Presumably the costs associated with the Sparrows upgrades
That should be paid for by the club as part of the redevelopment. This needs to be clarified. I pay my cash to Valley Gold to develop young players for Charlton, not so Duchatalet can save a bit of money on his training ground 'investment'.
Where do you think the young players are developed ?
I know the trend is to slag absolutely anything to do with the club off and I'm very sympathetic to all those who have stopped contributing to Valley Gold, but if you're still in then surely using the money that you want to see go towards developing young players being spent on the facilities that develop those young players is reasonable ?
Afraid not. M. Duchatalet can contribute a fraction of 1% of his wealth to cover this and not use my money, or any other fan's.
Email to Sharon on its way, breaking my last link with the club.
Presumably the costs associated with the Sparrows upgrades
That should be paid for by the club as part of the redevelopment. This needs to be clarified. I pay my cash to Valley Gold to develop young players for Charlton, not so Duchatalet can save a bit of money on his training ground 'investment'.
Where do you think the young players are developed ?
I know the trend is to slag absolutely anything to do with the club off and I'm very sympathetic to all those who have stopped contributing to Valley Gold, but if you're still in then surely using the money that you want to see go towards developing young players being spent on the facilities that develop those young players is reasonable ?
Afraid not. M. Duchatalet can contribute a fraction of 1% of his wealth to cover this and not use my money, or any other fan's.
Email to Sharon on its way, breaking my last link with the club.
That's absolutely fair enough, I was answering @Missed It who said his/her money should go towards developing young players rather than upgrading the facilities at Sparrows.
The question on whether or not any money should be handed over at all is a different one and I'm pretty surprised £50k+ was handed over recently, I thought (mistakenly it seems) that donations had been suspended.
Presumably the costs associated with the Sparrows upgrades
That should be paid for by the club as part of the redevelopment. This needs to be clarified. I pay my cash to Valley Gold to develop young players for Charlton, not so Duchatalet can save a bit of money on his training ground 'investment'.
Where do you think the young players are developed ?
I know the trend is to slag absolutely anything to do with the club off and I'm very sympathetic to all those who have stopped contributing to Valley Gold, but if you're still in then surely using the money that you want to see go towards developing young players being spent on the facilities that develop those young players is reasonable ?
I know what you mean, but the training ground redevelopment is a capital investment and one that the current ownership have been hailing as their great investment in the club. I don't think they should be dipping into Valley Gold money for that. The scheme doesn't raise the sort of sums that can pay for the sort of building work required.
If anybody can clarify what "advanced centre costs" actually means it may be all reasonably explained. However, it strikes me as deliberately vague line item.
Bottom-line is anyone still left is Valley Gold is subsidising the billionaire Roland Duchatelet who has under-invested in Charlton Athletic and whose disastrous ownership has presided over a collapse in revenues which he looks to shore-up now with more and more blatant player sales. What was an admirable ambition when the club really needed the money is now being taken advantage of by Katrien Meire. This decision was a dot on the cards throughout the Summer when VG reps told us any push for the money would see it handed over or else Valley Gold fold.
Obvious that the payment would be made, glad I left as no faith in the people that run this, our club is in crises and we still give them money for KM to piss up the wall.
We are not able to withhold funds indefinitely. From a legal standpoint what the club does with players it has developed isn't our concern, although I totally understand and empathise that people give their money for a reason. That's why we interrupted donations in the first place.
I'm no apologist for this regime at all, but in fairness, the club hasn't acted (yet) in the way Meire suggested in Dublin. Relegation has its inevitable consequences and I'm not persuaded sales would have been avoided in the summer under previous regimes.
That said one important message is that we have changed the way donations are given with immediate effect. We are not going to give single unaccountable sums to the club any more. The requests for funding will - as they did in this case - come directly from Steve Avory and must be tied to specific activities / projects so that they can be properly accounted for. Until now, donations have simply been a cash sum based on budgets and the cash position and were effectively wooden dollars in the club's finances.
We need to remember that the scheme exists to provide funds to contribute towards the development of young players through the Academy, and that is a legally binding object. We are not free to withhold funds given for that purpose in perpetuity, as I've suggested before.
Those who no longer wish to support that have the freedom to cancel their membership. Those that continue will do so knowing that the committee - and particularly the fans reps - are trying to improve the accountability and increase the direct relationship between members' donated funds and the development of young players. We will never be in control of the club's decisions regarding the future of those players, and frankly we shouldn't be.
If it ever comes to the point where I am persuaded the club are actively farming players, not just saying they will, I will resign immediately and issue a personal statement accordingly.
