The writing was on the wall from the start of the season with the thin squad. No pace on the wings, lack of a creative midfield, weakness at left midfield, no cover at right back, apart from inexperienced Cook or one of Charlton's best midfielder, Cousins. The lack of a decent additional striker, doesn't allow for strikers to recover properly from injury. The lack of striking options last season led to Vetekele being played when injured. The lack of strikers this season has forced Vetekele to be played before fully able to recover fitness and form. The aggravation of Makienok's injury at Huddersfield similar. The squad contains some quailty but is overall not strong enough for a competitive Championship season.
And not only do you know that and I know that but Luzon knows that.
I suspect Miere knows that too.
Whats the reasoning behind having a consistently under strength squad ? Particularly where it doesn't help assets retain their value - such as Vetekele, who has gone back wards from a good start at the club. Its a real flaw in the plan.
We don't know.
KM has said that RD believes that football clubs can be run in a different way ie not losing money. Originally that was based on the "network" producing savings but that proved to be full of flaws, costly flaws too, and no longer really exists or is mentioned by the club.
Financial Fair Play (FFP) was going to reduce other clubs' spending so we were competing on a slightly more level playing field. That has been blown away with clubs being allowed to overspend by £13m per season rather than £0m.
So RD sets a budget and we have to stick to it.
Only we don't as KM has already said we have gone over it and we would have gone further over if we'd had to pay the fee and wages from James Henry. Yet that money earmarked for Henry hasn't been spent elsewhere. Instead we have McAleny who I suspect was a much cheaper option but was still bought in after KM said we were over budget.
And that is over RDs budget NOT over the FFP limits. RD could spend more but chooses not to.
His money and his decision and I do believe that money isn't the only answer. Coaching, tactics, experience, leadership, team spirit, fitness, luck, all play a part but if other clubs are spending much more than they are likely to have more and better players with all those qualities. Especially if they have better contacts in English football and are so better able to find quality loans/deals.
The argument being made by some now is that this isn't our year and that we are building for next season or even the season after that. I haven't seen this said by KM or RD but it is a convenient rationalisation for not doing well this year. Only it doesn't work like that.
This would be fine if there was evidence of building a squad over those 2 or 3 seasons but that isn't the case. The turnover of players is large and often it is the first teamers that are leaving (Gomez, Buyens, Johnson, Bulot, Eagles) that leave.
So every season we start again. We've also started each of the last three seasons under RD with a different head coach and that's not counting Riga who never even got that far.
How can you plan long term and build stability when the likelihood is that there will be yet another head coach. A mid-table finishing position and demands to raise a set amount of money means that it is all change every summer?
RD is investing long term in Sparrows Lane and that is great but the new training ground won't be ready until just before the 2017/8 season. A decent pitch is a minimum requirement not a nice to have extra BTW.
We're producing good young players. But when they come into the team now it is too often in a struggling side. And rather than one young player slotting into an experienced side it is four or five playing because that all we have not because they are ready. And remember nearly all those players were with the club long before Roland.
The plan doesn't make sense and while people guess like to guess what it is or look for the positives (and there are positives) this whole situation could easily fixed.
RD and KM could tell us what the plan is and how it is going to work. That simple.
"You've got no right to know" "It's his club, he can do what he likes" "You put £££££ in and then you can know" will be the predictable and meaningless responses.
If KM wants to "build a better tomorrow together" then she and RD need to focus on the "together" bit. Try taking a leaf out of the Palace Chairman's book (and he's only doing what CAFC did years before) and try selling what you are doing to fans, tell us what you are doing, answer the difficult questions, explain, explain, explain.
Create a buzz about the club and its future, don't just expect all the fans to sit passively wanting for success.
It's not another meaningless "town hall" meeting she needs to worry about. That was all wind and noise. The real threats are the silent decisions to not renew that season ticket, to not bother with the shirt sponsorship or the lounge pass. Once those fans have stopped it is much, much harder than you think to get them back. That means less income, more empty seats and a lower budget and so the downward spiral continues.
A perfect summation. RD/KM will of course not reveal their plan, because they know the fans won't like it.
If they thought the fans would like the plan, they wouldn't be able to tell us quick enough.
Many fans will now say why are all the moaners, starting up again.
The reason of course, is that the moaners understand, that the hidden plan is a sham and that talk is cheap.
When we win a few games, the discontent gets surpressed, but once we start losing again, the underlying discontent resurfaces.
PS has Phil Chapple gone or is that a joke ?
Ultimately I suppose, if you don't like the owners, why go? Why put your money in their pocket?
Exactly. Which is why I gave up my season ticket and only go to away games.
We as Supporters as fast becoming the THFC of the championship. Win a game and it's all glory glory.... Lose and its sack the board, manager, players, tea lady etc...!!!!!
I tend to agree that there is over reaction both ways although it is more than one defeat now.
And I haven't seen much sack the board or manager yet.
For some reason, we changed the way we were playing after the Wolves game. In the opening five games, we played quick passing, direct football and pressed the opposition. We won the ball back high up the pitch and got at the opposition.
From the Rotherham game onwards, we've played sideways-backwards-sideways, before crossing the halfway line and sat off the opposition. Our style of play has changed and it's easily contained. It looks like the players are going through the motions.
Something has happened in the group to change the dynamics. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd guess that the players are not happy with the coach, for whatever reason. It wouldn't be the first time, the dressing room has got the manager/coach the sack.
