I am a Charlton Athletic supporter thru and thru and have been for 40 Years+ no matter what bloody league we are in or who owns the club. Watched them in exile at Palace and West Ham watched them when we were in the old first division went to the play off final at St Andrews go as much as work will permit me at present, having a multi Euromillionaire as an owner or not I will continue to support the TEAM
If you lot disagree with me then so be it. We are all entitled to our opinions I have tried to keep mine to myself but there is so much negativity towards out club on here I sometimes bloody wonder who you lot support
I agree with you that the negativity is at a level where whatever RD and Katrien say will be condemned. I hope they learn from their mistakes much quicker than they have done though. I don't like the protests during matches especially with us needing all the support we can get.
Rome was not built in a fucking day or 2 years ..... to many I want glory now no matter what it costs on this site (flag if you bloody want) that fact we have a bit of financial stability behind the club and an owner who is willing to try and change things hopefully for the better give them a bloody chance. Yes the turn around of managers has not helped and hopefully Jose will be able to see out his contract and hopefully get it extented, we have some great youth prospects that need deveoping and a bit of first team exposure will be good for them, its a matter of getting the mix of die hards, championship/prem experience and youth mix get behind the team cheer them on on the pitch and onwards and upwards .....
Shit. Thanks for setting us straight, I didnt realise that he was spending his money on us.
I was being an idiot and thought he was loaning it to us above the interest rate via Staprix, his holding company. There was me thinking the debt had reached such an amount that he wanted £50,000,000 for the club when he didnt even pay £20,000,000 for it two years ago when it was looking more successful.
Genuinely, thanks mate. I'm sure when the accounts are released in a couple of weeks we will see just how financially stable we are. I can't wait.
Whilst we're at it, maybe we've all got that CEO woman wrong too. He says shes a lovely woman - a real fan apparently. Its weird that she's ignored emails - both from fans and other business people. A bit strange shes called the fans weird and spoken about how she hopes to be a feeder club to the Premier League. Still, Roland said we're misunderstood so that's that.
Rome was not built in a fucking day or 2 years ..... to many I want glory now no matter what it costs on this site (flag if you bloody want) that fact we have a bit of financial stability behind the club and an owner who is willing to try and change things hopefully for the better give them a bloody chance. Yes the turn around of managers has not helped and hopefully Jose will be able to see out his contract and hopefully get it extented, we have some great youth prospects that need deveoping and a bit of first team exposure will be good for them, its a matter of getting the mix of die hards, championship/prem experience and youth mix get behind the team cheer them on on the pitch and onwards and upwards .....
Well, that's completely overturned all my firmly held beliefs about the history of Rome, but, if we want to use the comparison...
Rome, unlike RD's Charlton, had plenty of experienced leaders in the field, and had a tendency to overcome opponents, right up until about c150 AD. In its centuries of growth, the Romans were ruthless and efficient, they were always prepared to adapt when their preconceived notions proved to be wrong. The authorities recognised the need to keep the people happy...
Like RD's Charlton, however, Rome's decline was not recognised by many Romans until too late, and it was destined to spend many centuries as, at best, a shadow of its former self... Indeed, right until the Pontine Marshes were drained under Mussolini (his only real achievement, as he made trains run on time by extending the time allowed for the journey, something privatised rail companies have taken on board) Rome was renowned as a shithole in the summer months.
I firmly believe that the continuation of the RD experiment will ensure the decline of our club, and it will take many years to recover, if ever.
I am a Charlton Athletic supporter thru and thru and have been for 40 Years+ no matter what bloody league we are in or who owns the club. Watched them in exile at Palace and West Ham watched them when we were in the old first division went to the play off final at St Andrews go as much as work will permit me at present, having a multi Euromillionaire as an owner or not I will continue to support the TEAM
If you lot disagree with me then so be it. We are all entitled to our opnions I have tried to keep mine to myself but there is so much negativity towards out club on here I sometimes bloody wonder who you lot support
There's a phrase floating around called support the team not the regime.....
