I hate the fascination of playing short from the back like Man City. 10 yard pass, cause panic and then goalie boots it. It needs to stop.
It's funny cause then the team effectively played hoofball anyway. Similar to when a winger does a thousand step overs and the cross leads to nothing, could have just crossed it and it's the same outcome
the easiest World Cup draw we will ever have may have fooled plenty but we aren’t all that that’s not to say we won’t become decent but for the time being we are a standard ok English team , who will beat weak national sides but against anything half decent we will come up short .
What would’ve happened if we’d won this ‘competition’ and what happens now we’re out? I still don’t understand
We'd have been awarded a trophy
Nothing else would have happened... These Finals are only to decide a winner of the competition and have no bearing on Euro 2020 or the Play-Offs to Qualify for it
Fine margins and all that - still not convinced that it was offside - but why did we only start playing after they equalised?
Anybody wondering why Pep doesn't play Stones got their answer tonight, was an absolute liability and to keep making the same mistakes suggests that he isn't learning.
Same with Walker - he may have pace, but is reckless, gets caught out of position and gives away needless fouls that put us in trouble.
No doubt that Gomez and TAA are better long term bets for the right side of the defence, with the jury also being out on Maguire who also looked shaky.
End of a long season and the boys gave us an unforgettable summer last year - despite this was not a professional performance at all, stones is next to useless and annoys me that he keeps getting picked
What is interesting is that so many people have been saying Gomez and Stones would be the England CB partnership for years. 1 game later and it's a case of Stones should never wear the shirt again! I cant defend was one of the single worst defensive performances I have seen from England player but who else is there? Maguire was only marginally better and I'll never be convinced he is good enough for the very top level.
Think the only defenders whose stock has risen after that performance were the ones that didnt play!
Shame to see people turning on John Stones so quickly. He's a good player. He goes through patches and sometimes he gets a bit silly with his risk taking at the back, but he's not won the Premier League twice by accident, and there were relatively few complaints about him when we made it to the semi-finals of the World Cup (where he scored two goals in one game). He just goes to show that most English fans would still prefer a centre half who hoofs the ball clear at every opportunity rather than a more modern one. There's risks in playing out from the back but it also can prevent teams building up a lot of momentum driving the ball at you again and again when everything is a clearance. Stones made a mistake and had a bad game, but writing off completely a bloke who has an immediate history of winning the English league and being a key part of our most successful England squad in years is bonkers
For a glorified friendly I'm amazed at the quantity of fans that went out to Portugal.
Sky said this was England’s chance to win their first trophy since 1966 which I thought was overselling it a bit, shouldn’t it be in the same class as La Tournoi that England won prior to France 1998?
What is interesting is that so many people have been saying Gomez and Stones would be the England CB partnership for years. 1 game later and it's a case of Stones should never wear the shirt again! I cant defend was one of the single worst defensive performances I have seen from England player but who else is there? Maguire was only marginally better and I'll never be convinced he is good enough for the very top level.
Think the only defenders whose stock has risen after that performance were the ones that didnt play!
Was thinking the exact same last night. Gomez and Stones has been the talked about partnership for ages.
It will be interesting how Stones plays next time out because following so much criticism its his character that will be the big test and the next few games could shape his England career.
Shame to see people turning on John Stones so quickly. He's a good player. He goes through patches and sometimes he gets a bit silly with his risk taking at the back, but he's not won the Premier League twice by accident, and there were relatively few complaints about him when we made it to the semi-finals of the World Cup (where he scored two goals in one game). He just goes to show that most English fans would still prefer a centre half who hoofs the ball clear at every opportunity rather than a more modern one. There's risks in playing out from the back but it also can prevent teams building up a lot of momentum driving the ball at you again and again when everything is a clearance. Stones made a mistake and had a bad game, but writing off completely a bloke who has an immediate history of winning the English league and being a key part of our most successful England squad in years is bonkers
Man City won the league, Stones has barely played of late. If we start picking players just because of what their club has done then we're right back to the England of old.
Shame to see people turning on John Stones so quickly. He's a good player. He goes through patches and sometimes he gets a bit silly with his risk taking at the back, but he's not won the Premier League twice by accident, and there were relatively few complaints about him when we made it to the semi-finals of the World Cup (where he scored two goals in one game). He just goes to show that most English fans would still prefer a centre half who hoofs the ball clear at every opportunity rather than a more modern one. There's risks in playing out from the back but it also can prevent teams building up a lot of momentum driving the ball at you again and again when everything is a clearance. Stones made a mistake and had a bad game, but writing off completely a bloke who has an immediate history of winning the English league and being a key part of our most successful England squad in years is bonkers
Man City won the league, Stones has barely played of late. If we start picking players just because of what their club has done then we're right back to the England of old.
Bang on. When the pressure was on.....Stones got dropped for old big ‘ead.
The thing with Stones is that these mistakes last night are not a new thing, they’re not a surprise with him.
He has continued to make the same mistakes, get caught on the ball in areas of the pitch that it’s criminal to lose to ball in, to dwell on the ball the way he does, it’s ridiculous.
He plays in a team, albeit not featuring much of late and when he does it’s to sit in front of the back four so he isn’t so close to his own goal, but he plays in a team which practice playing from the back every single day. To continue to look so poor shows he hasn’t progressed and I think Pep knows that too hence why not playing him.
