I have a few Lloyd’s share too - I worked for them. Not worth selling now. I probably do hold them for sentimental reasons. Were a good dividend payer but the Gov has now blocked that!
So in our Capitalist Democracy, the Government once again tells Privately owned businesses what to do. I have lost around £2000 of retirement income from the no dividend policy. An equally Lloyds shares fell another 4p taking another £3500 off my share value, so well over £60,000 down. We will now have to lend money that will never be repaid in some cases and give holidays on mortgage, credit card and loan repayments. Oh and don’t forget the £500 interest free overdrafts. How come M&S don’t have to give out free pants, or Wetherspoon free Beer. Holding shares in a UK bank is the worst thing I have ever done, we are just here to hold up this country , at any time of crisis.
Yes, I appreciate these are trying times. But, I paid for the HBOS crisis, I paid to prop up the economy through PPI, and now this...... Lloyds Bank appears to be the Government's rainy day piggy bank, have a dip in for any crisis.
That is an exceptionally one eyed view. At a time when plenty of individuals and companies will be burning through cash resources and drawing on undrawn debt limits, liquidity ratios at banks will come under strain and I would have thought suspending dividends would be an eminently sensible thing to do to shore up balance sheets and allow large banks to maintain their Core Tier One Capital levels. Dividend suspension sounds like short term pain to shareholders for long term sustainability to me. If you hold shares you have to expect there is a chance of losing money, if you hold shares in just one company you should be aware this proves a serious risk.
So in our Capitalist Democracy, the Government once again tells Privately owned businesses what to do. I have lost around £2000 of retirement income from the no dividend policy. An equally Lloyds shares fell another 4p taking another £3500 off my share value, so well over £60,000 down. We will now have to lend money that will never be repaid in some cases and give holidays on mortgage, credit card and loan repayments. Oh and don’t forget the £500 interest free overdrafts. How come M&S don’t have to give out free pants, or Wetherspoon free Beer. Holding shares in a UK bank is the worst thing I have ever done, we are just here to hold up this country , at any time of crisis.
Yes, I appreciate these are trying times. But, I paid for the HBOS crisis, I paid to prop up the economy through PPI, and now this...... Lloyds Bank appears to be the Government's rainy day piggy bank, have a dip in for any crisis.
Some would say banks have been doing that for years, although probably not in the way you meant.
Have you actually looked at your investment and how it's performed over time? I assume you either were gifted some shares or purchased through SAYE etc, what did you actually pay for them v's their value, and what dividends have you received over that time.
You just keep comparing it to the recent high's, hardly a fair example.
So in our Capitalist Democracy, the Government once again tells Privately owned businesses what to do. I have lost around £2000 of retirement income from the no dividend policy. An equally Lloyds shares fell another 4p taking another £3500 off my share value, so well over £60,000 down. We will now have to lend money that will never be repaid in some cases and give holidays on mortgage, credit card and loan repayments. Oh and don’t forget the £500 interest free overdrafts. How come M&S don’t have to give out free pants, or Wetherspoon free Beer. Holding shares in a UK bank is the worst thing I have ever done, we are just here to hold up this country , at any time of crisis.
Yes, I appreciate these are trying times. But, I paid for the HBOS crisis, I paid to prop up the economy through PPI, and now this...... Lloyds Bank appears to be the Government's rainy day piggy bank, have a dip in for any crisis.
That is an exceptionally one eyed view. At a time when plenty of individuals and companies will be burning through cash resources and drawing on undrawn debt limits, liquidity ratios at banks will come under strain and I would have thought suspending dividends would be an eminently sensible thing to do to shore up balance sheets and allow large banks to maintain their Core Tier One Capital levels. Dividend suspension sounds like short term pain to shareholders for long term sustainability to me. If you hold shares you have to expect there is a chance of losing money, if you hold shares in just one company you should be aware this proves a serious risk.
