As has been very clear with my previous posts, I have supported the network concept (pre-FFP fiasco) and given backing to the owner and CEO.
After last night I can no longer do this. I unfortunately have to agree that there is absolutely no vision, and RD is experimenting with our future to satisfy his ego.
Even though I was there, Woolwich town hall last year was too soon and not appropriate ...at least that was my view. But we are now in a very different scenario and action is needed.
To be in a position where I am not looking forward to going to the game on Saturday is so wrong.
I am in, completely and totally! whatever needs doing I want to be involved too, fed up of this situation and seeing the club i've loved since 1994 on its knees, can we change the forum colours to black and white as well?? is that possible?
Laudable sentiments, Ben, and ones I would support. I do have concerns though, expressed by kentred2, that there does need to be an 'or else'. There is no reason why the club would all of a sudden start to listen and share unless there were consequences. What they share may confirm what our fears are anyway that they have no ambition for the club other than to hopefully stay in tier 2 and develop talent to sell on. If we slip to tier 3 the value of academy talent diminishes. Prem sides occasionally take a punt on a promising Championship youngster - less so a League 1 youngster.
In the absence of clarity from RD it's safe to assume that we are right in our fears - that being the case we need to change their strategy or change the owners. It's almost a 'why bother to ask if we know what the answers will be'. We've already asked and have been deafened by silence.
Direct action is needed as well - instead of just asking what their plans are, we say we don't like what they are doing. Every match filled with mainly one song being sung on a loop - We want our Charlton Back. Demonstrations (peaceful) outside the West Stand. Maybe the 'too nice' Charlton fans need to take the gloves off. Make it as uncomfortable as possible for the owners.
There will be a few on here who will say 'you've changed your tune, Bob' - everyone has a breaking point.
The consequence is already here. Support is falling and will continue to fall.
No campaign can promise that people will boycott or demonstrate as it can't control people. Many will turn up regardless.
Individuals can say that they won't renew or buy match tickets but that has to come in a letter or email to KM setting out the four actions and saying this is what I will do as an individual.
But as a collective the fan base is shrinking already. The four actions are all linked to addressing that via better comms, better understanding of the plan, better complaints handling and so better customer service and better marketing.
The consequence is already here. Support is falling and will continue to fall.
No campaign can promise that people will boycott or demonstrate as it can't control people. Many will turn up regardless.
Individuals can say that they won't renew or buy match tickets but that has to come in a letter or email to KM setting out the four actions and saying this is what I will do as an individual.
But as a collective the fan base is shrinking already. The four actions are all linked to addressing that via better comms, better understanding of the plan, better complaints handling and so better customer service and better marketing.
Better customer service and marketing? Well that's the scoreboard and meal deals sorted. What about ambition and football?
You are right about a boycott though. As I saw in the west stand last night people will go whatever because that is what they do ..
I'm not sure what answers you're expecting but it would be very easy to give you all that you've asked for.........and then what?
- That by the end of the current season the board spell out exactly and with time frames and budgets what the business plan is for Charlton Athletic Within 3 years we want to be in the Premier League. Can't give out precise budgets as they change regularly, sorry.
- That by the end of the current season the club opens meaningful and two way dialogue with fans through public meetings attended by board members, regular articles on the clubs OS and any other avenues they choose. Of course we can provide you with more waffle.
- That the club immediately bring in and follows a policy of 100% response to all non-abusive letters and emails from fans and that the club publishes a list of senior managers with their emails so fans can contact the correct person directly. We cannot possibly reply to all letters and emails as we have a football club to run (totally understandable). Of course you can have the senior managers email addresses but i can't promise they'll reply to you (as above).
- That the club create, by March 2016, and publicly invite membership from the fan base for a marketing working group to work towards having 20,000 gates at the Valley on a regular basis. Let's work together on this. This can be discussed at the waffle meetings mentioned above.
Laudable sentiments, Ben, and ones I would support. I do have concerns though, expressed by kentred2, that there does need to be an 'or else'. There is no reason why the club would all of a sudden start to listen and share unless there were consequences. What they share may confirm what our fears are anyway that they have no ambition for the club other than to hopefully stay in tier 2 and develop talent to sell on. If we slip to tier 3 the value of academy talent diminishes. Prem sides occasionally take a punt on a promising Championship youngster - less so a League 1 youngster.
