I take it that Red Red Robin is being phased out, maybe because it is popular amongst the older yet unwanted supporters. Even when RRR is phased out it still leaves the rather delicate problem of announcers who can't announce, and technology that does not amplify their lame efforts.
It's the quality of the speakers in certain areas of the ground that are the issue. RRR is, and has been, played before every game as usual and will continue to do so.
I believe that RRR has been played, but inaudibly, and it comes out at such poor amplitude that it is simply washed away by any competing sound source, which is why I said phased out rather than completely stopped.
Wasn't it in the summer of 2014 that Katrien intimated RRR is at the very least anachronistic and didn't do it for her? Combining that with her recent reported pronouncements about her antipathy towards the older support, then the 'phasing in' of the cheerleaders, the sofa initiative (!), the sex on the pitch video and such like leads me to believe that the traditions are simply unwanted by the new regime.
And of course they win because RRR simply cannot be heard, at least in the East Stand.
So what anyway? The owner owns us, and Katrien says we have to accept he does things his way as we build a better tomorrow together today, and of course us older fans don't have as many tomorrows to come as others, so alienating us is no biggie (once we have paid our money over obviously).
I take it that Red Red Robin is being phased out, maybe because it is popular amongst the older yet unwanted supporters. Even when RRR is phased out it still leaves the rather delicate problem of announcers who can't announce, and technology that does not amplify their lame efforts.
It's the quality of the speakers in certain areas of the ground that are the issue. RRR is, and has been, played before every game as usual and will continue to do so.
I believe that RRR has been played, but inaudibly, and it comes out at such poor amplitude that it is simply washed away by any competing sound source, which is why I said phased out rather than completely stopped.
Wasn't it in the summer of 2014 that Katrien intimated RRR is at the very least anachronistic and didn't do it for her? Combining that with her recent reported pronouncements about her antipathy towards the older support, then the 'phasing in' of the cheerleaders, the sofa initiative (!), the sex on the pitch video and such like leads me to believe that the traditions are simply unwanted by the new regime.
And of course they win because RRR simply cannot be heard, at least in the East Stand.
So what anyway? The owner owns us, and Katrien says we have to accept he does things his way as we build a better tomorrow together today, and of course us older fans don't have as many tomorrows to come as others, so alienating us is no biggie (once we have paid our money over obviously).
I wasn't at the game today but RRR has been pretty inaudible in Covered End Upper too.
Did anyone else notice that every replay was described as a "goal replay"?
Only goal's are replayed as Goal Replays, there was one incident very close just after the goal where the transition hadn't been switched back - my mistake as we are trying to train more U.o.G students so they can use the main switcher and between switching machines I forgot to switch back the transition
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Fonts were made a lot larger and I've spent a lot of time changing the team line up's to make them easier for fans to read so we did have a lot of changes based on the feedback I've read. Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties, even if it involves just flashing the team sheet up every 5 minutes. I couldn't do that today as the part needed to connect up a laptop into our big screen system only arrived late on Saturday so there wasn't enough time to do relevant testing.
Good luck with the rotated team thing, font size improvement has pleased a lot here it seems. I am intrigued as to what is meant by 'a solution which will please both parties' as it seems there is conflict somewhere in the mix to resolve. Can the club afford a sound engineer and an announcer to come in midweek to sort out the audio and the audibility of the RRR?
We've had the speakers checked multiple times and are trying to work on them as best we can. The problem is the speakers weren't great to start with, and are now very old. Changing The Valley's speakers is unlikely to be a job we could do mid-season due the size of the operation and price wise to upgrade the whole Valley sound system would near enough cost 1/2 a million by the time you have paid for speakers, cabling, amps etc etc.
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Fonts were made a lot larger and I've spent a lot of time changing the team line up's to make them easier for fans to read so we did have a lot of changes based on the feedback I've read. Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties, even if it involves just flashing the team sheet up every 5 minutes. I couldn't do that today as the part needed to connect up a laptop into our big screen system only arrived late on Saturday so there wasn't enough time to do relevant testing.
