We don't have any staff, or any investment in this area, christ we don't even have a training ground at present... No way will we get by with 22 -25 players. Put it this way that's Matchday squad plus 5 players for 46 league games and a minimum of 3 cup games. No way in the world will that be enough.
Experience is crucial at this level, if you have troughed it out in league 1 for a few seasons you know the stress and strain it will take.
You could do well with a squad of 25 if you have the right players for it. The right players at any level are not lacking match fitness/practice and are injury prone.
The best teams core will be ever present to make a difference.
Consistency is what Slade will need, something we have not had for a couple of years.
There won't be too many league one teams that will boast a squad of 22 that doesn't include a good few youngsters and squad fillers if that's not a too derogatory remark.
A core of about 18 experienced and battle hardened players supplemented by emerging talent and a couple of utility players capable of filling a several roles is probably the league one norm.
If we can achieve anything better than that then I suspect we will be one of the better off teams.
Around 22 players would be fine if you have a owner that will back you in the loan market like CP had in 2011/12, Brussell will learn he does not have that.
There is no emergency loan window anymore, so once the season is under way, we have what we have until January.
Really starting to make cringe how every tiny thing Slade has said is being scrutinised so close. I like thqt he was quite confident in his in interview and cock sure about his ability.
Let's just give him a go and see what he does I've got a feeling he will silence a lot of gobshites
Who the hell are you to refer to genuinely concnerned fans as 'Gobshites'? Slade seems like he's not the only one who is cocksure of himself.
Genuinely concerned?
Bunch of moaning minnies more like!
Tell me how you can moan about a squad that no one has a clue as to what it will finally look like?
@Grapevine49 already told you, pretty emphatically and with an interesting reference to his personal experience
Squad of 24 I reckon is probably enough (Maybe one more Striker) as remember there will be players who can play multiple positions... Think that is enough to be competitive in League One, the problem that Roland is. is the squad balance as previously its roughly been.
50% Foreign / 30% Youth / 20% Experience when its needs to be 30% Foreign (max) / 60% Experience / 10% Youth.
i.e. look at the squad we won League One with... Only around 24 players were used on that occasion
Goalkeepers: Hamer / Sullivan Right-Backs: Solly ... Left-Backs: Wiggins / Evina Centre-Backs: Morrison / Taylor / Cort / Doherty Right-Mid: Wagstaff / Green ... Left-Mid: Jackson / * Loans * Centre-Mid: Hughes / Pritchard / Stephens / Hollands / Russell Strikers: Hayes / Wright-Phillips / Haynes / Kermorgant
That's 21 Senior players there for League 1 level (Pritch may be debateable). I'll be amazed if 21 of the 22-25 we start next season are of that quality.
Around 22 players would be fine if you have a owner that will back you in the loan market like CP had in 2011/12, Brussell will learn he does not have that.
There is no emergency loan window anymore, so once the season is under way, we have what we have until January.
I think this should work to our advantage in all honesty.
Squad of 24 I reckon is probably enough (Maybe one more Striker) as remember there will be players who can play multiple positions... Think that is enough to be competitive in League One, the problem that Roland is. is the squad balance as previously its roughly been.
50% Foreign / 30% Youth / 20% Experience when its needs to be 30% Foreign (max) / 60% Experience / 10% Youth.
i.e. look at the squad we won League One with... Only around 24 players were used on that occasion
Goalkeepers: Hamer / Sullivan Right-Backs: Solly ... Left-Backs: Wiggins / Evina Centre-Backs: Morrison / Taylor / Cort / Doherty Right-Mid: Wagstaff / Green ... Left-Mid: Jackson / * Loans * Centre-Mid: Hughes / Pritchard / Stephens / Hollands / Russell Strikers: Hayes / Wright-Phillips / Haynes / Kermorgant
That's 21 Senior players there for League 1 level (Pritch may be debateable). I'll be amazed if 21 of the 22-25 we start next season are of that quality.
Pritchard certainly wasnt debatable for League One level... Championship maybe but definitely not League One, its like claiming that Danny Hollands isnt good enough for League One seeing that he's not been at that level since we won the league.