In the absence of clarity from RD it's safe to assume that we are right in our fears - that being the case we need to change their strategy or change the owners. It's almost a 'why bother to ask if we know what the answers will be'. We've already asked and have been deafened by silence.
Direct action is needed as well - instead of just asking what their plans are, we say we don't like what they are doing. Every match filled with mainly one song being sung on a loop - We want our Charlton Back. Demonstrations (peaceful) outside the West Stand. Maybe the 'too nice' Charlton fans need to take the gloves off. Make it as uncomfortable as possible for the owners.
There will be a few on here who will say 'you've changed your tune, Bob' - everyone has a breaking point.
It's interesting to see more and more people changing their point of view. I wonder if the Woolwich meeting earlier in the year came a little bit too early and there were still many people who were willing to give the hierarchy a little longer. I personally think they have had long enough and have consistently showed their hands in respect to how they want to run the club. It's obviously not working. Whilst we might have good spells throughout a season IF we have a full squad to pick from, the moment we get the inevitable injuries, things will always fall apart. At the very least we need a squad that is capable of coping with all the ills that a full season in football can throw at you. Injuries, suspensions, dips in form etc are all par for the course. You have to anticipate these and have some level of squad depth to be able to navigate through these minefields.
What RD and KM need to understand is that if they get the basics right, the fans will be content. They may not have the full support for the fans for various reasons, but if the team is doing ok on the pitch, most fans are happy. They say their long term goal is Premiership status, but they are yet to prove that they are working towards this goal. The lack of investment in the squad is what needs addressing first. Whilst many feel Luzon is not the man for the job, you have to wonder how most other managers would cope in similar circumstances. Maybe a more experienced manager might do slightly better, this would only gloss over the fact that the squad is still inadequate.
If we are to believe that the hierarchy want to slowly build towards promotion, we need to have a squad that is capable of finishing this division comfortably above the relegation places. Once we have that, maybe we can then add some players so we can have a comfortable mid-table finish. Eventually we will have a squad that can challenge for a play-off spot, or better. They need to show us that they have a plan, they can say all they want, but so far, all I have seen is a Club that bumble on from one season to the next in a completely clueless fashion. I have no problem with KM and RD's plans to move us forward 'organically', but I'm yet to see evidence of this in any shape or form.
It's clear to me, on the evidence that we have, that all the hierarchy want is us to survive in this division as cheaply as possible whilst they build the new academy. Their hope them seems to be to attract some hot prospects to our shiny new facilities and move them on for profit. RD has never been shy in stating that he believes money can be made from football if things are done differently. Unfortunately he seems to miss the point that if we are in League One, regardless of our lovely new training ground, we aren't going to attract any players of worth to this Club.
It has to end with a show of solidarity from the fans. The thing that irks me most about this regime, even more than the arrogance of assuming that they have a wonderful plan that everyone else was too stupid to think of, is their utter disregard for the fans. If that show is the much mocked boycott, then as a final response to an ongoing contempt for the fans, I’m in.
“He [the owner] does it his way and they need to accept that.” says Katrien.
You know what Ms Meire? No, we f*cking don't. RD and KM are custodians of our club and the sooner they realise that the better. Sky have little interest in airing us more often than they are contractually obliged to, so TV revenue is limited. That given, I wish Roland luck in finding break even when faced with an empty stadium each week. When no-one gives a sh!t enough to buy any merchandise or hospitality. When they can't sell advertising because there'll be no-one there to see it. When they can't attract top youth talent to sell on at a premium because they have no meaningful shop window in which to flaunt them and the prospect of playing in front of empty seats each week prevents the best of the crop from signing any meaningful contracts anyway. When they can't sell sponsorship because brands don't want their name associated with a regime that is ruining an institution. My message to you Mr Duchatelet, football clubs do not work without fans. The fans are the lifeblood of any football club, particularly outside of the top tier. It is not a normal business, for better or worse, and often both, we are not normal customers.
Arrogance is much harder to argue with when coupled with success, it is true that however much their attitude and methods might leave a bitter taste, they would face only grumbling resistance if we were winning games. Unfortunately their reign is associated only with naivety (bordering on stupidity and deceit at times) and abject failure. Some of the sums rumoured to have been spent on the 'talent' that has been thrust our way since they took over show not a shrewd business man but a stubborn fool, wantonly wasting the scarce resources that he is prepared to make available for his project, predicated on an assumption that he knows more about everything than everyone because he can run a successful electronics business.