As ever, an interesting insight.
How much to you believe the lack of certain players or the opposition playing against us in different ways are also factors?
As a professional football team, we should have two ways of playing and two players for each position. If we are gonna build up from the back and through midfield, you have to have the option of going longer if plan A is not working. The successful teams mix it up. You need the right personnel to be able to do both. If you haven't assembled a squad to cover both, you are very limited.
Who do we have to play CF when Big Mak is injured? TWWW drops off to collect to feet, Vetokele is a second striker & KAG is a front-runner who attacks the space in behind. Pigott is the only like for like change and he is at Southend. So the ball is not being held up in the front line and coming straight back. When we build up from the back, the opposition are blocking the areas to play into TWWW & JBG. So the ball goes back and across the B4, as individuals look for a pass forward but take the easy option to retain possession, because there isn't a forward pass. We have no midfield passer, Kashi, Ba, Cousins are all hard-working midfield runners. they ain't gonna hurt you with a defence splitting pass. Bergdich is too lightweight and not suited to the Championship. So stop JBG & TWWW and you stop Charlton.
We need a CF as an emergency loan. A CF holding the ball up and occupying the opposition CB's allows the team to move 20 yards further up the pitch, pushes the opposition B4 backwards and takes the pressure off our B4, who are not dealing with the ball constantly coming back at them. Is the coach/Chief Scout able to identify one and bring one in? Will they be allowed to?
However, I still think there is a dressing room issue. A team doesn't play that well in the opening 4 games and then so poorly in the next 5, without a good reason. What happened in the dressing room after the Rotherham/ Huddersfield games? Has the coach upset the players? A football dressing room is easily turned if the players are upset with the coach. Players will stick together to get a manager out.
The problem of having a thin squad is also apparent. We clearly don't have enough players and are having to call on untried kids. Harriott & Pigott would be better than Kennedy & McAlney, at least they have previous experience, even if they are both limited.
We as Supporters as fast becoming the THFC of the championship. Win a game and it's all glory glory.... Lose and its sack the board, manager, players, tea lady etc...!!!!!
I tend to agree that there is over reaction both ways although it is more than one defeat now.
And I haven't seen much sack the board or manager yet.
That tea lady though, she's got to go.
Her fault we lost the cup match.
I feel troubles brewing.
That is a capital idea I am told she takes the biscuit
Agree totally that we need a big, English, Championship acclimatised centre forward on loan.
What's Rob Hulse doing these days? (I don't, of course, actually mean we should sign a long retired Rob Hulse but we should be looking for someone like him. Chris Powell certainly knew what he was doing when he got him in on loan a couple of years ago).
For some reason, we changed the way we were playing after the Wolves game. In the opening five games, we played quick passing, direct football and pressed the opposition. We won the ball back high up the pitch and got at the opposition.
From the Rotherham game onwards, we've played sideways-backwards-sideways, before crossing the halfway line and sat off the opposition. Our style of play has changed and it's easily contained. It looks like the players are going through the motions.
Something has happened in the group to change the dynamics. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd guess that the players are not happy with the coach, for whatever reason. It wouldn't be the first time, the dressing room has got the manager/coach the sack.
As ever, an interesting insight.
How much to you believe the lack of certain players or the opposition playing against us in different ways are also factors?
As a professional football team, we should have two ways of playing and two players for each position. If we are gonna build up from the back and through midfield, you have to have the option of going longer if plan A is not working. The successful teams mix it up. You need the right personnel to be able to do both. If you haven't assembled a squad to cover both, you are very limited.
Who do we have to play CF when Big Mak is injured? TWWW drops off to collect to feet, Vetokele is a second striker & KAG is a front-runner who attacks the space in behind. Pigott is the only like for like change and he is at Southend. So the ball is not being held up in the front line and coming straight back. When we build up from the back, the opposition are blocking the areas to play into TWWW & JBG. So the ball goes back and across the B4, as individuals look for a pass forward but take the easy option to retain possession, because there isn't a forward pass. We have no midfield passer, Kashi, Ba, Cousins are all hard-working midfield runners. they ain't gonna hurt you with a defence splitting pass. Bergdich is too lightweight and not suited to the Championship. So stop JBG & TWWW and you stop Charlton.
We need a CF as an emergency loan. A CF holding the ball up and occupying the opposition CB's allows the team to move 20 yards further up the pitch, pushes the opposition B4 backwards and takes the pressure off our B4, who are not dealing with the ball constantly coming back at them. Is the coach/Chief Scout able to identify one and bring one in? Will they be allowed to?
However, I still think there is a dressing room issue. A team doesn't play that well in the opening 4 games and then so poorly in the next 5, without a good reason. What happened in the dressing room after the Rotherham/ Huddersfield games? Has the coach upset the players? A football dressing room is easily turned if the players are upset with the coach. Players will stick together to get a manager out.
The problem of having a thin squad is also apparent. We clearly don't have enough players and are having to call on untried kids. Harriott & Pigott would be better than Kennedy & McAlney, at least they have previous experience, even if they are both limited.
For some reason, we changed the way we were playing after the Wolves game. In the opening five games, we played quick passing, direct football and pressed the opposition. We won the ball back high up the pitch and got at the opposition.
From the Rotherham game onwards, we've played sideways-backwards-sideways, before crossing the halfway line and sat off the opposition. Our style of play has changed and it's easily contained. It looks like the players are going through the motions.
