I'll start with the positives: the Charlton fans showed wonderful gallows humour throughout, and I ticked off another ground. Moreover, until Fox earned a corner a minute before half time we were right in this game. We should even have been in front by then, only for a low cross from the left to fall to the foot that Reza uses for standing on, rather than the one he plays football with. But from that 44th-minute corner, taken very poorly by Reza, Burnley broke, and the ball dropped to Scott Arfield to fire home, squeezing it past Solly and Henderson on the line.
What happened after then was depressingly inevitable. A corner routine caught us half asleep and the ball was deflected in. Then, with the team in complete disarray, Gray stroked home the third; 10 minutes in to the second half and the game was already over. Heaton was forced into a decent save soon afterwards (he had also done well to tip a fierce drive from Jackson over in the first half), but the fourth eventually came, the ball rolling slowly beyond the reach of Henderson into the corner from Sam Vokes.
In terms of individual performances, no-one comes out of today with any credit. Makienok was better than he has been recently, but that's not saying much. Reza looks far more threatening than he actually is and needs to learn how to use his right foot. Special mention, however, should go to Bergdich for the most inept performance I've ever seen from a substitute. We would genuinely have been better off with 10 men.
We are at least consistent, in that we play OK for a chunk of the game, only to be absolutely appalling for the rest of it. If we don't score in our 'good' spell we stand no chance whatsoever of getting anything from the game. And once we concede, our heads drop and more often than not we go on to concede more. Essentially it boils down to not having enough fighters in the squad - as much as he makes it very easy to dislike him, Joey Barton is the kind of player we desperately need. But it is also a sign of incompetent management, the kind of management our owner seems to specialise in.
It is of course a Charlton tradition to lose heavily in the North West. Before Roland took over, these defeats felt like one of those things that just happened because it was the way of the world. Now, though, it feels symptomatic of the wider malaise this club is currently enduring. A malaise which, without a radical rethink and overhaul in January, will see us relegated.
4-0 was harsh but there it is .. their finishing was terrific, ours was non existent.
Weather ? .. hard rain and cold wind for 90 minutes ... referee ? good ... our manager ? .. positive attacking line up, tactics ? .. nothing bizarre .. substitutions ? .. if the last two were 'tactical', baffling, we will know sooner or later
Vaz Te was hurt in the first few minutes, soldiered on for a bit, after he went off we showed little up front .. only hope that the injury is not too bad .. I fear the worst to be quite honest, given our recent crop of crocks
Reza .. skilful but no finish, Makienok .. improved in the air, no finish, Ahearne -Grant was ineffective .. all strikers were against two top centre backs and we had little out wide, Fox & Solly rarely got forward
Midfield .. Jackson outpaced and anonymous, Cousins outclassed but worked hard, Diarra the best of the bunch .. went off as did Bauer ... were they injured, tactically removed or simply broken hearted ?
Henderson was himself, solid as a rock .. he went ballistic at (I think) Ahearne -Grant after the first goal when Burnley broke away from a terrible corner, he had no chance for any of the goals, one scrambled and three well crafted and finished.
Defence was static, indecisive and pulled around by the powerful and positive Burnley attack. Hate to say it .. Barton was terrific as was Marney ... Arfield, the other attacking midfielder scored two
To sum up just like two years ago we were overpowered and basically mullered by a powerful team that is back in form, alas at our expense. Our team was outclassed but importantly never gave up and showed a few positive signs .. BUT .. the season rolls on quickly and we need some points VERY soon
The icing on the burnt cake ? .. I get back to the hotel and have to put up with the cretinous Savage and/or the mouth Collymoor on the radio .. what a feckin 'orrible afternoon/evening
Really feel for the ones that made the effort to go today.
Just seen the goals on sky sports and the defending is atrocious. I know you don't get the whole picture from highlights but it genuinely seems as though this is the worst defence we have had (collectively) for a couple of decades.