Dont forget though we also had: Leon Clarke / Dany N'Guessan / Hogan Ephraim on short term loans throughout the season so they'd have boosted the usual injuries etc.
I'll be happy if we see that quality down in League 1 this time. It will be interesting to see how much players are put off joining us, given the very public mess we are in.
The analysis of the League 1 squad constructed with Powell at the managerial helm is a perfect example.
The recruitment team in place at the time set out their road map exceptionally well and executed their plan extremely well and even when missing key targets were still able to move on.
I am not complaining about Slades' role in any of this but both Peeters and Luzon were left significantly short of the key quality and depth needed to sustain any competitive challenge - they and we all ended up paying a very heavy price. It has been a monumental waste of time money and effort.
So please forgive me if I do not, in our current circumstances, so readily join in this "clean slate" mentality. The last thing we all want and need is to see is Slade going anywhere near the same path.
I have no problem with Slade. I have a problem with wanting to see clear evidence he is going to get the support he needs to make us successful. Support not one of the many recent incumbents have had.
I have little problem with the squad sam3110 has listed for League 1 but this collection of players will drive a coach and horses through the League 1 operating budget. So it is not a question if anyone is going to be sold - players will be sold.
The issue is going to be the depth, status and quality of the replacements. For two seasons we have been forced at the last minute to drag in people to bolster the squad. The first time we recovered but with consequences, Vetokele's in 2015/2016 all but disappeared, while the second spectacularly failed.
I happened to quite like Motta, Fanni, Suk Young and Sanogo but none of them were anywhere near match fit when they arrived and it took weeks to get them up to speed which cost us key results. You simply cannot design any successful campaign on the basis you can rely on keep reaching for the sticking plasters if needed.
These early stages are very important. Get it wrong and it is immensely difficult to turn it round.
At this stage of the close season as the "Powell recruitment team displayed" the message you send to the market is important. It creates the positive momentum you need to get things done. Slade is one of only two voices at the club who carry any credibility in the market so not only me but those players you want to bring in, their agents, their friends and family will be listening and analysing every word.
If you do not send the right message you will not get the quality people you want over the line. This is not a criticism of Slade but a recognition this regimes' profile will precede him before he even picks up the phone. People will sign for him despite the regime.
So after Peeters and Luzon I am going analyse exactly what Slade says partly to gauge his thinking about how he is going to take us forward but at this stage mainly to determine whether there has been a keynote change of direction by the regime.
I regret such expectation does not meet with the approval of some.
The analysis of the League 1 squad constructed with Powell at the managerial helm is a perfect example.
The recruitment team in place at the time set out their road map exceptionally well and executed their plan extremely well and even when missing key targets were still able to move on.
I am not complaining about Slades' role in any of this but both Peeters and Luzon were left significantly short of the key quality and depth needed to sustain any competitive challenge - they and we all ended up paying a very heavy price. It has been a monumental waste of time money and effort.
So please forgive me if I do not, in our current circumstances, so readily join in this "clean slate" mentality. The last thing we all want and need is to see is Slade going anywhere near the same path.
I have no problem with Slade. I have a problem with wanting to see clear evidence he is going to get the support he needs to make us successful. Support not one of the many recent incumbents have had.
I have little problem with the squad sam3110 has listed for League 1 but this collection of players will drive a coach and horses through the League 1 operating budget. So it is not a question if anyone is going to be sold - players will be sold.
The issue is going to be the depth, status and quality of the replacements. For two seasons we have been forced at the last minute to drag in people to bolster the squad. The first time we recovered but with consequences, Vetokele's in 2015/2016 all but disappeared, while the second spectacularly failed.
I happened to quite like Motta, Fanni, Suk Young and Sanogo but none of them were anywhere near match fit when they arrived and it took weeks to get them up to speed which cost us key results. You simply cannot design any successful campaign on the basis you can rely on keep reaching for the sticking plasters if needed.
These early stages are very important. Get it wrong and it is immensely difficult to turn it round.
At this stage of the close season as the "Powell recruitment team displayed" the message you send to the market is important. It creates the positive momentum you need to get things done. Slade is one of only two voices at the club who carry any credibility in the market so not only me but those players you want to bring in, their agents, their friends and family will be listening and analysing every word.
