It seems to me that for all the big talk, Roland was never actually investing his own money in this. The fact that it took forever to start and then stopped with Robinson admitting that the Lookman money was going on the training ground instead of the team suggests that the project never had funds in place, but was just waiting for a windfall player sale.
Even Robinson has been sold a line as I suspect all the Lookman money has been used to absorb losses and the remainder sent to Belgium.
If Roland is selling there is even less reason for him to spend money on it.
It seems to me that for all the big talk, Roland was never actually investing his own money in this. The fact that it took forever to start and then stopped with Robinson admitting that the Lookman money was going on the training ground instead of the team suggests that the project never had funds in place, but was just waiting for a windfall player sale.
Even Robinson has been sold a line as I suspect all the Lookman money has been used to absorb losses and the remainder sent to Belgium.
If Roland is selling there is even less reason for him to spend money on it.
No remainder to send.
It's hard to see how the business was ever going to generate any of the funds up front to deliver the scheme. Transfer profits are needed to cover operating losses. As Grapevine argued on the takeover thread, if this is your strategic plan (and ignoring the fact it won't stack up anyway) you invest the money and get on with it.
all a bit of a building site when I was down there Friday afternoon, the new 3g pitches are amazing though.
whilst keeping one eye on my daughters having a coaching session, I was also watching some small sided academy games between CAFC and Man City, some superb little players on show
You don't build a house and then worry about lights, power and fuel
True, but a large project rarely waits to get started before permanent power and fuel is in place. For example, you could use the electrical supply from the Rugby club as a temp power source
You don't build a house and then worry about lights, power and fuel
The problem is it has been going on forever and less and less of us believe it will ever happen. The irritating thing is that the project seems to have been exaggerated hugely as a smokescreen and so as to appear to be a well run club. This issue is about delivery.
You don't build a house and then worry about lights, power and fuel
No, but you usually work out that you need lights, power and fuel before you draw up a plan to start work on the house two years before they are available. Either the project management on this scheme is abysmal or the client has repeatedly deferred and dabbled.
You don't build a house and then worry about lights, power and fuel
No, but you usually work out that you need lights, power and fuel before you draw up a plan to start work on the house two years before they are available. Either the project management on this scheme is abysmal or the client has repeatedly deferred and dabbled.
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with engine running with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though just as easily could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
So, (craning my neck at 90 degrees) handover was should have been, December 2016 - have i got that right? I assume this is an official cafc document. We always knew it was way behind schedule, seeing the figures in black and white though really makes it plain how incompetent our 'Dynamic duo' are.
Always thought the building was the best thing this regime would do. Now I would much rather he sold up ( the stadium MUST be included) and we have to take our chances with a new owner.
At the present rate of progress, when its finally finished myself (and a few others) might well be looking down from 'the great stadium in the sky' !
@Addictedoldgit Yes an official photo. The plan was on public display in reception at Sparrows Lane but a few years ago now. 2014 I think but would have to check. I took the photo myself.
Note handover was due to be 5 December 2016 so someone had an eye on history.
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
Handover of the finished project should have been about a year ago. The club said the Lookman money pays the costs. At the moment according to Swisdom cables are being laid. Is that a complicated process that holds the project up for the years? Or has this project been badly managed and under funded. We now enter short days and bad weather which is a good excuse for more of nothing.
Carrying out a building project comes down to leadership, money and the team of professionals/ builders employed. Sparrows Lane is not a big project - you can build a whole new stadium e.g. Spurs in 2 years if there is the will.
Carrying out a building project comes down to leadership, money and the team of professionals/ builders employed. Sparrows Lane is not a big project - you can build a whole new stadium e.g. Spurs in 2 years if there is the will.
With the spurs project the money and time implications are significantly more pressing - hardly a fair comparison. Charlton’s training ground must probably be one of the biggest in the country, it’s not as if they are short of a spare pitch or two to train on or have somewhere to run around to build up some stamina. And if we’re 7th in the table of producing footballers that actually go on to play then we can’t be suffering too much because the building progress is taking longer than planned. So what’s the rush ?
No question that Duchatelet is dragging his feet in getting the project over the line. For me it’s down to not wanting to spend a penny more than he must because about 10 months ago he decided he wanted shot of the whole damned thing.
If the latest takeover goes belly up then I suspect we will see Konsa money being claimed as being used to move the training ground project forward but at a snails pace while RD seeks another buyer.
Carrying out a building project comes down to leadership, money and the team of professionals/ builders employed. Sparrows Lane is not a big project - you can build a whole new stadium e.g. Spurs in 2 years if there is the will.