Something has happened in the group to change the dynamics. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd guess that the players are not happy with the coach, for whatever reason. It wouldn't be the first time, the dressing room has got the manager/coach the sack.
As ever, an interesting insight.
How much to you believe the lack of certain players or the opposition playing against us in different ways are also factors?
As a professional football team, we should have two ways of playing and two players for each position. If we are gonna build up from the back and through midfield, you have to have the option of going longer if plan A is not working. The successful teams mix it up. You need the right personnel to be able to do both. If you haven't assembled a squad to cover both, you are very limited.
Who do we have to play CF when Big Mak is injured? TWWW drops off to collect to feet, Vetokele is a second striker & KAG is a front-runner who attacks the space in behind. Pigott is the only like for like change and he is at Southend. So the ball is not being held up in the front line and coming straight back. When we build up from the back, the opposition are blocking the areas to play into TWWW & JBG. So the ball goes back and across the B4, as individuals look for a pass forward but take the easy option to retain possession, because there isn't a forward pass. We have no midfield passer, Kashi, Ba, Cousins are all hard-working midfield runners. they ain't gonna hurt you with a defence splitting pass. Bergdich is too lightweight and not suited to the Championship. So stop JBG & TWWW and you stop Charlton.
We need a CF as an emergency loan. A CF holding the ball up and occupying the opposition CB's allows the team to move 20 yards further up the pitch, pushes the opposition B4 backwards and takes the pressure off our B4, who are not dealing with the ball constantly coming back at them. Is the coach/Chief Scout able to identify one and bring one in? Will they be allowed to?
However, I still think there is a dressing room issue. A team doesn't play that well in the opening 4 games and then so poorly in the next 5, without a good reason. What happened in the dressing room after the Rotherham/ Huddersfield games? Has the coach upset the players? A football dressing room is easily turned if the players are upset with the coach. Players will stick together to get a manager out.
The problem of having a thin squad is also apparent. We clearly don't have enough players and are having to call on untried kids. Harriott & Pigott would be better than Kennedy & McAlney, at least they have previous experience, even if they are both limited.
Thanks for the detailed answer.
So after waiting 18 months to find a hold up CF after Y*** left we finally get one, he gets injured and we're buggered because we don't have any cover.
Even if we did have 12 injuries, that'd mean something is drastically wrong in training and/or our medical team is rubbish. 12 injuries wouldn't be down to bad luck only.
2 seasons on the trot we are 5 or 6 players short of a championship squad. Too many crappy foreigners who no one has ever heard for being brought in, in the hope that one or two may be decent so we can sell on for a profit. Too many crappy players again being brought on the cheap with the hope they are miraculously over their injuries problems.
It's like they are dangling a bit of cheese on a bit of string and every time we get a nibble and want more they move it away again and say fuck you thats your lot for a while. This is not just on the pitch with the squad its off the pitch too, Things like catering was supposed to be all brilliant then 5 minutes later just everyone was enjoying it, it went shit again. Programme sellers disappeared. The £10 voucher for west upper fans who had to be moved was an absolute shambles and even resolving it was a joke.
Pretty bored of it all at the minute.
Only few weeks back that Kashi was the bargain of the season , Big Mc was an idol of the fans all ready shall I go on .........
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
Then who would we support?
Bloody hell someone with sense on this forum
How do you think we are doing Colin? We have not won an away game since March. We are two points off a relegation spot. Confidence seems at rock bottom. Are you happy with that? Because you seem to find an excuse for everything bad that happens.
I know this will get the usual reaction from Damonorthstand, Darrenflapjack etc etc but Colin has to blindly back Riga, Peters and now Luzon regardless to maintain his belief that Powell was a terrrible manager. CP could do nothing right in his eyes and all his successors can therefore do no wrong.
Colin - TWELVE??????? OK I've got Mak, Hendo, JJ, Celebbos, Reza, C-Cook, Igor that's 7 of which JJ, Reza and C-Cook were not starters when fit but who are the other five and how is it Colin that you know so much more than the rest of us. Pray do tell
Henderson Solly Fox Diarra susoended Jackson Reza Tariq Dennis Watt Big Mc Vetokeke Charles cook Cellabros Moussa
All players injured or carrying an injury before Saturday game
Solly was fit as he played, Moussa was fit because he was on the bench. Holmes- Dennis was fit because he played the whole game for the U21s. Fox was fit because he played. Watt was fit because he played. All players play with minor injuries, it is a fact.
2 seasons on the trot we are 5 or 6 players short of a championship squad. Too many crappy foreigners who no one has ever heard for being brought in, in the hope that one or two may be decent so we can sell on for a profit. Too many crappy players again being brought on the cheap with the hope they are miraculously over their injuries problems.
It's like they are dangling a bit of cheese on a bit of string and every time we get a nibble and want more they move it away again and say fuck you thats your lot for a while. This is not just on the pitch with the squad its off the pitch too, Things like catering was supposed to be all brilliant then 5 minutes later just everyone was enjoying it, it went shit again. Programme sellers disappeared. The £10 voucher for west upper fans who had to be moved was an absolute shambles and even resolving it was a joke.
Pretty bored of it all at the minute.
Only few weeks back that Kashi was the bargain of the season , Big Mc was an idol of the fans all ready shall I go on .........
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
Then who would we support?
Bloody hell someone with sense on this forum
How do you think we are doing Colin? We have not won an away game since March. We are two points off a relegation spot. Confidence seems at rock bottom. Are you happy with that? Because you seem to find an excuse for everything bad that happens.
