These girls obviously enjoy what they do and want to improve by performing in front of a large audience. Good luck to them! What they do and when they do it, would have no negative affect on anybody's match day experience what so ever. The fact people don't want them as they fear what other fans from other clubs will think, is to me laughable. Why do we care what other fans say?! Why don't we support a local group of girls trying to improve in something they enjoy doing.
Ultimately this site is the least sexist and abusive of the responses they would have got in the real world so if they're that offended then it's a good job we're the bad guys tonight and not the whole crowd Saturday week.
I actually find the girl's statement on FB massively offensive to the majority of us on here who didn't resort to comments on the girl's appearances and discussed the more fundamental issues behind our opposition to the idea. Has it occurred to her that our dislike to the idea is nothing to do with the size or looks of her dancers but the concept itself??
I would suggest she is the sexist one in this debate and unfortunately as she's hidden behind FB and not come on here we can't debate that point with her directly.
I actually find the girl's statement on FB massively offensive to the majority of us on here who didn't resort to comments on the girl's appearances and discussed the more fundamental issues behind our opposition to the idea.
There're even much more offensive comments from the girls under that article on FB. It's clear to see that they're hurt, really hurt by some of the posts on here. Sad the whole thing has gone to a state like this. I think it's the first time ever I've seen us, as a football club being hated (and even verbally abused) by non-rivalry people or people outside of football.
I guess if this had happened at any other club the way it did, it would have been the same. We all know very well ourselves that we're anything but the worst fans in the league. But at the same time, we have to admit there were indeed some offensive comments made on here about the girls. So it's totally understandable that they get upset.
All in all, a lesson learned for those who make decisions at the club and hopefully there will be less mismanagement incidents like this and they will know better about the definition of a great match day experience and what most fans want/like to see.
I guess if this had happened at any other club the way it did, it would have been the same.
I'm not so sure Jessie....I think a sizable opposition factor has been purely our illogical `hatred' of all things Palace.
Imagine if Palace didn't have cheerleaders and the idea had been floated....what do you think the reaction would have been? Of course some people would have been against it due to the US style naffness of it. Some would be against it cos they simply think women shouldn't really be involved in football....but a number would have been indifferent to it. I mean whats really so bad about a group of pretty local girls formation dancing on the pitch for 5 minutes at half time....it's not like much happens during that time anyway.
A number of people on here, having had time to think about it are now clinging to the `it's sexist' line but I think thats a bit of a red herring....I don't see them complaining about the `Would Ya?' threads we have in here for example.
I also think we've missed a trick here. We could have opened up another war front against Palace....the Charlton Cheerleaders vs Palace Cheerleaders cos believe me, those girls would want to beat each other :P
My main concern is that we may have damaged the clubs image somewhat. It doesn't fit in with the family club persona we're trying to project. We could have politely said `thanks but no thanks ladies' but instead we've said `fuck off, you're not wanted here' and thats disappointing.
I don't believe the majority of posts said this. We were basically rejecting the concept of cheerleading being imposed upon us. There was no need for insults against the girls personally, but some people can always misjudge the situation, and perhaps attempts at wit can be misinterpreted.
How could we have said "thanks but no thanks" when there had been no consultation or involvement?. Instead it appeared that something unpopular (or sexist, or "palacey" or just plain naff) was being imposed upon us, and this lead to many of the reactions, some of which inevitably have been over the top.
I think one of the things that has been damaged is the image that our board makes decisions in conjunction with the fans. Instead incorrectly misjudging the reaction and mood of the supporters. I don't believe this was Machiavellian, however, just that we were looking for a tie up with our new sponsor, who happened to have some cheerleaders available.
Ultimately this site is the least sexist and abusive of the responses they would have got in the real world so if they're that offended then it's a good job we're the bad guys tonight and not the whole crowd Saturday week.
I actually find the girl's statement on FB massively offensive to the majority of us on here who didn't resort to comments on the girl's appearances and discussed the more fundamental issues behind our opposition to the idea. Has it occurred to her that our dislike to the idea is nothing to do with the size or looks of her dancers but the concept itself??
