My concern isn't that one or two tickets might not be sold here and there, but what happens if someone makes a trip to The Valley on spec, finds it's closed, thinks "joke club" and never returns.
What if they turned up at 526 on a Monday evening ?
Personally don't see the problem. Thursday afternoon is leaving it a bit late if you want your ticket posted out for the following Saturday game. Don't think I've ever contacted the box office on a Thursday.
Different matter if we were selling out every game.
My concern isn't that one or two tickets might not be sold here and there, but what happens if someone makes a trip to The Valley on spec, finds it's closed, thinks "joke club" and never returns.
What if they turned up at 526 on a Monday evening ?
Then they'd be 26 minutes late, and they'd be outside of standard office hours. It's a bit different to having different hours on one day to the rest of the week. That means that customers are now expected to know something extra before they buy a ticket (at least on a Thursday). We're making life just a little bit more difficult for the casual ticket buyer. That's not the way that the business world is travelling and it is not what I'd expect from a club that wanted extend its supporter base. I've no idea what the "behind the scenes" reasons are for these changes, but on face value it seems odd.
Why not take calls and sell tickets in the club shop on Thursday afternoons. Can't be hard to put a terminal in there.
The shop is no longer run by the club (outsourced).
I'm not sure that's a good reason. I live in Manchester and various third-party tourist outlets can sell tickets to MUFC and MCFC matches.
But they will want a % thus reducing CAFC ticket income. The way I read it nobody is losing their jobs, so empolying the shop to sell tickets would be an extra cost. You used to be able to buy a matchday programme in the shop but that is now not possible.
Been able to buy programmes since April last season, both back issue homes and the matchday prog.
a lot different AFKA. Some people only need a twig to beat him with it.
The beyond parody comment did not help his cause. It's a strange decision but not a world shattering one.
Equally I am not sure how much praise the club got for removing the premium rate charge on the phones.
Quite a lot, from me, in the last VOTV, as it happens. Sorry you missed it!
I don't care what conclusions people come to regarding my motives - but as it happens David Colgan is a good mate of mine, so barking up the wrong tree there. Ben Kensell resigned several weeks ago (to join Norwich) so I doubt if he's driving this decision either.
Of course, most supporters would cope even if the ticket office was closed permanently all week. You could make an administrative case for that, forcing people to buy in person on Saturday mornings from 10am or online at any time and collecting on the day.
The main inefficiency in staffing the ticket office is people sitting around doing nothing during the week because it's impossible to match staffing exactly to peaks and troughs in demand, not just over days of the week but also according to fixtures. That's not the staff's fault.
It might make administrative sense to shut, but it would not make commercial sense, because people would get pissed off that they couldn't get a response from the club at a time that was reasonable in terms of their experience with other clubs and other industries.
That's my view, based on having overseen the management of the ticket office and therefore having some insight into it. But it's just an opinion.
You have worked at the club and know better than a lot of bloody people.
The people that doubt you I would love to know if they KNOW more than you..........just an opinion.
My concern isn't that one or two tickets might not be sold here and there, but what happens if someone makes a trip to The Valley on spec, finds it's closed, thinks "joke club" and never returns.
Anyway, in a bid to become more efficient and effective at my job I've decided that I won't do my job on Thursday afternoon's anymore. I hope my boss is as understanding the Charlton dynasty.
That's ok as long as you don't expect to be paid for not working on Thursday afternoon.
a lot different AFKA. Some people only need a twig to beat him with it.
The beyond parody comment did not help his cause. It's a strange decision but not a world shattering one.
Equally I am not sure how much praise the club got for removing the premium rate charge on the phones.
Quite a lot, from me, in the last VOTV, as it happens. Sorry you missed it!
I don't care what conclusions people come to regarding my motives - but as it happens David Colgan is a good mate of mine, so barking up the wrong tree there. Ben Kensell resigned several weeks ago (to join Norwich) so I doubt if he's driving this decision either.
Of course, most supporters would cope even if the ticket office was closed permanently all week. You could make an administrative case for that, forcing people to buy in person on Saturday mornings from 10am or online at any time and collecting on the day.