Can I just sat once again, iv been investing for over 40 years, whilst not an expert, I am not a fool either. I have a very diverse portfolio. Roughly 50% in cash deposits, 20% in Funds including Global, USA , Europe, Asia, and emerging markets, and bonds . I then hold around 30% in Uk quoted shares largely FTSE 100. Unfortunately as a former Lloyds employee, I allowed sentiment that the good days would return, let me remain overweight on Lloyds. I hold around 72,000 which a short while back was worth a little over £50,000 now it’s more like £20,000. You really need to know the history of Lloyds to understand why I like many others, have always thought, the good days are around the corner. Jesus, we finally get rid of years of bloody PPI, then Covid 19 rocks up.
Obviously now a host of other FTSE 100 firms are suspending dividends, and my position will be even worse. I would normally expect divi income of around £5-£6000.
I kept my final salary pension, I was not prepared to go along the SIPP route and take a risk of seeing my pension wiped out by a market Crash or crashes over my retirement years. I am very glad I did, I have a secure RPI indexed pension rolling in every month, until the day I die.
So I totally appreciate how well off I m compared to many others. I was going to say “lucky” I am. However, it wasn’t luck, it was financial prudence, sound investment, and not living outside my means, that has put me where I am today. I’ve taken a hit, and it could get A lot worse, but I am healthy. I am very grateful for that, and despite my personal losses, will make A decent donation to NHS charities at the end of this to support those, who have given their lives to save the people of this country.
So in our Capitalist Democracy, the Government once again tells Privately owned businesses what to do. I have lost around £2000 of retirement income from the no dividend policy. An equally Lloyds shares fell another 4p taking another £3500 off my share value, so well over £60,000 down. We will now have to lend money that will never be repaid in some cases and give holidays on mortgage, credit card and loan repayments. Oh and don’t forget the £500 interest free overdrafts. How come M&S don’t have to give out free pants, or Wetherspoon free Beer. Holding shares in a UK bank is the worst thing I have ever done, we are just here to hold up this country , at any time of crisis.
Yes, I appreciate these are trying times. But, I paid for the HBOS crisis, I paid to prop up the economy through PPI, and now this...... Lloyds Bank appears to be the Government's rainy day piggy bank, have a dip in for any crisis.
That is an exceptionally one eyed view. At a time when plenty of individuals and companies will be burning through cash resources and drawing on undrawn debt limits, liquidity ratios at banks will come under strain and I would have thought suspending dividends would be an eminently sensible thing to do to shore up balance sheets and allow large banks to maintain their Core Tier One Capital levels. Dividend suspension sounds like short term pain to shareholders for long term sustainability to me. If you hold shares you have to expect there is a chance of losing money, if you hold shares in just one company you should be aware this proves a serious risk.
Can I just sat once again, iv been investing for over 40 years, whilst not an expert, I am not a fool either. I have a very diverse portfolio. Roughly 50% in cash deposits, 20% in Funds including Global, USA , Europe, Asia, and emerging markets, and bonds . I then hold around 30% in Uk quoted shares largely FTSE 100. Unfortunately as a former Lloyds employee, I allowed sentiment that the good days would return, let me remain overweight on Lloyds. I hold around 72,000 which a short while back was worth a little over £50,000 now it’s more like £20,000. You really need to know the history of Lloyds to understand why I like many others, have always thought, the good days are around the corner. Jesus, we finally get rid of years of bloody PPI, then Covid 19 rocks up.
Obviously now a host of other FTSE 100 firms are suspending dividends, and my position will be even worse. I would normally expect divi income of around £5-£6000.
I kept my final salary pension, I was not prepared to go along the SIPP route and take a risk of seeing my pension wiped out by a market Crash or crashes over my retirement years. I am very glad I did, I have a secure RPI indexed pension rolling in every month, until the day I die.