Finally, slights against Matt Baker couldn't be more misplaced, as those who know him will vouch for. He has handled this with impeccable impartiality, and for the record would abstain his casting vote should the fans reps not agree to a donation. In practice, it doesn't really work that way anyway - the club has always sought our unanimous agreement and accept when that's not forthcoming.
@Cardinal Sin, that's a misinterpretation of what I said, but the reality is that the scheme depends as much on the club's participation as the fans. If there's nothing but cost to them, why would they continue to support it? The scheme would inevitably collapse and take its two employees with it.
I'm not sure I 100%agree. This great initiative has been in place for many years. People were not as vocal when Waggott , Jimenez and co provided nothing more or perhaps even less to the academy development. The only people to suffer here are the kids who benefit from the investment. Whether this is the academy or the community trust. I've seen the lack of investment over the years and believe me having no academy, poor facilities and no players coming through will hurt Charlton more than you can believe. It takes years to develop and is only just recovering in part from the previous leadership and lack of investment. Dont get me wrong this initiative is superb and needs those that fund it, need to get clear messaging as to where the funds go, or need to go. Having fans give there hard cash to this is something to be applauded. The club needs to work closer with this group to get to Category one status. This is the game changer and will hopefully create the basis of removing the fire sales of our best talent. Ultimately as many state on here the whole process is linked - investment in the club breeds success. If there were ever a time to push for more input, this is the area the fans should focus. This is the model that RD said he wanted. This I think is what Charlton fans want to see also- Players made in Charlton. Every week cat 1 scouts watch our games this is the enemy for what fans get frustrated about - of course so is the agent and money!!!
The bloke that owns CAFC has got millions The bloke that owns us has no time for the supporters or the team The fans subsidise the production of youth players The millionaire owner sells them.
I have been in VG since it was launched by Lennie (with the Steve Rider video) at Sparrows Lane, but I think the time has come to end my subscription.
The jackpot tickets are dying on their ass and VG won't be far behind IMO.
When these idiot Belgians finally sell up and go - we will be in heavy debt, and that is the time to dig deep into our pockets and save our club AGAIN !
With all due respect Rikofold you are never going to see evidence of player farming if you fail to ignore what has happened under this regime even after you listen to or read their own words. I left the scheme, a scheme I joined from the very beginning, because I always knew in my heart that you would hand over the money at some point. I must admit, I did doubt myself on a few occasions when payments continued to be suspended but I feel 100% vindicated. You will never understand what this means because you are too close to the scheme and are able to seperate it from the ownership. You will never resign because of that, but this will do great damage and rightly so. Your closeness to the scheme probably ensures you fail to realise this.
How the fuck is the detestable,antagonising, lying, Meire allowed anywhere near valley gold? Even after all these months I still can't accept that.
A cause held so closely to many supporters over many years should have NO Association with her and her rotten idea of what Charton Athletic should be.
Today's donation was always going to happen, I just hope it sways more to leave the scheme as quite frankly any pride taken from funding tomorrow's stars has now dissolved, I don't care for it, not as long as KM is around taking the plaudits for doing naff-all.
I think that's very harsh on @rikofold, and as he will confirm we often don't see eye to eye on Charlton matters!
The fans reps are in a very difficult position and I think what they have done over the past 6-9 months should be applauded. People can make up their own mind on if to leave or stay in VG for their own reasons but a scheme set up under certain regulations cannot continually hold onto the funds indefinitely.
Making the club accountable as to what they want the money for is a real plus point that wasn't there before so well done for getting it to that point.
I'm sure the club are only too aware that the scheme is somewhat on a knife edge. I'm not a member personally but think it would be a real shame if the scheme had to close as would indicate yet another part of our history gone, probably forever, and it will be us as fans that ultimately lose out, as well as the youth, the good causes it supports in addition to the Academy and not forgetting we are talking about two peoples jobs here.
I think that's very harsh on @rikofold, and as he will confirm we often don't see eye to eye on Charlton matters!
The fans reps are in a very difficult position and I think what they have done over the past 6-9 months should be applauded. People can make up their own mind on if to leave or stay in VG for their own reasons but a scheme set up under certain regulations cannot continually hold onto the funds indefinitely.
Making the club accountable as to what they want the money for is a real plus point that wasn't there before so well done for getting it to that point.
I'm sure the club are only too aware that the scheme is somewhat on a knife edge. I'm not a member personally but think it would be a real shame if the scheme had to close as would indicate yet another part of our history gone, probably forever, and it will be us as fans that ultimately lose out, as well as the youth, the good causes it supports in addition to the Academy and not forgetting we are talking about two peoples jobs here.