The main inefficiency in staffing the ticket office is people sitting around doing nothing during the week because it's impossible to match staffing exactly to peaks and troughs in demand, not just over days of the week but also according to fixtures. That's not the staff's fault.
It might make administrative sense to shut, but it would not make commercial sense, because people would get pissed off that they couldn't get a response from the club at a time that was reasonable in terms of their experience with other clubs and other industries.
That's my view, based on having overseen the management of the ticket office and therefore having some insight into it. But it's just an opinion.
You have worked at the club and know better than a lot of bloody people.
The people that doubt you I would love to know if they KNOW more than you..........just an opinion.
You could also argue that the people in the club, including David Coglan, know more about the current commercial realities of the club and the implications of their activities than AB and therefore are better placed to make decisions.
Whilst I think "Beyond Parody" might be a slightly OTT reaction to the news, the point is a valid one. As part of a large-ish, well known organisation, where the main revenue stream is from ticket sales, to close the one department responsible for those sales on a perfectly normal working day, during perfectly normal working hours does seem a strange decision. We sometimes forget that people outside our Charlton bubble who may just casually want to pop along for a game, wouldn't have the info to hand that it was shut, and neither would you expect them to think there was any reason it should be on a Thursday afternoon. If they turned up at 9.30 PM on a Monday you have every right to ask why they didn't check on the internet first, but you cannot say that about 4PM on a Thursday.
a lot different AFKA. Some people only need a twig to beat him with it.
The beyond parody comment did not help his cause. It's a strange decision but not a world shattering one.
Equally I am not sure how much praise the club got for removing the premium rate charge on the phones.
Quite a lot, from me, in the last VOTV, as it happens. Sorry you missed it!
I don't care what conclusions people come to regarding my motives - but as it happens David Colgan is a good mate of mine, so barking up the wrong tree there. Ben Kensell resigned several weeks ago (to join Norwich) so I doubt if he's driving this decision either.
Of course, most supporters would cope even if the ticket office was closed permanently all week. You could make an administrative case for that, forcing people to buy in person on Saturday mornings from 10am or online at any time and collecting on the day.
The main inefficiency in staffing the ticket office is people sitting around doing nothing during the week because it's impossible to match staffing exactly to peaks and troughs in demand, not just over days of the week but also according to fixtures. That's not the staff's fault.
It might make administrative sense to shut, but it would not make commercial sense, because people would get pissed off that they couldn't get a response from the club at a time that was reasonable in terms of their experience with other clubs and other industries.
That's my view, based on having overseen the management of the ticket office and therefore having some insight into it. But it's just an opinion.
You have worked at the club and know better than a lot of bloody people.
The people that doubt you I would love to know if they KNOW more than you..........just an opinion.
a lot different AFKA. Some people only need a twig to beat him with it.
The beyond parody comment did not help his cause. It's a strange decision but not a world shattering one.
Equally I am not sure how much praise the club got for removing the premium rate charge on the phones.
Quite a lot, from me, in the last VOTV, as it happens. Sorry you missed it!
I don't care what conclusions people come to regarding my motives - but as it happens David Colgan is a good mate of mine, so barking up the wrong tree there. Ben Kensell resigned several weeks ago (to join Norwich) so I doubt if he's driving this decision either.
Of course, most supporters would cope even if the ticket office was closed permanently all week. You could make an administrative case for that, forcing people to buy in person on Saturday mornings from 10am or online at any time and collecting on the day.
The main inefficiency in staffing the ticket office is people sitting around doing nothing during the week because it's impossible to match staffing exactly to peaks and troughs in demand, not just over days of the week but also according to fixtures. That's not the staff's fault.
It might make administrative sense to shut, but it would not make commercial sense, because people would get pissed off that they couldn't get a response from the club at a time that was reasonable in terms of their experience with other clubs and other industries.
That's my view, based on having overseen the management of the ticket office and therefore having some insight into it. But it's just an opinion.
You have worked at the club and know better than a lot of bloody people.
The people that doubt you I would love to know if they KNOW more than you..........just an opinion.
You could also argue that the people in the club, including David Coglan, know more about the current commercial realities of the club and the implications of their activities than AB and therefore are better placed to make decisions.
You could indeed, certainly of DC, but ultimately this decision will have been made because the staff are struggling to cope with the administration surrounding matchdays.