So I totally appreciate how well off I m compared to many others. I was going to say “lucky” I am. However, it wasn’t luck, it was financial prudence, sound investment, and not living outside my means, that has put me where I am today. I’ve taken a hit, and it could get A lot worse, but I am healthy. I am very grateful for that, and despite my personal losses, will make A decent donation to NHS charities at the end of this to support those, who have given their lives to save the people of this country.
I understand Lloyd's history, hoodwinked by the Government to take on the sinking ship of HBoS when, until that point they had been a stable, boring UK bank. But on the flipside now having the biggest exposure by far to the UK mortgage market which was always going to slam them in the next recession anyway in my opinion.
I think instead of looking at the downside you should realise you are lucky. If you had started off in your profession any time in the last 10 years there would be no final salary pension so as prudent as you may be you would never be likely to achieve the same financial security. Plus working in many parts of the financial services today precludes you from buying a very large majority of stock options, certainly any individual stock meaning you would have massively less chance of being prudent / accumulating wealth. But frankly even with those changes financial services employees are, in many cases, enormously lucky as they are often well paid and can, unless in a branch, sit working from a laptop at home in this time isolating and, to an extent protected from the outside madness health wise.
I come back to, your reference to losses, seems to be in relation to the 'recent' high. But what did you buy them for, what have you had in dividends over time, I doubt that you are in a loss situation? (unless you bought at the £6 level back in the late 90's)
I've worked for banks and FTSE 100 companies and took out sharesaves, partnership shares and the like. I can remember buying L&G when I worked there for a little over 35p, in addition we each year were given a small number of free shares (around 3,000 a year from memory). If I still held them i'd be saying 'i've lost over 40%' compared to 6 months ago whereas in reality i would have more than quadrupled my money.
Sooooo.....has anybody panic-bought or sold in this period?
I've kept hold of all my funds, but have just written off my potential purchase of a new yacht and flat overlooking the Valley.
Not quite panic'd but bought some shares in Novacyt - based on comment from @h@heavenSE7 (thank you)- they make medical testing kits...up 76% since I bought...not sure why
I suspect as an employee the vast majority of your shares were purchased at a discount or through a share save option. As @Rob7Lee suggest I also suspect you've turned plenty of decent dividends over the years. Unless you paid £50k for those Lloyds shares I don't see what the problem is.
With your index linked final salary pension scheme and your portfolio description with the fact you expect between £5k - £6k dividends annually (I assume net) then your current loss through Lloyds is really relatively minor and just part and parcel of market movements.
How about donating them all to charity, then you don't have to stress about how much they might lose or gain and just think how good you'd feel about yourself.
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Is it UK based? I asked because I had thought it is based in Dublin, and another Lifer was once having a gentle dig at me because it could thus be described as "offshore".
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Is it UK based? I asked because I had thought it is based in Dublin, and another Lifer was once having a gentle dig at me because it could thus be described as "offshore".
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Not exactly sure where it is based, but the article was saying that it was a UK based fund & therefore has different rules to a UCITS fund, which is not. I suspect their Japanese focused fund is based in Dublin as the article was more directed to the transgressions it had made & how they could be hauled over the coals for exceeding certain parameters.
I suspect as an employee the vast majority of your shares were purchased at a discount or through a share save option. As @Rob7Lee suggest I also suspect you've turned plenty of decent dividends over the years. Unless you paid £50k for those Lloyds shares I don't see what the problem is.
With your index linked final salary pension scheme and your portfolio description with the fact you expect between £5k - £6k dividends annually (I assume net) then your current loss through Lloyds is really relatively minor and just part and parcel of market movements.
How about donating them all to charity, then you don't have to stress about how much they might lose or gain and just think how good you'd feel about yourself.
A little bit of Lloyds History for you. From share price booming in the 80,s Lloyds whilst still ok had been in decline. It’s hard to go with exact details as issues and a sub division make it difficult. However let’s look at last 20 years taking the April price, as this is where SAYE would be granted.
In April 1999 Lloyds were £4.88 a small decline in early part of this century saw them drop over the years to £3.85 in April 2002.
