I watch 'respected' individuals on this board measure their respective penises over their respective approach to club politics and cringe. The amount of ego involved in the Trust saga is unbearable. It's the usual national politics tale retold at club level. Embarrassment.
Welcome to Charlton Life, Sigmund Freud.
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one,it doesn't rest until it has gained a hearing"
She shouldn't be able to afford to pick and choose which supporters groups she engages with just because some are more critical of her leadership than others. ......... Her point-blank refusal .
Yet she was talking to the Trust and a large number of other groups only last week as FF states above. It's not her who is "picking and choosing". She has said she wants to speak to all the groups not just one and that is what she is doing.
Steve Clarke attends the FF meeting and gets to speak to her 1-2-1 afterwards and so she's not making a "point blank refusal".
Which just underlines the point made by me and others that friends of Steve and Trust activists, who were so quick to jump on this latest article on this thread, might be better to give SC and KM some space to build a new and better relationship and so repair the damage done before Steve became Chair.
I think we all know what remit the FF has and that's to deal with hygiene factors like the availability of bovril. Katrien Meire knows precisely what questions remain unanswered. She won't brook them at FF meetings and she wouldn't answer them at her VIP meeting. Until they come out and tell us, we are left with Roly's original pronouncement that we would be run to break even in time (bringing on youth and developing bought players, both for profit) and that our better players could be moved to the top of the pyramid at SL. I note the Trust have done very little since the Woolwich meeting. Presumably because of a softly softly approach (and the fact that form has picked up so the anger has died down). I don't see why much-needed openness isn't a priority. Last season we got the line that dialogue was on hold until the close season because of the relegation battle - you would think she played in goal. Something very similar said in the last week. Doing the right thing for our club should come first, not personalties and egos. As I have already said, if there's nothing to hide, why not come out and make it clear? Fear of contradiction or sheer arrogance are the only logical explanations, neither of which are satisfactory in my mind. Either way, the clock is ticking and we should be a lot clearer in four months time if not sooner. Personally I think we will start with a weaker squad than we finished the season - obviously hope I am wrong. I desperately want to support the new owner wholeheartedly but as things stand I fear we will be run as part of a bigger game-plan where Charlton winning and ambitions for promotion are ultimately unimportant as long as the network generates money.
The thing is that the people on this message board, whatever side of the fence they sit on, care for this club a damn sight more than the b******* running it. They're only in it for the money.
All this tripe from Meire mentioning her support and love blah blah blah of Charlton Athletic, what a load of rubbish. She probably never heard of us until eighteen months ago.
Once she goes you will not see her backside in a seat at The Valley ever again.
Rant over, I'm off to see Elfsborg v Djurgarden.
I don't know why M. Duchatelet is "in it" but I'm confident it's not for the money.
I tend to agree that it isn't to make money. But the danger is that it isn't to lose money. I might persuade you to use your house for a party, and I'll bring the beers, but when the party finishes you will have the mess to clear up.
I tend to agree that it isn't to make money. But the danger is that it isn't to lose money. I might persuade you to use your house for a party, and I'll bring the beers, but when the party finishes you will have the mess to clear up.
No idea the real figure but £25 million worth of beers !
Just perhaps he was hoping to play the "I'm the new guy so let's move on from the many mistakes made both sides in the past and work on rebuilding some trust and a constructive relationship".
Less chance of that happening now IMHO.
A real shame.
Laughable argument. If she's that feeble she'd better quit now.
And so it goes on.
She is "feeble". She "better quit now"
And we wonder why she isn't rushing to ring you and those that are aligned with you for help and advice.
If you really want a "meaningful dialogue" then you are going about it in a very strange way.
It is almost as if you don't want her to talk to Steve Clarke as that might kill your fox.
After the first two rounds this season, Katrien/ Roland are ahead on points, Better players hence why we're top half(just about) Academy boys Gomez, Cousins, doing very well and Fox improving after sticky start. Katrien has come out fighting and put herself about in the media.
The 3rd round will be played out once the season ends and we know if we're going to improve the squad or lose a couple of our better players ?
Can't see how the squad won't be weaker unless we really get lucky in our shopping at the Bargain end of the market ?