Then the scheme should fold, not fob people off with false promises. And I don't agree it will be forever. Come the day the owner leaves many of us will rejoin.
Not everyone is in a position to be able to do that. On your basis we should have no manger and no players (some may say results would improve.... and for sure some we wouldn't miss ;-) ) are they all traitors supporting this regime? In fact the under 8's - under 16's must all be traitors, Bob Bolder certainly, Steve Avory, he's the worst of the lot........ ;-)
Maybe the VG staff would be traitors if they resigned to the many people who have contributed these last x number of years and continue to do so. I for one hope VG outlasts Roly, doesn't mean I like him or support him.
I'm all for getting this regime out and the sooner the better (don't worry, i'm a dead on cert for the 112m euro millions draw tonight with my two tickets), but calling the staff of VG traitors is frankly ridiculous.
That's a bit harsh. Not everyone can just get another job so easily. They are trying to help the club despite the regime not because of it. Not fair to call them traitors.
The bloke that owns CAFC has got millions The bloke that owns us has no time for the supporters or the team The fans subsidise the production of youth players The millionaire owner sells them.
I have been in VG since it was launched by Lennie (with the Steve Rider video) at Sparrows Lane, but I think the time has come to end my subscription.
The jackpot tickets are dying on their ass and VG won't be far behind IMO.
When these idiot Belgians finally sell up and go - we will be in heavy debt, and that is the time to dig deep into our pockets and save our club AGAIN !
Sorry, but when has this ever not been the case? This is football and has always been the rich man's play thing. Ask every supporter across the UK and your summary would be agreed by most clubs outside the premier league. Fans outlast every owner and I do not understand the logic of simply folding a unique initiative designed to enhance the supporters foundations of the club. The club are investing more than the owners before and yes of course all fans want more, but the bottom line is until this club is Cat One it will always have to operate like it is, by selling its best youth products. The category system is the enemy here and if the fans allow this fund to disappear, it won't hurt the owners but it will effect the medium/ long term future of the academy. This model should be enhanced , celebrated and used to consult more with the club on building the model I think all parties want.
I personally object to the Crossbar Challenge, if it takes place at every league home game and is not won until the last game the prize could be in excess of £10K, not sure how this is in line with the aims of the Valley Gold.
I personally object to the Crossbar Challenge, if it takes place at every league home game and is not won until the last game the prize could be in excess of £10K, not sure how this is in line with the aims of the Valley Gold.
I've been tempted to buy a ticket to get a go, imagine hitting the bar to which you are asked what you are going to do with the money so say over mike 'give it to the protest fund'!
Touched a nerve obviously - but that's how i feel. the abuse i get for a "failed" pitch invasion but these people cant be criticised!
what a joke!
leave it out.
You don't abuse, you get some stick for promising something and not delivering. That's not abuse
These people can be criticised FOR THEIR ACTIONS OR LACK OF SAME, not the same at all as calling them traitors etc.
I have argued long and hard with @rikofold over VG as anyone reading CL will know but he is not a traitor, neither are the few fans still working for the club, neither was @BDL before he quit.
Comments
Email to Sharon on its way, breaking my last link with the club.
The question on whether or not any money should be handed over at all is a different one and I'm pretty surprised £50k+ was handed over recently, I thought (mistakenly it seems) that donations had been suspended.
If anybody can clarify what "advanced centre costs" actually means it may be all reasonably explained. However, it strikes me as deliberately vague line item.
Probably funding her holidays.
I'm no apologist for this regime at all, but in fairness, the club hasn't acted (yet) in the way Meire suggested in Dublin. Relegation has its inevitable consequences and I'm not persuaded sales would have been avoided in the summer under previous regimes.
That said one important message is that we have changed the way donations are given with immediate effect. We are not going to give single unaccountable sums to the club any more. The requests for funding will - as they did in this case - come directly from Steve Avory and must be tied to specific activities / projects so that they can be properly accounted for. Until now, donations have simply been a cash sum based on budgets and the cash position and were effectively wooden dollars in the club's finances.
We need to remember that the scheme exists to provide funds to contribute towards the development of young players through the Academy, and that is a legally binding object. We are not free to withhold funds given for that purpose in perpetuity, as I've suggested before.
Those who no longer wish to support that have the freedom to cancel their membership. Those that continue will do so knowing that the committee - and particularly the fans reps - are trying to improve the accountability and increase the direct relationship between members' donated funds and the development of young players. We will never be in control of the club's decisions regarding the future of those players, and frankly we shouldn't be.