In April 2003 they traded at £2.01 over the next few years they traded in a range £2 to £3 and in April 2007 were £2.83 dropping to £2.11 in APRIL 2008.
In 2008 as the financial crisis hit Lloyds alongside other banks started to drop. Eric Daniels CEO assured staff Lloyds had no worries. We were well capitalised and , were not like Northern Rock, , HBOS or others who gone into sub prime lending giving mortgages of 120% loan to value. He then made the biggest mistake in FTSE financial history by getting mugged into taking on HBOS. The rest of that deal is history.
In April 2008 I held shares worth around £50,000 by March 2009 the same shares were not worth £5,000.
DIVIDENDS SUSPENDED 2008 AND WOULD NOT RESTART UNTIL 2015
IN APRIL 2009 Lloyds were 54p... in MARCH 2009 Lloyds were 19p.
From April 2010 when Lloyds were 65p they have traded in a range with a low of 30p in April 2012 to a High of 76p in April 2015. An now down to 30p in April 2020.
My Lloyds Holding has therefore gone through.
Large drop in value on HBOS takeover
7 years with no dividends.
SAYE options over 20 years that were largely cashed in, as option price on termination was higher than market price, so not worth buying shares.
So no it’s not SAYE or dividends, in reality it’s the odd SAYE a few years of dividends, and annual bonus in shares and also share purchase schemes. So my current loss which you assess as currently minor and part and parcel of the market is not the case.
I would assess that with the ups and downs over the 20 years, I was 6 weeks ago about even. I had shares I paid £2 for that were worth 70p I also had shares I had paid 30p for worth 70p I reckon I’d put in £50,000 for a holding worth £50,000.
so my current loss of £30,000 is real it is my money, it’s not the erosion of my accumulated profits over the years. So that’s what the problem is.
And as for donating them all to Charity so I don’t have to stress or worry about it. I fail to see why you would make such a smug comment. This thread is usually one where pettiness doesn’t come into the discussion. I’m disappointed you felt it needed to.
I suspect as an employee the vast majority of your shares were purchased at a discount or through a share save option. As @Rob7Lee suggest I also suspect you've turned plenty of decent dividends over the years. Unless you paid £50k for those Lloyds shares I don't see what the problem is.
With your index linked final salary pension scheme and your portfolio description with the fact you expect between £5k - £6k dividends annually (I assume net) then your current loss through Lloyds is really relatively minor and just part and parcel of market movements.
How about donating them all to charity, then you don't have to stress about how much they might lose or gain and just think how good you'd feel about yourself.
A little bit of Lloyds History for you. From share price booming in the 80,s Lloyds whilst still ok had been in decline. It’s hard to go with exact details as issues and a sub division make it difficult. However let’s look at last 20 years taking the April price, as this is where SAYE would be granted.
In April 1999 Lloyds were £4.88 a small decline in early part of this century saw them drop over the years to £3.85 in April 2002.
In April 2003 they traded at £2.01 over the next few years they traded in a range £2 to £3 and in April 2007 were £2.83 dropping to £2.11 in APRIL 2008.
In 2008 as the financial crisis hit Lloyds alongside other banks started to drop. Eric Daniels CEO assured staff Lloyds had no worries. We were well capitalised and , were not like Northern Rock, , HBOS or others who gone into sub prime lending giving mortgages of 120% loan to value. He then made the biggest mistake in FTSE financial history by getting mugged into taking on HBOS. The rest of that deal is history.
In April 2008 I held shares worth around £50,000 by March 2009 the same shares were not worth £5,000.
DIVIDENDS SUSPENDED 2008 AND WOULD NOT RESTART UNTIL 2015
IN APRIL 2009 Lloyds were 54p... in MARCH 2009 Lloyds were 19p.
From April 2010 when Lloyds were 65p they have traded in a range with a low of 30p in April 2012 to a High of 76p in April 2015. An now down to 30p in April 2020.