To be honest this wasn't too much of a surprise as a result. Team just relegated from the Premiership with a substantial parachute payment versus a struggling side; fairly predictable result. However - the failure to win the last two home games against middling to below average opposition is the real killer. RD has let this drift now for too long and to be certain of staying up we'd need to get an above average set of results - consistently - all the way through to next May. Even with a great new manager and several new signings I'd be doubtful of that.
Those comments form Fraeyeare an embarrassment. A total joke. The club will Make the decisions that need to be made? We know they don't make any decisions that need to be made. You can threaten players if there are others to come in to replace them but certainly not with U18 players
He issues a warning to all the players and then says they gave it their all. Just hope he hasn't any say in the players we simply must get in next month. He scouted most of the shite we have. Don't think José Mourinho could get us out of the abyss we are falling down.
It`s actually surprising we have managed two wins and two draws under him given his qualifications for the job. I used to manage the Royal Oak`s Sunday team and if I could speak Flemish I would surely be in with a chance.
I love the way that each match we count the minutes that we played well. If we add them all up to the end of the season, can we claim some extra points? But like the fair play league?
The goals here. Charlton chances didn't look particularly clear cut. Gray missed a sitter in the first half before Burnley scored the first. The second is woeful defending and the edge of the box was left completely free. The third was exceptionally poor. Couple of comedy moments of Charlton players leaping for a ball that they completely missed, leaving them dumped on the backside as the play went forward. The missed tackle that nearly led to a fifth was impressive was as well. The worrying thing is how resigned and accepting of defeat as normal the players looked. No fight left in them.
You would have never known that his team has been thumped 4-0 away from those comments. All the vague threats to the players about what might happen is laughable as well. Like Duchatelet going to get his hand in his pocket and replace them with better players ? Little chance of that. Its an empty threat. Some of them, may even welcome it. The comments are worrying though as to how little bothered, Fraeye appears to be at another hammering.
It wasn't Ahearne-Grant who Henderson was going berserk at as I first thought .. it was Reza for a horrible corner that led pretty directly to the first goal
I think thats the worst defeat I've watched since I saw us lose 6-1 at home to Leeds.
First half, I thought we put some decent moves together and was impressed by Mak and some of the runs Reza was making. We could of easily of come in 1 up. Diarra was having to play very deep due to the lack of presence of both Lennon and Fox. He was doing a good job but not the one he was meant to be doing in midfield. I did find the negativity of the supporters a bit dispiriting, singing 'we never win away' after the first ten minutes of the game at 0-0 is not exactly a great song for our goalie to be serenaded by.
Solly put in the usual good shift. The centre of midfield concerns me a lot. Cousins sometimes seems in a different world and JJ seems ineffectual and half hearted. I think Burnley realised that any balls with pace into our area we would struggle with and when their first goal did eventually come it was a bit inevitable. The 2nd half felt a bit like playing a kick around match at the rec when half your team go home early and your just desperately trying to play on but losing badly, very badly. A mixture of knackered players and bad substitutions.
An input of talented, strong and experienced players is the only way out of this.
“It’s very concerning but this game we won’t win any more so we just look to the next. We go and travel to Bristol on Saturday and there are no more points to win then.”
Its put as a direct quote. I am hoping that London 24 have misquoted here.
So pleased that some die hards are still going. the club need you and you have my full respect. This was one I had thought of going to, but had to work and to be honest didn't feel too gutted at not being able to go. In all honesty i had no desire to go. Earlier in the season i went to Wolves with daughter. It was a great day out, yes we lost, but it still felt like a fun day. now i just feel empty as each result comes in I just feel acceptance that this is how it is now. I expect nothing more than we are getting. They say this game is about results and it absolutely is. If we were winning every other game and mid-table i'd be up for coming. I've watched some poor teams play out an awful 90 mintues of what could never be called entertainment, but i've never been as disillusioned as I am now. If RD thinks the club can turn around financially, he must pour in a hell of a lot of money to achieve that, even then there is no guarantee. As things stand we are going down without a fight. I have no doubt he cares albeit only for financial reasons, but no businessman likes to lose money. RD must either stick or twist, but at present the current set of cards are shit and unless he's going to rely on there being three other club owners with a poorer set of cards, then he will have to accept that he will lose this hand. What he does then is what we are all wondering.
