I'm not sure how many of Fox's 69 appearances for us you've seen @nth london addick but I reckon I've watched two thirds of them. A lot of what you say about him being brought on too soon in his career, not protected by his managers or teammates etc holds some water but it's all about opinions. In mine and certainly that of @dickplumb he is just not good enough as a left back at this level. You need to have the ability to carry the ball forward from full back these days and he just isn't comfortable on the ball, not surprising for a converted youth team CB.
Ironically cheering him or groaning at his every mistake does not help and I don't agree with it but it's nothing new, trust me, I can relate back to the 60's. What's the answer? I really don't know maybe if we get relegated he will find his level but I wouldn't be surprised and I had nothing to do with it I would hasten to add, if he plays against Cardiff, they either target him or force the play down his flank because if they lose possession we will create nothing from it.
The Konchesky suggestion can't be serious, surely? Bit controversial but, as a left back, I'd have Jacko near the top of the list. He got regularly skinned for pace and never looked comfortable. Really don't know why Parkinson played him there.
I respect several of the contributors comments on here concerning Fox but I am not going to write off any playing career.
He is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but he is a player who will always put in his shift. He I suggest showed the ability to listen, learn and improve his game to get into the side. When on his game he can contribute at this level but as with so many of the players in this squad can he contribute consistently?
The difficulty for many of us is he is not a natural attacking and overlapping fullback. He is more naturally a defender. The difficulty for him is there are better defenders.
He has struggled this season, on occasions struggled badly, but then the whole side has struggled this season. How many combinations of central defender has he had to play alongside? How many different left sided midfielders has he had to work with?
Who of those he has played alongside is/ was he going to learn or gain confidence from? Bauer? Sarr? Lennon? Williams? They have all had enough problems of their own. The one senior pro has been Diarra.
Who is/was he going to develop a working left side unit with Bergdich? Harriott? Gudmundsson? McAleny? Lookman? Cousins? Moussa?
Though he seems the sort of character to always endeavour to improve his game has he reached his playing ceiling? I simply do not know but he is 22 and under contract until 2018.
For me he has long needed a rest and the space to get some confidence back. That this has not happened says everything we need to know about the squad the club has assembled and crucially the lack of understanding of the people apparently putting it together.
All of the challenges he has faced to this point are part and parcel of being a professional footballer as are all the off the field distractions and abuse when things have not gone well. He just has to take it on the chin, shrug it off and fight back.
Hopefully he has the character and ability to bounce back to contribute to the club whether it is as a first team regular full back is a) another matter b) very much up to how he responds to his and the team's current slump.
In terms of other left backs there are any number who have struggled but the worst performances I have ever seen were when Firmani chose to play Mike Kenning (a right winger) at left back against Leicester(we lost 0-5) and Jack Burkett, who had had a borderline decent career at West Ham, when he played against Millwall and Derek Possee. I do not think he ever crossed the half way line and was never within 10yds of the guy the whole game. We were stuffed 0-4 with Keith Weller also running riot.
I have been watching him for about five years, I thought he wouldn't get a pro contract. He did, which is testimony to his hard working attitude. In all those five years I have thought that he is not good enough. I have not changed my mind. If we are to progress I feel we need a better option at left back.
Never one to moan at the match, but opinions on a message board are a lot different.
Train your right peg Morgan!
Let's take Solly. A player who can control and pass with his wrong un, makes a huge difference to the perception and effect of his good un!
I've seen MF run round the ball because he Can't trap it with his right. And you be doing that in professional football.
Solly is also really aggressive in his play. He wants to defend, he will throw himself in when a bit of thunder is needed because the match is getting spicy. Fox doesn't have that nasty streak but then doesn't have any silk or finesse to balance out his lack if aggression.
I am not defending him as a player or his ability my point is the treatment recieved of him and other players during the game its self, posting on the Internet after a game is fair point, and acceptable fully,
However the call to Arms against the regime is to support the team not the regime booing, heckling, mocking every decent touch with cheers is not supporting the team
Fox may well win the poll for worst player ever but our fan base wouldnt win many polls with the way it within the stadium treats its players and certainly not ones we grow ourselves, we never used to do that, and thats my point not the merits of the individual
I am not defending him as a player or his ability my point is the treatment recieved of him and other players during the game its self, posting on the Internet after a game is fair point, and acceptable fully,
However the call to Arms against the regime is to support the team not the regime booing, heckling, mocking every decent touch with cheers is not supporting the team
Fox may well win the poll for worst player ever but our fan base wouldnt win many polls with the way it within the stadium treats its players and certainly not ones we grow ourselves, we never used to do that, and thats my point not the merits of the individual
Football fans are what they are, you won't change that and ours are a lot more understanding than a certain neighbour of ours. Furthermore I don't think we would come anywhere near the bottom half of any such poll of clubs if one was undertaken. And my point is we did used to do that many moons ago.