I know this will get the usual reaction from Damonorthstand, Darrenflapjack etc etc but Colin has to blindly back Riga, Peters and now Luzon regardless to maintain his belief that Powell was a terrrible manager. CP could do nothing right in his eyes and all his successors can therefore do no wrong.
Colin - TWELVE??????? OK I've got Mak, Hendo, JJ, Celebbos, Reza, C-Cook, Igor that's 7 of which JJ, Reza and C-Cook were not starters when fit but who are the other five and how is it Colin that you know so much more than the rest of us. Pray do tell
Henderson Solly Fox Diarra susoended Jackson Reza Tariq Dennis Watt Big Mc Vetokeke Charles cook Cellabros Moussa
All players injured or carrying an injury before Saturday game
Solly was fit as he played, Moussa was fit because he was on the bench. Holmes- Dennis was fit because he played the whole game for the U21s. Fox was fit because he played. Watt was fit because he played. All players play with minor injuries, it is a fact.
Whilst Reza, Dennis and Cook would not have been selected anyway.
For some reason, we changed the way we were playing after the Wolves game. In the opening five games, we played quick passing, direct football and pressed the opposition. We won the ball back high up the pitch and got at the opposition.
From the Rotherham game onwards, we've played sideways-backwards-sideways, before crossing the halfway line and sat off the opposition. Our style of play has changed and it's easily contained. It looks like the players are going through the motions.
Something has happened in the group to change the dynamics. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd guess that the players are not happy with the coach, for whatever reason. It wouldn't be the first time, the dressing room has got the manager/coach the sack.
As ever, an interesting insight.
How much to you believe the lack of certain players or the opposition playing against us in different ways are also factors?
As a professional football team, we should have two ways of playing and two players for each position. If we are gonna build up from the back and through midfield, you have to have the option of going longer if plan A is not working. The successful teams mix it up. You need the right personnel to be able to do both. If you haven't assembled a squad to cover both, you are very limited.
Who do we have to play CF when Big Mak is injured? TWWW drops off to collect to feet, Vetokele is a second striker & KAG is a front-runner who attacks the space in behind. Pigott is the only like for like change and he is at Southend. So the ball is not being held up in the front line and coming straight back. When we build up from the back, the opposition are blocking the areas to play into TWWW & JBG. So the ball goes back and across the B4, as individuals look for a pass forward but take the easy option to retain possession, because there isn't a forward pass. We have no midfield passer, Kashi, Ba, Cousins are all hard-working midfield runners. they ain't gonna hurt you with a defence splitting pass. Bergdich is too lightweight and not suited to the Championship. So stop JBG & TWWW and you stop Charlton.
We need a CF as an emergency loan. A CF holding the ball up and occupying the opposition CB's allows the team to move 20 yards further up the pitch, pushes the opposition B4 backwards and takes the pressure off our B4, who are not dealing with the ball constantly coming back at them. Is the coach/Chief Scout able to identify one and bring one in? Will they be allowed to?
However, I still think there is a dressing room issue. A team doesn't play that well in the opening 4 games and then so poorly in the next 5, without a good reason. What happened in the dressing room after the Rotherham/ Huddersfield games? Has the coach upset the players? A football dressing room is easily turned if the players are upset with the coach. Players will stick together to get a manager out.
The problem of having a thin squad is also apparent. We clearly don't have enough players and are having to call on untried kids. Harriott & Pigott would be better than Kennedy & McAlney, at least they have previous experience, even if they are both limited.
I love it when you talk technical. Always easy to understand, making perfect sense and leaving me with a feeling of '"why didn't I think/say that"? (Probably because I know bugger all).
Interesting question about what happened in the dressing room after Hudds and Roths. I'd ask what happened at half time? Up until that point in the season we seemed to come out better in the second half: More organised, more determined, playing better football. I really had a sense they Luzon knew what he was doing but needed the interval to get the message to the team. The last two home games have given me none of that though; same old rubbish in both halves.
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
Then who would we support?
Is this a genuine question? If so I'm going Orient.
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
Then who would we support?
Is this a genuine question? If so I'm going Orient.
We as Supporters as fast becoming the THFC of the championship. Win a game and it's all glory glory.... Lose and its sack the board, manager, players, tea lady etc...!!!!!
That is not true. The questions that are asked have been asked from day 1 of the Belgian's ownership.
Questions that good as disappeared whilst we were winning during Rigas heroics, Peeters early reign, GLs 'bounce' and start to this season
The pattern is clear, a thin squad with lots of players either unproven in the Championship or inexperienced youth teamers. A new manager lifts them for a while and then the pressure tells and we go on a losing run. The club management team panic,sack the coach and bring in some short term loans. Then round we go again. In the mean time the owner loses money because of lack of success and tries to make it up be selling promising young players. I am nearly done with this I must say. Under investment is a stupid and inept way to run any business. But when you are paying for 4 season tickets as I am it feels contemptuous and insulting. The point about comparing us with other better invested clubs in this division is that their fans are paying the same as we are for a better quality product.. If RD does not want to make this club work he should sell it to somebody who does.
Last season they avoided getting dragged into the relegation scrap as the signings they made after the window was shut worked. This is a very dangerous strategy (if that is what it is as I think they make it all up as they go along) as there is no guarantee that it will work again this season.