My Lloyds Holding has therefore gone through.
Large drop in value on HBOS takeover
7 years with no dividends.
SAYE options over 20 years that were largely cashed in, as option price on termination was higher than market price, so not worth buying shares.
So no it’s not SAYE or dividends, in reality it’s the odd SAYE a few years of dividends, and annual bonus in shares and also share purchase schemes. So my current loss which you assess as currently minor and part and parcel of the market is not the case.
I would assess that with the ups and downs over the 20 years, I was 6 weeks ago about even. I had shares I paid £2 for that were worth 70p I also had shares I had paid 30p for worth 70p I reckon I’d put in £50,000 for a holding worth £50,000.
so my current loss of £30,000 is real it is my money, it’s not the erosion of my accumulated profits over the years. So that’s what the problem is.
And as for donating them all to Charity so I don’t have to stress or worry about it. I fail to see why you would make such a smug comment. This thread is usually one where pettiness doesn’t come into the discussion. I’m disappointed you felt it needed to.
On the plus side. FTSE100 up 2.2 % All share by 5%. 2nd day of gains. Ame for most of Europe & US. Not saying we are out of the woods but markets going the right way. Highest UK have been since mid March.
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Is it UK based? I asked because I had thought it is based in Dublin, and another Lifer was once having a gentle dig at me because it could thus be described as "offshore".
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Not exactly sure where it is based, but the article was saying that it was a UK based fund & therefore has different rules to a UCITS fund, which is not. I suspect their Japanese focused fund is based in Dublin as the article was more directed to the transgressions it had made & how they could be hauled over the coals for exceeding certain parameters.
It's odd, because I use Trustnet to track my fund holdings, and I have two classes of this fund. Frankly I never understand why there have to be these different classes, since they all seem to perform the same and as far as I can tell, have the same holdings. Anyway Trustnet puts the A class in with all my other funds, but D class comes under a heading, "Offshore Funds".
EDIT: Trustnet distinguishes also between "Unit Trusts" and "IA Unit Trusts" Do you (anyone) know the difference?
On the plus side. FTSE100 up 2.2 % All share by 5%. 2nd day of gains. Ame for most of Europe & US. Not saying we are out of the woods but markets going the right way. Highest UK have been since mid March.
been a good day, although got gready on go ahead, bought around 900p should have sold when they reached 1200p.... oh well, still up and it's in my wife's pension anyway (ssshhhhh! )
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Is it UK based? I asked because I had thought it is based in Dublin, and another Lifer was once having a gentle dig at me because it could thus be described as "offshore".
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Not exactly sure where it is based, but the article was saying that it was a UK based fund & therefore has different rules to a UCITS fund, which is not. I suspect their Japanese focused fund is based in Dublin as the article was more directed to the transgressions it had made & how they could be hauled over the coals for exceeding certain parameters.
It's odd, because I use Trustnet to track my fund holdings, and I have two classes of this fund. Frankly I never understand why there have to be these different classes, since they all seem to perform the same and as far as I can tell, have the same holdings. Anyway Trustnet puts the A class in with all my other funds, but D class comes under a heading, "Offshore Funds".
EDIT: Trustnet distinguishes also between "Unit Trusts" and "IA Unit Trusts" Do you (anyone) know the difference?
Unit trusts are open-ended, you can keep buying more units and the fund increases in size. Investment Trusts are closed-ended based on pulling together a set amount of funds and then investing them.
Interesting bit of information that came out today about a fund that I know a couple of people on here invest into.
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
Is it UK based? I asked because I had thought it is based in Dublin, and another Lifer was once having a gentle dig at me because it could thus be described as "offshore".
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Not exactly sure where it is based, but the article was saying that it was a UK based fund & therefore has different rules to a UCITS fund, which is not. I suspect their Japanese focused fund is based in Dublin as the article was more directed to the transgressions it had made & how they could be hauled over the coals for exceeding certain parameters.