Good luck with the rotated team thing, font size improvement has pleased a lot here it seems. I am intrigued as to what is meant by 'a solution which will please both parties' as it seems there is conflict somewhere in the mix to resolve. Can the club afford a sound engineer and an announcer to come in midweek to sort out the audio and the audibility of the RRR?
We've had the speakers checked multiple times and are trying to work on them as best we can. The problem is the speakers weren't great to start with, and are now very old. Changing The Valley's speakers is unlikely to be a job we could do mid-season due the size of the operation and price wise to upgrade the whole Valley sound system would near enough cost 1/2 a million by the time you have paid for speakers, cabling, amps etc etc.
OK good. A straight answer. At least we know that the poor audio communication will continue and can stop hoping for it to get better. If there was an emergency announcement could it at least be in semaphore, or danced out to us by the cheerleaders standing on the sofa?
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Fonts were made a lot larger and I've spent a lot of time changing the team line up's to make them easier for fans to read so we did have a lot of changes based on the feedback I've read. Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties, even if it involves just flashing the team sheet up every 5 minutes. I couldn't do that today as the part needed to connect up a laptop into our big screen system only arrived late on Saturday so there wasn't enough time to do relevant testing.
Good luck with the rotated team thing, font size improvement has pleased a lot here it seems. I am intrigued as to what is meant by 'a solution which will please both parties' as it seems there is conflict somewhere in the mix to resolve. Can the club afford a sound engineer and an announcer to come in midweek to sort out the audio and the audibility of the RRR?
We've had the speakers checked multiple times and are trying to work on them as best we can. The problem is the speakers weren't great to start with, and are now very old. Changing The Valley's speakers is unlikely to be a job we could do mid-season due the size of the operation and price wise to upgrade the whole Valley sound system would near enough cost 1/2 a million by the time you have paid for speakers, cabling, amps etc etc.
Stuff that, put the money towards signing Big Mak.
Give us a bit of warning then put the words to the Red Red Robin up on the screen with one of those bouncing ball things and we all could then just sing it, that would save us half a million quid, and I would be happy with a 5% cut - luvvly Jubbly everyones a winner!.
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Fonts were made a lot larger and I've spent a lot of time changing the team line up's to make them easier for fans to read so we did have a lot of changes based on the feedback I've read. Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties, even if it involves just flashing the team sheet up every 5 minutes. I couldn't do that today as the part needed to connect up a laptop into our big screen system only arrived late on Saturday so there wasn't enough time to do relevant testing.
So who exactly is asking for a live feed during the game?
I take it that Red Red Robin is being phased out, maybe because it is popular amongst the older yet unwanted supporters. Even when RRR is phased out it still leaves the rather delicate problem of announcers who can't announce, and technology that does not amplify their lame efforts.
Better bloody not be being phased out, even if our hierarchy has no time for our history.
I believe that RRR has been played, but inaudibly, and it comes out at such poor amplitude that it is simply washed away by any competing sound source, which is why I said phased out rather than completely stopped.
We've had the speakers checked multiple times and are trying to work on them as best we can. The problem is the speakers weren't great to start with, and are now very old.
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Fonts were made a lot larger and I've spent a lot of time changing the team line up's to make them easier for fans to read so we did have a lot of changes based on the feedback I've read. Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties, even if it involves just flashing the team sheet up every 5 minutes. I couldn't do that today as the part needed to connect up a laptop into our big screen system only arrived late on Saturday so there wasn't enough time to do relevant testing.
Good luck with the rotated team thing, font size improvement has pleased a lot here it seems. I am intrigued as to what is meant by 'a solution which will please both parties' as it seems there is conflict somewhere in the mix to resolve. Can the club afford a sound engineer and an announcer to come in midweek to sort out the audio and the audibility of the RRR?