To return to the same policy as the start of last season and have such a small squad is bonkers and you do really have to question what they watch
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
The writing was on the wall from the start of the season with the thin squad. No pace on the wings, lack of a creative midfield, weakness at left midfield, no cover at right back, apart from inexperienced Cook or one of Charlton's best midfielder, Cousins. The lack of a decent additional striker, doesn't allow for strikers to recover properly from injury. The lack of striking options last season led to Vetekele being played when injured. The lack of strikers this season has forced Vetekele to be played before fully able to recover fitness and form. The aggravation of Makienok's injury at Huddersfield similar. The squad contains some quailty but is overall not strong enough for a competitive Championship season.
And not only do you know that and I know that but Luzon knows that.
I suspect Miere knows that too.
Whats the reasoning behind having a consistently under strength squad ? Particularly where it doesn't help assets retain their value - such as Vetekele, who has gone back wards from a good start at the club. Its a real flaw in the plan.
We don't know.
KM has said that RD believes that football clubs can be run in a different way ie not losing money. Originally that was based on the "network" producing savings but that proved to be full of flaws, costly flaws too, and no longer really exists or is mentioned by the club.
Financial Fair Play (FFP) was going to reduce other clubs' spending so we were competing on a slightly more level playing field. That has been blown away with clubs being allowed to overspend by £13m per season rather than £0m.
So RD sets a budget and we have to stick to it.
Only we don't as KM has already said we have gone over it and we would have gone further over if we'd had to pay the fee and wages from James Henry. Yet that money earmarked for Henry hasn't been spent elsewhere. Instead we have McAleny who I suspect was a much cheaper option but was still bought in after KM said we were over budget.
And that is over RDs budget NOT over the FFP limits. RD could spend more but chooses not to.
His money and his decision and I do believe that money isn't the only answer. Coaching, tactics, experience, leadership, team spirit, fitness, luck, all play a part but if other clubs are spending much more than they are likely to have more and better players with all those qualities. Especially if they have better contacts in English football and are so better able to find quality loans/deals.
The argument being made by some now is that this isn't our year and that we are building for next season or even the season after that. I haven't seen this said by KM or RD but it is a convenient rationalisation for not doing well this year. Only it doesn't work like that.
This would be fine if there was evidence of building a squad over those 2 or 3 seasons but that isn't the case. The turnover of players is large and often it is the first teamers that are leaving (Gomez, Buyens, Johnson, Bulot, Eagles) that leave.
So every season we start again. We've also started each of the last three seasons under RD with a different head coach and that's not counting Riga who never even got that far.
How can you plan long term and build stability when the likelihood is that there will be yet another head coach. A mid-table finishing position and demands to raise a set amount of money means that it is all change every summer?
RD is investing long term in Sparrows Lane and that is great but the new training ground won't be ready until just before the 2017/8 season. A decent pitch is a minimum requirement not a nice to have extra BTW.
We're producing good young players. But when they come into the team now it is too often in a struggling side. And rather than one young player slotting into an experienced side it is four or five playing because that all we have not because they are ready. And remember nearly all those players were with the club long before Roland.
The plan doesn't make sense and while people guess like to guess what it is or look for the positives (and there are positives) this whole situation could easily fixed.
RD and KM could tell us what the plan is and how it is going to work. That simple.
"You've got no right to know" "It's his club, he can do what he likes" "You put £££££ in and then you can know" will be the predictable and meaningless responses.
If KM wants to "build a better tomorrow together" then she and RD need to focus on the "together" bit. Try taking a leaf out of the Palace Chairman's book (and he's only doing what CAFC did years before) and try selling what you are doing to fans, tell us what you are doing, answer the difficult questions, explain, explain, explain.
Create a buzz about the club and its future, don't just expect all the fans to sit passively wanting for success.
It's not another meaningless "town hall" meeting she needs to worry about. That was all wind and noise. The real threats are the silent decisions to not renew that season ticket, to not bother with the shirt sponsorship or the lounge pass. Once those fans have stopped it is much, much harder than you think to get them back. That means less income, more empty seats and a lower budget and so the downward spiral continues.
A perfect summation. RD/KM will of course not reveal their plan, because they know the fans won't like it.
If they thought the fans would like the plan, they wouldn't be able to tell us quick enough.
Many fans will now say why are all the moaners, starting up again.
The reason of course, is that the moaners understand, that the hidden plan is a sham and that talk is cheap.
When we win a few games, the discontent gets surpressed, but once we start losing again, the underlying discontent resurfaces.
PS has Phil Chapple gone or is that a joke ?
Have they really got a plan though? It seems to me it's 'invest in youth, play youth players, see where we end up.'
For those who want to try and figure out RD, the interview with him in Trust News is worth reading. Its a translation (by @Weegie Addick) of an interview in de Morgen by Douglas de Coninck, who interviewed him several times, and corresponded with the Trust (still would, but he's a Standard fan,so...). RD's order to Douglas was 'no football' but it is still a revealing insight into the man. There are some clues..
One politically experienced CAFC fan who'd read it said simply "he's barking". Certainly he goes on about his political vision, and it is a confusing mixture of policies and theories which are not easily pigeon-holed as right or left. They are also policies which would be very difficult to "sell" at any time because they are a huge departure for most people from all they are used to. They would need a huge personal charisma and selling ability, to gain support.