If you do not send the right message you will not get the quality people you want over the line. This is not a criticism of Slade but a recognition this regimes' profile will precede him before he even picks up the phone. People will sign for him despite the regime.
So after Peeters and Luzon I am going analyse exactly what Slade says partly to gauge his thinking about how he is going to take us forward but at this stage mainly to determine whether there has been a keynote change of direction by the regime.
I regret such expectation does not meet with the approval of some.
You're still launching all of today's dissertations from a single comment Slade made. Even OP has admitted he disengenuously chose to focus on 22 and ignore the employment of the figure 25. Forgive me if I think you've gone a little overboard here. It's not a clean slate mentality, it's just not taking every word (or myself) way too seriously.
On the plus side, a small squad will allow Colin to excuse all on-field failings as being down to injuries, so there is some logic in Slade's thinking.
Even the figure of 25 is worrying. If we were listening to Slade say that after the sacking of Pardew, Parky or even Powell then we might not find fault. What we are used to is several squads that have been a mess.
Several decent existing players, several decent signings (incl network loans), more than several expensive mistakes, several network flops and an over reliance on youth when things got desperate.
It's nothing to do with Slade necessarily, it's just worrying that he's repeating what we've heard from them before. If the logic and execution of it is his, then fine. If he asks for something and get's Roly's logic and execution of it, then not so good.
I think it is justifiable that people dissect what Slade says. After all he has chosen to work for a group of people who many despise and do not trust. Those on here who say that he should be given a chance and let him be judged by his actions are right. However that won't stop us judging him by what he says (or what he is told to say) until we see some action.
In my opinion to come out and give numbers or statistics like he has is a mistake as it allows for his words to be construed or misconstrued to suit one's argument.
He needs to show through words and actions that out squad will be strong enough. Twenty two is inadequate and 25 may just about be ok with very few injuries or suspensions. Both are unlikely.
If he came out and said he is determined to build a squad that is big enough and experienced enough to be fighting for promotion then that would be more sensible.
Instead his words (and numbers) do not sound like those of an experienced football manager. More like those of an incompetent CEO who knows bugger all about football.
He said "probably". And "we'll have to see" in regards to the youngsters. He hasn't committed to anything. Presumably if he looks at the squad and thinks "this lot won't cut it" he'll say so.
To be honest, I think a squad of 25 is more than enough - and 22 decent players with youth filling in on the bench if you lose a 4+ (as you can only take 18 to a game) is also fine.
It seems that our youth set-up is well equipped to fill the gaps at this level. I'm not talking about dropping them straight into a matchday squad even.
Outside of our club where we've quite badly had our fingers burnt by squad size recently - nothing Slade said in this area is any way out of the ordinary or concerning.
If you have a nucleus of players too good for the division, it allows you to blood a few youngsters - there is a path to be trod here that could work out. Will we tread it? - you guess!
Really starting to make cringe how every tiny thing Slade has said is being scrutinised so close. I like thqt he was quite confident in his in interview and cock sure about his ability.
Let's just give him a go and see what he does I've got a feeling he will silence a lot of gobshites
Who the hell are you to refer to genuinely concnerned fans as 'Gobshites'? Slade seems like he's not the only one who is cocksure of himself.
Genuinely concerned?
Bunch of moaning minnies more like!
Tell me how you can moan about a squad that no one has a clue as to what it will finally look like?
I don't agree two seasons is a fair crack of the whip in the circumstances we are in. I expect 50 points by January 31st 2017 followed by promotion as a minimum. More or less the same chance I give the other head coaches. I don't care if the manager is from Micronesia, it is results that count. I do wish to beat this regime, and I have been trying a variety of tacks.
Depends whether youth players are counted in this total. If we're saying we need 22 first team players with a bit of experience plus the kids then great. If we're saying that 22 will be our absolute limit then we're buggered
Depends whether youth players are counted in this total. If we're saying we need 22 first team players with a bit of experience plus the kids then great. If we're saying that 22 will be our absolute limit then we're buggered
Just what I was thinking and just what Slade himself hinted at.