Expected nothing got nothing up at Burnley so not too surprised.
More worryingly the teams around us won.
I can't comment on the specifics of today as I wasn't there but we seem capable of half an hour or so of decent football but don't have the legs to sustain it and get overpowered.
As it stands we are going down without a shadow of a doubt?
Do either of Roland or Pinocchio give a toss?
Only Rotherham won today (a surprise win over Hull) MKD and Huddersfield lost, Bristol drew while Bolton drew with Fulham. Our GD is now the worst in the division, though with out CBs perhaps that's not surprising
I wasn't aware of Fulham's late equaliser when posting.
We still lost ground on our rivals though.
It's still "all to play for" but our main problem is not being able to keep clean sheets. The classic away team tactic of shutting
I think thats the worst defeat I've watched since I saw us lose 6-1 at home to Leeds.
First half, I thought we put some decent moves together and was impressed by Mak and some of the runs Reza was making. We could of easily of come in 1 up. Diarra was having to play very deep due to the lack of presence of both Lennon and Fox. He was doing a good job but not the one he was meant to be doing in midfield. I did find the negativity of the supporters a bit dispiriting, singing 'we never win away' after the first ten minutes of the game at 0-0 is not exactly a great song for our goalie to be serenaded by.
Solly put in the usual good shift. The centre of midfield concerns me a lot. Cousins sometimes seems in a different world and JJ seems ineffectual and half hearted. I think Burnley realised that any balls with pace into our area we would struggle with and when their first goal did eventually come it was a bit inevitable. The 2nd half felt a bit like playing a kick around match at the rec when half your team go home early and your just desperately trying to play on but losing badly, very badly. A mixture of knackered players and bad substitutions.
An input of talented, strong and experienced players is the only way out of this.
We seem to be able to give teams a competitive half, but then tiredness and injuries creep in and we fall apart in the second half, due to the pathetic lack of experience on the bench.
Silver lining, not my most miserable trip to Burnley.
Not much to add that others have not already said, up until they scored I thought just maybe we could be on a for a one nil smash and grab but that second half..........
I just feel sorry for a lot of our players as many are either just out of their depth or too young, they should not be being forced into the squad so early in their careers.
If you has asked me before the Leeds game, despite my pessimism about everything Charlton related right now, I genuinely thought we would have enough to just about keep our heads above water to avoid relegation this season but no doubt in my mind that we are going down unless we sign experienced championship on pitch leaders in January but more important, the first bit of business, we need a real manager, someone the players can actually respect because they have earned it.
So an interim manager with less experience than almost ANY manager in the four divisions starts issuing threats. That didn;t even work for Mourinho and he was arguably a bigger name than Fraeye.
“The players had the chance to do something about that and if they can’t then it’s up to the club to make the decisions that have to be made." Hmm. Who at the club? Meire? She knows even less about football than KF.
As for “It is amazing the way we conceded the goals" ... sounds pretty much like a fan rather than the man in charge of the sinking ship.
I was there. We were the better team in the first half but you just knew as soon as they scored it was game over. We then threw it away in the first ten minutes of the second and never looked in it. Awful.
No coincidence every Burnley attack came down Fox's side. He had a shocker today.
Bergdich is even worse.
Vaz Te easily our best player before he got injured. Just shows what a bit of experience can do for you. Reza looked energetic and was trying to get play going and didn't give up.
I don't recognise this club anymore. We have to get rid of them. League One may not be the end.