Just perhaps he was hoping to play the "I'm the new guy so let's move on from the many mistakes made both sides in the past and work on rebuilding some trust and a constructive relationship".
Less chance of that happening now IMHO.
A real shame.
Laughable argument. If she's that feeble she'd better quit now.
And so it goes on.
She is "feeble". She "better quit now"
And we wonder why she isn't rushing to ring you and those that are aligned with you for help and advice.
If you really want a "meaningful dialogue" then you are going about it in a very strange way.
It is almost as if you don't want her to talk to Steve Clarke as that might kill your fox.
Nobody has said she is "feeble" and nobody is implying such except you with your argument that if anyone says boo on here she will run away.
Steve Clarke is no more "aligned with me" than you are. I've probably spoken to you more times in the last year than I have to him.
You try to assert there is an equivalence between mistakes made by the trust and the club. I have no idea what these "mistakes" might me on the trust side, although you have pursued a peculiarly idiosyncratic and vindictive agenda towards some people (previously) involved in the trust so I assume you have your own ideas. On the football club side they include bringing in inadequate players, trying to force the coach to play them, selling Kermorgant without replacing him for a year, Bob Peeters, and the dire handling of Bob Peeters' replacement.
There are many positives we could list on either side. I simply make the point that the attempt on your part to assert equivalence is laughable. If there has been a lack of trust, it is caused by the actions of the owner, not anything the trust has done. And in any event the trust is there to try to represent fans and must do that in the way it thinks best, not kowtow to authority so that individuals can appear to be in the know. I despise people who do that, don't you?
I publish a fanzine which will continue to highlight things like the debt being piled on the club by the current owner, the waste of money on long contracts for players who do not play for the team and the risks attached to a planning application that is contrary in important respects to what the council has previously told the club it will allow.
I may be right and I may be wrong, but I am hardly going to suppress such critical discussion simply because Katrien Meire may find it inconvenient or dislike being challenged. It goes with the job whether she likes it or not, and actually I think she is quite capable of dealing with it. She doesn't need you to protect her and I doubt she thanks you for the impression you create that she does.
This thread is based on an article that most people, including me, haven't read, because very few Charlton supporters actually read the SLP. On that basis the level of analyis being applied is pretty daft. If she seriously expected an upsurge in attendances based on recent results then again she is being very naive, but I doubt she has been challenged on it by Roland or anyone else.
Just perhaps he was hoping to play the "I'm the new guy so let's move on from the many mistakes made both sides in the past and work on rebuilding some trust and a constructive relationship".
Less chance of that happening now IMHO.
A real shame.
Laughable argument. If she's that feeble she'd better quit now.
And so it goes on.
She is "feeble". She "better quit now"
And we wonder why she isn't rushing to ring you and those that are aligned with you for help and advice.
If you really want a "meaningful dialogue" then you are going about it in a very strange way.
It is almost as if you don't want her to talk to Steve Clarke as that might kill your fox.
Cardinal did the Thamsmead Iron invite you to the boat for StGs day ? are you attending ?
No but my mobile is down (grrrrrrrr). Far too busy to take a day off to celebrate the Bard's birthday, but I will raise an evening glass to the Christian Martyr, Georgios.
The thing is that the people on this message board, whatever side of the fence they sit on, care for this club a damn sight more than the b******* running it. They're only in it for the money.
All this tripe from Meire mentioning her support and love blah blah blah of Charlton Athletic, what a load of rubbish. She probably never heard of us until eighteen months ago.
Once she goes you will not see her backside in a seat at The Valley ever again.
Rant over, I'm off to see Elfsborg v Djurgarden.
I don't know why M. Duchatelet is "in it" but I'm confident it's not for the money.
I don't get it with M. Duchatelet , the Premiere league is 'The Promised Land' bundles of money and 2 be honest is not that far away with the 'Network' that he has. Being a business man I honestly thought when he took over this is what he wanted Premiership money. Now I have not got a clue what the guy wants
I don't get it with M. Duchatelet , the Premiere league is 'The Promised Land' bundles of money and 2 be honest is not that far away with the 'Network' that he has. Being a business man I honestly thought when he took over this is what he wanted Premiership money. Now I have not got a clue what the guy wants
Try the thread from Katrien Miere at Bromley Addicks, and the account of the meeting on Addicks Championship diary. Seems to me she said what the objectives were then.