I doubt anyone will have a go at you for your continued support of charlton athletic
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
I am a Charlton Athletic supporter thru and thru and have been for 40 Years+ no matter what bloody league we are in or who owns the club. Watched them in exile at Palace and West Ham watched them when we were in the old first division went to the play off final at St Andrews go as much as work will permit me at present, having a multi Euromillionaire as an owner or not I will continue to support the TEAM
If you lot disagree with me then so be it. We are all entitled to our opinions I have tried to keep mine to myself but there is so much negativity towards out club on here I sometimes bloody wonder who you lot support
I agree with you that the negativity is at a level where whatever RD and Katrien say will be condemned. I hope they learn from their mistakes much quicker than they have done though. I don't like the protests during matches especially with us needing all the support we can get.
Two things - firstly Magic wrote a derogatory poem about Katrien only last month - secondly Roland could have easily carried some favour with fans by showing an understanding of where he has gone wrong. Remember he has admitted to mistakes before, but his actions following that admission did not change one iota. This interview doesn't offer any change - the CEO is great etc.... etc...., Hi swords have been badly judged and will only make things worse.
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
Erm.... No. Most of the debt that was carried over two years ago is owed to previous/1 current directors (c. £7m).
The majority of debt now is owed to RD's business Staprix - all of his "investment" is in the form of interest bearing loans. The longer he is owner, the more will be owed to him.
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
Erm.... No. Most of the debt that was carried over two years ago is owed to previous/1 current directors (c. £7m).
The majority of debt now is owed to RD's business Staprix - all of his "investment" is in the form of interest bearing loans. The longer he is owner, the more will be owed to him.
I posted up some interesting excerpts from the Credit Reference for CAFC, and it's also available on Companies House under the accounts section I believe.
As I said above, we're currently in the accounting window for the club and the new finances will be available in the coming weeks. This should shed some light on how things have progressed, albeit it will only deal with the first year of Duchatelet's ownership.
I do not want to get into any sort of slanging match as we are all Charlton supporters I hope .... with regard to the finances one thing I would like to see is if CM has met one of her objectives which was to save money on the day to day running of the club. This shoud show up in the financials should it not. RD as a business man would have set targets for his CEO and I believe this was one of them
So he has finally put his head above the parapet. Twenty minutes of my life gone, listening to that crap I'll never get back.
Basically then, his CEO and Executive Chairman have lost control of the situation and he is here to rally everyone round Huh? KM's got a heart of gold and didn't mean to upset anyone, yep that figures, so why hasn't she publicly apologised then? Not that it would be sincere anyway!
Quite obvious it's still mainly about the accademy which means more of the same old same old we've had to put up with over the last two years.
Keep up the pressure everyone until the circus finally decides enough is enough and good luck with the demos tomorrow which unfortunately I can't make but I'll be there in spirit.
Rome was not built in a fucking day or 2 years ..... to many I want glory now no matter what it costs on this site (flag if you bloody want) that fact we have a bit of financial stability behind the club and an owner who is willing to try and change things hopefully for the better give them a bloody chance. Yes the turn around of managers has not helped and hopefully Jose will be able to see out his contract and hopefully get it extented, we have some great youth prospects that need deveoping and a bit of first team exposure will be good for them, its a matter of getting the mix of die hards, championship/prem experience and youth mix get behind the team cheer them on on the pitch and onwards and upwards .....
I for one after being a season ticket holder since 1990, will not be renewing my ticket next season, if (which now looks more sadly likely) Roland is still the owner. The only way they may learn is by not giving them any season ticket money, regardless of what division we may be in.