I wasn't there today, GGA but from Red's brilliant thread on here, it was clear that we held our own & more in the first 44 minutes. And the commentators didn't appear to single out any of our players for particular criticism. In fact, Big Mak received praise on several occasions, I believe.
But as has happened time after time this season, another injury disrupts our "game plan" ( at least I trust there was one ) , a deflection puts the home side one up and the rest is history. Add a further injury or three & basically, we are stuffed tighter than our Christmas turkey.
But although these are facts, NOTHING takes away the most important one that we are severely hampered by the paucity of our squad and our bench is thin to the point of transparency. Coupled with the inexperience & naivety of our managers , it's a recipe for disaster.
I hate to criticise our players but as others have rightly stated, we have too many out of their depth or too young to compete at this level week in , week out. The former should NOT have been allowed to happen - especially if KF was the scout who recommended them to our owner - but once again, this is the result of a head honcho and his minions having no experience ( or interest ?) in the Championship. The latter, is the inevitable result of the former, if you get my drift. And could well be to the detriment of the young guns in terms of being overplayed too soon .
In fact, everything comes back to the main reason why we are where we are. All the excuses, all the rose tinted specs that Specsavers could provide & all the "if onlys " are meaningless..... Words that we, the fans use when we're trying hard to defend our team & their performances. Alas, those words are becoming almost redundant now as our inadequacies are there for all to see.
The only words we should be using now are " Roland Out ! " All other words, all this talk of talking with the current regime has to be shown the red card NOW. It's only delaying the inevitable - this man is not for turning.
For the sake of those players who give their all but who must be totally depressed by the place they find themselves in tonight and especially for those ex Academy lads who have been thrown into this unholy mess, but most of all for the future of our Club , something has to change NOW.
Every week we lose more supporters. Every week, those of us who try to keep the faith by turning up, are losing another degree of hope. Every week we are slipping further into the abyss. And it must stop.
I can't believe ( or rather I won't believe) that there is nothing we can do to fight this disease that's crippling every aspect of our beloved Club. There must be a way as I stated once before, to find RD's Achilles' heel and puncture it big time. I'm not calling out for a hero, or a miraculous appearance by the Good Fairy to make it all disappear with one waft of her wand but for the most cunning plan ever. Surely the spirit of the Valley Party can be revived ?
I know what my New Year's Resolution will be ( and it doesn't involve wine!)
And I hope yours will be the same...
(Apologies if this isn't what you want to see on the Post Match Thread, AFKA but there it is )
Comments
What happened after then was depressingly inevitable. A corner routine caught us half asleep and the ball was deflected in. Then, with the team in complete disarray, Gray stroked home the third; 10 minutes in to the second half and the game was already over. Heaton was forced into a decent save soon afterwards (he had also done well to tip a fierce drive from Jackson over in the first half), but the fourth eventually came, the ball rolling slowly beyond the reach of Henderson into the corner from Sam Vokes.
In terms of individual performances, no-one comes out of today with any credit. Makienok was better than he has been recently, but that's not saying much. Reza looks far more threatening than he actually is and needs to learn how to use his right foot. Special mention, however, should go to Bergdich for the most inept performance I've ever seen from a substitute. We would genuinely have been better off with 10 men.
We are at least consistent, in that we play OK for a chunk of the game, only to be absolutely appalling for the rest of it. If we don't score in our 'good' spell we stand no chance whatsoever of getting anything from the game. And once we concede, our heads drop and more often than not we go on to concede more. Essentially it boils down to not having enough fighters in the squad - as much as he makes it very easy to dislike him, Joey Barton is the kind of player we desperately need. But it is also a sign of incompetent management, the kind of management our owner seems to specialise in.
It is of course a Charlton tradition to lose heavily in the North West. Before Roland took over, these defeats felt like one of those things that just happened because it was the way of the world. Now, though, it feels symptomatic of the wider malaise this club is currently enduring. A malaise which, without a radical rethink and overhaul in January, will see us relegated.