It would never have got past previous chief executives and if it had done so it would have been vetoed by the board, for certain - even the same board that employed an MD a CEO and deputy CEO in League One 2009/10, which I agree was farcical.
Any business has to strike a balance between cutting costs and seeking to increase revenue. The former is always more reliable, but at some point it becomes counter-productive.
Is there another club in the Championship that shuts its ticket office during the week? If not, why are the circumstances at Charlton unique?
I thought the decision was comical rather than outrageous, but there is a bigger issue about commercial judgement, which sits above the staff, and in my view is present in a number of other decisions affecting, for example, Valley Express, Crossbars, season tickets, the fun day and the shirt sponsorship deal.
The owner has done some good things, frequently listed on here, but on a day to day level there are legitimate questions about the quality of some of the decision-making. It is hard to see how shutting the ticket office on a Thursday afternoon is a positive move or consistent with the objective of increasing ticket sales, even if it's trivial of itself.
I wonder what the % split is in ticket sales between internet, phone & in person on non match day sales ?
This! Without this split the discussion is somewhat I'll informed. My guess is that 80% of the attendance is made up of season tickets, comps and away fans. With the home match sales making up perhaps 20% between web, telephone, box office (advance) and sales on the day.
I would suggest that there is a much, much bigger question which is what will it take to grow the home attendances year on year, aside from improvements on the pitch.
I wonder what the % split is in ticket sales between internet, phone & in person on non match day sales ?
This! Without this split the discussion is somewhat I'll informed. My guess is that 80% of the attendance is made up of season tickets, comps and away fans. With the home match sales making up perhaps 20% between web, telephone, box office (advance) and sales on the day.
I would suggest that there is a much, much bigger question which is what will it take to grow the home attendances year on year, aside from improvements on the pitch.
Not much of a guess, since it's well known, but generally the area where you increase revenue first is matchday ticket sales, so that ought to be the primary focus. You start by promoting what is already on offer, e.g. £15 tickets.
Comps - and printing out and re-entering by hand internet bookings - are a significant part of the admin in question. Another is printing out blocks of tickets for cash sale on matchdays - because of the lack of IT - and contingencies like computer failure.
The workload associated with online tickets was increased significantly when the "live" online booking system was withdrawn "temporarily" 18 months ago, leaving the pre-2005 system. Nothing to do with the current regime, but not sensible.
The other consequence of the structure of our ticket sale is that a small increase in volume produces a disproportionate increase in workload, for example if the home crowd rises by 2,000 that can equate to a 100 per cent increase in the relevant transactions.
So it appears that shutting the ticket office during normal trading hours is more a symptom than the disease.
It's not saving cost as the staff are still employed and being paid the same. It's not increasing sales but may only lead to a few, if any, lost sales and or frustrated customers.
The underlying issue then seems to be the IT and other infrastructure which, from what AB is saying, is creaking under current conditions and so would be worse if there was need to sell a lot of tickets in a short space of time.
The elongated time periods for away sales discussed on other threads and which Dave Coglan addressed as a method to spread workload as another example of this IMHO
So the question is how and when can the ticketing IT etc be upgraded for both on-line and in person/telephone sales?
If we are successful on the pitch or have an attractive fixture/s then it would help if we had that infrastructure in place BEFOREHAND but as always in business there is the dilemma of whether to invest in costly infrastructure when cash is short and the need is not yet pressing.
Personally I nearly always buy over the phone for away games and have a season ticket. I have always found the customer service excellent.
Thank you for the detail on the operational side. I was more thinking what would it take to increase the crowds and fill some of those empty seats. I'm sure there are a large number of fans only going to the football for a fiver games and I recall you suggesting that the increase in gate makes the exercise revenue neutral...so perhaps more discounted games... Or simply promote the £15 tickets more. One would hope that an improvement in performance and results would attract a bigger gate but perhaps this would take time. Perhaps even a challenge for the play-offs won't put a significant uplift on the gate - hopefully we will find out either way over the next couple of seasons?