He said he would have to look at the kids to see if they can be included in the 22 - 25 or not.
If the expected sales happen then, before incoming players, this would be our squad at a guess.
Keepers
Dillion Philips Marko Dmitrovic
Right backs
Chris Solly 2017
Centre Backs
Roger Johnson 2017 Harry Lennon 2018 Patrick Bauer 2019
Left Backs
Morgan Fox 2018 Tareiq Holmes-Dennis 2018
Right Midfielders
Central Midfielders
Johnnie Jackson 2017 El-Hadji Ba 2018 Ahmed Kashi 2018 Alou Diarra - 2017
Karlan Ahearne-Grant 2017 plus 1 year option George Tucudean 2017 Tony Watt 2018 - ??????
18 players and a some of them are poor. And that is assuming Watt stays as he's injured and Tucedean is coming back. take them out and it's 16 and one 18 year old striker.
Even if Slade adds 7 (or 9) more good players to make it 25 there's not a great deal of depth.
There is the factor that the likes of Ba, Bergditch, Cebellos might shine at a lower level but then again I can't see them as Slade type players suited to league one.
Still, long way to go yet until the first game and I'm sure players will come in.
My fear is that bringing new players in is dependent on moving out others. Their fees and wages are needed to meet the budget so if we can't shift the players we want/need to move Slade is going to have a problem. But he's a good manager used to dealing with a low budget which is one reason he was chosen.
I would imagine that Slade and the new head coach (who's name escapes me right now) have a good name throughout the football industry and now that at least a bit of the dust and debris flying around the Valley has (I hope) settled, we will be able to attract a decent type of player, dependant of course on the money on offer. I'll say again that I am convinced that the cost of London living will put some potential recruits off, but surely there are enough good quality available players of at least League One standard living within (say) 60 miles of SE7 who would be attracted to a career with CAFC .. surely enough to make the 22-25 .. any advance on 25 ?? ((:>)
An example of how it needs to work could be as follows. KM - Here is George T - he is one of your 22 (25). Slade - No, he is not - I'll have him in my squad if you can't sell him, but he would be additional.
Comments
We don't have any staff, or any investment in this area, christ we don't even have a training ground at present... No way will we get by with 22 -25 players. Put it this way that's Matchday squad plus 5 players for 46 league games and a minimum of 3 cup games. No way in the world will that be enough.
So I am not naive enough to believe we will be a threat to the top six next season.
You could do well with a squad of 25 if you have the right players for it. The right players at any level are not lacking match fitness/practice and are injury prone.
The best teams core will be ever present to make a difference.
Consistency is what Slade will need, something we have not had for a couple of years.
A core of about 18 experienced and battle hardened players supplemented by emerging talent and a couple of utility players capable of filling a several roles is probably the league one norm.
If we can achieve anything better than that then I suspect we will be one of the better off teams.
That's 21 Senior players there for League 1 level (Pritch may be debateable). I'll be amazed if 21 of the 22-25 we start next season are of that quality.
That's 21 Senior players there for League 1 level (Pritch may be debateable). I'll be amazed if 21 of the 22-25 we start next season are of that quality.
Pritchard certainly wasnt debatable for League One level... Championship maybe but definitely not League One, its like claiming that Danny Hollands isnt good enough for League One seeing that he's not been at that level since we won the league.
Dont forget though we also had: Leon Clarke / Dany N'Guessan / Hogan Ephraim on short term loans throughout the season so they'd have boosted the usual injuries etc.
The recruitment team in place at the time set out their road map exceptionally well and executed their plan extremely well and even when missing key targets were still able to move on.
I am not complaining about Slades' role in any of this but both Peeters and Luzon were left significantly short of the key quality and depth needed to sustain any competitive challenge - they and we all ended up paying a very heavy price. It has been a monumental waste of time money and effort.
So please forgive me if I do not, in our current circumstances, so readily join in this "clean slate" mentality. The last thing we all want and need is to see is Slade going anywhere near the same path.
I have no problem with Slade. I have a problem with wanting to see clear evidence he is going to get the support he needs to make us successful. Support not one of the many recent incumbents have had.