1) The club were perfectly right to maintain silence with fan groups during the relegation struggle - for staying up was the only objective and any distraction from that goal was unnecessary. The club directors and management team have zero interest in liaising with anyone who criticises them 24/7. Or who seeks to selectively highlight certain decisions and outcomes. During my time on the Trust board I came to know two of the management team and there is no way anyone paid to work at that level to run OUR club is going to waste time nor dilute focus by liaising (and empowering) any group or individual whose agenda is aligned to be diametrically opposite the club strategy... fighting change for the sake of it. Bottom line I believe is that the Trust and others need to understand the journey and look at the options rather than react to one off decisions.
2) Some might criticise the players (and associated cost) acquired in January 2014 but the simple facts are: a) we stayed up - that was the objective b) all of those players have gone back or gone out on loan c) most importantly we have had two very active windows since then which have contributed in two ways: i) the performance and results on the pitch ii) the sustainability of our club in terms of the age profile of our squad and that we have five saleable playing assets this summer which is precisely five more than last season!
Anyone seeking to make a balanced appraisal of the club including the Supporters Trust and its board would do well to make note of the potential resale value of Gomez, Cousins, Gudmundsson*, Vetokele and Watt. *Todays Football League Paper suggests that Gudmundsson may be off to the FAPL this summer. I would venture that the fee involved will make a big hole in our annual losses.
If people don't wish to make a balanced appraisal then one has to question the motivation of such an approach?
We all want to see a stronger team and squad for 2015-16 and the club are keeping its cards very close to their chest. But those seeking to criticise 24/7 make no mention of the fact that the club is stronger today than it was in January 2014.
The simple fact remains that the Club now has clear choices to make in the summer over player retention, sales and acquisition. I would venture that those choices and our position in the League AND in terms of squad contracts is far, far advanced from April 2014.
I would suggest that all energy and analysis is focussed on these choices rather than rants about Koc, Nego, Piotr and Tucudean. To go on and on and on about these players without any mention of the £6M spent to acquire our current first team is disingenuous at best. I would venture that it is downright misleading and only serves to try to turn fans against the owner - painting him as incompetent at best and malicious at worst.
4) Finally the argument that M. Duchatelet is "piling up debt on the club" doesn't ring true when one considers that the accounts state that the CAFC Group has stacked up c. £75M of losses available for tax relief over the last 8-10 years. Almost all of those losses were racked up since we left the FAPL and our Club's debt is only lower than that number because directors and fans took a hit a few years ago. Most of those debts accrued while the club was in a downward spiral heading towards and remaining in League 1. That is factual and not a selective choice of decisions nor players. Last years accounts show an increase of £13M in the parent company debt. This funded losses (£6M) which were largely beyond the control of the new owner, the aquisition of players including Vetokele (4.3M) and paying off other debt such as the North Stand mortgage where I understand the lender demanded an additional payment to sign off the takeover. What they don't show is that today's squad is considerably more valuable than that inherited by Staprix.
It will take more debts to improve the playing squad unless the academy, network loans and free agents plus player sales keep the numbers down. Are we really arguing that top players should be sold to keep the loans on the balance sheet down when the owner is worth €500M and the FAPL pays £150M for just one year + parachute money? Palace recently reported a turnover of £90M and profits of £23M. For me promotion to the FAPL is the way to repair the balance sheet!
Quite simply Powell, Slater and Jiminez rescued us from League 1 and kept us in the Championship - over three seasons with the same squad with a cost of £18M of debts going on the balance sheet. That is a large sum of money but a fraction of what Al Fayed paid to do same at Fulham and it sets us on course a crack at the FAPL.
In summary M. Duchatelet has taken over now and he has just three choices to stem the sea of red ink: 1) Sell top players to cover the losses 2) Push for the top six increase revenues and player value, possible promotion to the FAPL 3) Try to be really smart and mix 1 & 2, i.e., sell top players to break even AND improve league position
Some will think option 3 impossible but Liege sold five players for €25M last summer, loaned us two decent players and went on to aquire half a new squad for €10M. The outcome is that they finished fourth instead of first after 30 games. I'm not commenting on the pros and cons of the Liege approach nor which option will be selected above. Just observing that this is how M.Duchatelet appears to run things.