When RD tried it himself, he got nowhere. Something like 1% support for his party. So he is not able to get across his ideas effectively to the public, and the article suggests that's because he thinks we are all too stupid to get them. He compares himself to Alan Turing, in the sense of being the man who cracked the code, and spends a lot of time attacking Thomas Piketty.
At one point he does allow himself some comment about football because the interview takes place at Szecin stadium. He looks at the ultra section and says "Many of the guests who's sit there are unemployed and have nothing else to do all day. They spend all their time on internet fora. (my emphasis) Suddenly they know everything about Standard. They have nothing better to do the whole day long. I cannot compete with that"
So it seems pretty clear that he will never see the point of talking to fan groups, even virtually. Katrien might feel differently, but she would still have to explain his policies.
As to the connection to our current situation , it's clear that he deplores what he thinks of as waste (of money). We know that he already thought far too much is wasted on transfer fees and agents. Personally I now think that he believes club squads are too big generally and that if you push people to manage them better, you do better with smaller squads. That isn't so radical. Anyone who works or has worked for a big company (especially publicly quoted) knows what it's like to be told from above "deliver with the team you have". I had quite high hopes in mid-August that he'd changed his mind and seen the higher level of both quality and quantity needed. It now looks like he probably heard the quality message but just imposed his "sweat the assets harder" mantra at the end of the window. Perhaps because of our good start.
The tragic thing is that he is definitely in no way a thief, slimebag, or crook, unlike many current English club owners. With just a little more investment, and a little more dialogue, he could now be enjoying a very different relationship with us than he ever did with the Standard fans. You might conclude from the article that he doesn't care either way what we think, but I am not sure that's true, even though his personality may not allow him to show it. You go into politics (at least in advanced European democracies) because you believe you can change things for people. That means at some point you seek the recognition of those people. I think deep down he wants Charlton to do well, and then for us to say "you know, RD, he was right after all. What a man"
Sadly, it does not look like its going to happen. And right now, I don't know what we can do about it.
How many times have we been relegated since they took over?
How many times have we been close to bankruptcy?
How many times have we been evicted from the ground and forced to share the worst stadium in the league?
In the last, say, seventy years, when has the pitch been properly invested in and been in better condition?
Since, say, the war*, when have we had better, realistic, funded, approved plans for training facilities? (Take your pick: Iraq, Falklands, WWII).
We may not be as high up in the football league as most of us want. But without the investment, stability and security that these people have brought to the club, there was always the possibility we wouldn't *be* in the football league.
Prague above references the interview in CAFC trust news which I read with increasing bewilderment.
I agree that RD is certainly not a prince of darkness, neither does he seem to me particularly philanthropic, he occupies a more specialised space.
The most alarming thing is he seems frustrated that others don't see what he sees, think the way he thinks, and he reckons he has unique understanding of the past ebbs and flows of society, and knows therefore how the future will look. One particularly striking example of how he would organise the world would be to accept people don't have to go to work, but that needn't matter, they should be given free money anyway.
The convoluted vision is clear in Roland's universe, but I fear pretty unintelligible to the rest of the world.
It's all very well being a visionary, but how you explain or communicate that vision is quite another thing, and RD does not do communication all that well, with one significant variation. He seems to say judge me on what I do rather than say. He may point to saving the club, the development of the academy infrastructure, new pitch, new seats, new electronic turnstyles, even to cost cutting whilst surviving in the division as what he should be judged on.
As fans we mainly judge by results on the field of play.
At the moment it feels so 'other' at the club as if we're in the grips of some kind of exotic phenomena, almost a cult.
For those who want to try and figure out RD, the interview with him in Trust News is worth reading. Its a translation (by @Weegie Addick) of an interview in de Morgen by Douglas de Coninck, who interviewed him several times, and corresponded with the Trust (still would, but he's a Standard fan,so...). RD's order to Douglas was 'no football' but it is still a revealing insight into the man. There are some clues..
One politically experienced CAFC fan who'd read it said simply "he's barking". Certainly he goes on about his political vision, and it is a confusing mixture of policies and theories which are not easily pigeon-holed as right or left. They are also policies which would be very difficult to "sell" at any time because they are a huge departure for most people from all they are used to. They would need a huge personal charisma and selling ability, to gain support.
When RD tried it himself, he got nowhere. Something like 1% support for his party. So he is not able to get across his ideas effectively to the public, and the article suggests that's because he thinks we are all too stupid to get them. He compares himself to Alan Turing, in the sense of being the man who cracked the code, and spends a lot of time attacking Thomas Piketty.
At one point he does allow himself some comment about football because the interview takes place at Szecin stadium. He looks at the ultra section and says "Many of the guests who's sit there are unemployed and have nothing else to do all day. They spend all their time on internet fora. (my emphasis) Suddenly they know everything about Standard. They have nothing better to do the whole day long. I cannot compete with that"
So it seems pretty clear that he will never see the point of talking to fan groups, even virtually. Katrien might feel differently, but she would still have to explain his policies.
As to the connection to our current situation , it's clear that he deplores what he thinks of as waste (of money). We know that he already thought far too much is wasted on transfer fees and agents. Personally I now think that he believes club squads are too big generally and that if you push people to manage them better, you do better with smaller squads. That isn't so radical. Anyone who works or has worked for a big company (especially publicly quoted) knows what it's like to be told from above "deliver with the team you have". I had quite high hopes in mid-August that he'd changed his mind and seen the higher level of both quality and quantity needed. It now looks like he probably heard the quality message but just imposed his "sweat the assets harder" mantra at the end of the window. Perhaps because of our good start.