I would suggest she is the sexist one in this debate and unfortunately as she's hidden behind FB and not come on here we can't debate that point with her directly.
Where did she ever mention gender? She referred to the fans/supporters, don't be so ignorant
Outside of this forum and the newspaper article, a large percentage of our support and the football world won't even know this has happened. I can't see our 'image' being damaged at all.
If people don't like Charlton or won't come to the Valley because someone said something nasty(which the rest said wasn't acceptable) instead of looking at the incredible amount of work the clubs done in the community, then do we really care about them anyway???
Ultimately this site is the least sexist and abusive of the responses they would have got in the real world so if they're that offended then it's a good job we're the bad guys tonight and not the whole crowd Saturday week.
I actually find the girl's statement on FB massively offensive to the majority of us on here who didn't resort to comments on the girl's appearances and discussed the more fundamental issues behind our opposition to the idea. Has it occurred to her that our dislike to the idea is nothing to do with the size or looks of her dancers but the concept itself??
I would suggest she is the sexist one in this debate and unfortunately as she's hidden behind FB and not come on here we can't debate that point with her directly.
Where did she ever mention gender? She referred to the fans/supporters, don't be so ignorant
Mikey its clear you know the girls after joining the forum yesterday. Perhaps you and the girls could 're-read the thread and ignoring the personal comments, actually look at the real reasons we don't need cheerleaders inside the ground during games. There have even been suggestions about promoting the squad outside the ground or the fact people wouldn't object to a few performances at half time on the pitch per season.
Purposely stayed away from this thread as I could see where it was going. I belive some of our fans haven't got mirrors in there homes., although the majority did I think mean no to cheer leading full stop. Personally would not bother me to have cheerleaders.
I guess if this had happened at any other club the way it did, it would have been the same.
I'm not so sure Jessie....I think a sizable opposition factor has been purely our illogical `hatred' of all things Palace.
Imagine if Palace didn't have cheerleaders and the idea had been floated....what do you think the reaction would have been? Of course some people would have been against it due to the US style naffness of it. Some would be against it cos they simply think women shouldn't really be involved in football....but a number would have been indifferent to it. I mean whats really so bad about a group of pretty local girls formation dancing on the pitch for 5 minutes at half time....it's not like much happens during that time anyway.
A number of people on here, having had time to think about it are now clinging to the `it's sexist' line but I think thats a bit of a red herring....I don't see them complaining about the `Would Ya?' threads we have in here for example.
I also think we've missed a trick here. We could have opened up another war front against Palace....the Charlton Cheerleaders vs Palace Cheerleaders cos believe me, those girls would want to beat each other :P
My main concern is that we may have damaged the clubs image somewhat. It doesn't fit in with the family club persona we're trying to project. We could have politely said `thanks but no thanks ladies' but instead we've said `fuck off, you're not wanted here' and thats disappointing.
Hatred of Palace can never, ever be illogical.
Anyway, glad all this nonsense is over, but hey, at least it gave us something to talk about during an international week !
I guess if this had happened at any other club the way it did, it would have been the same.
I'm not so sure Jessie....I think a sizable opposition factor has been purely our illogical `hatred' of all things Palace.
Imagine if Palace didn't have cheerleaders and the idea had been floated....what do you think the reaction would have been? Of course some people would have been against it due to the US style naffness of it. Some would be against it cos they simply think women shouldn't really be involved in football....but a number would have been indifferent to it. I mean whats really so bad about a group of pretty local girls formation dancing on the pitch for 5 minutes at half time....it's not like much happens during that time anyway.
A number of people on here, having had time to think about it are now clinging to the `it's sexist' line but I think thats a bit of a red herring....I don't see them complaining about the `Would Ya?' threads we have in here for example.
I also think we've missed a trick here. We could have opened up another war front against Palace....the Charlton Cheerleaders vs Palace Cheerleaders cos believe me, those girls would want to beat each other :P
My main concern is that we may have damaged the clubs image somewhat. It doesn't fit in with the family club persona we're trying to project. We could have politely said `thanks but no thanks ladies' but instead we've said `fuck off, you're not wanted here' and thats disappointing.