It's odd, because I use Trustnet to track my fund holdings, and I have two classes of this fund. Frankly I never understand why there have to be these different classes, since they all seem to perform the same and as far as I can tell, have the same holdings. Anyway Trustnet puts the A class in with all my other funds, but D class comes under a heading, "Offshore Funds".
EDIT: Trustnet distinguishes also between "Unit Trusts" and "IA Unit Trusts" Do you (anyone) know the difference?
Unit trusts are open-ended, you can keep buying more units and the fund increases in size. Investment Trusts are closed-ended based on pulling together a set amount of funds and then investing them.
This fund isn't an Investment Trust, though, and Trustnet has a separate category for investment trusts, my two tech funds are such.
Golfie: I am thinking of putting my spare £10k cash back in my emptied Nutmeg Stocks & Shares ISA. Presumably this is a good time to do that? I am thinking of a risk level 8/10 to maximise potential growth but, of course, also worried about potential crashes & company failures. Any thoughts?
Golfie knows a hundred times better than me on this sort of stuff- happy to admit that - but surely this is not the time to put a large slug of money into the market?
As I write, the FTSE has just gone through the 5000 barrier again. Take your pick at the next support level. 4500? 3500? 2750? Nobody knows. But I would hazard a guess that If London does go into absolute lockdown, there will be armegedon on the markets.
Surely there will be better opportunities to invest your money over the coming weeks?
When the markets rebound from the bottom, they usually pick up massively very quickly. Ok not to where they were, but if they say bottom out at 4000 it may only be for one day. I would fully expect a couple of large rebounds at say 10% on consecutive days. So if your money isn't immediately available it's almost impossible to pick the bottom.
FTSE100 up 9% today. Don't get me wrong I expect the markets to slide again & be all over the place for a while. But I still maintain, that at some point the markets will rebound like today and maybe for a few consecutive days & the folks waiting for the bottom, without funds ready, will miss out on the bottom by maybe 10-20%.
I still think the same, that the markets are likely to slide again, on the next bit of bad news, However, the FTSE 100 is now up @12% from when it bottomed.
FTSE 100 now touching 5,800, and most other open markets are similarly up, lets see what the Dow does. I suppose we should all personally be happy with that, but it all looks too much of a recovery too soon, to me.
Still a long way to go, 1,000 points above the 52w low but still 2,000 from the 52w high.
I think the trajectory over the next 6-9 months will be up but they'll be bumps with up's and downs along the way but we are as a world still in unprecedented times but there is hope on the horizon.
Comments
Any thoughts on this fund? *I'm not about to press enter on a hopeful trade deal, just curious*
Have you actually looked at your investment and how it's performed over time? I assume you either were gifted some shares or purchased through SAYE etc, what did you actually pay for them v's their value, and what dividends have you received over that time.
You just keep comparing it to the recent high's, hardly a fair example.
back was worth a little over £50,000 now it’s more like £20,000. You really need to know the history of Lloyds to understand why I like many others, have always thought, the good days are around the corner. Jesus, we finally get rid of years of bloody PPI, then Covid 19 rocks up.
I kept my final salary pension, I was not prepared to go along the SIPP route and take a risk of seeing my pension wiped out by a market Crash or crashes over my retirement years. I am very glad I did, I have a secure RPI indexed pension rolling in every month, until the day I die.
I think instead of looking at the downside you should realise you are lucky. If you had started off in your profession any time in the last 10 years there would be no final salary pension so as prudent as you may be you would never be likely to achieve the same financial security. Plus working in many parts of the financial services today precludes you from buying a very large majority of stock options, certainly any individual stock meaning you would have massively less chance of being prudent / accumulating wealth. But frankly even with those changes financial services employees are, in many cases, enormously lucky as they are often well paid and can, unless in a branch, sit working from a laptop at home in this time isolating and, to an extent protected from the outside madness health wise.
