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Traffic chaos in Kent

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  • I'm more concerned about what happens when these migrants become more and more organised in large numbers as seems to happening now, mixed in with the traffickers seemingly having a larger and larger presence to play in the region. We've seen the images from a few months ago of people drifting some 200 miles across the water between Africa and Europe and it wont be long before the same attempts, when organised are made to cross the channel at a mere distance of 25 miles. Whilst we know the coastguard is much more prevalent in the channel than maybe between Africa and Europe, if attempts are made in such numbers and coordinated as they seem to be now then surely we're going to see a lot more of this, and sadly, a lot more people dying.
  • edited July 2015
    #homeguard anyone ?
  • smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Thing is they are asylum seekers (most of them) who know that if they stop in any of these other countries they wont be granted asylum. whereas if they reach the UK they they will have a far greater chance of receiving asylum. that's why they become desperate. you only have to look at the state of the camps they (admittedly choose to) live in in Calais to see why some of them are so desperate to make it to the UK
  • smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Calling them greedy lying bastards for fleeing a warn torn country and seeking refuge in another is not on IMO.

    Everyone knows that English is the most common language spoken in the world, maybe that's why people come here? Because they can speak the language somewhat rather than starting from scratch with French or Italian.

    Not saying we should let them all in, but show at least a shred of compassion. They didn't ask for war to hit their country and ISIS/Boko Haram giving them the constant fear for their lives.
  • There is a difference between economic migrants seeking asylum and war torn migrants, at calais these ate the economic ones and in need of no help, the vast majority that I have witnessed have I phones or other smart phones, they have addidas and Nike trainers, they have money as well they are carrying very large knives, the pull the windscreen wipers off or pull them up to make you get out of the vehicle where they attempt to rob your van or lorry and at what ever amount of aggression they choose,
  • Not that I would want to ever credit the Daily Mail, but they have a point or two to make in response to Cameron's do not blame the french, pointing finger etc...... Anyone would think the situation had appeared suddenly last week, it has been an issue for months\years.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3179324/Why-French-blame-migrant-crisis-LEO-MCKINSTRY-says-Prime-Minister-wrong-point-fingers-directly-France-disaster-unfolds-soil.html
  • CAFC Luke said:

    smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Thing is they are asylum seekers (most of them) who know that if they stop in any of these other countries they wont be granted asylum. whereas if they reach the UK they they will have a far greater chance of receiving asylum. that's why they become desperate. you only have to look at the state of the camps they (admittedly choose to) live in in Calais to see why some of them are so desperate to make it to the UK
    But they are not asylum seekers Luke. They are illegal immigrants, who when caught, apply for asylum to prevent immediate extradition. They will not arrive (in Dover, Folkstone, London or wherever) and apply for asylum; they will get across, try to find work and a roof over their head, then work illegally for minimal pay with poor conditions in some sweatshop until sussed.

    There is no easy answer, but more does need to be done to prevent them gaining access to the tunnel/trains/lorries so that citizens can go about their cross-channel business unaffected.
  • smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Calling them greedy lying bastards for fleeing a warn torn country and seeking refuge in another is not on IMO.

    Everyone knows that English is the most common language spoken in the world, maybe that's why people come here? Because they can speak the language somewhat rather than starting from scratch with French or Italian.

    Not saying we should let them all in, but show at least a shred of compassion. They didn't ask for war to hit their country and ISIS/Boko Haram giving them the constant fear for their lives.
    So they have travelled all across Europe, France at least, because they speak English ?

    Do you actually believe this ?
  • edited July 2015
    PL54 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Calling them greedy lying bastards for fleeing a warn torn country and seeking refuge in another is not on IMO.

    Everyone knows that English is the most common language spoken in the world, maybe that's why people come here? Because they can speak the language somewhat rather than starting from scratch with French or Italian.

    Not saying we should let them all in, but show at least a shred of compassion. They didn't ask for war to hit their country and ISIS/Boko Haram giving them the constant fear for their lives.
    So they have travelled all across Europe, France at least, because they speak English ?

    Do you actually believe this ?
    Do you actually believe people in Africa are sat there figuring out the benefits system?

