Half day closing on Thursdays ... Just like the good old days when shops used to be open 9-5, Monday to Saturday with half day closing on Thursday. Closed on Sunday so that we could all go to church, have a drink up the pub, home for lunch then a snooze before songs of praise and a shellfish supper. Memories ...
It's a silly idea because more revenue will be lost than saved and if you want to increase ticket sales you don't do so by reducing the opportunity for people to buy, particularly within 48 hours of Saturday home games. Of course some people will come back later or make other plans, but others won't. What it really reflects is that the club isn't selling many tickets in general, but it's still bonkers.
What if by closing on Thursday pm enables them to open more ticket windows an hour or so before kickoff on matchdays when the queues are sometimes horrific. Surely that will encourage on the day sales?
The issues on matchdays are shortage of windows (and physical constraints with the north ticket office), accessible computers, working ticket printers and trained staff.
To put this in perspective, if Thursday afternoon is the quietest period during the week then you only need two people - one on the phones and one to cover the window. Most of the time they won't be selling, so they can do other things too. The club pays about £8 an hour max, so 4 hours x 2 people x £8 = £64. Add on-costs, say £80. That's about average net revenue from 5-6 home match ticket sales. Actual sales will vary and many would just be displaced, but it's not possible to say that half a dozen wouldn't be lost on average.
The reason they will want to close is more likely that dealing with customers is inconvenient. Issues arise that draw in the manager, etc. It's easier to do the admin work without interruption, but Charlton is a professional football club playing in the second tier, not a non-League outfit in the 1950s. It needs to deals with the public accordingly.
Don't think the reason is dealing with customers is inconvenient?
this has however raised the concern of what exactly are the Club doing to try to fill The Valley. They have seats available for £15 in decent areas of the ground which should be selling out every match. That Suzi doesn't know these are available speaks volumes. If Suzi doesn't know then neither do thousands of others.
Closing the Box Office for one afternoon is madness to me. If they normally only sell ten tickets then where is the inconvenience to staff. One of those tickets may be bought by someone whose enjoys it so much they then buy a season ticket. Not now they won't.
Don't go getting ideas about filling the £15 blocks in the west. I moved to there to get away from a load of cranks in the east and it's nice and empty with virtually no queues for food and drink at h/t.
I wonder how many CAFC fans have fallen out of the habit in the last seven years, and what percentage might be enticed back with a mix of performance, price and promotion. Sure the full on promotion hasn't happened yet but perhaps the best time to do that is second half of the season IF there is something to sell?!
Perhaps they want more time to improve the matchday experience so that the process of serving fans at the games improves.
I was surprised gates are only up 500 on last season but accept these things take time. One would hope that decent results in November followed by a repeat of the commitment to "acquire one or two quality players if in the same position" (6th or 7th at the time) might help edge gates up. Then the club will have come a long, long way in just 12 months since the takeover.
Promoting the games is the part we wait to see but I'm not sure the club has much appetite for using the "free resource available" to promote the club. Unfortunately that approach comes with an overhead and risk. The management is moving at such pace that perhaps they won't wish to slow down to incorporate a more collegiate approach?
Interesting contributions from those ITK and those not ITK.
One thing has always been consistent at Charlton and that is that the marketing has never been the greatest, even when we were in the prem, it could have been better. Not just my opinion but friends who go to games infrequently had no idea about our ticket prices or that we have been taken over or that we have a new manager or that we have new catering or A block. Why? because were not on match of the day or Talksport etc.
So as a club we have to push the marketing, do we advertise on buses, do we advertise on radio, do we partnership/advertise at the O2, do we advertise in London underground, possibly tying in with Greenwich as a tourist attraction? Say, go to visit the Cutty Sark and get discounted tickets? Or use the rail system and get discounted tickets at the Valley, offer first time visitors free grub, there are a ton of ways to generate new support (revenue), I dont think the club has the right people in place to make this happen, or possibly budget.
I go to the games and I dont know that some tickets are only £15, so what chance does the floating punter have? Its no good slinging a £200 ad or advertorial in the local rags, people dont really read them much anymore, aggressive marketing is required, yes it costs money, but top marketing also brings good revenue IMHO.
Interesting contributions from those ITK and those not ITK.