Last night an out of form team of relegation candidates came to The Valley and we made them look like they were Barcelona in their pomp. The game is up Roland, if not this then I don’t know what evidence you need to see that will convince you that on all things football, you clearly do NOT know best.
The consequence is already here. Support is falling and will continue to fall.
No campaign can promise that people will boycott or demonstrate as it can't control people. Many will turn up regardless.
Individuals can say that they won't renew or buy match tickets but that has to come in a letter or email to KM setting out the four actions and saying this is what I will do as an individual.
But as a collective the fan base is shrinking already. The four actions are all linked to addressing that via better comms, better understanding of the plan, better complaints handling and so better customer service and better marketing.
Wouldn't disagree with any of that.
I would certainly not support a deliberate boycott - if anything I would want bigger crowds at The Valley with their focus on making it uncomfortable for the owners, and in addition to 'Spell it Out', not instead of it.
We (the Trust) sent a nice note to KM asking to discuss the falling support and were rebuffed, we then conceded to calls for a meeting in Woolwich, after the announcement of that meeting a fairly poor PR campaign happened and some equally daft and I felt offensive comments about a breach of Trust were made, sounding all too similar to previous attempts by certain persons to try and discredit the group.
After many years of toiling to establish the Trust, and make the positive arguments for an open collaboration which we did achieve a little of in name at least under Jimenez and co, I was worn out, and also by then completely convinced the new ownership would never be interested in meaningful dialogue/partnership with an organised fan group, and this was part of the reason I left - I felt someone else should take a fresh look at it, and will be very happily proved wrong if it ever happens. For me however their whole approach rejects this sort of collaboration and regards fans with at best arms length lip service, to at worst deep suspicion and mistrust.
But enough of that. To me the only chance of something like this achieving success is through unity, and as Bart says under the auspices of a group like the Trust. If you go the 'G21 route' (which I personally think was blown out of proportion) again, it will undermine the democratic element. Control of any message is also important, rather than it appearing to some like a big rant fest.. and I feel we could have done more during and after Woolwich on that (my bad), but something easily done when trying to give fans a voice, rather than speak for them.
So by all means do this, but do it right egos aside.
In the longer term I think the Trust needs to grow and look to the future, perhaps take in the VIPs who've been cast aside so easily.
To me the Roland experiment is not at all stable. He will never get a return on his investment like he has at Liege, without reaching the Premiership, and that isn't likely to happen under his ideas, and that worries me about the future of our club, ground etc. We need a Trust we can all get behind for the longer term, perhaps raising money to buy into the Freehold of the Valley, or maybe the pitch for example should the opportunity arise, to ensure a say in the future of our club.
The best time to organize any show of solidarity of the fans against the present owners, would be the Ipswich game with the Sky showing the game live. The fans could have 15mins of fame before the EP league game kicks off.
The best time to organize any show of solidarity of the fans against the present owners, would be the Ipswich game with the Sky showing the game live. The fans could have 15mins of fame before the ELP league game kicks off.
This. Can we try and get t shirts/scarves organised by then?
The best time to organize any show of solidarity of the fans against the present owners, would be the Ipswich game with the Sky showing the game live. The fans could have 15mins of fame before the ELP league game kicks off.
This. Can we try and get t shirts/scarves organised by then?
Banners at away games and home if you can get them in. They can't confiscate all of them.
Agreed.
While this is all so fresh with last nights debacle, this is going to be one of the best times to get everybody on board.
I wrote a post recently saying that I was very indifferent about the current board. Bollocks to that, they're not doing well enough.
Something needs to change, desperately.
People will say that it's pointless, the owners don't care and won't change. Well, if we do nothing and just sit back and watch then of course that's going to happen. At least go down trying!
Hitler would have never stopped if someone didn't stop him! (In my eyes RD has likenesses to Adolf) Great point, absolute scandal how there is no connection between Board + Team + Fans,
JJ doing a video saying 'please turn up, so we can afford the stewards' doesn't quite cut it !
boycotting games isn't the answer for me - this mess isn't the teams fault nor the manager, if anything they need our support more now than ever....
I like the idea of the black n white theme....but I'd like to see everyone who can possibly get along Saturday to turn up and cheer the team on (yes I was fed up last night but I'll be there with bells on come Saturday lunchtime), wear as much black and white as you want to !
whatever happens I don't want to see us playing in league 1 again and I know that with a fit squad that won't happen.