    My reasoning is far more reasonable than others.
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  • A start would be to end the open border rule to EU members, close the borders to ALL non British people until they provide a British passport, easy.
  • They are not fleeing war torn countries though on the whole these people faced no persecution and are only there to thieve and come over here to continue their scummy behaviour, I have seen the same bloke on 4 different occasions there orchestrating th ed attempts to break in to vehicles, the backs and fronts of them only once in that 4 tines did he attempt to gain access himself and that was half hearted, there is a high percentage of them there solely interested in robbing from the vehicles and those driving or accompanying the driver
  • edited July 2015
    PL54 said:

    PL54 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Calling them greedy lying bastards for fleeing a warn torn country and seeking refuge in another is not on IMO.

    Everyone knows that English is the most common language spoken in the world, maybe that's why people come here? Because they can speak the language somewhat rather than starting from scratch with French or Italian.

    Not saying we should let them all in, but show at least a shred of compassion. They didn't ask for war to hit their country and ISIS/Boko Haram giving them the constant fear for their lives.
    So they have travelled all across Europe, France at least, because they speak English ?

    Do you actually believe this ?
    Do you actually believe people in Africa are sat there figuring out the benefits system?

    My reasoning is far more reasonable than others.
    I believe that they know the benefits system in UK is better than in Somalia
    So is every European country, why bother with the extra journey time?

    You can't receive benefits as an illegal immigrant.
  • PL54 said:

    #homeguard anyone ?

    yeah but don't say pikey.
  • A migrant was interviewed on TV this morning and when he was asked why he wants to come to Britain he said that it was 'because they won't send me back' .
  • A migrant was interviewed on TV this morning and when he was asked why he wants to come to Britain he said that it was 'because they won't send me back' .

    This is where we should get a chauffeur to come along and offer him a lift, when he says "Where in England am I going" we'll get the Driver to say: "Sorry change of policy, am taking you back"
  • cabbie8 said:

    Anyone know what the state of the A2/M2 is like thinking of going Margate tmr?

    It depends when you are travelling. At peak time the M2 is very slow especially where the 4 lanes go to 3 just past Junction 3 (Chatham) and past Junction 4 (Gillingham) from where it is only two lanes.
  • Well at least Cameron is making it clear that the UK will not be a haven for migrants.

    # Chairman's vote of confidence
  • edited July 2015
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33713268

    37,000 attempts since January, makes you wonder how many people have got through since then...
    (We could have filled the valley no problem).
  • I heard on the wireless yesterday that Turkey has been obliged to take in TWO MILLION refugees, and that other countries in Europe have taken a lot in. At Calais/Dover there is the obvious bottleneck in terms of travel and as such it is framing the problem in a very televisual and media attractive way. In terms of bald numbers though the UK has had less than other countries.
    Violence and intimidation of lorry drivers and other workers is totally unacceptable, and if the authorities don't step in then people will take the law into their own hands which will inevitably exacerbate the problem.
    There is a solution, I don't think that NLA's bullet in the head as a deterrent is it though. For that to work presumably there would need to be witnesses to the shooting in order for those people to be deterred. Shooting all of the people in Calais would also be a solution, as when they're dead they can't try to get across the channel or intimidate drivers and travellers, but I don't see shooting everybody working myself because international reaction to such murder, barbarity and genocide would have consequences.
    The hard miles have to be walked on this one, and if there is blame it is against the authorities on all sides who have washed their hands of it all hoping somehow it will just go away. more police and better and higher fences will work temporarily, but long term a different solution needs to be found. Kenofbexley has called it right on this one, a sad and sorry state of affairs.
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  • seth plum said:

    I heard on the wireless yesterday that Turkey has been obliged to take in TWO MILLION refugees, and that other countries in Europe have taken a lot in. At Calais/Dover there is the obvious bottleneck in terms of travel and as such it is framing the problem in a very televisual and media attractive way. In terms of bald numbers though the UK has had less than other countries.
    Violence and intimidation of lorry drivers and other workers is totally unacceptable, and if the authorities don't step in then people will take the law into their own hands which will inevitably exacerbate the problem.
    There is a solution, I don't think that NLA's bullet in the head as a deterrent is it though. For that to work presumably there would need to be witnesses to the shooting in order for those people to be deterred. Shooting all of the people in Calais would also be a solution, as when they're dead they can't try to get across the channel or intimidate drivers and travellers, but I don't see shooting everybody working myself because international reaction to such murder, barbarity and genocide would have consequences.
    The hard miles have to be walked on this one, and if there is blame it is against the authorities on all sides who have washed their hands of it all hoping somehow it will just go away. more police and better and higher fences will work temporarily, but long term a different solution needs to be found. Kenofbexley has called it right on this one, a sad and sorry state of affairs.