One thing has always been consistent at Charlton and that is that the marketing has never been the greatest, even when we were in the prem, it could have been better. Not just my opinion but friends who go to games infrequently had no idea about our ticket prices or that we have been taken over or that we have a new manager or that we have new catering or A block. Why? because were not on match of the day or Talksport etc.
So as a club we have to push the marketing, do we advertise on buses, do we advertise on radio, do we partnership/advertise at the O2, do we advertise in London underground, possibly tying in with Greenwich as a tourist attraction? Say, go to visit the Cutty Sark and get discounted tickets? Or use the rail system and get discounted tickets at the Valley, offer first time visitors free grub, there are a ton of ways to generate new support (revenue), I dont think the club has the right people in place to make this happen, or possibly budget.
I go to the games and I dont know that some tickets are only £15, so what chance does the floating punter have? Its no good slinging a £200 ad or advertorial in the local rags, people dont really read them much anymore, aggressive marketing is required, yes it costs money, but top marketing also brings good revenue IMHO.
All very valid points.
The problem is that when Airman Brown says, as he has, something very similar he gets attacked for being "bitter" etc
So the debate rarely moves beyond that.
I don't think Airman's "beyond parody" remark helped wither but the issue is how to fill empty seats.
At some point the club will have to decide when it markets to exactly those infrequent buyers you mention. The problem is that the longer they leave it the further they drift away. A few wins and a new pitch aren't, as we have seen, enough. Especially if they don't know about them.
There needs to be a constant and coherent message to those lapsed and casual fans. It will take time, it will be a cost and it will not reap instant results but the alternative is waiting for promotion to the premiership. And how long will that take?
There needs to be an easy to use sales line that ST holders can use to get lapsed fans in. £15 seats is one of those but who, where, when, how. You didn't know, suzi didn't know, AFKA didn't know so that's three potential sales reps/customers not in the loop and there will be plenty more. Not your fault. The club needs to set it out on a plate for people.
Unfortunately, any suggestion that marketing could be done better is seen as an attack on Roland. It's not. Marketing is expensive and unpredictable so there are good reasons why we can't do all the things you suggest. The cost would most likely outweigh the benefits but some could work. Some have worked in the past.
So here's an idea.
We have outsourced the catering and the Chief Commercial Officer has left. Recruit a replacement with a background in marketing, fan engagement and increasing income via selling more tickets and no I don't mean Airman The shirt deal is done and the catering deal is done so the role has changed.
Get that new Business Development Manager to re-start Target 20K or whatever you want to call it. Target them to increase gate numbers and gate income. And give them a marketing budget to do it.
Via the programme and website surely people would have seen that we were selling tickets at £15.
However, I am not sure whether a flyer was posted out to everybody on the mailing list, but if not, surely that would be a good idea.
Still think we could do with a club shop back in Bexleyheath. If clubs can have a shop in their respective town on top of at the ground I am sure we can.
Via the programme and website surely people would have seen that we were selling tickets at £15.
However, I am not sure whether a flyer was posted out to everybody on the mailing list, but if not, surely that would be a good idea.
Still think we could do with a club shop back in Bexleyheath. If clubs can have a shop in their respective town on top of at the ground I am sure we can.
who buys a programme who isn't already going to games. Even then not everyone at a game buys or reads one.
How many people who aren't hard core fans read the website on a regular basis and if so do they dig down to the ticketing page?
I think people are in danger of using the two terms advertising / promotion and marketing in the same way when they are in fact very different. If you google marketing 6P you will see that marketing consists Price, Promotion, Product etc. And that many of these have definitely improved since January. On another thread there is a discussion about cleansing the marketing database. I recall hearing somewhere that there were 60-80,000 records on there. If half of them are good and can be updated then that's 40,000 fans who can be reached electronically with modern promotional materials like action clips and interviews, together with promotional offers. Our performances on the pitch will hopefully continue starting tomorrow but there is probably a whole range of back office process work to enhance. I would agree with the point made higher that recruiting a competent marketing professional on an interim or permanent basis would be a good step forwards - isn't it great that CAFC is in a place now that makes such a role an attractive proposition?
Interesting contributions from those ITK and those not ITK.