The best time to organize any show of solidarity of the fans against the present owners, would be the Ipswich game with the Sky showing the game live. The fans could have 15mins of fame before the ELP league game kicks off.
boycotting games isn't the answer for me - this mess isn't the teams fault nor the manager, if anything they need our support more now than ever....
I like the idea of the black n white theme....but I'd like to see everyone who can possibly get along Saturday to turn up and cheer the team on (yes I was fed up last night but I'll be there with bells on come Saturday lunchtime), wear as much black and white as you want to !
whatever happens I don't want to see us playing in league 1 again and I know that with a fit squad that won't happen.
That's a great idea. Let's just go along in greater numbers and support the team til we are hoarse. That will show the incompetent Belgians we want change.
Comments
As has been very clear with my previous posts, I have supported the network concept (pre-FFP fiasco) and given backing to the owner and CEO.
After last night I can no longer do this. I unfortunately have to agree that there is absolutely no vision, and RD is experimenting with our future to satisfy his ego.
Even though I was there, Woolwich town hall last year was too soon and not appropriate ...at least that was my view. But we are now in a very different scenario and action is needed.
To be in a position where I am not looking forward to going to the game on Saturday is so wrong.
In the absence of clarity from RD it's safe to assume that we are right in our fears - that being the case we need to change their strategy or change the owners. It's almost a 'why bother to ask if we know what the answers will be'. We've already asked and have been deafened by silence.
Direct action is needed as well - instead of just asking what their plans are, we say we don't like what they are doing. Every match filled with mainly one song being sung on a loop - We want our Charlton Back. Demonstrations (peaceful) outside the West Stand. Maybe the 'too nice' Charlton fans need to take the gloves off. Make it as uncomfortable as possible for the owners.
There will be a few on here who will say 'you've changed your tune, Bob' - everyone has a breaking point.
No campaign can promise that people will boycott or demonstrate as it can't control people. Many will turn up regardless.
Individuals can say that they won't renew or buy match tickets but that has to come in a letter or email to KM setting out the four actions and saying this is what I will do as an individual.
But as a collective the fan base is shrinking already. The four actions are all linked to addressing that via better comms, better understanding of the plan, better complaints handling and so better customer service and better marketing.
LINK
You are right about a boycott though. As I saw in the west stand last night people will go whatever because that is what they do
..
- That by the end of the current season the board spell out exactly and with time frames and budgets what the business plan is for Charlton Athletic
Within 3 years we want to be in the Premier League. Can't give out precise budgets as they change regularly, sorry.
- That by the end of the current season the club opens meaningful and two way dialogue with fans through public meetings attended by board members, regular articles on the clubs OS and any other avenues they choose.
Of course we can provide you with more waffle.
- That the club immediately bring in and follows a policy of 100% response to all non-abusive letters and emails from fans and that the club publishes a list of senior managers with their emails so fans can contact the correct person directly.
We cannot possibly reply to all letters and emails as we have a football club to run (totally understandable). Of course you can have the senior managers email addresses but i can't promise they'll reply to you (as above).
- That the club create, by March 2016, and publicly invite membership from the fan base for a marketing working group to work towards having 20,000 gates at the Valley on a regular basis.
Let's work together on this. This can be discussed at the waffle meetings mentioned above.
Thanks for your time. Enjoy the season ahead.
What RD and KM need to understand is that if they get the basics right, the fans will be content. They may not have the full support for the fans for various reasons, but if the team is doing ok on the pitch, most fans are happy. They say their long term goal is Premiership status, but they are yet to prove that they are working towards this goal. The lack of investment in the squad is what needs addressing first. Whilst many feel Luzon is not the man for the job, you have to wonder how most other managers would cope in similar circumstances. Maybe a more experienced manager might do slightly better, this would only gloss over the fact that the squad is still inadequate.
If we are to believe that the hierarchy want to slowly build towards promotion, we need to have a squad that is capable of finishing this division comfortably above the relegation places. Once we have that, maybe we can then add some players so we can have a comfortable mid-table finish. Eventually we will have a squad that can challenge for a play-off spot, or better. They need to show us that they have a plan, they can say all they want, but so far, all I have seen is a Club that bumble on from one season to the next in a completely clueless fashion. I have no problem with KM and RD's plans to move us forward 'organically', but I'm yet to see evidence of this in any shape or form.