With the spurs project the money and time implications are significantly more pressing - hardly a fair comparison. Charlton’s training ground must probably be one of the biggest in the country, it’s not as if they are short of a spare pitch or two to train on or have somewhere to run around to build up some stamina. And if we’re 7th in the table of producing footballers that actually go on to play then we can’t be suffering too much because the building progress is taking longer than planned. So what’s the rush ?
The club told the council two years ago that the present training ground was impacting its ability to recruit both young players and first-team players.
The development of young players takes years, obviously. [edited]
If there's no rush then we might equally well ask what's the point? It's a project that's unaffordable for the business and is unlikely ever to generate a marginal return over and above what was originally proposed.
The point is that it was apparently the cornerstone of RD's business plan (such as it was) and yet the approach to it has been anything but businesslike, with delays, diversions and false priorities, e.g. Lookman money allegedly being spent on facilities for CACT and the neighbouring rugby club that have very limited or no impact on the club's bottom line, instead of focusing on the business priority of first-team football. As Grapevine put it, "muddle" from start to finish.
@Airman Brown Agree with all you say, but @letthegoodtimesroll quote of 7th in the table refers to the 7th most successful academy in the UK, behind Man Utd who lead the way.
@Airman Brown Agree with all you say, but @letthegoodtimesroll quote of 7th in the table refers to the 7th most successful academy in the UK, behind Man Utd who lead the way.
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
But start on site was supposed to be 12th October 2015.
The 'lead in' time of 14th September 2015 would be to arrange with the service providers to provide their costings for the works, whilst your builders and specialist carried out the excavations, trenches and first fixes, ready for those providers to come in and carry out their installations and connections where necessary.
Are you saying we are now starting from square one? Can none of the existing services be utilised? Surely there must have been a three phased supply already on site?
There is simply no excuses as to why this hasn't moved forward, despite your defence of the programme. Nothing but lies, obfuscation and atrocious management, which is typical of this regime. If this was the real world the Project Manager would have been sacked about a year ago, particularly as we were informed this was his primary focus until the academy was complete.
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
But start on site was supposed to be 12th October 2015.
The 'lead in' time of 14th September 2015 would be to arrange with the service providers to provide their costings for the works, whilst your builders and specialist carried out the excavations, trenches and first fixes, ready for those providers to come in and carry out their installations and connections where necessary.
Are you saying we are now starting from square one? Can none of the existing services be utilised? Surely there must have been a three phased supply already on site?
There is simply no excuses as to why this hasn't moved forward, despite your defence of the programme. Nothing but lies, obfuscation and atrocious management, which is typical of this regime. If this was the real world the Project Manager would have been sacked about a year ago, particularly as we were informed this was his primary focus until the academy was complete.
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
*Residents in Sparrows lane may notice interrupted power and the occasional flickering lights while "engineers" hook up the cables to the nearest available lamppost*
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
But start on site was supposed to be 12th October 2015.
The 'lead in' time of 14th September 2015 would be to arrange with the service providers to provide their costings for the works, whilst your builders and specialist carried out the excavations, trenches and first fixes, ready for those providers to come in and carry out their installations and connections where necessary.
Are you saying we are now starting from square one? Can none of the existing services be utilised? Surely there must have been a three phased supply already on site?
There is simply no excuses as to why this hasn't moved forward, despite your defence of the programme. Nothing but lies, obfuscation and atrocious management, which is typical of this regime. If this was the real world the Project Manager would have been sacked about a year ago, particularly as we were informed this was his primary focus until the academy was complete.
What the hell does he do?
Not sure when I've defended the programme - I'm just giving an update that something is happening
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned. Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy. Mini digger seen parked up nearby with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though could be a joint. Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on a shovel. Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps. In other words, normal work in progress.
Thankfully none of the descriptions match those of our guys there yesterday who were working their arses off pullling and installing many hundreds of meters of HV cable. Power will be sorted soon
But start on site was supposed to be 12th October 2015.
The 'lead in' time of 14th September 2015 would be to arrange with the service providers to provide their costings for the works, whilst your builders and specialist carried out the excavations, trenches and first fixes, ready for those providers to come in and carry out their installations and connections where necessary.
Are you saying we are now starting from square one? Can none of the existing services be utilised? Surely there must have been a three phased supply already on site?
There is simply no excuses as to why this hasn't moved forward, despite your defence of the programme. Nothing but lies, obfuscation and atrocious management, which is typical of this regime. If this was the real world the Project Manager would have been sacked about a year ago, particularly as we were informed this was his primary focus until the academy was complete.
What the hell does he do?