Watched all the videos, skipped all the comments because to most people on here, it would make no difference what ever he said, trust is broken, they hate him and want him gone. How did it get to this? Very simple, and he pretty much admitted as much, from the outset they didn't know what they were doing. They didn't understand the league. They thought they knew better than anyone, but they didn't, pure arrogance. How could it have been avoided? very simple as well. Listen to the people who understand Charlton better than anyone, listen to the supporters and don't surround yourself with people who will simply tell you what you want to hear. He gave, what I interpreted as an open invitation to finally sit down with supporters. In fact I think it would be hard for him not to do so after what he said. Arranging a time/place may be the hard part, but he could afford to fly members of the trust over to Liege for an evening if need be. On the plus side, I think the message has finally got through, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
One theme to emerge over the last two days, something to be admired or not, is loyalty.
Katrien and others have been consistent in one thing at least, their unswerving loyalty towards Roland Duchatelet, my boss right or wrong.
Roland talking of Katrien especially, seems to be repaying the loyalty he enjoyed from her in kind.
Now showing that mutual loyalty is almost an admirable trait. However that person to person faith has the effect of very much marginalizing outside influences, it creates a bit of an exclusion zone.
This loyalty has also been evident in other Charlton staff, the most notable being the ticket lady. The support extended has very much been of a personal kind, as in Katrien is really lovely, not that she is really good at her job.
Had the inner core been open to outside influence, not only might they have thought twice about operational mistakes, both on the football side, and the business side (I refer everybody to the posts of Grapevine as an example of level headed outside influence), but they might have reflected more on the impact of those mistakes and addressed them before this present crisis.
Roland shows loyalty as in 'my CEO right or wrong'. The tragedy is that she has been wrong so often and on so many levels yet he is blinded by his loyal approach, he simply can't see, or doesn't want to see, she is incompetent.
My conclusion is that he is therefore deluded, and his delusion is cemented in by these 'same old same old' interviews.
This is the key thing isn't it, and betrays a level of understanding borne of listening too much to his staff and too little to his, ahem, customers.
Our complaint isn't that she isn't a lovely person - who cares either way - it's that her autonomous running of our club has destroyed the relationship with the fans upon which it depends, has taken the first team side backward (and we were bottom when they took over so that's quite some feat) and carries a very real risk of destroying the club itself.
I'd rather have Karren Brady in charge - and I resent this regime for making me feel that way.
I am a Charlton Athletic supporter thru and thru and have been for 40 Years+ no matter what bloody league we are in or who owns the club. Watched them in exile at Palace and West Ham watched them when we were in the old first division went to the play off final at St Andrews go as much as work will permit me at present, having a multi Euromillionaire as an owner or not I will continue to support the TEAM
If you lot disagree with me then so be it. We are all entitled to our opnions I have tried to keep mine to myself but there is so much negativity towards out club on here I sometimes bloody wonder who you lot support
Blimey - who's disagreeing with you exactly?
Although personally I think the players too have something to answer for, it's the regime that's bearing the brunt of our anger not the team. There are enough of us who can lay no less claim to our support yet still want the club to be run better. It's not a dick waving contest ffs.
If you can listen to those videos, if you can read the Cawley articles, and still say you think RD is the right man to own our club than you sir are utterly deluded. At the very least he needs to accept that his 2+ years have been an utter failure by any reasonable measure, change the management team and change direction.
I do not want to get into any sort of slanging match as we are all Charlton supporters I hope .... with regard to the finances one thing I would like to see is if CM has met one of her objectives which was to save money on the day to day running of the club. This shoud show up in the financials should it not. RD as a business man would have set targets for his CEO and I believe this was one of them
Anyone can take cost out of a business - just make a member of staff redundant. Most CEOs will focus on improving their profits - or reducing their losses - and that means maintaining the right level of productivity so that the balance between cost and revenue is at its optimum.
Focusing solely on cost is the stuff of accountants but not business leaders. It's important, but I've seen so many businesses cut costs to the point that they can no longer respond to the demand for their services and therefore watch revenue opportunity drift away.
And football is a basket case of an industry that cannot in any way be quantified like a micro-electronics business.
And if it's not obvious, sticking to one of the smallest playing budgets in our division is why we're where we are.