We've had the speakers checked multiple times and are trying to work on them as best we can. The problem is the speakers weren't great to start with, and are now very old. Changing The Valley's speakers is unlikely to be a job we could do mid-season due the size of the operation and price wise to upgrade the whole Valley sound system would near enough cost 1/2 a million by the time you have paid for speakers, cabling, amps etc etc.
OK good. A straight answer. At least we know that the poor audio communication will continue and can stop hoping for it to get better. If there was an emergency announcement could it at least be in semaphore, or danced out to us by the cheerleaders standing on the sofa?
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties,
So I've heard and read about 100 fans, saying they don't want and don't look at the live feed. It is a complete waste of time. But everyone wants the teams listed permanently. ONE fan said they liked the live feed as their small son couldn't see the pitch fully.
I'd always presumed the screen was there for the fans. Apparently it is not.
Please can you explain who the other party is, that doesn't care a jot for what the fans want and why their views take precedent over what the fans want ?
If this is just being used as a learning tool for University for Greenwich students to practice on, please can they practice at other times, when it doesn't spoil the Charlton fans enjoyment of the game ?
This is after all meant to be a professional football club isn't it ?
If anything changed for today I missed it. Red Red Robin inaudible in the East Stand, as were the announcements which were a mix of gabble and inaudibility, which even when straining to hear were impossible to make out. The screen did not have the teams, scorers, cards or subs at all, it was all the same as before, and now getting pretty dire as it is altogether worse than last season from a fans point of view (well this fan anyway).
Not my decision regarding live stream/teamsheets but I'm trying to work on a solution which will please both parties,
So I've heard and read about 100 fans, saying they don't want and don't look at the live feed. It is a complete waste of time. But everyone wants the teams listed permanently. ONE fan said they liked the live feed as their small son couldn't see the pitch fully.
I'd always presumed the screen was there for the fans. Apparently it is not.
Please can you explain who the other party is, that doesn't care a jot for what the fans want and why their views take precedent over what the fans want ?
If this is just being used as a learning tool for University for Greenwich students to practice on, please can they practice at other times, when it doesn't spoil the Charlton fans enjoyment of the game ?
This is after all meant to be a professional football club isn't it ?
No, it isn't just a learning tool for UoG students. The main benefit of the filming is to give Charlton their own resource of video for highlights, the opportunity for replays and an archive of games. The students are a relatively cheap but good quality resource.
We know there have been one or two mistakes, but this is the first time we have done this from both sides. Our aim is to keep on improving quality and trying new things which, I hope, will add value. I don't want to say too much at the moment as things are still in planning, but there are some film ideas that are very much about CAFC the football club, history, and match day experience and I think might resonate with fans, old and new. @Henry Irving - can we have a chat about this? It is something you might be interested in.
Not sure that Steve can comment too much on who has say about live streaming or not. There is, I believe, a difference of views within Charlton as to whether live streaming is a good idea. We are still in the trialling period and it may take a while to get to a happy balance but hopefully we will get there.
But on UoG filming, anyone looking for a similar service for, well, anything really, please talk to me . And not just film, we can do most things from networking, computer security, software development, data analysis, law, architecture, copywriting, events management - all at very reasonable rates :-)
Thank-you for replying. Perhaps you would be kind enough, to alert the person at Charlton, who wants the live feed, that 99% of the fans do not. I fail to understand how a business can consistently ignore their "customers" wishes and expect to grow. They will not, they will fail as their customers gradually slip away.
Thank-you for replying. Perhaps you would be kind enough, to alert the person at Charlton, who wants the live feed, that 99% of the fans do not. I fail to understand how a business can consistently ignore their "customers" wishes and expect to grow. They will not, they will fail as their customers gradually slip away.
Fans Forum next week, I believe. Opportunity to ask her.
Thank-you for replying. Perhaps you would be kind enough, to alert the person at Charlton, who wants the live feed, that 99% of the fans do not. I fail to understand how a business can consistently ignore their "customers" wishes and expect to grow. They will not, they will fail as their customers gradually slip away.
I think all those involved are fully aware of feedback on this and other innovations.