One thing has always been consistent at Charlton and that is that the marketing has never been the greatest, even when we were in the prem, it could have been better. Not just my opinion but friends who go to games infrequently had no idea about our ticket prices or that we have been taken over or that we have a new manager or that we have new catering or A block. Why? because were not on match of the day or Talksport etc.
So as a club we have to push the marketing, do we advertise on buses, do we advertise on radio, do we partnership/advertise at the O2, do we advertise in London underground, possibly tying in with Greenwich as a tourist attraction? Say, go to visit the Cutty Sark and get discounted tickets? Or use the rail system and get discounted tickets at the Valley, offer first time visitors free grub, there are a ton of ways to generate new support (revenue), I dont think the club has the right people in place to make this happen, or possibly budget.
I go to the games and I dont know that some tickets are only £15, so what chance does the floating punter have? Its no good slinging a £200 ad or advertorial in the local rags, people dont really read them much anymore, aggressive marketing is required, yes it costs money, but top marketing also brings good revenue IMHO.
All very valid points.
The problem is that when Airman Brown says, as he has, something very similar he gets attacked for being "bitter" etc
So the debate rarely moves beyond that.
I don't think Airman's "beyond parody" remark helped wither but the issue is how to fill empty seats.
At some point the club will have to decide when it markets to exactly those infrequent buyers you mention. The problem is that the longer they leave it the further they drift away. A few wins and a new pitch aren't, as we have seen, enough. Especially if they don't know about them.
There needs to be a constant and coherent message to those lapsed and casual fans. It will take time, it will be a cost and it will not reap instant results but the alternative is waiting for promotion to the premiership. And how long will that take?
There needs to be an easy to use sales line that ST holders can use to get lapsed fans in. £15 seats is one of those but who, where, when, how. You didn't know, suzi didn't know, AFKA didn't know so that's three potential sales reps/customers not in the loop and there will be plenty more. Not your fault. The club needs to set it out on a plate for people.
Unfortunately, any suggestion that marketing could be done better is seen as an attack on Roland. It's not. Marketing is expensive and unpredictable so there are good reasons why we can't do all the things you suggest. The cost would most likely outweigh the benefits but some could work. Some have worked in the past.
So here's an idea.
We have outsourced the catering and the Chief Commercial Officer has left. Recruit a replacement with a background in marketing, fan engagement and increasing income via selling more tickets and no I don't mean Airman The shirt deal is done and the catering deal is done so the role has changed.
Get that new Business Development Manager to re-start Target 20K or whatever you want to call it. Target them to increase gate numbers and gate income. And give them a marketing budget to do it.
Think you'll find that the Club has beaten you to this suggestion, Henry as I believe I posted after the last FF meeting.
Lisa Squires , previously employed part time in the VG office , has been appointed in a full time capacity as Club Development Manager with the brief of increasing attendances at The Valley.
As stated at the time, she welcomes any/all suggestions as to how this might be achieved and I'd be surprised if Airman hasn't slipped her a few...
Maybe a marketing professional and an advertising professional considering they're "very different" things?
Advertising is a tool of marketing!!!! Unfortunately it is the first thing that is jumped on as the panacea of all ills. The club need a marketing strategy that covers existing fans, prospects and lapsed and a communications strategy to go with it.
Of course the club has done a lot of the things discussed above, including London-wide radio advertising, and bus advertising, going back to 2001, but the most effective mechanism was working through supporters themselves. That's what moved the average gate between 1994 and 1997. Sure, we were all amateurs, but so what? Collectively we knew the club and we knew the market for it. It was a crusade.
An obvious example would be all the work that Sue Townsend (and no doubt others) have done in Maidstone over the last 20 years. She is just one example of what I mean by free resource and I can tell you that she has been worth tens of thousands to Charlton over the years in the work she has done entirely voluntarily.
The local press no longer has the reach it had even five years ago, so how to get to the wider public is a key question. Fortunately there is a lot of data about people who are interested in watching Charlton and can be contacted direct.
There is no doubt that to do so effectively involves spending money and this is the main reason it doesn't happen. Nevertheless the comms team made good use of Twitter with Football for a Fiver and there are more innovative approaches that can be deployed.
