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Burnley v Charlton - Post Match Thread

13

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  • I wasn't there today, GGA but from Red's brilliant thread on here, it was clear that we held our own & more in the first 44 minutes. And the commentators didn't appear to single out any of our players for particular criticism. In fact, Big Mak received praise on several occasions, I believe.

    But as has happened time after time this season, another injury disrupts our "game plan" ( at least I trust there was one ) , a deflection puts the home side one up and the rest is history. Add a further injury or three & basically, we are stuffed tighter than our Christmas turkey.

    But although these are facts, NOTHING takes away the most important one that we are severely hampered by the paucity of our squad and our bench is thin to the point of transparency. Coupled with the inexperience & naivety of our managers , it's a recipe for disaster.

    I hate to criticise our players but as others have rightly stated, we have too many out of their depth or too young to compete at this level week in , week out. The former should NOT have been allowed to happen - especially if KF was the scout who recommended them to our owner - but once again, this is the result of a head honcho and his minions having no experience ( or interest ?) in the Championship. The latter, is the inevitable result of the former, if you get my drift. And could well be to the detriment of the young guns in terms of being overplayed too soon .

    In fact, everything comes back to the main reason why we are where we are. All the excuses, all the rose tinted specs that Specsavers could provide & all the "if onlys " are meaningless..... Words that we, the fans use when we're trying hard to defend our team & their performances. Alas, those words are becoming almost redundant now as our inadequacies are there for all to see.

    The only words we should be using now are " Roland Out ! " All other words, all this talk of talking with the current regime has to be shown the red card NOW. It's only delaying the inevitable - this man is not for turning.

    For the sake of those players who give their all but who must be totally depressed by the place they find themselves in tonight and especially for those ex Academy lads who have been thrown into this unholy mess, but most of all for the future of our Club , something has to change NOW.

    Every week we lose more supporters. Every week, those of us who try to keep the faith by turning up, are losing another degree of hope. Every week we are slipping further into the abyss. And it must stop.

    I can't believe ( or rather I won't believe) that there is nothing we can do to fight this disease that's crippling every aspect of our beloved Club. There must be a way as I stated once before, to find RD's Achilles' heel and puncture it big time. I'm not calling out for a hero, or a miraculous appearance by the Good Fairy to make it all disappear with one waft of her wand but for the most cunning plan ever. Surely the spirit of the Valley Party can be revived ?

    I know what my New Year's Resolution will be ( and it doesn't involve wine!)

    And I hope yours will be the same...



    (Apologies if this isn't what you want to see on the Post Match Thread, AFKA but there it is )

    Couldn't agree more - time for appeasement is over. Not in my name.
  • WHERE'S COLIN?
  • edited December 2015
    Just got in - same as above, we dominated most of the first half except for the last few mins. Burnley caught us on the break time and time again. It looked their game plan was to exploit our lack of width what with us playing the diamond again. Poor execution cost them on the first half but they murdered us in the second although we gave them a large helping hand.

    Was sad seeing the heads drop and even sadder to see the likes of JJ doing little to get them going - has he given up too?

    Little inspiration too from our bench with only JE dishing out orders or encouragement.

    Sad times!
  • Surely Fraye's position is totally untenable, and what the club is doing naming a 17 year old on the bench for a game like this is baffling. I think the team was told to switch off and save themselves for Bristol City.

    On the plus side, Burnley folk are top people and very friendly.

    Prepare for League One everybody.
  • Son was at the game, just spoke to him says the score was harsh on us and couldn't understand the team selection.

    Your sons not called Karel is he Chippy?
  • Son was at the game, just spoke to him says the score was harsh on us and couldn't understand the team selection.

    Your sons not called Karel is he Chippy?
    Lol if only
  • Karel Fraeye has warned his Charlton players that the club will “make the decisions that have to be made” after the Addicks' 4-0 loss at Burnley.

    We can only hope that one of those decisions is to remove the inept interim manager.

    I followed the match thread with the belief that we would throw it away after seemingly dominating the first half, whilst watching an excellent Everton v Leicester City game on TV.

    I then sat reading CL and Twitter hoping that this defeat would persuade the Board (sorry, I mean Roland Duchatalet) to call time on Fraeye's tenure and appoint another clown from the network to continue the downward spiral but of course that was never going to happen. It seems from everything KF says that he is in the role for the foreseeable future. I'm now waiting with bated breath for the vote of confidence from KM as this will hopefully mean the end of this disastrous managerial spell.

    His press conferences are a joke: "We were the better team for .....* minutes".
    *insert a number between 1 and 44 but definitely nothing above 45.