For good or ill, Charlton is trying to go through a process of re-inventing itself with a focus on getting new, young fans. There is a view that the older fan will, for the most part, continue to turn up because the evidence suggests that is what they tend to do. So they are doing things aimed at a different, long term cohort and not worrying so much about existing fans. Might be successful, might not. I have no idea as it is not my area of expertise. But I do know that all the things happening at the Valley are not aimed at me, so my view isn't top of the agenda.
Having said that, I have and will continue to share my views of what I think is a good idea or not. My personal preference is for team sheets and action replays on big screen (or have two screens in the ground - one with text and other with stream, but that might be expensive and impossible at the moment).
I also have responsibility for providing a service to a client so I want to make sure that we are providing the best we can. I would also say that Steve, and the rest of the team at Charlton, are actually doing a great job on fairly limited resources and should be supported.
Once again. Thank-you henrythecat, I feel it is safe to assume you fully understand what the customers (fans) want.
Unfortunately, the person making the decision probably does, but does not care.
I suppose one cannot be given wisdom and common sense.
All In know is that companies that listen to and value their customers, such as John Lewis continue to thrive and companies that do not listen to their customers and do not have a regard for their views fail.
What a shame Charlton have fallen into the latter category.
Apparently at Charlton, the customer is always wrong.
I was at the Olympic Stadium for the rugby a couple of weeks ago, and they had live feed throughout the game. As I missed the players being announced before the game, I ended up using my phone to see the team lists as they never reappeared. It does seem common to do it like this, however irritating it might be to most of us.
No. UoG. But I am responsible for providing the filming team, along with other areas where we are trying to provide content and support to CAFC.
I am not well versed in these matters, but I assume 'not just film, we can do most things from networking, computer security, software development, data analysis, law, architecture, copywriting, events management' is where you input along with University of Greenwich students.
It is interesting that part of the culture you reference is 'Charlton reinventing itself' with a focus on getting in 'new young fans'.
You also go on to say 'There is a view that the older fan will, for the most part, continue to turn up because the evidence suggests that is what they tend to do. So they are doing things aimed at a different, long term cohort and not worrying so much about existing fans.' which I assume was information you gleaned when liaising with the club (and you are ambivalent as to whether it will be a success or not).
The stuff about the older fans resonated with the partially translated interview with Katrien highlighted last week in that our money is welcome, we will turn up willy nilly so we can be taken for granted, but the traditions and things that attract us are getting in the way of a reinvention (as with Red Red Robin).
It isn't you, but the glaring mistake it seems to me is that the older fans hand on support generation by generation to the younger ones, and the strategy of active alienation or curled lip dismissal towards to long standing fan is going to damage that process.
There are not many grandparents who will say to a young 'un:
'c'mon I'm taking you to football, they aren't keen on me being there actually, but they'll love you'. It doesn't work that way in my experience.
The young people working at the club may be brim full of ideas, but they don't have the monopoly as to what is a good idea, and the desire to shove those ideas down our throats for good or bad is a kind of brick through the window approach.
In your work for UoG and Charlton to what extent do the students actually engage with the fans to know what we're like and what we would want?
No. UoG. But I am responsible for providing the filming team, along with other areas where we are trying to provide content and support to CAFC.
I am not well versed in these matters, but I assume 'not just film, we can do most things from networking, computer security, software development, data analysis, law, architecture, copywriting, events management' is where you input along with University of Greenwich students.
It is interesting that part of the culture you reference is 'Charlton reinventing itself' with a focus on getting in 'new young fans'.
You also go on to say 'There is a view that the older fan will, for the most part, continue to turn up because the evidence suggests that is what they tend to do. So they are doing things aimed at a different, long term cohort and not worrying so much about existing fans.' which I assume was information you gleaned when liaising with the club (and you are ambivalent as to whether it will be a success or not).
The stuff about the older fans resonated with the partially translated interview with Katrien highlighted last week in that our money is welcome, we will turn up willy nilly so we can be taken for granted, but the traditions and things that attract us are getting in the way of a reinvention (as with Red Red Robin).