Football fans at cafc are changing though, thats the biggest thing for me, I never cared what other clubs did, I found that as a fan base we would bitch moan argue on the coaches and trains after the game amongst ourselves but we spent the time during the game supporting, we had some terrible players over the years and there would be groans and moans when anotuer chance went begging or we conceded a comical keystone cop goal, but we never put our own through that maybe I was deaf to it, but I doubt that as I always was situated in the noisest sections of our support,
But couldn't head to save his life. In fact, in didn't even try to head...and he was a six footer!! He managed to get away with a whole game against us at centre back for Palace in the league cup....which they comfortably won at The Valley, when even their crap Hungarian centre forward scored.
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
Perhaps fading memory and time has blotted out some of the worst, but to me Fox is there or thereabouts. I hope he has a decent career in the game, but it's not going t happen at Championship level. My fear is that he not only lacks the basic skills but also the footballing brain. Excelling ion one can cover deficiencies in the other. But when both are not up to it ...
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
Your just a baby then .
Thanking you @RedChaser, that has cheered me up no end after yesterday.
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
Your just a baby then .
Thanking you @RedChaser, that has cheered me up no end after yesterday.
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
It certainly was not there in the 1990s and we had some shitty times, some shitty players but they were our shitty players for 90 mins
I seem to remember that Jack Burkett was well past his sell by date by the time he arrived from West Ham. I remember a nippy winger taking him to the cleaners.
I think negativity is a symptom of modern day life. People find it easier to be negative than positive and constructive. I don't agree with getting on a players back during a game as I think it is counterproductive. But every player puts themselves out there for criticism every time they are out on the pitch.
I think negativity is a symptom of modern day life. People find it easier to be negative than positive and constructive. I don't agree with getting on a players back during a game as I think it is counterproductive. But every player puts themselves out there for criticism every time they are out on the pitch.
They do dick your right and they need to learn how to turn the negatives into postives and push on, but cafc is dying infront of everyone and right now if the only thing we can do is rage Against the machine and if we have one chance of any postives then we need the players to want to do it for the fans and not have the easy option of hiding and showing the cowardice inside and hiding, if the only thing left on the pitch is the will to not let us down due to our loyalty to them
Football fans at cafc are changing though, thats the biggest thing for me, I never cared what other clubs did, I found that as a fan base we would bitch moan argue on the coaches and trains after the game amongst ourselves but we spent the time during the game supporting, we had some terrible players over the years and there would be groans and moans when anotuer chance went begging or we conceded a comical keystone cop goal, but we never put our own through that maybe I was deaf to it, but I doubt that as I always was situated in the noisest sections of our support,
Oh, I dunno. I think we have always had our moments and scapegoats. I have an enduring memory of the whole covered end, if not most of the ground, singing "We all agree, Peter Shaw is a w**ker". If I remember correctly, the manager labelled us all as imbeciles. As for Peter Shaw - he stuck at it and to my surprise he did eventually win most of the fans over. I kind of learned what was meant by the term character from Peter Shaw.
Football fans at cafc are changing though, thats the biggest thing for me, I never cared what other clubs did, I found that as a fan base we would bitch moan argue on the coaches and trains after the game amongst ourselves but we spent the time during the game supporting, we had some terrible players over the years and there would be groans and moans when anotuer chance went begging or we conceded a comical keystone cop goal, but we never put our own through that maybe I was deaf to it, but I doubt that as I always was situated in the noisest sections of our support,
Oh, I dunno. I think we have always had our moments and scapegoats. I have an enduring memory of the whole covered end, if not most of the ground, singing "We all agree, Peter Shaw is a w**ker". If I remember correctly, the manager labelled us all as imbeciles. As for Peter Shaw - he stuck at it and to my surprise he did eventually win most of the fans over. I kind of learned what was meant by the term character from Peter Shaw.