You seem to be confusing what some posters have said with what others have said and have lumped them all together so you can accuse them of contradicting themselves.
You then accused them of "clinging" to the sexist line. I assume you include me in that.
It's not a red herring for me. It was sexist and I said so on here some days ago, not just after the response from the Mermaids leader. I also made the same points in the email I sent to the fans' Forum members about it.
And I think the Would Ya's are sexist too. I rarely look at them now for that reason. Thankfully Admin seem to have clamped down on them too.
For me it's nothing to do with Palace but you seem unable to separate the sexism from the dislike of Palace and rather desperately are trying to link the two while making up motives for others.
You are equally confused when you say that the rejection of the cheerleader idea was bad because it doesn't fit with our family image but the reality is that such sexist and demeaning displays are the bigger threat to our family image IMO
The girls are well aware that you don't want cheerleaders and they have seen the options that have been suggested, however, some of the girls have been highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them! It was meant to be a bit of fun. The negativity should not have been aimed towards them, commenting negatively on a young woman's appearance is the WORST thing a group of people should have done! Especially when they weren't overly keen on the idea in the first place and were encouraged by people at the club. I think the girls had a right to be angry, and that status was a way of showing that! Things like this already make cheerleading look bad as people often don't think it's a sport in its own right due to the nature of the way it's portrayed by clubs like palace - not the way it was going to come across at Charlton.
So are they and you going to ignore the fact people have been called out for personal comments (made by a very small minority of this message board let alone Charlton fans in general) and some have even apologised.
The girls are well aware that you don't want cheerleaders and they have seen the options that have been suggested, however, some of the girls have been highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them! It was meant to be a bit of fun. The negativity should not have been aimed towards them, commenting negatively on a young woman's appearance is the WORST thing a group of people should have done! Especially when they weren't overly keen on the idea in the first place and were encouraged by people at the club. I think the girls had a right to be angry, and that status was a way of showing that! Things like this already make cheerleading look bad as people often don't think it's a sport in its own right due to the nature of the way it's portrayed by clubs like palace - not the way it was going to come across at Charlton.
I agree totally with your first paragraph.
But in your second paragraph you seem to be trying to shift all responsibility for this to the Club. I agree that the Club hasn't managed this at all well. In my view they should have rejected the idea straight away.
But if Cheerleaders want their sport to be taken seriously then they need to manage their publicity and activities better. I haven't seen the facebook page but it seems they are digging a deeper hole for themselves.
I understand and see the reasons for the anger but it seems they are now sinking to the levels of SOME of the posters on this thread.
I don't see why the girls are getting so much stick when it was actually Charlton who approached them with the idea and name, as their university now sponsors the team. From what I understand they were going to be wearing full kits not half dressed, getting kids involved and selling programmes. It was probably supposed to be light-hearted and fun but the tirade of abuse they've received about their looks and weight from an unflattering picture, I'm not surprised they don't want to.
The issue here is one of the Club totally mismanaging a message and allowing something to be presented in a way that totally misrepresents the idea and its implementation... yet AGAIN!
It represents a disconnect with supporters and a whole history of supporter culture. Someone should have raised their hand on this and asked things to be thought through a little better.
With the story provided from the team member above presents and entirely different proposition to the image we all conjured up and objected to: American style, Palace-like pageantry and Mexican Waves. All buzz words sure to have Charlton supporters seeing red! Had it been presented more carefully, in the way it is above, it may have even been lauded.
Any personal abuse directed at the student team has been rightly called out: it's not funny, it's not clever and a few need to hold their hands up.
Let's hope the next ten pages show a little more empathy for the position the Greenwich Uni team have been put in and go a little ways towards showing how "good" this community can actually be.