The tragic thing is that he is definitely in no way a thief, slimebag, or crook, unlike many current English club owners. With just a little more investment, and a little more dialogue, he could now be enjoying a very different relationship with us than he ever did with the Standard fans. You might conclude from the article that he doesn't care either way what we think, but I am not sure that's true, even though his personality may not allow him to show it. You go into politics (at least in advanced European democracies) because you believe you can change things for people. That means at some point you seek the recognition of those people. I think deep down he wants Charlton to do well, and then for us to say "you know, RD, he was right after all. What a man"
Sadly, it does not look like its going to happen. And right now, I don't know what we can do about it.
A lot to agree with in your analysis. I also believe part of the problem facing RD is that the playing field is not flat. I do think that some of his ideas are sensible and they might be able to work if everyone was playing the game. The death of football fair play has seriously damaged his chances. How many weeks ago was it that Bristol City were being linked with bids of £12 million !!!!!!!!!!!!
Running a football club living within its means is sensible to me but hardly likely to achieve real success when faced with the ridiculous competition eg Bristol City.
The club is safe and secure but I think our footballing success is going to be slow, if ever and hugely frustrating.
Will that get the fans through the gates ? I don't think it will.
Well I have red the article quite a few times, and I still do not understand the 'philosophy' at least in a business sense. Aligning yourself to Alan Turling, or at least drawing a parallel is to say the least bizzare. Turling a genius of his generation, was also a tortured soul,who ended his life after chemical castration, by taking cyanide. A former editor of mine was a leading gay activist, ( illegal in those days) and claimed he was the cleverest man he had ever met, at least when it came to his field of expertise, which was pretty wide. I am sure RD regards himself as an original thinker, and yes he may be that, but I am no further in knowing the guy now then when I first heard of him. Which I get the impression he probably aspires to. So in conclusion I must be thicker than I thought, in that I just do not understand the man, or his business model. Wether his plans would have been different at another club, or if FFP had been the answer to the business model, who knows. Perhaps he can see an exit plan, in his 'blue sky thinking'. I tend to think some of his comments are rather vindictive and spiteful.
Something has changed. We started the season with a much better ability to keep teams out. Currently, if we go ahead away from home – we will need to do it late to get a point. Opponents seem to be able to score against us through attrition – unlike in the early games. Maybe we have been worked out a bit. But it feels to me at the moment like we find it a bit too hard to score goals and a bit too easy to concede them at the moment. That and poor form from some players – sometimes you need that bit of quality – that good touch, that good pass – but when we need them it is rare we find them. Possibly a confidence thing, but it can quickly turn into a crisis. Sunday will be a massive game for us.
As for KM and RD. Well, a lot of us were excited by the start and felt we had brought some good players in, but most people also realised the squad was too small. Injuries and lack of form has brought forwards the problems from late October time to September. But the gaps were always there. Last season, my heart sinking moment came when Fulham beat us 3-0. I could see the eleven we put out was not one a team that could challenge. And that has been apparent in our last few games! They haven’t got the answers. Not the ones we want to see anyway!
Comments
I feel troubles brewing.
Who do we have to play CF when Big Mak is injured? TWWW drops off to collect to feet, Vetokele is a second striker & KAG is a front-runner who attacks the space in behind. Pigott is the only like for like change and he is at Southend. So the ball is not being held up in the front line and coming straight back.
When we build up from the back, the opposition are blocking the areas to play into TWWW & JBG. So the ball goes back and across the B4, as individuals look for a pass forward but take the easy option to retain possession, because there isn't a forward pass. We have no midfield passer, Kashi, Ba, Cousins are all hard-working midfield runners. they ain't gonna hurt you with a defence splitting pass. Bergdich is too lightweight and not suited to the Championship. So stop JBG & TWWW and you stop Charlton.
We need a CF as an emergency loan. A CF holding the ball up and occupying the opposition CB's allows the team to move 20 yards further up the pitch, pushes the opposition B4 backwards and takes the pressure off our B4, who are not dealing with the ball constantly coming back at them. Is the coach/Chief Scout able to identify one and bring one in? Will they be allowed to?
However, I still think there is a dressing room issue. A team doesn't play that well in the opening 4 games and then so poorly in the next 5, without a good reason. What happened in the dressing room after the Rotherham/ Huddersfield games? Has the coach upset the players? A football dressing room is easily turned if the players are upset with the coach. Players will stick together to get a manager out.
The problem of having a thin squad is also apparent. We clearly don't have enough players and are having to call on untried kids. Harriott & Pigott would be better than Kennedy & McAlney, at least they have previous experience, even if they are both limited.
I am told she takes the biscuit
What's Rob Hulse doing these days? (I don't, of course, actually mean we should sign a long retired Rob Hulse but we should be looking for someone like him. Chris Powell certainly knew what he was doing when he got him in on loan a couple of years ago).
So after waiting 18 months to find a hold up CF after Y*** left we finally get one, he gets injured and we're buggered because we don't have any cover.
Interesting question about what happened in the dressing room after Hudds and Roths. I'd ask what happened at half time? Up until that point in the season we seemed to come out better in the second half: More organised, more determined, playing better football. I really had a sense they Luzon knew what he was doing but needed the interval to get the message to the team. The last two home games have given me none of that though; same old rubbish in both halves.