Told ya, thank you s-a-b-o-n and I know this is going to grate with some but don't you just hate it when some old fart like me says 'In my day.................'
Comments
Ironically cheering him or groaning at his every mistake does not help and I don't agree with it but it's nothing new, trust me, I can relate back to the 60's. What's the answer? I really don't know maybe if we get relegated he will find his level but I wouldn't be surprised and I had nothing to do with it I would hasten to add, if he plays against Cardiff, they either target him or force the play down his flank because if they lose possession we will create nothing from it.
He is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but he is a player who will always put in his shift. He I suggest showed the ability to listen, learn and improve his game to get into the side. When on his game he can contribute at this level but as with so many of the players in this squad can he contribute consistently?
The difficulty for many of us is he is not a natural attacking and overlapping fullback. He is more naturally a defender. The difficulty for him is there are better defenders.
He has struggled this season, on occasions struggled badly, but then the whole side has struggled this season. How many combinations of central defender has he had to play alongside? How many different left sided midfielders has he had to work with?
Who of those he has played alongside is/ was he going to learn or gain confidence from? Bauer? Sarr? Lennon? Williams? They have all had enough problems of their own. The one senior pro has been Diarra.
Who is/was he going to develop a working left side unit with Bergdich? Harriott? Gudmundsson? McAleny? Lookman? Cousins? Moussa?
Though he seems the sort of character to always endeavour to improve his game has he reached his playing ceiling? I simply do not know but he is 22 and under contract until 2018.
For me he has long needed a rest and the space to get some confidence back. That this has not happened says everything we need to know about the squad the club has assembled and crucially the lack of understanding of the people apparently putting it together.
All of the challenges he has faced to this point are part and parcel of being a professional footballer as are all the off the field distractions and abuse when things have not gone well. He just has to take it on the chin, shrug it off and fight back.
Hopefully he has the character and ability to bounce back to contribute to the club whether it is as a first team regular full back is a) another matter b) very much up to how he responds to his and the team's current slump.
In terms of other left backs there are any number who have struggled but the worst performances I have ever seen were when Firmani chose to play Mike Kenning (a right winger) at left back against Leicester(we lost 0-5) and Jack Burkett, who had had a borderline decent career at West Ham, when he played against Millwall and Derek Possee. I do not think he ever crossed the half way line and was never within 10yds of the guy the whole game. We were stuffed 0-4 with Keith Weller also running riot.
Now that was truly s**t.
/discussion
Never one to moan at the match, but opinions on a message board are a lot different.
Train your right peg Morgan!
Let's take Solly. A player who can control and pass with his wrong un, makes a huge difference to the perception and effect of his good un!
I've seen MF run round the ball because he Can't trap it with his right. And you be doing that in professional football.
Solly is also really aggressive in his play. He wants to defend, he will throw himself in when a bit of thunder is needed because the match is getting spicy. Fox doesn't have that nasty streak but then doesn't have any silk or finesse to balance out his lack if aggression.
However the call to Arms against the regime is to support the team not the regime booing, heckling, mocking every decent touch with cheers is not supporting the team
Fox may well win the poll for worst player ever but our fan base wouldnt win many polls with the way it within the stadium treats its players and certainly not ones we grow ourselves, we never used to do that, and thats my point not the merits of the individual
You make an interesting point. When I started going in 1990-odd the mocking just didn't seem to be there to the same extent. Fans seemed in awe of the players and just wanted to be entertained.
I think it's more than just the standard of football, it's a reflection of society and pop culture in particular which seems to be all about name calling, mockery and put downs.
You also have the category of supporter who just wants to rant on his Saturday afternoon, everyone is a shit cnut and useless. They leave feeling better about Themselves Because they have had a good moan.
I'd things aren't going well it seems an easy response to pretend you don't care, your not part of it any more.
Did I mention I was 62 when I saw my first game?
He ain't done bad since he left.
There is hope for everyone, everywhere.
I have an enduring memory of the whole covered end, if not most of the ground, singing "We all agree, Peter Shaw is a w**ker".
If I remember correctly, the manager labelled us all as imbeciles.
As for Peter Shaw - he stuck at it and to my surprise he did eventually win most of the fans over.
I kind of learned what was meant by the term character from Peter Shaw.