Agreed and was one of the reasons six weeks ago I contacted the University about working together with them. Despite meeting at the training ground on the very morning of the kit launch and meeting the marketing team of Greenwich Uni, and despite numerous phone calls and emails, to various people, I only managed to speak directly to the head of marketing once, (who was going on holiday) and as of yet has not responded to either the emails or phone calls. I can assure anyone no suggestion of 'match day experience' was even mentioned.
However I did receive a reply from the student union regarding working together. They at least are and were prepared to discuss things and who knows there may be some ways of working together. That was the whole point of suggesting a meeting, or trying to, so that ideas, could be at least discussed. I am for constructive support for the club, but sometimes we do like to score an 'own goal' Getting back to the 'cheerleaders' idea, was never going to work was it?....... and now we have this negative attitude, or at least the supporters have by the cheerleaders?. Brilliant PR it aint?
Unfortunately this was only going to end one way - with the individuals involved being upset and taking the hostility to the concept personally. It is a rerun of what happened with Miss Charlton Athletic many years ago. But it has little to do with the thread per se, it would have panned out this way however it had emerged, IMO.
Funnily enough, my 15-year-old daughter is actively involved in cheerleading, training up to four times a week and taking part in competitions at national level. Her group don't use pom poms and the stunts they perform are highly impressive, if you like that sort of thing. Unsurprisingly I don't really get it, but I do like to see her enthused, enjoying herself and keeping fit so am happy to encourage her.
Despite this, nobody was more opposed to the idea of this group performing at The Valley than her and she is very disparaging about what she sees at away grounds. Apart from the fact that the groups on display are often not very good (and usually don't do anything challenging), she says it gives the false impression that cheerleading is done to impress other people and as a sideshow when they actually do it for themselves.
Earlier in the thread, my one word response was no. I'd like to explain more. 1. I agree entirely with Henry. In the environment of a football match, cheerleaders, certainly if my experiences at Colchester and Palace are anything to go by are an unacceptable and cringe-worthy experience. Worse, sometimes a few of the participants seem to be very young but dressed as if they were much older - like in one of those American child beauty pageants. Remember they are doing their high kicks and twerking for a predominately male audience and one that has a fair number of boozed up individuals. I find that all a little creepy frankly. (In a couple of weeks it will be interesting to see, given recent adverse publicity for the town, whether Rotherham United are persisting with the Millerettes. I think they should be staying well clear of the idea!) 2. It's the name "Cheerleaders". In the main, football grounds in the UK and certainly The Valley, do not have the large perimeter areas that allow American cheerleaders to do their stuff during the match. So, they can only operate when there is otherwise nothing going on, usually at half time. So there will not be any "cheers" to "lead" will there? So, that leaves them as half-time entertainment which takes us back to point one. 3. Mrs cafcfan hates the idea. She thinks it's demeaning to females and would probably decide to bin her season ticket if Charlton were to adopt the concept.
The girls are well aware that you don't want cheerleaders and they have seen the options that have been suggested, however, some of the girls have been highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them! It was meant to be a bit of fun. The negativity should not have been aimed towards them, commenting negatively on a young woman's appearance is the WORST thing a group of people should have done! Especially when they weren't overly keen on the idea in the first place and were encouraged by people at the club. I think the girls had a right to be angry, and that status was a way of showing that! Things like this already make cheerleading look bad as people often don't think it's a sport in its own right due to the nature of the way it's portrayed by clubs like palace - not the way it was going to come across at Charlton.
Its this kind of generalisation that is incorrect. If there was a couple of comments they were called out by others. Most people just found the idea of mixing cheerleading and English football league unpalatable.
And as I said before, this isnt a hive mind. This is a group of hundreds of people from all different backgrounds of all different ages. If you expect everyone to act the same or there to be no 'bad apples' in a group of any size (particularly on a football forum) then you're gonna end up offended for the majority of your life.
It's a shame how all this has gone. I'd like some integration with the university and would be a good way to get more people in the local area involved. A few mates that have studied out of London have been involved in their local football / rugby clubs. Hopefully relations haven't gone too sour.