I am nearly done with this I must say. Under investment is a stupid and inept way to run any business. But when you are paying for 4 season tickets as I am it feels contemptuous and insulting. The point about comparing us with other better invested clubs in this division is that their fans are paying the same as we are for a better quality product.. If RD does not want to make this club work he should sell it to somebody who does.
To return to the same policy as the start of last season and have such a small squad is bonkers and you do really have to question what they watch
One politically experienced CAFC fan who'd read it said simply "he's barking". Certainly he goes on about his political vision, and it is a confusing mixture of policies and theories which are not easily pigeon-holed as right or left. They are also policies which would be very difficult to "sell" at any time because they are a huge departure for most people from all they are used to. They would need a huge personal charisma and selling ability, to gain support.
When RD tried it himself, he got nowhere. Something like 1% support for his party. So he is not able to get across his ideas effectively to the public, and the article suggests that's because he thinks we are all too stupid to get them. He compares himself to Alan Turing, in the sense of being the man who cracked the code, and spends a lot of time attacking Thomas Piketty.
At one point he does allow himself some comment about football because the interview takes place at Szecin stadium. He looks at the ultra section and says "Many of the guests who's sit there are unemployed and have nothing else to do all day. They spend all their time on internet fora. (my emphasis) Suddenly they know everything about Standard. They have nothing better to do the whole day long. I cannot compete with that"
So it seems pretty clear that he will never see the point of talking to fan groups, even virtually. Katrien might feel differently, but she would still have to explain his policies.
As to the connection to our current situation , it's clear that he deplores what he thinks of as waste (of money). We know that he already thought far too much is wasted on transfer fees and agents. Personally I now think that he believes club squads are too big generally and that if you push people to manage them better, you do better with smaller squads. That isn't so radical. Anyone who works or has worked for a big company (especially publicly quoted) knows what it's like to be told from above "deliver with the team you have". I had quite high hopes in mid-August that he'd changed his mind and seen the higher level of both quality and quantity needed. It now looks like he probably heard the quality message but just imposed his "sweat the assets harder" mantra at the end of the window. Perhaps because of our good start.
The tragic thing is that he is definitely in no way a thief, slimebag, or crook, unlike many current English club owners. With just a little more investment, and a little more dialogue, he could now be enjoying a very different relationship with us than he ever did with the Standard fans. You might conclude from the article that he doesn't care either way what we think, but I am not sure that's true, even though his personality may not allow him to show it. You go into politics (at least in advanced European democracies) because you believe you can change things for people. That means at some point you seek the recognition of those people. I think deep down he wants Charlton to do well, and then for us to say "you know, RD, he was right after all. What a man"
Sadly, it does not look like its going to happen. And right now, I don't know what we can do about it.
I agree that RD is certainly not a prince of darkness, neither does he seem to me particularly philanthropic, he occupies a more specialised space.
The most alarming thing is he seems frustrated that others don't see what he sees, think the way he thinks, and he reckons he has unique understanding of the past ebbs and flows of society, and knows therefore how the future will look.
One particularly striking example of how he would organise the world would be to accept people don't have to go to work, but that needn't matter, they should be given free money anyway.
The convoluted vision is clear in Roland's universe, but I fear pretty unintelligible to the rest of the world.
It's all very well being a visionary, but how you explain or communicate that vision is quite another thing, and RD does not do communication all that well, with one significant variation.
He seems to say judge me on what I do rather than say. He may point to saving the club, the development of the academy infrastructure, new pitch, new seats, new electronic turnstyles, even to cost cutting whilst surviving in the division as what he should be judged on.
As fans we mainly judge by results on the field of play.
At the moment it feels so 'other' at the club as if we're in the grips of some kind of exotic phenomena, almost a cult.
Running a football club living within its means is sensible to me but hardly likely to achieve real success when faced with the ridiculous competition eg Bristol City.
The club is safe and secure but I think our footballing success is going to be slow, if ever and hugely frustrating.
Will that get the fans through the gates ? I don't think it will.
I am sure RD regards himself as an original thinker, and yes he may be that, but I am no further in knowing the guy now then when I first heard of him. Which I get the impression he probably aspires to. So in conclusion I must be thicker than I thought, in that I just do not understand the man, or his business model. Wether his plans would have been different at another club, or if FFP had been the answer to the business model, who knows. Perhaps he can see an exit plan, in his 'blue sky thinking'. I tend to think some of his comments are rather vindictive and spiteful.
What's not to like
As for KM and RD. Well, a lot of us were excited by the start and felt we had brought some good players in, but most people also realised the squad was too small. Injuries and lack of form has brought forwards the problems from late October time to September. But the gaps were always there. Last season, my heart sinking moment came when Fulham beat us 3-0. I could see the eleven we put out was not one a team that could challenge. And that has been apparent in our last few games! They haven’t got the answers. Not the ones we want to see anyway!
At the start of the season we had that.
We now have injuries, obviously something that RD will not take into account.
Subsequently, we have been carrying passengers, on the pitch and we simply are not strong enough.
If you look at Saturdays' team. Most agreed that we were carrying Bergditch, Kennedy, McEleny.
Sarr, KAG & Pope also weakened the team, compared to the 1st teamers missing. (Granted Pope was MOM, but he doesn't have Henderson's authority).
It's not possible to compete without the resources and RD won't stump up sufficient resources.
Why should he ? Well he doesn't have to, but he did volunteer.
He's an egomaniac and won't change, so it is what it is.