It's clear to me, on the evidence that we have, that all the hierarchy want is us to survive in this division as cheaply as possible whilst they build the new academy. Their hope them seems to be to attract some hot prospects to our shiny new facilities and move them on for profit. RD has never been shy in stating that he believes money can be made from football if things are done differently. Unfortunately he seems to miss the point that if we are in League One, regardless of our lovely new training ground, we aren't going to attract any players of worth to this Club.
Sorry for the long post...
“He [the owner] does it his way and they need to accept that.” says Katrien.
You know what Ms Meire? No, we f*cking don't. RD and KM are custodians of our club and the sooner they realise that the better. Sky have little interest in airing us more often than they are contractually obliged to, so TV revenue is limited. That given, I wish Roland luck in finding break even when faced with an empty stadium each week. When no-one gives a sh!t enough to buy any merchandise or hospitality. When they can't sell advertising because there'll be no-one there to see it. When they can't attract top youth talent to sell on at a premium because they have no meaningful shop window in which to flaunt them and the prospect of playing in front of empty seats each week prevents the best of the crop from signing any meaningful contracts anyway. When they can't sell sponsorship because brands don't want their name associated with a regime that is ruining an institution. My message to you Mr Duchatelet, football clubs do not work without fans. The fans are the lifeblood of any football club, particularly outside of the top tier. It is not a normal business, for better or worse, and often both, we are not normal customers.
Arrogance is much harder to argue with when coupled with success, it is true that however much their attitude and methods might leave a bitter taste, they would face only grumbling resistance if we were winning games. Unfortunately their reign is associated only with naivety (bordering on stupidity and deceit at times) and abject failure. Some of the sums rumoured to have been spent on the 'talent' that has been thrust our way since they took over show not a shrewd business man but a stubborn fool, wantonly wasting the scarce resources that he is prepared to make available for his project, predicated on an assumption that he knows more about everything than everyone because he can run a successful electronics business.
Last night an out of form team of relegation candidates came to The Valley and we made them look like they were Barcelona in their pomp. The game is up Roland, if not this then I don’t know what evidence you need to see that will convince you that on all things football, you clearly do NOT know best.
I would certainly not support a deliberate boycott - if anything I would want bigger crowds at The Valley with their focus on making it uncomfortable for the owners, and in addition to 'Spell it Out', not instead of it.
After many years of toiling to establish the Trust, and make the positive arguments for an open collaboration which we did achieve a little of in name at least under Jimenez and co, I was worn out, and also by then completely convinced the new ownership would never be interested in meaningful dialogue/partnership with an organised fan group, and this was part of the reason I left - I felt someone else should take a fresh look at it, and will be very happily proved wrong if it ever happens. For me however their whole approach rejects this sort of collaboration and regards fans with at best arms length lip service, to at worst deep suspicion and mistrust.
But enough of that. To me the only chance of something like this achieving success is through unity, and as Bart says under the auspices of a group like the Trust. If you go the 'G21 route' (which I personally think was blown out of proportion) again, it will undermine the democratic element. Control of any message is also important, rather than it appearing to some like a big rant fest.. and I feel we could have done more during and after Woolwich on that (my bad), but something easily done when trying to give fans a voice, rather than speak for them.
So by all means do this, but do it right egos aside.
In the longer term I think the Trust needs to grow and look to the future, perhaps take in the VIPs who've been cast aside so easily.
To me the Roland experiment is not at all stable. He will never get a return on his investment like he has at Liege, without reaching the Premiership, and that isn't likely to happen under his ideas, and that worries me about the future of our club, ground etc. We need a Trust we can all get behind for the longer term, perhaps raising money to buy into the Freehold of the Valley, or maybe the pitch for example should the opportunity arise, to ensure a say in the future of our club.
JJ doing a video saying 'please turn up, so we can afford the stewards' doesn't quite cut it !
boycotting games isn't the answer for me - this mess isn't the teams fault nor the manager, if anything they need our support more now than ever....
I like the idea of the black n white theme....but I'd like to see everyone who can possibly get along Saturday to turn up and cheer the team on (yes I was fed up last night but I'll be there with bells on come Saturday lunchtime), wear as much black and white as you want to !
whatever happens I don't want to see us playing in league 1 again and I know that with a fit squad that won't happen.