So the Trust and other commentators might do well to focus on the choices ahead, ask all the fans what they think and not just a few hundred who post on message boards. Look to emphasise the business case for strengthening the playing side of the squad to compete with the top eight over 46 games.
Conversely, if members of the Trust board wish to parrot the VOTV line about cost effectiveness and the January 2014 window that is entirely up to them. But I would suggest that, as above, it won't get them into a closer relationship with the club. Personally I find it ironic that we hear more and more about this as the squad gets stronger... "oh but the debt is being piled on the club and look how bad the players are!"
Sure I would say, but look how good the two Liege loans are (yes from that despised network!) and look at the fact we have acquired two decent strikers on long term deals and two yong academy players who have been given a chance to shine...and add value.
"But Koc, Nego, Tucudean blah blah"
I look forward to the Wembley Way edition of VOTV on my walk to the play off final... lead article highlighting "how they got it wrong"
seriously red, a good post worth consideration, and debate, and a bit of dispute.
On 1) You say, and repeat later that there are those who criticise 24/7 which really isn't true. I would say that without exception in the spectrum of support there has been praise or encouragement for at least something. The aspiration to develop Sparrows Lane is one thing that nobody has criticised, although there is an exercise of caution regarding planning and funding, but the principle is universally welcomed. people won't fight change 'for the sake of it', but they might resist change for any number of reasons, but not change per se.
On 2) Well Diego Poyet was an asset of sorts, some money will come in, and Morrison has been an asset even if the sale was for a paltry sum. However we did stay up, and the age profile is better. The churn of the in and out lot is mysterious, if they come off our books (and you mention the degree we have or don't have assets) then it will have a neutralising effect, if the tab is picked up by Staprix and we are not lumbered then OK, providing the trading rules allow for that.
You rightly mention £6m spent, but we ought to add to that the money spent on PP and others as well, the good spending needs to be lumped in with the bad spending shouldn't it? This approaching summer is not a million miles different to last, although we do start from a stronger base, but we appointed a manager who has now gone, and signed Tucadean as well as the other guys, and have relied on the insecure presence of loaned players. This summer has to be better than the last one, and I believe that is what fans are wary of...leaving aside Koc and Nego, we have got Lepoint on a long term deal, and that particular signing has led more than a few of us to wonder a bit. In addition, the signings of Diarra, Johnson, and Eagles is also not wholly convincing in as much as they were players hanging around out of contract and at the time they were the best we could do, it certainly felt desperate, but as you point out, we have had good results with these players, but there remains the nagging doubt with me they were out of contract for a reason.
I look at it as more of a mixed bag than you do, and as for the club/supporter/Trust relationship...well that is a bit of an omnishambles, and Katrien has been on an interview and charm offensive for a reason, if it was all about us singing from the same hymn sheet what made the current PR stuff so necessary and so intense?
Personally it all feels messy and confusing, and I commend you in being able to interpret things so cleanly, because I can't...beyond results of course, a win is the easiest of all things to understand against the background of goings on that seem so 'other'.
Not a very helpful thing to say is it, at this point?
Don't agree with the comment, but its unlikely to do any damage, if the Belgians don't know that there are some sections of Charlton fans that are anti them then maybe they should be out as I would want owners that are aware of fans feelings.
Comments
"The voice of the intellect is a soft one,it doesn't rest until it has gained a hearing"
I don't know why M. Duchatelet is "in it" but I'm confident it's not for the money.
Morgans fault again
Better players hence why we're top half(just about)
Academy boys Gomez, Cousins, doing very well and Fox improving after sticky start.
Katrien has come out fighting and put herself about in the media.
The 3rd round will be played out once the season ends and we know if we're going to improve the squad or lose a couple of our better players ?
Can't see how the squad won't be weaker unless we really get lucky in our shopping at the Bargain end of the market ?
Steve Clarke is no more "aligned with me" than you are. I've probably spoken to you more times in the last year than I have to him.