    How can anyone look forward to a game at the moment? And I think that comment applies to fans and players alike and therein lies a major problem.
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  • Dodged a bullet here. Feel for the nutter that bought my train ticket. Sounds like a total capitulation in the second half. Each time I think we've hit rock bottom it gets worse.

    Starting to question all these "injuries" as well. The cynic in me thinks we just have a load of young blokes whose confidence has been shredded and no-longer fancy it.

    Or in some cases they're being mothballed til January?
  • What is the owner's end game for us? Serious question. I cannot fathom what he wants to achieve with CAFC.
    Relegation to League One isn't my biggest worry. I think we could fall further than that. Utterly depressing.
  • Valley11 said:

    What is the owner's end game for us? Serious question. I cannot fathom what he wants to achieve with CAFC.
    Relegation to League One isn't my biggest worry. I think we could fall further than that. Utterly depressing.

    I honestly now think that's a very real possibility that given RD has the money to oversee this clubs losses for many years and decline makes an alternative owner less and less likely.

    I think his plan is to build a squad based on youth, augmented by underrated/undervalued foreign players (basically moneyball) - unfortunately that clearly isn't going to work, that much is obvious.

    We desperately need more experience in the squad, Johnnie Jackson is the only player you would say had the relevant experience (a few hundred games in the English game). That is an utterly ridiculous indictment of the squad that has been built under this regime.
  • Alou Diarra?
  • vffvff
    edited December 2015
    jamescafc said:

    Just got in - same as above, we dominated most of the first half except for the last few mins. Burnley caught us on the break time and time again. It looked their game plan was to exploit our lack of width what with us playing the diamond again. Poor execution cost them on the first half but they murdered us in the second although we gave them a large helping hand.

    Was sad seeing the heads drop and even sadder to see the likes of JJ doing little to get them going - has he given up too?

    Little inspiration too from our bench with only JE dishing out orders or encouragement.

    Sad times!

    This was the challenge, Fraeye has the diamond in midfield but there is a lack of width with that formation. Charlton are not strong in the wide positions. What does Fraeye do now, his attempted formation has been worked out by the opposition managers ? Peters and Luzon had no plan B (not helped by a limited squad). It will be interesting to see if Fraeye has a plan B either. It would not be wise holding your breath for that.
  • Do you what .... This all feels like a bad dream and when I wake up, everything's going to be alright. Problem is this dream's turning into a nightmare. Just like yesterday's performance.
  • vff said:

    jamescafc said:

    Just got in - same as above, we dominated most of the first half except for the last few mins. Burnley caught us on the break time and time again. It looked their game plan was to exploit our lack of width what with us playing the diamond again. Poor execution cost them on the first half but they murdered us in the second although we gave them a large helping hand.

    Was sad seeing the heads drop and even sadder to see the likes of JJ doing little to get them going - has he given up too?

    Little inspiration too from our bench with only JE dishing out orders or encouragement.

    Sad times!

    This was the challenge, Fraeye has the diamond in midfield but there is a lack of width with that formation. Charlton are not strong in the wide positions. What does Fraeye do now, his attempted formation has been worked out by the opposition managers ? Peters and Luzon had no plan B (not helped by a limited squad). It will be interesting to see if Fraeye has a plan B either. It would not be wise holding your breath for that.
    Yes but he didn't react when Burnley's game plan (imo) became very clear. Their left back Mee must have had 2-3 shots in the first half from the edge of our box and was almost in challenged. This was because Solly was occupied with Arfield and Cousins was tucked in too far.

    I agree that we have to play to our strengths but surely any good manager has to adapt his team as the match develops?
  • Fraeye's comments are claptrap. Total contradictory nonsense. No wonder the players look disinterested and like they don't have a plan if that is the inspiring rubbish that comes out. Just remember to smile KF.

    All I can think is that having spent the last 2 years telling RD the players he bought in were good enough it was just our managers that weren't he is now struggling for excuses for his boss.

    Having watched the video of the highlights our defence is a total shambles, opposing teams week after week have acres of space and when our players get near none of them can tackle (bar Solly and Jackson although even these do so less than previously). Our defence kept us up for a couple of years but kept being sold/released each time so hardly surprising that a young one with little experience has us in this position.

    That said, to me it looked like the first was a ridiculously bad corner and then Solly should have cleared off the line that opened the flood gates and the rest are simply embarrassing and would be poor goals to concede in the Belgium 3rd division.
  • edited December 2015

    Alou Diarra?

    "A few hundred games in the English game"

    I like Diarra, in fact I would go as far as saying he's probably my "favourite" player (if 30 year olds are allowed favourite players) but he makes some really silly errors some times which surprises me given his international experience. But he has no real experience of the English game, which would be fine if that experience was elsewhere in the squad, but it isn't.
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  • Again the old confidence goes. Paritcularly when the first goes so close to half time. It's often what happens when you are down there. If it happens when you are up there there is usually that belief you are still going to get something from the game. When your confidence is down, your confidence is down.
  • Left after third goal utter shit.
  • Brilliant insight Tutt-Tutt.