Weather ? .. hard rain and cold wind for 90 minutes ... referee ? good ... our manager ? .. positive attacking line up, tactics ? .. nothing bizarre .. substitutions ? .. if the last two were 'tactical', baffling, we will know sooner or later
Vaz Te was hurt in the first few minutes, soldiered on for a bit, after he went off we showed little up front .. only hope that the injury is not too bad .. I fear the worst to be quite honest, given our recent crop of crocks
Reza .. skilful but no finish, Makienok .. improved in the air, no finish, Ahearne -Grant was ineffective .. all strikers were against two top centre backs and we had little out wide, Fox & Solly rarely got forward
Midfield .. Jackson outpaced and anonymous, Cousins outclassed but worked hard, Diarra the best of the bunch .. went off as did Bauer ... were they injured, tactically removed or simply broken hearted ?
Henderson was himself, solid as a rock .. he went ballistic at (I think) Ahearne -Grant after the first goal when Burnley broke away from a terrible corner, he had no chance for any of the goals, one scrambled and three well crafted and finished.
Defence was static, indecisive and pulled around by the powerful and positive Burnley attack. Hate to say it .. Barton was terrific as was Marney ... Arfield, the other attacking midfielder scored two
To sum up just like two years ago we were overpowered and basically mullered by a powerful team that is back in form, alas at our expense. Our team was outclassed but importantly never gave up and showed a few positive signs .. BUT .. the season rolls on quickly and we need some points VERY soon
The icing on the burnt cake ? .. I get back to the hotel and have to put up with the cretinous Savage and/or the mouth Collymoor on the radio .. what a feckin 'orrible afternoon/evening
The players will feel really motivated for the next match.
Annoying thing about it all is that our actually feel the basic squad has potential. The leadership and depth is a fucking disgrace tho.
Just seen the goals on sky sports and the defending is atrocious. I know you don't get the whole picture from highlights but it genuinely seems as though this is the worst defence we have had (collectively) for a couple of decades.
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/sport/14157111.Karel_Fraeye_issues_warning_to_Charlton_players_after_4_0_loss_at_Burnley/
Sadly I think its League One next year.
Make the decisions that need to be made?
We know they don't make any decisions that need to be made.
You can threaten players if there are others to come in to replace them but certainly not with U18 players
Just hope he hasn't any say in the players we simply must get in next month. He scouted most of the shite we have. Don't think José Mourinho could get us out of the abyss we are falling down.
"It's a mental thing for sure"
"the mentality is good"
Also players need to be looking over their shoulders despite him later noting that they gave everything and are a young team.
So, Karel are you now saying that the squad maybe isn't good enough? And where are those smiles on their faces that you mentioned a few months ago?
He's probably a very nice chap but I can't help but build up a real dislike for KF with all this twaddle he comes out with.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/35141400
Nicking a living comes to mind.
The goals here. Charlton chances didn't look particularly clear cut. Gray missed a sitter in the first half before Burnley scored the first. The second is woeful defending and the edge of the box was left completely free. The third was exceptionally poor. Couple of comedy moments of Charlton players leaping for a ball that they completely missed, leaving them dumped on the backside as the play went forward. The missed tackle that nearly led to a fifth was impressive was as well. The worrying thing is how resigned and accepting of defeat as normal the players looked. No fight left in them.
First half, I thought we put some decent moves together and was impressed by Mak and some of the runs Reza was making. We could of easily of come in 1 up. Diarra was having to play very deep due to the lack of presence of both Lennon and Fox. He was doing a good job but not the one he was meant to be doing in midfield. I did find the negativity of the supporters a bit dispiriting, singing 'we never win away' after the first ten minutes of the game at 0-0 is not exactly a great song for our goalie to be serenaded by.