It isn't you, but the glaring mistake it seems to me is that the older fans hand on support generation by generation to the younger ones, and the strategy of active alienation or curled lip dismissal towards to long standing fan is going to damage that process.
There are not many grandparents who will say to a young 'un:
'c'mon I'm taking you to football, they aren't keen on me being there actually, but they'll love you'. It doesn't work that way in my experience.
The young people working at the club may be brim full of ideas, but they don't have the monopoly as to what is a good idea, and the desire to shove those ideas down our throats for good or bad is a kind of brick through the window approach.
In your work for UoG and Charlton to what extent do the students actually engage with the fans to know what we're like and what we would want?
Seth there is no active plan to alienate older supporters, nor is there one to take them for granted.
We are trying to encourage a new younger fan base, but then again so is every football club for the simple fact the club relies on the next generation of supporters.
I'm a Charlton fan myself, was a season ticket holder since 5 years old right up until I started working for the club and as a S/T holder I was attending approximately 18 away games per season as a fan. This club has some amazing history but there's no history without any of the fans. My fathers friend had a season ticket for 25 years and then took a break so I know there's no guarantee that just because you have supported Charlton all your life doesn't mean you will buy a season ticket - there needs to be the incentive there.
Also I'm not sure about the reference regarding Red Red Robin, as previously stated multiple times accross this forum RRR is still playing and we are trying to get it as load as we can
I am not well versed in these matters, but I assume 'not just film, we can do most things from networking, computer security, software development, data analysis, law, architecture, copywriting, events management' is where you input along with University of Greenwich students.
Yes that is correct. My job is to develop projects with local businesses and community where students can gain useful work experience which feeds into their curriculum whilst giving said organisations a good quality service at a very reasonable rate. Charlton is one place where we are working. Thus my plug. very reasonable rates, etc., etc.
In your work for UoG and Charlton to what extent do the students actually engage with the fans to know what we're like and what we would want?
At the moment, fairly limited interaction between UoG students and fans (although some of the team are Charlton fans) We (UoG) are providing a service to a client (CAFC). We set up and film but all direction comes from Charlton staff. I would say that the hands on team at Charlton are, from our point of view, great to work with, life long Charlton fans, working hard on making things better and conscious of criticism. Some are on here. @sadamson84 is the person driving it and really wants it all to be successful. We know that there are things that can be improved, but bear with us as Steve is working hard to get things right.
There are also some projects I want to do with the students which is rooted in the history and feelings of what it is to be a Charlton fan. But these are in early stages at the moment and needs more planning.
I totally understand your views about old vs young, mostly because I am an old bloke who enjoys the routine of going to the match and isn't looking for lots of innovation on a Saturday afternoon. I also get that the club are trying new things as they see that as the way forward. Introducing change is always a dangerous territory as it is likely to upset. In the long term, it might be the right strategy, don't know. My experience says that things will gradually adjust themselves to something which is acceptable, that is until the next bright idea comes along.
Seth there is no active plan to alienate older supporters, nor is there one to take them for granted.
We are trying to encourage a new younger fan base, but then again so is every football club for the simple fact the club relies on the next generation of supporters.
You are right Steve, and I oversimplified the old vs new fan argument. I am aware of some of the things going on about improving experience of fans of all persuasions old or young.
I also know that many of the current innovations are not really aimed at me. But, to be honest, none of them interfere with me watching a football match either. Does the sofa get in the way of me watching? no. Does having cheerleaders on the pitch at half time stop me watching the match? no. Having the live stream does stop me seeing the team lists, but then it wasn't that long ago (at least for me) when there wasn't any screen at all and you had to tick off who was playing on the back of a programme.
Seth there is no active plan to alienate older supporters, nor is there one to take them for granted.
We are trying to encourage a new younger fan base, but then again so is every football club for the simple fact the club relies on the next generation of supporters.