I have little problem with the squad sam3110 has listed for League 1 but this collection of players will drive a coach and horses through the League 1 operating budget. So it is not a question if anyone is going to be sold - players will be sold.
The issue is going to be the depth, status and quality of the replacements. For two seasons we have been forced at the last minute to drag in people to bolster the squad. The first time we recovered but with consequences, Vetokele's in 2015/2016 all but disappeared, while the second spectacularly failed.
I happened to quite like Motta, Fanni, Suk Young and Sanogo but none of them were anywhere near match fit when they arrived and it took weeks to get them up to speed which cost us key results. You simply cannot design any successful campaign on the basis you can rely on keep reaching for the sticking plasters if needed.
These early stages are very important. Get it wrong and it is immensely difficult to turn it round.
At this stage of the close season as the "Powell recruitment team displayed" the message you send to the market is important. It creates the positive momentum you need to get things done. Slade is one of only two voices at the club who carry any credibility in the market so not only me but those players you want to bring in, their agents, their friends and family will be listening and analysing every word.
If you do not send the right message you will not get the quality people you want over the line. This is not a criticism of Slade but a recognition this regimes' profile will precede him before he even picks up the phone. People will sign for him despite the regime.
So after Peeters and Luzon I am going analyse exactly what Slade says partly to gauge his thinking about how he is going to take us forward but at this stage mainly to determine whether there has been a keynote change of direction by the regime.
I regret such expectation does not meet with the approval of some.
(...said Guy Luzon in his Charlton interview)
Several decent existing players, several decent signings (incl network loans), more than several expensive mistakes, several network flops and an over reliance on youth when things got desperate.
It's nothing to do with Slade necessarily, it's just worrying that he's repeating what we've heard from them before. If the logic and execution of it is his, then fine. If he asks for something and get's Roly's logic and execution of it, then not so good.
In my opinion to come out and give numbers or statistics like he has is a mistake as it allows for his words to be construed or misconstrued to suit one's argument.
He needs to show through words and actions that out squad will be strong enough. Twenty two is inadequate and 25 may just about be ok with very few injuries or suspensions. Both are unlikely.
If he came out and said he is determined to build a squad that is big enough and experienced enough to be fighting for promotion then that would be more sensible.
Instead his words (and numbers) do not sound like those of an experienced football manager. More like those of an incompetent CEO who knows bugger all about football.
It seems that our youth set-up is well equipped to fill the gaps at this level. I'm not talking about dropping them straight into a matchday squad even.
Outside of our club where we've quite badly had our fingers burnt by squad size recently - nothing Slade said in this area is any way out of the ordinary or concerning.
Chill.
He said he would have to look at the kids to see if they can be included in the 22 - 25 or not.
If the expected sales happen then, before incoming players, this would be our squad at a guess.
Keepers
Dillion Philips
Marko Dmitrovic
Right backs
Chris Solly 2017
Centre Backs
Roger Johnson 2017
Harry Lennon 2018
Patrick Bauer 2019
Left Backs
Morgan Fox 2018
Tareiq Holmes-Dennis 2018
Right Midfielders
Central Midfielders
Johnnie Jackson 2017
El-Hadji Ba 2018
Ahmed Kashi 2018
Alou Diarra - 2017
Left Midfielders
Cristian Ceballos 2018
Zakarya Bergdich 2019
Callum Harriott - 2017
Strikers
Karlan Ahearne-Grant 2017 plus 1 year option
George Tucudean 2017
Tony Watt 2018 - ??????
18 players and a some of them are poor. And that is assuming Watt stays as he's injured and Tucedean is coming back. take them out and it's 16 and one 18 year old striker.
Even if Slade adds 7 (or 9) more good players to make it 25 there's not a great deal of depth.
There is the factor that the likes of Ba, Bergditch, Cebellos might shine at a lower level but then again I can't see them as Slade type players suited to league one.
Still, long way to go yet until the first game and I'm sure players will come in.
My fear is that bringing new players in is dependent on moving out others. Their fees and wages are needed to meet the budget so if we can't shift the players we want/need to move Slade is going to have a problem. But he's a good manager used to dealing with a low budget which is one reason he was chosen.
Bumpy Ride