Solly put in the usual good shift. The centre of midfield concerns me a lot. Cousins sometimes seems in a different world and JJ seems ineffectual and half hearted. I think Burnley realised that any balls with pace into our area we would struggle with and when their first goal did eventually come it was a bit inevitable. The 2nd half felt a bit like playing a kick around match at the rec when half your team go home early and your just desperately trying to play on but losing badly, very badly. A mixture of knackered players and bad substitutions.
An input of talented, strong and experienced players is the only way out of this.
“It’s very concerning but this game we won’t win any more so we just look to the next. We go and travel to Bristol on Saturday and there are no more points to win then.”
Its put as a direct quote. I am hoping that London 24 have misquoted here.
Not much to add that others have not already said, up until they scored I thought just maybe we could be on a for a one nil smash and grab but that second half..........
I just feel sorry for a lot of our players as many are either just out of their depth or too young, they should not be being forced into the squad so early in their careers.
If you has asked me before the Leeds game, despite my pessimism about everything Charlton related right now, I genuinely thought we would have enough to just about keep our heads above water to avoid relegation this season but no doubt in my mind that we are going down unless we sign experienced championship on pitch leaders in January but more important, the first bit of business, we need a real manager, someone the players can actually respect because they have earned it.
“The players had the chance to do something about that and if they can’t then it’s up to the club to make the decisions that have to be made." Hmm. Who at the club? Meire? She knows even less about football than KF.
As for “It is amazing the way we conceded the goals" ... sounds pretty much like a fan rather than the man in charge of the sinking ship.
No coincidence every Burnley attack came down Fox's side. He had a shocker today.
Bergdich is even worse.
Vaz Te easily our best player before he got injured. Just shows what a bit of experience can do for you. Reza looked energetic and was trying to get play going and didn't give up.
I don't recognise this club anymore. We have to get rid of them. League One may not be the end.
But as has happened time after time this season, another injury disrupts our "game plan" ( at least I trust there was one ) , a deflection puts the home side one up and the rest is history. Add a further injury or three & basically, we are stuffed tighter than our Christmas turkey.
But although these are facts, NOTHING takes away the most important one that we are severely hampered by the paucity of our squad and our bench is thin to the point of transparency. Coupled with the inexperience & naivety of our managers , it's a recipe for disaster.
I hate to criticise our players but as others have rightly stated, we have too many out of their depth or too young to compete at this level week in , week out. The former should NOT have been allowed to happen - especially if KF was the scout who recommended them to our owner - but once again, this is the result of a head honcho and his minions having no experience ( or interest ?) in the Championship. The latter, is the inevitable result of the former, if you get my drift. And could well be to the detriment of the young guns in terms of being overplayed too soon .
In fact, everything comes back to the main reason why we are where we are. All the excuses, all the rose tinted specs that Specsavers could provide & all the "if onlys " are meaningless..... Words that we, the fans use when we're trying hard to defend our team & their performances. Alas, those words are becoming almost redundant now as our inadequacies are there for all to see.
The only words we should be using now are " Roland Out ! " All other words, all this talk of talking with the current regime has to be shown the red card NOW. It's only delaying the inevitable - this man is not for turning.
For the sake of those players who give their all but who must be totally depressed by the place they find themselves in tonight and especially for those ex Academy lads who have been thrown into this unholy mess, but most of all for the future of our Club , something has to change NOW.
Every week we lose more supporters. Every week, those of us who try to keep the faith by turning up, are losing another degree of hope. Every week we are slipping further into the abyss. And it must stop.
I can't believe ( or rather I won't believe) that there is nothing we can do to fight this disease that's crippling every aspect of our beloved Club. There must be a way as I stated once before, to find RD's Achilles' heel and puncture it big time. I'm not calling out for a hero, or a miraculous appearance by the Good Fairy to make it all disappear with one waft of her wand but for the most cunning plan ever. Surely the spirit of the Valley Party can be revived ?
I know what my New Year's Resolution will be ( and it doesn't involve wine!)
And I hope yours will be the same...
(Apologies if this isn't what you want to see on the Post Match Thread, AFKA but there it is )