- We are trying to do our best to correct things, and will continue to do so”
Their best is not good enough...
Their best may be good enough, but we don't know, because so far they are only "trying to do our best". Wait until they are doing their best, then all will be well; and if you believe that, I've got this nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
We are bottom of the table. We have won 5, drawn 9 and lost 16 times
Of the 16 we have been defeated by a single goal 7 times and 2 goals once. We have been stuffed by 3 goals five times, murdered by 4 once, humiliated by 5 once and obliterated by 6 goals once.
That total of 44 goals against has seen a return of just 5 Charlton goals.
It’s not just the defeats, it is the manner of the defeats, we are being crushed because we do not have a championship squad. We also have a deluded owner who cannot see it - as even now he continues to back the failure of a sub standard, cheap, foreign management team and a flawed youth policy. It would be an understatement to say it is exasperating.
One theme to emerge over the last two days, something to be admired or not, is loyalty.
Katrien and others have been consistent in one thing at least, their unswerving loyalty towards Roland Duchatelet, my boss right or wrong.
Roland talking of Katrien especially, seems to be repaying the loyalty he enjoyed from her in kind.
Now showing that mutual loyalty is almost an admirable trait. However that person to person faith has the effect of very much marginalizing outside influences, it creates a bit of an exclusion zone.
This loyalty has also been evident in other Charlton staff, the most notable being the ticket lady. The support extended has very much been of a personal kind, as in Katrien is really lovely, not that she is really good at her job.
Had the inner core been open to outside influence, not only might they have thought twice about operational mistakes, both on the football side, and the business side (I refer everybody to the posts of Grapevine as an example of level headed outside influence), but they might have reflected more on the impact of those mistakes and addressed them before this present crisis.
Roland shows loyalty as in 'my CEO right or wrong'. The tragedy is that she has been wrong so often and on so many levels yet he is blinded by his loyal approach, he simply can't see, or doesn't want to see, she is incompetent.
My conclusion is that he is therefore deluded, and his delusion is cemented in by these 'same old same old' interviews.
This is the key thing isn't it, and betrays a level of understanding borne of listening too much to his staff and too little to his, ahem, customers.
Our complaint isn't that she isn't a lovely person - who cares either way - it's that her autonomous running of our club has destroyed the relationship with the fans upon which it depends, has taken the first team side backward (and we were bottom when they took over so that's quite some feat) and carries a very real risk of destroying the club itself.
I'd rather have Karren Brady in charge - and I resent this regime for making me feel that way.
I agree with you, on both those points. Apropos of nothing, Karren is a customer of mine.
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
The regime buy the players for the team, they pay the players, they loan players in and out, they hire youth football managers to coach the players, they pick the team, they decide the tactics, they gloat when they win a few games, they gain from selling the players and we give them stick when the team loses.
Yet the team is not the regime. Bullshit. The team is the regime.
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
I do not want to get into any sort of slanging match as we are all Charlton supporters I hope .... with regard to the finances one thing I would like to see is if CM has met one of her objectives which was to save money on the day to day running of the club. This shoud show up in the financials should it not. RD as a business man would have set targets for his CEO and I believe this was one of them
It's not part of a slanging match to point out you are factually incorrect. Murray and the former directors are owed £7m, which is not interest bearing outside the Premier League, so is not increasing. The rest is debt to Staprix, accrues interest, and is ultimately due to Duchatelet. It's likely to be £40m plus and rising.
He'll never understand the fans concerns because his agenda differs to ours. I'm convinced he wants us run as a Leyton Orient sized club, producing academy players to sell on, playing in a smaller ground. He can them make money from land sale or development. This is the man that took 20m euros fromStandard Liege.
Roland is to Charlton what Quick Quid is to my wallet. In that first instance you think you're problems are sorted but you quickly realise you've made a long term mistake and owe some greedy monster a fortune.