Relating to Kap's point, you also have to balance priorities if you have limited resource. For example, is it more important to produce video content for core supporters or to spend that time trying to reach new ones?
However, It would be a category one error, in my opinion, to try to target the wider London market because it is prohibitively expensive, practically and culturally disinclined to travel to Charlton and awash with competition.
With radio, for example, or the Standard you would be spending huge amounts on contacting people in west and north London who will never be interested.
There are people scattered all over London and the South East (and beyond) who support Charlton, but outside London SE and Bexley/ /Bromley the best performing London postal area is SW at under 2 per cent of support. You are not going to change that without transforming the road and rail network as well as the club.
Maybe a marketing professional and an advertising professional considering they're "very different" things?
Advertising is a tool of marketing!!!! Unfortunately it is the first thing that is jumped on as the panacea of all ills. The club need a marketing strategy that covers existing fans, prospects and lapsed and a communications strategy to go with it.
Lapsed st holder (family reasons), went along to the Wolves game handed over £30 for my Lower West ticket, got ticket and £15 back, was very pleased and surprised - poor marketing
Have the ticket staff been so run down to the bare bones that so staff can take annual leave, take in sickness and they can work out who's working certain shift patterns, that the club had to close the ticket office on a Thursday afternoon.
No inside knowledge, just playing devil's advocate.
Lapsed st holder (family reasons), went along to the Wolves game handed over £30 for my Lower West ticket, got ticket and £15 back, was very pleased and surprised - poor marketing
Funny, when I go to the theatre, or to the Greyhounds or speedway or Moto GP or BSB or basketball I go online and check ticket prices. Clearly I'm weird.
Good to see the article in the programme about group bookings from Development Manager Lisa Squires.
Indeed, Henry.
However, I had a surprising visit pre kick off from Lisa's Mum ....
Her words were " If you're going to post something on Charlton Life, make sure you get your facts right !"
As I gathered my wits ( not even a "hello, Jean") she continued to say that, for my information, Lisa had previously worked P/T in the VG office but also P/T in Club Development and she added " worked more than her contracted hours !"
Still somewhat taken aback and struggling for a suitable (polite of course) response, she jabbed a finger at the page in the VR that you spoke about, telling me it was there in black & white ....at which point she flounced off back to her seat.
A gobsmacked Fanny is a rare & wonderful sight but that was the state this lady reduced me to.
First off, and in hindsight, I should have pointed out that I had been illustrating, advertising to all even, her daughter's role in advance of any pronouncement by the Club & had encouraged fans to contact her with any suggestions to assist her in her new role. In fact I note that today's VR lists Lisa as " Group Bookings" as you stated with NO mention of her being Club Development Manager (F/T of course) as the lady herself described herself at the last FF meeting.
Secondly, I do take issue with being approached by someone who is clearly not known to me on this site but who has either read or been told of my non de plume. To this lady, who used to travel to away games many season ago with Betty Hutchins, like myself, I should be just Jean and hence not approached as FF ...hope this makes sense !
And finally, it strikes me as rather pathetic that an adult member of staff should require her mother to fight her battles for her, if indeed this issue is perceived as one to be fought. Very strange indeed and I must admit to being not only puzzled but also rather angry. I cannot believe that anyone could take my previous post on the subject of putting bums on seats as anything but positive - for both the Club ( in making this appointment) and for Lisa ( informing others of the brief she now has) Seems as though you just can't help some people....
So, fellow Lifers, do I forget about this & put it down to a misunderstanding or should I make contact with Lisa directly to ask why the finger has been pointed in my direction ?
There are some very strange types in the world, and many of us are on Charlton Life. Forget about it.
PS hope you dont get further grief for your posting above! This one could run and run!
As long as what you say and write is done with a good heart, everything else is someone elses problem1
Thanks, A-R-T-H-U-R.
I hope it's clear that whatever I say or do is always with the best intentions and in the interests of the Club we support & love.
If & when that doesn't become apparent, that'll be the time for me to take my leave.
You just keep on going with your good heart. It really doesn't matter if others cant see that. It really is their problem, not yours. This lady who accosted you has issues, for sure. Not your problem or your fault.
Comments
Closing the Box Office for one afternoon is madness to me. If they normally only sell ten tickets then where is the inconvenience to staff. One of those tickets may be bought by someone whose enjoys it so much they then buy a season ticket. Not now they won't.