    Any chance you could offer your services to the coaching staff?

    It's not Div 1 I'm worried about, it's Div 2 the year after.
  • Tutt-Tutt said:


    @vff said: This was the challenge, Fraeye has the diamond in midfield but there is a lack of width with that formation. Charlton are not strong in the wide positions. What does Fraeye do now, his attempted formation has been worked out by the opposition managers ? Peters and Luzon had no plan B (not helped by a limited squad). It will be interesting to see if Fraeye has a plan B either. It would not be wise holding your breath for that.

    Reply - Carol started with a 4-4-2 in his opening games, which didn't work. He switched to a 4-1-4-1 at Middlesbrough with Ba(!!) in front, which lasted 50 mins before caving in. He switched to a 4-4-2 Diamond against Sheff Wed & Birmingham, which caught out Carvahal (limited coach) and Rowett (Surprisingly), before McCarthy & Ipswich ripped it apart. So onto Brighton & 4-2-3-1, and a two nil lead at half-time disappeared when Hughton changed tactics for the second half, to attack the exposed full back positions. The Leeds game between two teams playing one up front ended 0-0, although we were hanging on at the end & we were too open v Bolton.

    So onto yesterday and a return to the Diamond, which Dyche wasn't expecting, as we have been 4-2-3-1 in the last two games. He obviously got his team over-loading the exposed full back areas in the second half, which will pull the diamond across and in turn open up the middle, as Ipswich did. Standard coaching.

    Is it Carol coming up with the constant change of tactics, or Euell? Jacko went to great lengths to tell us at the PowerPoint meeting, that the coach was listening to him and he was having more input. Is it all three combined? Whatever is happening at half time, is also part of the problem, because Championship level coaches will adjust their tactics, whereas we continue the same way and are sitting ducks against the better teams.

    So what next? I particularly enjoyed the 2-3-5 WM formation in the last 15 minutes against Bolton. Great to see it back in action after all these years.

    A third Division Belgian coach, which is the equivalent of the Ryman Premier, (I know first-hand because I've played at Carol's club Zele on a pre-season tour), has no chance against Championship level coaches. They see right through his basic non-league tactics.

    Also Tutt Tutt and I know nothing about tactics at a professional level (your knowledge and experience is always good to read), It seemed even more simplistic for Burnley y'day, just go down our left. We are woefully inadequate down that flank IMO
  • vffvff
    edited December 2015
    jamescafc said:

    vff said:

    jamescafc said:

    Just got in - same as above, we dominated most of the first half except for the last few mins. Burnley caught us on the break time and time again. It looked their game plan was to exploit our lack of width what with us playing the diamond again. Poor execution cost them on the first half but they murdered us in the second although we gave them a large helping hand.

    Was sad seeing the heads drop and even sadder to see the likes of JJ doing little to get them going - has he given up too?

    Little inspiration too from our bench with only JE dishing out orders or encouragement.

    Sad times!

    This was the challenge, Fraeye has the diamond in midfield but there is a lack of width with that formation. Charlton are not strong in the wide positions. What does Fraeye do now, his attempted formation has been worked out by the opposition managers ? Peters and Luzon had no plan B (not helped by a limited squad). It will be interesting to see if Fraeye has a plan B either. It would not be wise holding your breath for that.
    Yes but he didn't react when Burnley's game plan (imo) became very clear. Their left back Mee must have had 2-3 shots in the first half from the edge of our box and was almost in challenged. This was because Solly was occupied with Arfield and Cousins was tucked in too far.

    I agree that we have to play to our strengths but surely any good manager has to adapt his team as the match develops?
    Agree totally, but adapting tactics appropriately and successfully in the game is not a skill Fraeye has. We are witnessing the evidence first hand as to why employing a Belgium 3rd division coach with little experience was a terrible idea.

  • Can anyone check the stats and tell me how many (sane) managers in charge of a bottom four team have played three up front away from home, against a fancied former Premiership team?

    Or would we have played five up front if JBG and Lookman were available?

    30 minutes of semi-fluid football followed by a complete tonking make interesting viewing for the neutral but it's unconventional survival tactics, to say the least.
  • vffvff
    edited December 2015
    Even if Fraeye was some kind of tactical genius, which he clearly is not, is their sufficient quality players currently in the team / squad to play any formation effectively through the game for the full 90 minutes ?

    Getting the formation right and being difficult to beat is essential but that seems a long way away at present. Some excellent tactical insights as always from Tutt Tutt.
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Roland Out Forever!