I am a Charlton Athletic supporter thru and thru and have been for 40 Years+ no matter what bloody league we are in or who owns the club. Watched them in exile at Palace and West Ham watched them when we were in the old first division went to the play off final at St Andrews go as much as work will permit me at present, having a multi Euromillionaire as an owner or not I will continue to support the TEAM
If you lot disagree with me then so be it. We are all entitled to our opnions I have tried to keep mine to myself but there is so much negativity towards out club on here I sometimes bloody wonder who you lot support
We support Charlton. Hope that clears that up for you. Lots of us have been going for as long as you and are as passionate as you. Some of us go to more games than you, some less. We all support the team and want it to do well. That, essentially, is why many of us are unhappy and why many of us are protesting.
We protest BECAUSE we support the team.
In case you hadn't notice the team isn't doing well and that is largely because despite having a multi-millionaire owner the club is being badly run
And No, you are NOT entitled to an opinion. You're entitled to an informed opinion. Big difference.
Most of the debt the club has/owes is to the previous directors who put money into the club and is payable back to them upon return to the Premiership with interest part of the deal when the club was sold to the previous owners and was part of the deal when sold to RD hence why he got it for what he paid. So the longer the club are out of the premiership the more is owed simples. Yes we all want success myself included but I support the team I don't care who owns them just my opnion the same as everyone has their own opnions. I will contiue to support the TEAM
RD as a business man would have set targets for his CEO and I believe this was one of them
Any businessman who sets targets is a fool. Targets distort how a business operates. (Look up Goodhart's Law). Resources are diverted from one aspect of a business to achieve a target in another. A sensible businessman would adopt measures to see how his business is operating but as soon as those measures become targets it is doomed to failure. Targets are what are stupidly imposed upon the NHS. I've no doubt Roland has them too.
The main thing it appears Roland looks for from a manager head coach is they will give opportunity to youth players.
Having looked through the Valiant 813 thread, it appears that Chris Powell gave debuts to 7 academy players in his reign and since then, amongst all successors, we've given debuts to 8 more.
Therefore Chris Powell was just as good if not better than any of his successors in promoting the youth.
Comments
I was being an idiot and thought he was loaning it to us above the interest rate via Staprix, his holding company. There was me thinking the debt had reached such an amount that he wanted £50,000,000 for the club when he didnt even pay £20,000,000 for it two years ago when it was looking more successful.
Genuinely, thanks mate. I'm sure when the accounts are released in a couple of weeks we will see just how financially stable we are. I can't wait.
Whilst we're at it, maybe we've all got that CEO woman wrong too. He says shes a lovely woman - a real fan apparently. Its weird that she's ignored emails - both from fans and other business people. A bit strange shes called the fans weird and spoken about how she hopes to be a feeder club to the Premier League. Still, Roland said we're misunderstood so that's that.
Rome, unlike RD's Charlton, had plenty of experienced leaders in the field, and had a tendency to overcome opponents, right up until about c150 AD. In its centuries of growth, the Romans were ruthless and efficient, they were always prepared to adapt when their preconceived notions proved to be wrong. The authorities recognised the need to keep the people happy...
Like RD's Charlton, however, Rome's decline was not recognised by many Romans until too late, and it was destined to spend many centuries as, at best, a shadow of its former self... Indeed, right until the Pontine Marshes were drained under Mussolini (his only real achievement, as he made trains run on time by extending the time allowed for the journey, something privatised rail companies have taken on board) Rome was renowned as a shithole in the summer months.
I firmly believe that the continuation of the RD experiment will ensure the decline of our club, and it will take many years to recover, if ever.
I doubt anyone will have a go at you for your continued support of charlton athletic
The majority of debt now is owed to RD's business Staprix - all of his "investment" is in the form of interest bearing loans. The longer he is owner, the more will be owed to him.
I posted up some interesting excerpts from the Credit Reference for CAFC, and it's also available on Companies House under the accounts section I believe.
