree it could be intimidating but to suggest that this was the aim or intention of the gallent supporters would be wrong.
The clear aim was to embarrass and I think it achieved that, which I think was helpful at that point in time.
However, it is a very sobering thought at just how easy it is for anyone to track down ones own family armed with only basic information that is so readily available. Hopefully I will never have access to any information that anyone desperately needs, or upset anyone to that degree. Freedom from fear is such a delicate and fragile right.
Comments
"I was let down by my employer, useless lying cow, and I've got that bloody know nothing kid Mowgli telling me who to sign"
"My players aren't good enough so I've got to throw the bloody kids in which the owner wants as they're cheap and he wants to flog them ASAP"
And expect to keep their job and the dressing room.
"Are you happy with the squad?" is the football equivalent of "Does my bum look big in this?"
If they really want to have a constructive relationship with the large segment of the fans who have become disillusioned with their leadership, they should just keep quiet and execute a plan to turn this around without contstant spin.
Perform basic stadium maintenance, complete the Acadamy, deliver tickets on time, appoint a truly independent Director of Football, give him a budget and let him run the club.
They know what the problems are - fix them. Don't tell us what you want to do/plan to do/hope to do, just do it.
When people see real change, not just talk about how they would like to change, maybe there will be a thaw in relations.
Until then, they have zero credibility in many people's eyes, so what is there to talk about.
CARDites will say leave, go, buzz off.
How many CARDites are there is it the infamous 2% or is it 10, 20, 30.....also CARDites come in various shades of black from those who will not enter the Valley to those who wear the T shirt but drink and eat at the club outlets.
Many other supporters will say that the regime have given us what we requested in an English manager and an Englishish team but a pity that they aren't doing very well.
I have never met RD or KM but from what I have read and seen they seem to be obdurate and won't be leaving soon unless someone offers £50+ million - in you dreams, so we are stuck with them and by protesting we might just make them more stubborn, so what do they have to do to turn the support around if they don't go:
Talk to the fans - they do that in a limited way
Work with the fans - no they don't do that
Be honest - but how do they prove that in the short term
From where I stand a long way from the Valley and out of earshot of the gossip it seems that there has to be a middle way and maybe, just maybe CARD should meet with the SMT and hear what they have to say, even if the invite was a publicity stunt why not reverse the stunt, turn up, say nowt but listen and then react to what is heard.
and yes I do broadly support CARD and no I won't be there on Saturday as I'm trying to move house
That has not happened once in all the time they have been here.
Responsible management takes responsibility and makes itself accountable.
Weak management blames others or events, repeats the same errors time and time again, refuses to recognise mistakes until it is too late, then does not specify exactly which remedies will be put in place to achieve their (vague) objectives.
What was needed was a manager who knew the league and what's needed to get out of it in the right direction (likely but not necessarily an English manager) and not English players per se, but players of a decent enough standard to play in league one/the championship, not the endless parade of network shite that Driesen's spreadsheet dictated.
On the whole the player recruitment in the summer was not bad, except for the fatal gap in midfield, which has undermined the chances of the players who have come in. As for the manager, well...
But as has been said on here many times, what sort of self-respecting manager is going to want to come to a shitshow like Charlton?
Probably best to take the stance of SELL THE CLUB though, apparently they don't like guests rocking up at there houses.
b) even if it did, what could we (realistically) say to him or him to us that would change anything ?
It would be interesting to hear the answers.
I don't recall fans clamouring for Russell Slade to be given the job, but we were willing to give him a chance. Checking on my posts on his appointment, you would find my concerns about his negativity and in game tactics. Concerns that have come to fruition. His appointment was not our mistake, but their mistake.
Fans knew that we were exposed in midfield, We were all shouting it from the rooftops. Slade called for patience - quite rudely I might add - and what did patience bring us.