Not sure when I've defended the programme - I'm just giving an update that something is happening
Apologise 'defended' wasn't the right wording. I know you are just as pissed off about progress
Appreciate your updates, but I feel it necessary to highlight the less positive aspect of the procurement and construction phases of this project and the appalling management of the programme as a whole - particularly as we kept being told that the funding is in place.
It obviously isn't, as the whole academy would have been completed by now. By comparison, The Shard took 40 months to complete, which I think you'll agree is a slightly more complicated construction project.
I know that a large part of a construction projects costs is spent before anything much above ground can be seen. Which is why construction project managers measure progress by checking if the budget is being spent to plan, rather than what is visible. Clearly the training ground budget was never funded, and the necessary work has proceeded piecemeal on the back of transfer windfalls, but if and when the balance of money is released, the buildings will probably spring up quite quickly.
The sole problem I suggest is Roland's refusal to fund the project as promised, rather than lack of effort or management control.
Comments
Even Robinson has been sold a line as I suspect all the Lookman money has been used to absorb losses and the remainder sent to Belgium.
If Roland is selling there is even less reason for him to spend money on it.
You don't build a house and then worry about lights, power and fuel
It's hard to see how the business was ever going to generate any of the funds up front to deliver the scheme. Transfer profits are needed to cover operating losses. As Grapevine argued on the takeover thread, if this is your strategic plan (and ignoring the fact it won't stack up anyway) you invest the money and get on with it.
whilst keeping one eye on my daughters having a coaching session, I was also watching some small sided academy games between CAFC and Man City, some superb little players on show
The irritating thing is that the project seems to have been exaggerated hugely as a smokescreen and so as to appear to be a well run club.
This issue is about delivery.
perhaps the SMT could dabble off
Two safety helmeted men with clip boards seen yesterday morning approx 10.30 looking in a hole adjacent to small trench. Third one talking at length on mobile phone....out of earshot of the two already mentioned.
Two further men, also helmeted, seen eating bacon sarnies one with a can of Coke the other with a can of shandy.
Mini digger seen parked up nearby with engine running with donkey jacketed man sitting inside rolling what looks like a fag......though just as easily could be a joint.
Youth in camouflage jacket standing next to digger smoking and drinking can of Special Brew, second youth eating a pot noodle and sausage roll whilst leaning on shovel.
Two other men, one on mobile phone with fag wearing a Chelsea shirt who occasionally sniffs and gobs, second reading The Sun whilst leaning up against a wall eating bag of cheese and onion crisps.
In other words, normal work in progress.
Note handover was due to be 5 December 2016 so someone had an eye on history.
The club said the Lookman money pays the costs.
At the moment according to Swisdom cables are being laid.
Is that a complicated process that holds the project up for the years?
Or has this project been badly managed and under funded.
We now enter short days and bad weather which is a good excuse for more of nothing.
If the latest takeover goes belly up then I suspect we will see Konsa money being claimed as being used to move the training ground project forward but at a snails pace while RD seeks another buyer.
The development of young players takes years, obviously. [edited]
If there's no rush then we might equally well ask what's the point? It's a project that's unaffordable for the business and is unlikely ever to generate a marginal return over and above what was originally proposed.
The point is that it was apparently the cornerstone of RD's business plan (such as it was) and yet the approach to it has been anything but businesslike, with delays, diversions and false priorities, e.g. Lookman money allegedly being spent on facilities for CACT and the neighbouring rugby club that have very limited or no impact on the club's bottom line, instead of focusing on the business priority of first-team football. As Grapevine put it, "muddle" from start to finish.
The 'lead in' time of 14th September 2015 would be to arrange with the service providers to provide their costings for the works, whilst your builders and specialist carried out the excavations, trenches and first fixes, ready for those providers to come in and carry out their installations and connections where necessary.
Are you saying we are now starting from square one? Can none of the existing services be utilised? Surely there must have been a three phased supply already on site?
There is simply no excuses as to why this hasn't moved forward, despite your defence of the programme. Nothing but lies, obfuscation and atrocious management, which is typical of this regime. If this was the real world the Project Manager would have been sacked about a year ago, particularly as we were informed this was his primary focus until the academy was complete.
What the hell does he do?
Appreciate your updates, but I feel it necessary to highlight the less positive aspect of the procurement and construction phases of this project and the appalling management of the programme as a whole - particularly as we kept being told that the funding is in place.
It obviously isn't, as the whole academy would have been completed by now. By comparison, The Shard took 40 months to complete, which I think you'll agree is a slightly more complicated construction project.
The sole problem I suggest is Roland's refusal to fund the project as promised, rather than lack of effort or management control.