You are right Steve, and I oversimplified the old vs new fan argument. I am aware of some of the things going on about improving experience of fans of all persuasions old or young.
I also know that many of the current innovations are not really aimed at me. But, to be honest, none of them interfere with me watching a football match either. Does the sofa get in the way of me watching? no. Does having cheerleaders on the pitch at half time stop me watching the match? no. Having the live stream does stop me seeing the team lists, but then it wasn't that long ago (at least for me) when there wasn't any screen at all and you had to tick off who was playing on the back of a programme.
Once upon a time we had a scoreboard on stilts up in the the Lansdowne Mews corner of the ground showing half time scores and then when that was pulled down we had them displayed in the corners of the pitch.
Where I sit, I can't even see the he effing electronic scoreboard! Do I care......No. why? because I go to to a football match to watch the game, anything else is a bonus!
I am not against innovation. However besides the fans forum into which personally I (maybe others) have no input whatsoever. For what it's worth I think the sofa is a source of mild amusement, but encouraging gawping at cheerleaders, if they're all female especially, is pretty sexist.
I would like to give feedback on ideas that the innovators introduce, or some kind of outreach from the innovators to glean feedback. That's assuming we are all after a great matchday experience. if that kind of dialogue is happening it has passed me by.
However the bit of measurable feedback on here at least, is that we want the team line ups etc, but that desire seems to bump up against commercial interests rather that what fans actually want.
I would suggest a promising approach could be:
Firstly see what fans want, will accept, and enjoy. Secondly seek sponsorship for it.
I can't help feeling it is more like firstly see what sponsors want, secondly impose it on the fans.
It might be possible to carve a win win situation for all, but at the moment it doesn't quite feel that way. I suppose when you mention being successful above, It may depend on what success looks like and to whom.
It's very simple really - watching football is much more enjoyable when you know who's playing!
When I went into the Vista Lounge before the game with Hull I was given a free team sheet which was much envied by those sitting near me!
Would it be possible to print a few thousand of these at half past two and sell them for 20p or maybe give them away free when you buy something at the catering outlets.
All based on a wonderful new technology called "paper" so it should be attractive to both young and old.
It's very simple really - watching football is much more enjoyable when you know who's playing
All based on a wonderful new technology called "paper" so it should be attractive to both young and old.
They could print the team sheet in a large font on a very big piece of paper and paste it over the big screen and put it to good use - beats me why nobody thought of it before...
I was in the east Stand on Saturday (Block G) and can say that this was the first time I heard the RRR clearly. Think this was more to do with the attendance than anything else!!. If the problem is with the PA system degrading, then there isn't much the club can do other than prioritise and schedule it in with the other work that's got to be done. I would suggest trying on a match day around kick-off to have a few spotters placed to see where the low spots on the PA are and see if there is something short term that can be done, but that may have already be done.
I've spent half my life believing in conspiracy theories, but as I've got older, I've realised that its only on TV that everybody is trying to do everyone else over. 99.99% of people are genuinely trying to do the right thing for everyone's enjoyment. Give people a break, and help them with constructive feedback.
Money only grows on Russian Oligarch Trees, so we have to plan and tackle things in the right order.
Now if someone could fix that sodding light above us in Block G that has been switching itself off every 15 minutes for the last 6 years........................:-)
On the subject of this thread, well done guys on listening to the feedback here. It wont all get addressed overnight, but good to see you are taking on-board what we are saying.
BTW - Is there a specific CAFC twitter account (seperate from the main one) where the guys could post out the line-ups and changes, whilst we wait to get these back on the screens?
Comments
Wasn't it in the summer of 2014 that Katrien intimated RRR is at the very least anachronistic and didn't do it for her? Combining that with her recent reported pronouncements about her antipathy towards the older support, then the 'phasing in' of the cheerleaders, the sofa initiative (!), the sex on the pitch video and such like leads me to believe that the traditions are simply unwanted by the new regime.
And of course they win because RRR simply cannot be heard, at least in the East Stand.