    The main consequence would be that they would, presumably, all give up trying to come here.

    The sad truth, however, is that if we didn't have so many people in the UK that refuse to do the kind of work that these immigrants are travelling thousand of miles to do then there would be no work for them when they get here so they would go elsewhere.

    Back on topic though, I think the immigration is a side issue, it's the French carrying out industrial action, and vandalism that are causing the traffic issues. I would think we deal with that first as a priority as I'm not sure the patience of the Kent residents can be tested much more before they start to take matters into their own hands with even worse consequences.
  • seth plum said:

    I heard on the wireless yesterday that Turkey has been obliged to take in TWO MILLION refugees, and that other countries in Europe have taken a lot in. At Calais/Dover there is the obvious bottleneck in terms of travel and as such it is framing the problem in a very televisual and media attractive way. In terms of bald numbers though the UK has had less than other countries.
    Violence and intimidation of lorry drivers and other workers is totally unacceptable, and if the authorities don't step in then people will take the law into their own hands which will inevitably exacerbate the problem.
    There is a solution, I don't think that NLA's bullet in the head as a deterrent is it though. For that to work presumably there would need to be witnesses to the shooting in order for those people to be deterred. Shooting all of the people in Calais would also be a solution, as when they're dead they can't try to get across the channel or intimidate drivers and travellers, but I don't see shooting everybody working myself because international reaction to such murder, barbarity and genocide would have consequences.
    The hard miles have to be walked on this one, and if there is blame it is against the authorities on all sides who have washed their hands of it all hoping somehow it will just go away. more police and better and higher fences will work temporarily, but long term a different solution needs to be found. Kenofbexley has called it right on this one, a sad and sorry state of affairs.

    The main consequence would be that they would, presumably, all give up trying to come here.

    The sad truth, however, is that if we didn't have so many people in the UK that refuse to do the kind of work that these immigrants are travelling thousand of miles to do then there would be no work for them when they get here so they would go elsewhere.

    Back on topic though, I think the immigration is a side issue, it's the French carrying out industrial action, and vandalism that are causing the traffic issues. I would think we deal with that first as a priority as I'm not sure the patience of the Kent residents can be tested much more before they start to take matters into their own hands with even worse consequences.
    Kent to declare war on France ?
  • I was thinking more of people taking days off work (sick) because the traffic was so bad; people avoiding going out spending money in local businesses. All of these things mioght seem insignificant but they would mount up.
  • I was thinking more of people taking days off work (sick) because the traffic was so bad; people avoiding going out spending money in local businesses. All of these things mioght seem insignificant but they would mount up.

    Yeah, that would show the immigrants. If the good folk of Kent do this, I'd expect an immediate disbursement :smile:
  • It's a reasonable solution to.the problem , they are not in need of help or assistance they are there because they want to come over the border and ponce off of us , if they want to risk getting shot if they do attempt to cross it's their own problem
  • PL54 said:

    smiffyboy said:

    How can you have sympathy for a lot more dying trying to cross the channel on boats, if they were genuine asylum seekers fair enough but these people have supposedly fled their war torn country and travelled through others where they could of stopped but no they carry on to get to ours, the reason being they ain't genuine I say good luck to them trying on boats because we know the outcome and they have no one to blame but themselves for being greedy lying bastards

    Calling them greedy lying bastards for fleeing a warn torn country and seeking refuge in another is not on IMO.

    Everyone knows that English is the most common language spoken in the world, maybe that's why people come here? Because they can speak the language somewhat rather than starting from scratch with French or Italian.

    Not saying we should let them all in, but show at least a shred of compassion. They didn't ask for war to hit their country and ISIS/Boko Haram giving them the constant fear for their lives.
    So they have travelled all across Europe, France at least, because they speak English ?

    Do you actually believe this ?
    Do you actually believe people in Africa are sat there figuring out the benefits system?

    My reasoning is far more reasonable than others.
    Yeah I do
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