Why the hell should anybody talk to this shower. If they want to turn this round, they have to start running the club properly. It won't happen overnight, but fans are fickle enough to change their views when they see right decisions being made instead of wrong ones. But how can we expect right decisions from this mob? I won't be holding my breath. If the owner doesn't want to sell, they have to hold their breath and start doing things right. Some chance of that! The CEO declaring war on the fans has to be one of the most inept management decisions in the history of football CEOs.
And it isn't my money but you only have to look at a couple of key facts. Firstly JBG is the only player this mob have bought who they have sold for more money. Considering the numbers of players brought into the club, that is damning. Secondly, we are in league one hemouraging money and we are subsidising our own players to play for other clubs. We have two players on the payroll, one of which is a centre half who can play at the top of the league above, the other, whilst being no World beater, has attributes that that the midfield sorely lacks, and we don't play them. The SMT will point to the money they are spending, but they are wasting it. learning from their mistakes - my arse!
No, I am not really interested in hearing what they have to say. They have to start pulling their finger out and slowly building the trust. I honestly believe it is beyond them and they need to sell, but if they think they can do it, they need to stop playing games and get on with it!
She cannot and should not be allowed to recover from that.
Roland's mistake is leaving her there.
Yeah, but what exactly?
How were we allowed to have a string of dreadful mangers and players, a threadbare squad and no back-room? What set of circumstances led that to happen? What has specifically been learnt/altered to improve things?
Amongst many deeper problems, I would suggest that the biggest day-to-day problem last season was paucity in terms of squad depth - with over-reliance on kids, and later in the season, journeyman freebees and loans.
Do we have sufficient squad depth this season? Are we no longer relying on kids? Have we reduced the free journeymen and loans in the first-team? Are we beating the, let's face it, cack teams in this league?
Nope. Nope. Nope. Aaaaaand nope.
I don't remember a clamour for British players particularly, or a British manager, we wanted credible players and a credible manager. Yann was well regarded and he is a Breton.
The real issue, which was fully mentioned at the time, was that from March this year, when it was almost certain we were down, we should have planned for the current season.
Instead we had loads of fart arseing around, not least getting a manager followed by more foot dragging delay which Slade told us to be patient during.
The innocence with which Slade thought the club trip to Austria would reset all the problems was ill judged and the current crap is simply down to poor preparation by an incompetent regime repeating all the old mistakes.
As you say, we had and still have some very decent players who are not British. The problem was the network signings. They were inadequate because they were network signings, and they were, Watt aside, foreign because they were network signings. They were not inadequate because they were foreign.
You're dead to me now.
Well you got your wish in the end.Thanks for that.
Ah well, is it football? cos it sure ain't premier league.
Are you an employee of the club?
Can tell by your written tone you resentful of charlton fans in general.
Not everyone agreed with the idea of a few fans turning up at the CEOs parents house. A big debate on it on here.
It was also discovered that there was really no harm done in anyway. A simple handing of a leaflet to another person.
No ones privacy was invaded. No one got hurt.
If it rattled Meires cage then good. It's a clear message and indicator, that for someone willing to go to that effort of even bothering to go to Belgium in the 1st place to protest - it's a clear indicator she isn't wanted, she's very much dis-liked and should no longer work for the club.
The clock can't be turned back.
Admitting mistakes and attempting to repair then is expected. In any line of work.
What is needed, is her admitting to herself she is not good enough for the job and has never been good enough for the job.
She moves on, for her own good.
She has to go.
Then Roland can seriously consider the idea of selling a club that he has no interest in anyway....woops did I just say interest?
Interest....
1.5%
That's even less then the charlton fans that protest.
The clear aim was to embarrass and I think it achieved that, which I think was helpful at that point in time.
However, it is a very sobering thought at just how easy it is for anyone to track down ones own family armed with only basic information that is so readily available. Hopefully I will never have access to any information that anyone desperately needs, or upset anyone to that degree. Freedom from fear is such a delicate and fragile right.