As I said above, we're currently in the accounting window for the club and the new finances will be available in the coming weeks. This should shed some light on how things have progressed, albeit it will only deal with the first year of Duchatelet's ownership.
Basically then, his CEO and Executive Chairman have lost control of the situation and he is here to rally everyone round Huh? KM's got a heart of gold and didn't mean to upset anyone, yep that figures, so why hasn't she publicly apologised then? Not that it would be sincere anyway!
Quite obvious it's still mainly about the accademy which means more of the same old same old we've had to put up with over the last two years.
Keep up the pressure everyone until the circus finally decides enough is enough and good luck with the demos tomorrow which unfortunately I can't make but I'll be there in spirit.
There will be no winners in all of this.
The man is insane. His disregard for this club. It's heritage and its fanbase is quite sickening.
How dare he instill his bland boring notions on us and tell us to accept it.
Here before you and long after you've gone.
I'm just not at all sure the kind of condition the club will be in when they do finally F*** off!
Wise up you fucking clowns. It has already happened. We are as good as gone.
Its your fault and I hope it fucking bankrupts you.
He gave, what I interpreted as an open invitation to finally sit down with supporters. In fact I think it would be hard for him not to do so after what he said. Arranging a time/place may be the hard part, but he could afford to fly members of the trust over to Liege for an evening if need be.
On the plus side, I think the message has finally got through, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Our complaint isn't that she isn't a lovely person - who cares either way - it's that her autonomous running of our club has destroyed the relationship with the fans upon which it depends, has taken the first team side backward (and we were bottom when they took over so that's quite some feat) and carries a very real risk of destroying the club itself.
I'd rather have Karren Brady in charge - and I resent this regime for making me feel that way.
Although personally I think the players too have something to answer for, it's the regime that's bearing the brunt of our anger not the team. There are enough of us who can lay no less claim to our support yet still want the club to be run better. It's not a dick waving contest ffs.
If you can listen to those videos, if you can read the Cawley articles, and still say you think RD is the right man to own our club than you sir are utterly deluded. At the very least he needs to accept that his 2+ years have been an utter failure by any reasonable measure, change the management team and change direction.
Focusing solely on cost is the stuff of accountants but not business leaders. It's important, but I've seen so many businesses cut costs to the point that they can no longer respond to the demand for their services and therefore watch revenue opportunity drift away.
And football is a basket case of an industry that cannot in any way be quantified like a micro-electronics business.
And if it's not obvious, sticking to one of the smallest playing budgets in our division is why we're where we are.
Of the 16 we have been defeated by a single goal 7 times and 2 goals once. We have been stuffed by 3 goals five times, murdered by 4 once, humiliated by 5 once and obliterated by 6 goals once.
That total of 44 goals against has seen a return of just 5 Charlton goals.
It’s not just the defeats, it is the manner of the defeats, we are being crushed because we do not have a championship squad. We also have a deluded owner who cannot see it - as even now he continues to back the failure of a sub standard, cheap, foreign management team and a flawed youth policy. It would be an understatement to say it is exasperating.
Yet the team is not the regime. Bullshit. The team is the regime.
So you are just wrong.
I'm convinced he wants us run as a Leyton Orient sized club, producing academy players to sell on, playing in a smaller ground. He can them make money from land sale or development.
This is the man that took 20m euros fromStandard Liege.
The football side ? Doesn't give a shit.
The quicker he goes, all the better for CAFC.
We protest BECAUSE we support the team.
In case you hadn't notice the team isn't doing well and that is largely because despite having a multi-millionaire owner the club is being badly run
And No, you are NOT entitled to an opinion. You're entitled to an informed opinion. Big difference.
managerhead coach is they will give opportunity to youth players.Having looked through the Valiant 813 thread, it appears that Chris Powell gave debuts to 7 academy players in his reign and since then, amongst all successors, we've given debuts to 8 more.
Therefore Chris Powell was just as good if not better than any of his successors in promoting the youth.