Are they in just 1 or 2 blocks, or are they relatively spread out?
I moved to there to get away from a load of cranks in the east and it's nice and empty with virtually no queues for food and drink at h/t.
Sure the full on promotion hasn't happened yet but perhaps the best time to do that is second half of the season IF there is something to sell?!
Perhaps they want more time to improve the matchday experience so that the process of serving fans at the games improves.
I was surprised gates are only up 500 on last season but accept these things take time. One would hope that decent results in November followed by a repeat of the commitment to "acquire one or two quality players if in the same position" (6th or 7th at the time) might help edge gates up.
Then the club will have come a long, long way in just 12 months since the takeover.
Promoting the games is the part we wait to see but I'm not sure the club has much appetite for using the "free resource available" to promote the club. Unfortunately that approach comes with an overhead and risk. The management is moving at such pace that perhaps they won't wish to slow down to incorporate a more collegiate approach?
One thing has always been consistent at Charlton and that is that the marketing has never been the greatest, even when we were in the prem, it could have been better. Not just my opinion but friends who go to games infrequently had no idea about our ticket prices or that we have been taken over or that we have a new manager or that we have new catering or A block. Why? because were not on match of the day or Talksport etc.
So as a club we have to push the marketing, do we advertise on buses, do we advertise on radio, do we partnership/advertise at the O2, do we advertise in London underground, possibly tying in with Greenwich as a tourist attraction? Say, go to visit the Cutty Sark and get discounted tickets? Or use the rail system and get discounted tickets at the Valley, offer first time visitors free grub, there are a ton of ways to generate new support (revenue), I dont think the club has the right people in place to make this happen, or possibly budget.
I go to the games and I dont know that some tickets are only £15, so what chance does the floating punter have?
Its no good slinging a £200 ad or advertorial in the local rags, people dont really read them much anymore, aggressive marketing is required, yes it costs money, but top marketing also brings good revenue IMHO.
The problem is that when Airman Brown says, as he has, something very similar he gets attacked for being "bitter" etc
So the debate rarely moves beyond that.
I don't think Airman's "beyond parody" remark helped wither but the issue is how to fill empty seats.
At some point the club will have to decide when it markets to exactly those infrequent buyers you mention. The problem is that the longer they leave it the further they drift away. A few wins and a new pitch aren't, as we have seen, enough. Especially if they don't know about them.
There needs to be a constant and coherent message to those lapsed and casual fans. It will take time, it will be a cost and it will not reap instant results but the alternative is waiting for promotion to the premiership. And how long will that take?
There needs to be an easy to use sales line that ST holders can use to get lapsed fans in. £15 seats is one of those but who, where, when, how. You didn't know, suzi didn't know, AFKA didn't know so that's three potential sales reps/customers not in the loop and there will be plenty more. Not your fault. The club needs to set it out on a plate for people.
Unfortunately, any suggestion that marketing could be done better is seen as an attack on Roland. It's not. Marketing is expensive and unpredictable so there are good reasons why we can't do all the things you suggest. The cost would most likely outweigh the benefits but some could work. Some have worked in the past.
So here's an idea.
We have outsourced the catering and the Chief Commercial Officer has left. Recruit a replacement with a background in marketing, fan engagement and increasing income via selling more tickets and no I don't mean Airman The shirt deal is done and the catering deal is done so the role has changed.
Get that new Business Development Manager to re-start Target 20K or whatever you want to call it. Target them to increase gate numbers and gate income. And give them a marketing budget to do it.
However, I am not sure whether a flyer was posted out to everybody on the mailing list, but if not, surely that would be a good idea.
Still think we could do with a club shop back in Bexleyheath. If clubs can have a shop in their respective town on top of at the ground I am sure we can.
How many people who aren't hard core fans read the website on a regular basis and if so do they dig down to the ticketing page?
If you google marketing 6P you will see that marketing consists Price, Promotion, Product etc. And that many of these have definitely improved since January.
On another thread there is a discussion about cleansing the marketing database. I recall hearing somewhere that there were 60-80,000 records on there. If half of them are good and can be updated then that's 40,000 fans who can be reached electronically with modern promotional materials like action clips and interviews, together with promotional offers.