The reaction by the Ladies involved is completely understandable in my opinion, although the overall point has been missed perhaps. There was no need to make personal comments, these girls aren't celebrities who have put them selves in the limelight to be shot at. Not that the comments were that bad but it this thread was always going to make it out there to be seen.
I don't think that the original idea is at all sexist, if we go down that route than pretty much the whole entertainment industry is sexist. These are young students who enjoy cheerleading and I assume enjoy doing it in front of an audience. Just because someone knocks one out over Rachael Riley, it doesn't make Countdown sexist.
I was unsure on the whole idea, it could be the start of a slippery slope, saying that the half time entertainment is pretty dire at the moment. Let's not forget the real enemy here - goal music.
Had the club asked fans first then the answer would most likely have been a resounding no, but no one's feeling would have been hurt. The way this information was released it was almost as if this was being forced on us, with no thought given to fans feelings whatsoever. In my opinion that is what has caused the response to be as negative as it was.
The girls are well aware that you don't want cheerleaders and they have seen the options that have been suggested, however, some of the girls have been highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them! It was meant to be a bit of fun. The negativity should not have been aimed towards them, commenting negatively on a young woman's appearance is the WORST thing a group of people should have done! Especially when they weren't overly keen on the idea in the first place and were encouraged by people at the club. I think the girls had a right to be angry, and that status was a way of showing that! Things like this already make cheerleading look bad as people often don't think it's a sport in its own right due to the nature of the way it's portrayed by clubs like palace - not the way it was going to come across at Charlton.
Mikey
I appreciate that you have joined this forum to support your friends who you say have been “highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them!” - so it's worth mentioning before saying anything else that some of the most “hurtful comments” on this thread seem to have come from someone who, like you, says he knows the mermaids – who posted: “I know most of these girls personally and whilst they are a great bunch of girls to be around they aren't the best cheerleaders or dancers around and bless them they aren't all beauty paegent queens”.
I don't know whether you attend football matches (at Charlton or anywhere else)? But if you do you surely understand that among a football crowd of many thousands any dance or gymnastic type activity performed by a groups of young women will inevitably attract shouted comments about their appearance or performance from individuals or groups in the crowd – even if it's 'only' lascivious comments of supposed 'approval'. And even if it didn't come from Charlton supporters it would almost certainly come from some 'away' team supporters – who as a general rule will take any opportunity to disparage or ridicule something the 'home' club does.
When I first saw this proposal - as well as not wanting cheerleader type activities at Charlton or any other club – my first thought was for the young women involved and that the club and/or the university had some sort of 'duty of care' not to expose them to the probability of what I described above.
As for where we are now – as my daughter (who comes with me to every game) commented: “I hope it is scrapped and however horrible reading the comments were it's way better than if they had to deal with a stadium shouting them at them”.
Comments
I actually find the girl's statement on FB massively offensive to the majority of us on here who didn't resort to comments on the girl's appearances and discussed the more fundamental issues behind our opposition to the idea. Has it occurred to her that our dislike to the idea is nothing to do with the size or looks of her dancers but the concept itself??
I would suggest she is the sexist one in this debate and unfortunately as she's hidden behind FB and not come on here we can't debate that point with her directly.
I guess if this had happened at any other club the way it did, it would have been the same. We all know very well ourselves that we're anything but the worst fans in the league. But at the same time, we have to admit there were indeed some offensive comments made on here about the girls. So it's totally understandable that they get upset.
All in all, a lesson learned for those who make decisions at the club and hopefully there will be less mismanagement incidents like this and they will know better about the definition of a great match day experience and what most fans want/like to see.
Imagine if Palace didn't have cheerleaders and the idea had been floated....what do you think the reaction would have been? Of course some people would have been against it due to the US style naffness of it. Some would be against it cos they simply think women shouldn't really be involved in football....but a number would have been indifferent to it. I mean whats really so bad about a group of pretty local girls formation dancing on the pitch for 5 minutes at half time....it's not like much happens during that time anyway.
A number of people on here, having had time to think about it are now clinging to the `it's sexist' line but I think thats a bit of a red herring....I don't see them complaining about the `Would Ya?' threads we have in here for example.