If it ever comes to the point where I am persuaded the club are actively farming players, not just saying they will, I will resign immediately and issue a personal statement accordingly.
Finally, slights against Matt Baker couldn't be more misplaced, as those who know him will vouch for. He has handled this with impeccable impartiality, and for the record would abstain his casting vote should the fans reps not agree to a donation. In practice, it doesn't really work that way anyway - the club has always sought our unanimous agreement and accept when that's not forthcoming.
@Cardinal Sin, that's a misinterpretation of what I said, but the reality is that the scheme depends as much on the club's participation as the fans. If there's nothing but cost to them, why would they continue to support it? The scheme would inevitably collapse and take its two employees with it.
Over and out.
It takes years to develop and is only just recovering in part from the previous leadership and lack of investment. Dont get me wrong this initiative is superb and needs those that fund it, need to get clear messaging as to where the funds go, or need to go.
Having fans give there hard cash to this is something to be applauded. The club needs to work closer with this group to get to Category one status.
This is the game changer and will hopefully create the basis of removing the fire sales of our best talent. Ultimately as many state on here the whole process is linked - investment in the club breeds success.
If there were ever a time to push for more input, this is the area the fans should focus. This is the model that RD said he wanted. This I think is what Charlton fans want to see also- Players made in Charlton.
Every week cat 1 scouts watch our games this is the enemy for what fans get frustrated about - of course so is the agent and money!!!
The bloke that owns CAFC has got millions
The bloke that owns us has no time for the supporters or the team
The fans subsidise the production of youth players
The millionaire owner sells them.
I have been in VG since it was launched by Lennie (with the Steve Rider video) at Sparrows Lane, but I think the time has come to end my subscription.
The jackpot tickets are dying on their ass and VG won't be far behind IMO.
When these idiot Belgians finally sell up and go - we will be in heavy debt, and that is the time to dig deep into our pockets and save our club AGAIN !
A cause held so closely to many supporters over many years should have NO Association with her and her rotten idea of what Charton Athletic should be.
Today's donation was always going to happen, I just hope it sways more to leave the scheme as quite frankly any pride taken from funding tomorrow's stars has now dissolved, I don't care for it, not as long as KM is around taking the plaudits for doing naff-all.
The fans reps are in a very difficult position and I think what they have done over the past 6-9 months should be applauded. People can make up their own mind on if to leave or stay in VG for their own reasons but a scheme set up under certain regulations cannot continually hold onto the funds indefinitely.
Making the club accountable as to what they want the money for is a real plus point that wasn't there before so well done for getting it to that point.
I'm sure the club are only too aware that the scheme is somewhat on a knife edge. I'm not a member personally but think it would be a real shame if the scheme had to close as would indicate yet another part of our history gone, probably forever, and it will be us as fans that ultimately lose out, as well as the youth, the good causes it supports in addition to the Academy and not forgetting we are talking about two peoples jobs here.
Sorry but that's how i feel. Many others that are spending thousands of hard earned cash to get this regime out feel the same!
Find another job and leave just like @BDL did!
Maybe the VG staff would be traitors if they resigned to the many people who have contributed these last x number of years and continue to do so. I for one hope VG outlasts Roly, doesn't mean I like him or support him.
I'm all for getting this regime out and the sooner the better (don't worry, i'm a dead on cert for the 112m euro millions draw tonight with my two tickets), but calling the staff of VG traitors is frankly ridiculous.
When Duchatalet finally departs is the intention to parade these 'traitors' through the streets of Charlton and shave their heads?
Grow up
what a joke!
Fans outlast every owner and I do not understand the logic of simply folding a unique initiative designed to enhance the supporters foundations of the club.
The club are investing more than the owners before and yes of course all fans want more, but the bottom line is until this club is Cat One it will always have to operate like it is, by selling its best youth products. The category system is the enemy here and if the fans allow this fund to disappear, it won't hurt the owners but it will effect the medium/ long term future of the academy. This model should be enhanced , celebrated and used to consult more with the club on building the model I think all parties want.
You don't abuse, you get some stick for promising something and not delivering. That's not abuse
These people can be criticised FOR THEIR ACTIONS OR LACK OF SAME, not the same at all as calling them traitors etc.
I have argued long and hard with @rikofold over VG as anyone reading CL will know but he is not a traitor, neither are the few fans still working for the club, neither was @BDL before he quit.
play the ball, not the man.