So what anyway? The owner owns us, and Katrien says we have to accept he does things his way as we build a better tomorrow together today, and of course us older fans don't have as many tomorrows to come as others, so alienating us is no biggie (once we have paid our money over obviously).
Abolition by stealth I reckon.
At least we know that the poor audio communication will continue and can stop hoping for it to get better.
If there was an emergency announcement could it at least be in semaphore, or danced out to us by the cheerleaders standing on the sofa?
Out of interest, whose decision is it about the live stream? Whose remit does that fall under?
Cheers
I blame RD.
I'd always presumed the screen was there for the fans. Apparently it is not.
Please can you explain who the other party is, that doesn't care a jot for what the fans want and why their views take precedent over what the fans want ?
If this is just being used as a learning tool for University for Greenwich students to practice on, please can they practice at other times, when it doesn't spoil the Charlton fans enjoyment of the game ?
This is after all meant to be a professional football club isn't it ?
We know there have been one or two mistakes, but this is the first time we have done this from both sides. Our aim is to keep on improving quality and trying new things which, I hope, will add value. I don't want to say too much at the moment as things are still in planning, but there are some film ideas that are very much about CAFC the football club, history, and match day experience and I think might resonate with fans, old and new. @Henry Irving - can we have a chat about this? It is something you might be interested in.
Not sure that Steve can comment too much on who has say about live streaming or not. There is, I believe, a difference of views within Charlton as to whether live streaming is a good idea. We are still in the trialling period and it may take a while to get to a happy balance but hopefully we will get there.
But on UoG filming, anyone looking for a similar service for, well, anything really, please talk to me . And not just film, we can do most things from networking, computer security, software development, data analysis, law, architecture, copywriting, events management - all at very reasonable rates :-)
For good or ill, Charlton is trying to go through a process of re-inventing itself with a focus on getting new, young fans. There is a view that the older fan will, for the most part, continue to turn up because the evidence suggests that is what they tend to do. So they are doing things aimed at a different, long term cohort and not worrying so much about existing fans. Might be successful, might not. I have no idea as it is not my area of expertise. But I do know that all the things happening at the Valley are not aimed at me, so my view isn't top of the agenda.
Having said that, I have and will continue to share my views of what I think is a good idea or not. My personal preference is for team sheets and action replays on big screen (or have two screens in the ground - one with text and other with stream, but that might be expensive and impossible at the moment).
I also have responsibility for providing a service to a client so I want to make sure that we are providing the best we can. I would also say that Steve, and the rest of the team at Charlton, are actually doing a great job on fairly limited resources and should be supported.
Unfortunately, the person making the decision probably does, but does not care.
I suppose one cannot be given wisdom and common sense.
All In know is that companies that listen to and value their customers, such as John Lewis continue to thrive and companies that do not listen to their customers and do not have a regard for their views fail.
What a shame Charlton have fallen into the latter category.
Apparently at Charlton, the customer is always wrong.
It does seem common to do it like this, however irritating it might be to most of us.
It is interesting that part of the culture you reference is 'Charlton reinventing itself' with a focus on getting in 'new young fans'.
You also go on to say 'There is a view that the older fan will, for the most part, continue to turn up because the evidence suggests that is what they tend to do. So they are doing things aimed at a different, long term cohort and not worrying so much about existing fans.' which I assume was information you gleaned when liaising with the club (and you are ambivalent as to whether it will be a success or not).
The stuff about the older fans resonated with the partially translated interview with Katrien highlighted last week in that our money is welcome, we will turn up willy nilly so we can be taken for granted, but the traditions and things that attract us are getting in the way of a reinvention (as with Red Red Robin).
It isn't you, but the glaring mistake it seems to me is that the older fans hand on support generation by generation to the younger ones, and the strategy of active alienation or curled lip dismissal towards to long standing fan is going to damage that process.
There are not many grandparents who will say to a young 'un:
'c'mon I'm taking you to football, they aren't keen on me being there actually, but they'll love you'. It doesn't work that way in my experience.