Thank you for the detail on the operational side. I was more thinking what would it take to increase the crowds and fill some of those empty seats. I'm sure there are a large number of fans only going to the football for a fiver games and I recall you suggesting that the increase in gate makes the exercise revenue neutral...so perhaps more discounted games... Or simply promote the £15 tickets more. One would hope that an improvement in performance and results would attract a bigger gate but perhaps this would take time. Perhaps even a challenge for the play-offs won't put a significant uplift on the gate - hopefully we will find out either way over the next couple of seasons?
Create an exciting narrative around what you are trying to achieve, be inclusive and open in order to secure the buy-in of supporters and utilise the free resource they represent, and be prepared to invest in promoting what you are selling, whether that's infrastructure, personnel or advertising.
As I said to you earlier in the season, the response to the opening results was always going to be negligible for all sorts of reasons. It's not a reason to retrench.
As a lapsed season ticket holder, I didn't know we did tickets for £15.... I haven't been to The Valley this season......
well you should know because if marketed properly these tickets should be selling out every home game. that you are not aware of this says it all really.
... I haven't been to The Valley this season......
Was this an early protest at the whole early Thursday closing thing? :-)
haha. perhaps!
I obviously could go and 'find' these tickets online, but am out of the CAFC habit and after the summer, I don't plan my weekends around charlton, although I do read the match thread or stream the match if I'm in or tune in on the radio if in the car etc etc, it only consumes an hour and a half of my saturday and not the whole day, so I need something to turn my head and make me think 'that's a bargain, maybe we should plan to go' the club haven't done anything to get me back into it.
My first football match this season is Benfica tomorrow night. maybe the live football tomorrow will make me want to go again and we'll get tickets to go in the next few weeks.
Yes I struggled to tap the screen twice to discover ticket prices for Saturdays game.
Do you not think there is a group of potential supporters who never get that far because their assumption is that football is unaffordable? At a different level I would say that's the point of Football for a Fiver, which requires huge promotion to get to a big enough audience to fill the stadium. It's not good enough to say that it's the public's responsibility to find out. No other business works that way.
The big confusion in this whole discussion is between what committed supporters will do and how you need to operate to enlarge the support.
After we started the season so well, the club should have sent a letter to all lapsed season-ticket holders from Duchatelet or Peeters or Meire setting out a credible plan for the future and making them an offer to come back now, as season ticket holders, and the same time flagging the £15 price. The response wouldn't have been spectacular, but it would have covered the cost and set the tone.
What it actually did was take season tickets off sale.
It now has a second opportunity with half seasons, which I hope it will take, but I fear the results have turned because of the thin squad. I hope I'm wrong.
... I haven't been to The Valley this season......
Was this an early protest at the whole early Thursday closing thing? :-)
haha. perhaps!
I obviously could go and 'find' these tickets online, but am out of the CAFC habit and after the summer, I don't plan my weekends around charlton, although I do read the match thread or stream the match if I'm in or tune in on the radio if in the car etc etc, it only consumes an hour and a half of my saturday and not the whole day, so I need something to turn my head and make me think 'that's a bargain, maybe we should plan to go' the club haven't done anything to get me back into it.
My first football match this season is Benfica tomorrow night. maybe the live football tomorrow will make me want to go again and we'll get tickets to go in the next few weeks.
The club have done something to get you back into it - unbeaten at home, new players, reduced season tickets, reduced match day prices, new pitch, decorated the ground, new catering options.
Comments
Different matter if we were selling out every game.
The people that doubt you I would love to know if they KNOW more than you..........just an opinion.
#joke
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/15036/bexleyheath-ticket-outlet
It would never have got past previous chief executives and if it had done so it would have been vetoed by the board, for certain - even the same board that employed an MD a CEO and deputy CEO in League One 2009/10, which I agree was farcical.
Any business has to strike a balance between cutting costs and seeking to increase revenue. The former is always more reliable, but at some point it becomes counter-productive.
Is there another club in the Championship that shuts its ticket office during the week? If not, why are the circumstances at Charlton unique?
I thought the decision was comical rather than outrageous, but there is a bigger issue about commercial judgement, which sits above the staff, and in my view is present in a number of other decisions affecting, for example, Valley Express, Crossbars, season tickets, the fun day and the shirt sponsorship deal.