Our performances on the pitch will hopefully continue starting tomorrow but there is probably a whole range of back office process work to enhance.
I would agree with the point made higher that recruiting a competent marketing professional on an interim or permanent basis would be a good step forwards - isn't it great that CAFC is in a place now that makes such a role an attractive proposition?
Lisa Squires , previously employed part time in the VG office , has been appointed in a full time capacity as Club Development Manager with the brief of increasing attendances at The Valley.
As stated at the time, she welcomes any/all suggestions as to how this might be achieved and I'd be surprised if Airman hasn't slipped her a few...
...ideas of course.
An obvious example would be all the work that Sue Townsend (and no doubt others) have done in Maidstone over the last 20 years. She is just one example of what I mean by free resource and I can tell you that she has been worth tens of thousands to Charlton over the years in the work she has done entirely voluntarily.
The local press no longer has the reach it had even five years ago, so how to get to the wider public is a key question. Fortunately there is a lot of data about people who are interested in watching Charlton and can be contacted direct.
There is no doubt that to do so effectively involves spending money and this is the main reason it doesn't happen. Nevertheless the comms team made good use of Twitter with Football for a Fiver and there are more innovative approaches that can be deployed.
Relating to Kap's point, you also have to balance priorities if you have limited resource. For example, is it more important to produce video content for core supporters or to spend that time trying to reach new ones?
However, It would be a category one error, in my opinion, to try to target the wider London market because it is prohibitively expensive, practically and culturally disinclined to travel to Charlton and awash with competition.
With radio, for example, or the Standard you would be spending huge amounts on contacting people in west and north London who will never be interested.
There are people scattered all over London and the South East (and beyond) who support Charlton, but outside London SE and Bexley/ /Bromley the best performing London postal area is SW at under 2 per cent of support. You are not going to change that without transforming the road and rail network as well as the club.
Just a thought and this could free up the other working Ticket staff.
No inside knowledge, just playing devil's advocate.
Clearly I'm weird.
However, I had a surprising visit pre kick off from Lisa's Mum ....
Her words were " If you're going to post something on Charlton Life, make sure you get your facts right !"
As I gathered my wits ( not even a "hello, Jean") she continued to say that, for my information, Lisa had previously worked P/T in the VG office but also P/T in Club Development and she added " worked more than her contracted hours !"
Still somewhat taken aback and struggling for a suitable (polite of course) response, she jabbed a finger at the page in the VR that you spoke about, telling me it was there in black & white ....at which point she flounced off back to her seat.
A gobsmacked Fanny is a rare & wonderful sight but that was the state this lady reduced me to.
First off, and in hindsight, I should have pointed out that I had been illustrating, advertising to all even, her daughter's role in advance of any pronouncement by the Club & had encouraged fans to contact her with any suggestions to assist her in her new role. In fact I note that today's VR lists Lisa as " Group Bookings" as you stated with NO mention of her being Club Development Manager (F/T of course) as the lady herself described herself at the last FF meeting.
Secondly, I do take issue with being approached by someone who is clearly not known to me on this site but who has either read or been told of my non de plume. To this lady, who used to travel to away games many season ago with Betty Hutchins, like myself, I should be just Jean and hence not approached as FF ...hope this makes sense !
And finally, it strikes me as rather pathetic that an adult member of staff should require her mother to fight her battles for her, if indeed this issue is perceived as one to be fought. Very strange indeed and I must admit to being not only puzzled but also rather angry. I cannot believe that anyone could take my previous post on the subject of putting bums on seats as anything but positive - for both the Club ( in making this appointment) and for Lisa ( informing others of the brief she now has) Seems as though you just can't help some people....
So, fellow Lifers, do I forget about this & put it down to a misunderstanding or should I make contact with Lisa directly to ask why the finger has been pointed in my direction ?
Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered of Dartford.
Forget about it.
PS hope you dont get further grief for your posting above!
This one could run and run!
As long as what you say and write is done with a good heart, everything else is someone elses problem1
I hope it's clear that whatever I say or do is always with the best intentions and in the interests of the Club we support & love.
If & when that doesn't become apparent, that'll be the time for me to take my leave.