You try to assert there is an equivalence between mistakes made by the trust and the club. I have no idea what these "mistakes" might me on the trust side, although you have pursued a peculiarly idiosyncratic and vindictive agenda towards some people (previously) involved in the trust so I assume you have your own ideas. On the football club side they include bringing in inadequate players, trying to force the coach to play them, selling Kermorgant without replacing him for a year, Bob Peeters, and the dire handling of Bob Peeters' replacement.
There are many positives we could list on either side. I simply make the point that the attempt on your part to assert equivalence is laughable. If there has been a lack of trust, it is caused by the actions of the owner, not anything the trust has done. And in any event the trust is there to try to represent fans and must do that in the way it thinks best, not kowtow to authority so that individuals can appear to be in the know. I despise people who do that, don't you?
I publish a fanzine which will continue to highlight things like the debt being piled on the club by the current owner, the waste of money on long contracts for players who do not play for the team and the risks attached to a planning application that is contrary in important respects to what the council has previously told the club it will allow.
I may be right and I may be wrong, but I am hardly going to suppress such critical discussion simply because Katrien Meire may find it inconvenient or dislike being challenged. It goes with the job whether she likes it or not, and actually I think she is quite capable of dealing with it. She doesn't need you to protect her and I doubt she thanks you for the impression you create that she does.
This thread is based on an article that most people, including me, haven't read, because very few Charlton supporters actually read the SLP. On that basis the level of analyis being applied is pretty daft. If she seriously expected an upsurge in attendances based on recent results then again she is being very naive, but I doubt she has been challenged on it by Roland or anyone else.
2) Some might criticise the players (and associated cost) acquired in January 2014 but the simple facts are:
a) we stayed up - that was the objective
b) all of those players have gone back or gone out on loan
c) most importantly we have had two very active windows since then which have contributed in two ways:
i) the performance and results on the pitch
ii) the sustainability of our club in terms of the age profile of our squad and that we have five saleable playing assets this summer which is precisely five more than last season!
Anyone seeking to make a balanced appraisal of the club including the Supporters Trust and its board would do well to make note of the potential resale value of Gomez, Cousins, Gudmundsson*, Vetokele and Watt. *Todays Football League Paper suggests that Gudmundsson may be off to the FAPL this summer. I would venture that the fee involved will make a big hole in our annual losses.
If people don't wish to make a balanced appraisal then one has to question the motivation of such an approach?
We all want to see a stronger team and squad for 2015-16 and the club are keeping its cards very close to their chest. But those seeking to criticise 24/7 make no mention of the fact that the club is stronger today than it was in January 2014.
The simple fact remains that the Club now has clear choices to make in the summer over player retention, sales and acquisition. I would venture that those choices and our position in the League AND in terms of squad contracts is far, far advanced from April 2014.
I would suggest that all energy and analysis is focussed on these choices rather than rants about Koc, Nego, Piotr and Tucudean. To go on and on and on about these players without any mention of the £6M spent to acquire our current first team is disingenuous at best. I would venture that it is downright misleading and only serves to try to turn fans against the owner - painting him as incompetent at best and malicious at worst.
4) Finally the argument that M. Duchatelet is "piling up debt on the club" doesn't ring true when one considers that the accounts state that the CAFC Group has stacked up c. £75M of losses available for tax relief over the last 8-10 years. Almost all of those losses were racked up since we left the FAPL and our Club's debt is only lower than that number because directors and fans took a hit a few years ago. Most of those debts accrued while the club was in a downward spiral heading towards and remaining in League 1. That is factual and not a selective choice of decisions nor players. Last years accounts show an increase of £13M in the parent company debt. This funded losses (£6M) which were largely beyond the control of the new owner, the aquisition of players including Vetokele (4.3M) and paying off other debt such as the North Stand mortgage where I understand the lender demanded an additional payment to sign off the takeover. What they don't show is that today's squad is considerably more valuable than that inherited by Staprix.
It will take more debts to improve the playing squad unless the academy, network loans and free agents plus player sales keep the numbers down. Are we really arguing that top players should be sold to keep the loans on the balance sheet down when the owner is worth €500M and the FAPL pays £150M for just one year + parachute money? Palace recently reported a turnover of £90M and profits of £23M. For me promotion to the FAPL is the way to repair the balance sheet!