I come back to, your reference to losses, seems to be in relation to the 'recent' high. But what did you buy them for, what have you had in dividends over time, I doubt that you are in a loss situation? (unless you bought at the £6 level back in the late 90's)
I've worked for banks and FTSE 100 companies and took out sharesaves, partnership shares and the like. I can remember buying L&G when I worked there for a little over 35p, in addition we each year were given a small number of free shares (around 3,000 a year from memory). If I still held them i'd be saying 'i've lost over 40%' compared to 6 months ago whereas in reality i would have more than quadrupled my money.
I suspect as an employee the vast majority of your shares were purchased at a discount or through a share save option. As @Rob7Lee suggest I also suspect you've turned plenty of decent dividends over the years. Unless you paid £50k for those Lloyds shares I don't see what the problem is.
With your index linked final salary pension scheme and your portfolio description with the fact you expect between £5k - £6k dividends annually (I assume net) then your current loss through Lloyds is really relatively minor and just part and parcel of market movements.
How about donating them all to charity, then you don't have to stress about how much they might lose or gain and just think how good you'd feel about yourself.
If it can happen to a bank, maybe it might even happen to the companies that underpin everything - including our inflation linked pensions!
Lindsell Train global equity. UK based fund so under slightly different rules than a UCITS fund.
Over the past year it has over-stepoed the "rules" around how much it can invest in a single share/stock/company. Max is 10% & currently it has that amount in Unilever.
Its Japanese fund, that is based abroad & so comes under a UCITS, had transgressed even further, with multiple holding over 10%, plus other misdemeanors.
If it is up to 10% in Unilever then they have increased their holding since it has previously been 7-8%. Mind you that is exactly one reason why I hold the fund. Who here has not got some Jif, Dove or Persil in their house? Share price recovering nicely too.
I get the general issue with funds which are too concentrated, well Fundsmith is another one. But neither of them are "doing a Woodford". The day that Unilever is an illiquid asset, is the day we are all truly fecked.
Me. I have boycotted Unilever (and other manufacturers) for 20 years. Those who profit from testing on animals shall see not a penny of my money.
Know anyone?
In April 2008 I held shares worth around £50,000 by March 2009 the same shares were not worth £5,000.
IN APRIL 2009 Lloyds were 54p... in MARCH 2009 Lloyds were 19p.
My Lloyds Holding has therefore gone through.
Large drop in value on HBOS takeover
7 years with no dividends.
SAYE options over 20 years that were largely cashed in, as option price on termination was higher than market price, so not worth buying shares.
So no it’s not SAYE or dividends, in reality it’s the odd SAYE a few years of dividends, and annual bonus in shares and also share purchase schemes. So my current loss which you assess as currently minor and part and parcel of the market is not the case.
I would assess that with the ups and downs over the 20 years, I was 6 weeks ago about even. I had shares I paid £2 for that were worth 70p I also had shares I had paid 30p for worth 70p I reckon I’d put in £50,000 for a holding worth £50,000.
so my current loss of £30,000 is real it is my money, it’s not the erosion of my accumulated profits over the years. So that’s what the problem is.
It's odd, because I use Trustnet to track my fund holdings, and I have two classes of this fund. Frankly I never understand why there have to be these different classes, since they all seem to perform the same and as far as I can tell, have the same holdings. Anyway Trustnet puts the A class in with all my other funds, but D class comes under a heading, "Offshore Funds".
EDIT: Trustnet distinguishes also between "Unit Trusts" and "IA Unit Trusts" Do you (anyone) know the difference?
Unit trusts are open-ended, you can keep buying more units and the fund increases in size. Investment Trusts are closed-ended based on pulling together a set amount of funds and then investing them.
However, the FTSE 100 is now up @12% from when it bottomed.
I think the trajectory over the next 6-9 months will be up but they'll be bumps with up's and downs along the way but we are as a world still in unprecedented times but there is hope on the horizon.