It shows naïveté and it needs Southgate to be brave and drop him until he plays regularly and well for his club, be it Man City or anyone else if he leaves. Gomez is a better player, a more rounded and accomplished, controlled player. That’s not bias, that’s fact. Stones all throughout his career has made these same mistakes, I can’t ever remember Gomez even looking as though he would make these mistakes. One other example is Gomez still has Neymar in his pocket when we played Brazil a while back, if that was Stones, there is no chance he would’ve dealt with him in the same manner.
It's not ideal when Stones has barely played for City in recent months. I think he has flaws in decision making on the pitch, but that's not something that can be eradicated when sitting on the bench
The real problem is that in a three at the back both Stones and Maguire have a bit of cover for both of their weak spots - but in a centre back pairing, they can be exposed more easily.
It was obvious that the Dutch fancied us to cock it up at the back, as they pressed us very high and very quickly, trying to force the very mistakes that we eventually made.
Problem Southgate has tho is can he pick players on their England form? Stones has been good in an England shirt and had a decent World Cup.
Southgate certainly needs to beware of his loyalty to that World Cup team... If they're not good enough then they need to be ditched - Joachim Low has finally learnt that with his Germany players from 2014!!
For a glorified friendly I'm amazed at the quantity of fans that went out to Portugal.
Sky said this was England’s chance to win their first trophy since 1966 which I thought was overselling it a bit, shouldn’t it be in the same class as La Tournoi that England won prior to France 1998?
Also, England won the SheBelieves Cup very recently.
Would probably put Maddison or Foden in ahead of Oxlade Chamberlain
For me in the Euros next year would have
Pickford Alexander-Arnold - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell Henderson - X - Rice Sancho - Kane - Sterling
One of Foden / Maddison / Alli / Barkley in that "X" role depending how well they do next year, playing just in front of both Henderson and Rice (needs time) in support of the front three
Chilwell v Shaw is another position that will be one that could chop and change ahead of the Euros next summer
Would probably put Maddison or Foden in ahead of Oxlade Chamberlain
For me in the Euros next year would have
Pickford Alexander-Arnold - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell Henderson - X - Rice Sancho - Kane - Sterling
One of Foden / Maddison / Alli / Barkley in that "X" role depending how well they do next year, playing just in front of both Henderson and Rice (needs time) in support of the front three
Chilwell v Shaw is another position that will be one that could chop and change ahead of the Euros next summer
I like the look of that, but we all know X will be Delph
the easiest World Cup draw we will ever have may have fooled plenty but we aren’t all that that’s not to say we won’t become decent but for the time being we are a standard ok English team , who will beat weak national sides but against anything half decent we will come up short .
Comments
Gomez had a good game.
It's funny cause then the team effectively played hoofball anyway. Similar to when a winger does a thousand step overs and the cross leads to nothing, could have just crossed it and it's the same outcome
that’s not to say we won’t become decent but for the time being we are a standard ok English team , who will beat weak national sides but against anything half decent we will come up short .
Anybody wondering why Pep doesn't play Stones got their answer tonight, was an absolute liability and to keep making the same mistakes suggests that he isn't learning.
Same with Walker - he may have pace, but is reckless, gets caught out of position and gives away needless fouls that put us in trouble.
No doubt that Gomez and TAA are better long term bets for the right side of the defence, with the jury also being out on Maguire who also looked shaky.
Think the only defenders whose stock has risen after that performance were the ones that didnt play!
That was shocking. Passing was shocking. Control was shocking. Movement was shocking. Shape was shocking. Concentration was beyond shocking.
How many times did we needlessly give away the ball by dallying on it? 25-30?
Did Rice decide he was just gonna hide away for this one?
I'm amazed we were at 1-1 for as long as we were, thanks only to how toothless the Dutch are upfront no doubt.
Southgate leaves it too long to change the shape when it's clearly not working. (Ala Croatia game).
Unprofessional. Players already in holiday mode
It will be interesting how Stones plays next time out because following so much criticism its his character that will be the big test and the next few games could shape his England career.
He has continued to make the same mistakes, get caught on the ball in areas of the pitch that it’s criminal to lose to ball in, to dwell on the ball the way he does, it’s ridiculous.
He plays in a team, albeit not featuring much of late and when he does it’s to sit in front of the back four so he isn’t so close to his own goal, but he plays in a team which practice playing from the back every single day. To continue to look so poor shows he hasn’t progressed and I think Pep knows that too hence why not playing him.
It shows naïveté and it needs Southgate to be brave and drop him until he plays regularly and well for his club, be it Man City or anyone else if he leaves. Gomez is a better player, a more rounded and accomplished, controlled player. That’s not bias, that’s fact. Stones all throughout his career has made these same mistakes, I can’t ever remember Gomez even looking as though he would make these mistakes. One other example is Gomez still has Neymar in his pocket when we played Brazil a while back, if that was Stones, there is no chance he would’ve dealt with him in the same manner.
He just isn’t good enough.
It was obvious that the Dutch fancied us to cock it up at the back, as they pressed us very high and very quickly, trying to force the very mistakes that we eventually made.
Pickford
TAA
Gomez
Maguire
Stones
Shaw
Henderson
Barkley
Oxlade Chamberlain
Sancho
Kane
Sterling
especially with 12 players
TAA
Gomez
Maguire
Stones
Shaw
Henderson
Ox
Sancho
Sterling
Kane
For me in the Euros next year would have
Pickford
Alexander-Arnold - Gomez - Maguire - Chilwell
Henderson - X - Rice
Sancho - Kane - Sterling
One of Foden / Maddison / Alli / Barkley in that "X" role depending how well they do next year, playing just in front of both Henderson and Rice (needs time) in support of the front three
Chilwell v Shaw is another position that will be one that could chop and change ahead of the Euros next summer