I also think we've missed a trick here. We could have opened up another war front against Palace....the Charlton Cheerleaders vs Palace Cheerleaders cos believe me, those girls would want to beat each other :P
My main concern is that we may have damaged the clubs image somewhat. It doesn't fit in with the family club persona we're trying to project. We could have politely said `thanks but no thanks ladies' but instead we've said `fuck off, you're not wanted here' and thats disappointing.
How could we have said "thanks but no thanks" when there had been no consultation or involvement?. Instead it appeared that something unpopular (or sexist, or "palacey" or just plain naff) was being imposed upon us, and this lead to many of the reactions, some of which inevitably have been over the top.
I think one of the things that has been damaged is the image that our board makes decisions in conjunction with the fans. Instead incorrectly misjudging the reaction and mood of the supporters. I don't believe this was Machiavellian, however, just that we were looking for a tie up with our new sponsor, who happened to have some cheerleaders available.
Lessons for all I hope.
But being women I'm sure they'd rather ignore all of the nice comments made about them and focus on the handful of negative ones :-)
If people don't like Charlton or won't come to the Valley because someone said something nasty(which the rest said wasn't acceptable) instead of looking at the incredible amount of work the clubs done in the community, then do we really care about them anyway???
Anyway, glad all this nonsense is over, but hey, at least it gave us something to talk about during an international week !
You seem to be confusing what some posters have said with what others have said and have lumped them all together so you can accuse them of contradicting themselves.
You then accused them of "clinging" to the sexist line. I assume you include me in that.
It's not a red herring for me. It was sexist and I said so on here some days ago, not just after the response from the Mermaids leader. I also made the same points in the email I sent to the fans' Forum members about it.
And I think the Would Ya's are sexist too. I rarely look at them now for that reason. Thankfully Admin seem to have clamped down on them too.
For me it's nothing to do with Palace but you seem unable to separate the sexism from the dislike of Palace and rather desperately are trying to link the two while making up motives for others.
You are equally confused when you say that the rejection of the cheerleader idea was bad because it doesn't fit with our family image but the reality is that such sexist and demeaning displays are the bigger threat to our family image IMO
The negativity should not have been aimed towards them, commenting negatively on a young woman's appearance is the WORST thing a group of people should have done! Especially when they weren't overly keen on the idea in the first place and were encouraged by people at the club. I think the girls had a right to be angry, and that status was a way of showing that! Things like this already make cheerleading look bad as people often don't think it's a sport in its own right due to the nature of the way it's portrayed by clubs like palace - not the way it was going to come across at Charlton.
You crack on.
But in your second paragraph you seem to be trying to shift all responsibility for this to the Club. I agree that the Club hasn't managed this at all well. In my view they should have rejected the idea straight away.
But if Cheerleaders want their sport to be taken seriously then they need to manage their publicity and activities better. I haven't seen the facebook page but it seems they are digging a deeper hole for themselves.
I understand and see the reasons for the anger but it seems they are now sinking to the levels of SOME of the posters on this thread.
Despite meeting at the training ground on the very morning of the kit launch and meeting the marketing team of Greenwich Uni, and despite numerous phone calls and emails, to various people, I only managed to speak directly to the head of marketing once, (who was going on holiday) and as of yet has not responded to either the emails or phone calls. I can assure anyone no suggestion of 'match day experience' was even mentioned.
However I did receive a reply from the student union regarding working together. They at least are and were prepared to discuss things and who knows there may be some ways of working together. That was the whole point of suggesting a meeting, or trying to, so that ideas, could be at least discussed.
I am for constructive support for the club, but sometimes we do like to score an 'own goal'
Getting back to the 'cheerleaders' idea, was never going to work was it?....... and now we have this negative attitude, or at least the supporters have by the cheerleaders?.
Brilliant PR it aint?