The owner has done some good things, frequently listed on here, but on a day to day level there are legitimate questions about the quality of some of the decision-making. It is hard to see how shutting the ticket office on a Thursday afternoon is a positive move or consistent with the objective of increasing ticket sales, even if it's trivial of itself.
Without this split the discussion is somewhat I'll informed.
My guess is that 80% of the attendance is made up of season tickets, comps and away fans. With the home match sales making up perhaps 20% between web, telephone, box office (advance) and sales on the day.
I would suggest that there is a much, much bigger question which is what will it take to grow the home attendances year on year, aside from improvements on the pitch.
Comps - and printing out and re-entering by hand internet bookings - are a significant part of the admin in question. Another is printing out blocks of tickets for cash sale on matchdays - because of the lack of IT - and contingencies like computer failure.
The workload associated with online tickets was increased significantly when the "live" online booking system was withdrawn "temporarily" 18 months ago, leaving the pre-2005 system. Nothing to do with the current regime, but not sensible.
The other consequence of the structure of our ticket sale is that a small increase in volume produces a disproportionate increase in workload, for example if the home crowd rises by 2,000 that can equate to a 100 per cent increase in the relevant transactions.
It's not saving cost as the staff are still employed and being paid the same. It's not increasing sales but may only lead to a few, if any, lost sales and or frustrated customers.
The underlying issue then seems to be the IT and other infrastructure which, from what AB is saying, is creaking under current conditions and so would be worse if there was need to sell a lot of tickets in a short space of time.
The elongated time periods for away sales discussed on other threads and which Dave Coglan addressed as a method to spread workload as another example of this IMHO
So the question is how and when can the ticketing IT etc be upgraded for both on-line and in person/telephone sales?
If we are successful on the pitch or have an attractive fixture/s then it would help if we had that infrastructure in place BEFOREHAND but as always in business there is the dilemma of whether to invest in costly infrastructure when cash is short and the need is not yet pressing.
Personally I nearly always buy over the phone for away games and have a season ticket. I have always found the customer service excellent.
I'm sure there are a large number of fans only going to the football for a fiver games and I recall you suggesting that the increase in gate makes the exercise revenue neutral...so perhaps more discounted games... Or simply promote the £15 tickets more.
One would hope that an improvement in performance and results would attract a bigger gate but perhaps this would take time. Perhaps even a challenge for the play-offs won't put a significant uplift on the gate - hopefully we will find out either way over the next couple of seasons?
As I said to you earlier in the season, the response to the opening results was always going to be negligible for all sorts of reasons. It's not a reason to retrench.
:-)
I obviously could go and 'find' these tickets online, but am out of the CAFC habit and after the summer, I don't plan my weekends around charlton, although I do read the match thread or stream the match if I'm in or tune in on the radio if in the car etc etc, it only consumes an hour and a half of my saturday and not the whole day, so I need something to turn my head and make me think 'that's a bargain, maybe we should plan to go' the club haven't done anything to get me back into it.
My first football match this season is Benfica tomorrow night. maybe the live football tomorrow will make me want to go again and we'll get tickets to go in the next few weeks.
Go to the CAFC website - http://www.cafc.co.uk/ - which is working even though it's Thursday afternoon
Click on Tickets - http://www.cafc.co.uk/tickets/
Buy tickets - http://shop.cafc.co.uk/ticketselect.ink
And then select the game you want - http://shop.cafc.co.uk/StandSelect.ink?matchid=65890&team=p
Alternatively pop along to the ticket sales booth or call them at any point during the 40 or so hours a week they are open
The big confusion in this whole discussion is between what committed supporters will do and how you need to operate to enlarge the support.
After we started the season so well, the club should have sent a letter to all lapsed season-ticket holders from Duchatelet or Peeters or Meire setting out a credible plan for the future and making them an offer to come back now, as season ticket holders, and the same time flagging the £15 price. The response wouldn't have been spectacular, but it would have covered the cost and set the tone.
What it actually did was take season tickets off sale.
It now has a second opportunity with half seasons, which I hope it will take, but I fear the results have turned because of the thin squad. I hope I'm wrong.
What more should they have done for you?
a) A Saturday home match
b) A Saturday away match
Just roughly. 20? 50? 100?