The young people working at the club may be brim full of ideas, but they don't have the monopoly as to what is a good idea, and the desire to shove those ideas down our throats for good or bad is a kind of brick through the window approach.
In your work for UoG and Charlton to what extent do the students actually engage with the fans to know what we're like and what we would want?
We are trying to encourage a new younger fan base, but then again so is every football club for the simple fact the club relies on the next generation of supporters.
I'm a Charlton fan myself, was a season ticket holder since 5 years old right up until I started working for the club and as a S/T holder I was attending approximately 18 away games per season as a fan. This club has some amazing history but there's no history without any of the fans. My fathers friend had a season ticket for 25 years and then took a break so I know there's no guarantee that just because you have supported Charlton all your life doesn't mean you will buy a season ticket - there needs to be the incentive there.
Also I'm not sure about the reference regarding Red Red Robin, as previously stated multiple times accross this forum RRR is still playing and we are trying to get it as load as we can
There are also some projects I want to do with the students which is rooted in the history and feelings of what it is to be a Charlton fan. But these are in early stages at the moment and needs more planning.
I totally understand your views about old vs young, mostly because I am an old bloke who enjoys the routine of going to the match and isn't looking for lots of innovation on a Saturday afternoon. I also get that the club are trying new things as they see that as the way forward. Introducing change is always a dangerous territory as it is likely to upset. In the long term, it might be the right strategy, don't know. My experience says that things will gradually adjust themselves to something which is acceptable, that is until the next bright idea comes along.
I also know that many of the current innovations are not really aimed at me. But, to be honest, none of them interfere with me watching a football match either. Does the sofa get in the way of me watching? no. Does having cheerleaders on the pitch at half time stop me watching the match? no. Having the live stream does stop me seeing the team lists, but then it wasn't that long ago (at least for me) when there wasn't any screen at all and you had to tick off who was playing on the back of a programme.
Where I sit, I can't even see the he effing electronic scoreboard! Do I care......No. why? because I go to to a football match to watch the game, anything else is a bonus!
For what it's worth I think the sofa is a source of mild amusement, but encouraging gawping at cheerleaders, if they're all female especially, is pretty sexist.
I would like to give feedback on ideas that the innovators introduce, or some kind of outreach from the innovators to glean feedback. That's assuming we are all after a great matchday experience. if that kind of dialogue is happening it has passed me by.
However the bit of measurable feedback on here at least, is that we want the team line ups etc, but that desire seems to bump up against commercial interests rather that what fans actually want.
I would suggest a promising approach could be:
Firstly see what fans want, will accept, and enjoy.
Secondly seek sponsorship for it.
I can't help feeling it is more like firstly see what sponsors want, secondly impose it on the fans.
It might be possible to carve a win win situation for all, but at the moment it doesn't quite feel that way. I suppose when you mention being successful above, It may depend on what success looks like and to whom.
When I went into the Vista Lounge before the game with Hull I was given a free team sheet which was much envied by those sitting near me!
Would it be possible to print a few thousand of these at half past two and sell them for 20p or maybe give them away free when you buy something at the catering outlets.
All based on a wonderful new technology called "paper" so it should be attractive to both young and old.
I've spent half my life believing in conspiracy theories, but as I've got older, I've realised that its only on TV that everybody is trying to do everyone else over. 99.99% of people are genuinely trying to do the right thing for everyone's enjoyment. Give people a break, and help them with constructive feedback.
Money only grows on Russian Oligarch Trees, so we have to plan and tackle things in the right order.
Now if someone could fix that sodding light above us in Block G that has been switching itself off every 15 minutes for the last 6 years........................:-)
On the subject of this thread, well done guys on listening to the feedback here. It wont all get addressed overnight, but good to see you are taking on-board what we are saying.
BTW - Is there a specific CAFC twitter account (seperate from the main one) where the guys could post out the line-ups and changes, whilst we wait to get these back on the screens?