Funnily enough, my 15-year-old daughter is actively involved in cheerleading, training up to four times a week and taking part in competitions at national level. Her group don't use pom poms and the stunts they perform are highly impressive, if you like that sort of thing. Unsurprisingly I don't really get it, but I do like to see her enthused, enjoying herself and keeping fit so am happy to encourage her.
Despite this, nobody was more opposed to the idea of this group performing at The Valley than her and she is very disparaging about what she sees at away grounds. Apart from the fact that the groups on display are often not very good (and usually don't do anything challenging), she says it gives the false impression that cheerleading is done to impress other people and as a sideshow when they actually do it for themselves.
I'd like to explain more.
1. I agree entirely with Henry. In the environment of a football match, cheerleaders, certainly if my experiences at Colchester and Palace are anything to go by are an unacceptable and cringe-worthy experience. Worse, sometimes a few of the participants seem to be very young but dressed as if they were much older - like in one of those American child beauty pageants. Remember they are doing their high kicks and twerking for a predominately male audience and one that has a fair number of boozed up individuals. I find that all a little creepy frankly. (In a couple of weeks it will be interesting to see, given recent adverse publicity for the town, whether Rotherham United are persisting with the Millerettes. I think they should be staying well clear of the idea!)
2. It's the name "Cheerleaders". In the main, football grounds in the UK and certainly The Valley, do not have the large perimeter areas that allow American cheerleaders to do their stuff during the match. So, they can only operate when there is otherwise nothing going on, usually at half time. So there will not be any "cheers" to "lead" will there? So, that leaves them as half-time entertainment which takes us back to point one.
3. Mrs cafcfan hates the idea. She thinks it's demeaning to females and would probably decide to bin her season ticket if Charlton were to adopt the concept.
And as I said before, this isnt a hive mind. This is a group of hundreds of people from all different backgrounds of all different ages. If you expect everyone to act the same or there to be no 'bad apples' in a group of any size (particularly on a football forum) then you're gonna end up offended for the majority of your life.
The reaction by the Ladies involved is completely understandable in my opinion, although the overall point has been missed perhaps. There was no need to make personal comments, these girls aren't celebrities who have put them selves in the limelight to be shot at. Not that the comments were that bad but it this thread was always going to make it out there to be seen.
I don't think that the original idea is at all sexist, if we go down that route than pretty much the whole entertainment industry is sexist. These are young students who enjoy cheerleading and I assume enjoy doing it in front of an audience. Just because someone knocks one out over Rachael Riley, it doesn't make Countdown sexist.
I was unsure on the whole idea, it could be the start of a slippery slope, saying that the half time entertainment is pretty dire at the moment. Let's not forget the real enemy here - goal music.
I appreciate that you have joined this forum to support your friends who you say have been “highly offended by the few hurtful comments and the way that people were saying no to the idea... You haven't even met these girls and already slating them!” - so it's worth mentioning before saying anything else that some of the most “hurtful comments” on this thread seem to have come from someone who, like you, says he knows the mermaids – who posted: “I know most of these girls personally and whilst they are a great bunch of girls to be around they aren't the best cheerleaders or dancers around and bless them they aren't all beauty paegent queens”.
I don't know whether you attend football matches (at Charlton or anywhere else)? But if you do you surely understand that among a football crowd of many thousands any dance or gymnastic type activity performed by a groups of young women will inevitably attract shouted comments about their appearance or performance from individuals or groups in the crowd – even if it's 'only' lascivious comments of supposed 'approval'. And even if it didn't come from Charlton supporters it would almost certainly come from some 'away' team supporters – who as a general rule will take any opportunity to disparage or ridicule something the 'home' club does.
When I first saw this proposal - as well as not wanting cheerleader type activities at Charlton or any other club – my first thought was for the young women involved and that the club and/or the university had some sort of 'duty of care' not to expose them to the probability of what I described above.
As for where we are now – as my daughter (who comes with me to every game) commented: “I hope it is scrapped and however horrible reading the comments were it's way better than if they had to deal with a stadium shouting them at them”.
But, more importantly as there is no football this weekend, where the hell am I going to scratch my nuts on Saturday?