Quite simply Powell, Slater and Jiminez rescued us from League 1 and kept us in the Championship - over three seasons with the same squad with a cost of £18M of debts going on the balance sheet. That is a large sum of money but a fraction of what Al Fayed paid to do same at Fulham and it sets us on course a crack at the FAPL.
In summary M. Duchatelet has taken over now and he has just three choices to stem the sea of red ink:
1) Sell top players to cover the losses
2) Push for the top six increase revenues and player value, possible promotion to the FAPL
3) Try to be really smart and mix 1 & 2, i.e., sell top players to break even AND improve league position
Some will think option 3 impossible but Liege sold five players for €25M last summer, loaned us two decent players and went on to aquire half a new squad for €10M. The outcome is that they finished fourth instead of first after 30 games. I'm not commenting on the pros and cons of the Liege approach nor which option will be selected above. Just observing that this is how M.Duchatelet appears to run things.
So the Trust and other commentators might do well to focus on the choices ahead, ask all the fans what they think and not just a few hundred who post on message boards. Look to emphasise the business case for strengthening the playing side of the squad to compete with the top eight over 46 games.
Conversely, if members of the Trust board wish to parrot the VOTV line about cost effectiveness and the January 2014 window that is entirely up to them. But I would suggest that, as above, it won't get them into a closer relationship with the club. Personally I find it ironic that we hear more and more about this as the squad gets stronger... "oh but the debt is being piled on the club and look how bad the players are!"
Sure I would say, but look how good the two Liege loans are (yes from that despised network!) and look at the fact we have acquired two decent strikers on long term deals and two yong academy players who have been given a chance to shine...and add value.
"But Koc, Nego, Tucudean blah blah"
I look forward to the Wembley Way edition of VOTV on my walk to the play off final... lead article highlighting "how they got it wrong"
On 1) You say, and repeat later that there are those who criticise 24/7 which really isn't true. I would say that without exception in the spectrum of support there has been praise or encouragement for at least something. The aspiration to develop Sparrows Lane is one thing that nobody has criticised, although there is an exercise of caution regarding planning and funding, but the principle is universally welcomed. people won't fight change 'for the sake of it', but they might resist change for any number of reasons, but not change per se.
On 2) Well Diego Poyet was an asset of sorts, some money will come in, and Morrison has been an asset even if the sale was for a paltry sum. However we did stay up, and the age profile is better. The churn of the in and out lot is mysterious, if they come off our books (and you mention the degree we have or don't have assets) then it will have a neutralising effect, if the tab is picked up by Staprix and we are not lumbered then OK, providing the trading rules allow for that.
You rightly mention £6m spent, but we ought to add to that the money spent on PP and others as well, the good spending needs to be lumped in with the bad spending shouldn't it?
This approaching summer is not a million miles different to last, although we do start from a stronger base, but we appointed a manager who has now gone, and signed Tucadean as well as the other guys, and have relied on the insecure presence of loaned players.
This summer has to be better than the last one, and I believe that is what fans are wary of...leaving aside Koc and Nego, we have got Lepoint on a long term deal, and that particular signing has led more than a few of us to wonder a bit. In addition, the signings of Diarra, Johnson, and Eagles is also not wholly convincing in as much as they were players hanging around out of contract and at the time they were the best we could do, it certainly felt desperate, but as you point out, we have had good results with these players, but there remains the nagging doubt with me they were out of contract for a reason.
I look at it as more of a mixed bag than you do, and as for the club/supporter/Trust relationship...well that is a bit of an omnishambles, and Katrien has been on an interview and charm offensive for a reason, if it was all about us singing from the same hymn sheet what made the current PR stuff so necessary and so intense?
Personally it all feels messy and confusing, and I commend you in being able to interpret things so cleanly, because I can't...beyond results of course, a win is the easiest of all things to understand against the background of goings on that seem so 'other'.
On a back to thread note
In all seriousness some of you on here are obsessed with this woman, your critiquing every single word, action, reaction,
Never since the infamous Geordie smiler have I ever seen or read anything like this
If I was afka I'd seriously consider not having any more threads on her as it's not healthy for any of those involved
Some of you need to get something else or someone else to be obsessed with
I would have the Belgians out tomorrow but they are here to stay so hopefully they will be a success, that is all I want for Charlton.....like us all.
Not a very helpful thing to say is it, at this point?