Charlton Cherubs?
Comments
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See, I should be on the that Fans' Forum thingy.RedChaser said:
Actually there was an indication of what might happen from this post on the 'Programme Sellers' thread after the Derby game.shirty5 said:Two days ago none of us were any wiser to this until @sammy391 put the article from the local Greenwich paper on here. Maybe someone else would have found it eventually and put it on here but the reaction would have been exactly the same.
What if everyone turned up for the Watford game not knowing about any if this and then saw these young ladies performing. By 6pm next Saturday then once again this thread would be no different.
Whoever approached the cheerleaders should have consulted with the fans forum first of all. Maybe all this nonsense would have been resolved by now.
sam3110 Member
August 20
Part of the link up with UoG, the Greenwich Mermaids (their cheerleading squad) have been asked to help out on matchdays and at events
Which prompted Henners to post
Henry Irving Member
August 20
please don't do it, Charlton.
Please don't put them on the pitch as pre or half time "entertainment". Please.
It's a shame nobody at the club picked up on this at the time.
(that's a joke by the way, John)0 -
Why would the club make a statement about something that still seemed to be at the design stage.LoOkOuT said:
The issue here is one of the Club totally mismanaging a message and allowing something to be presented in a way that totally misrepresents the idea and its implementation... yet AGAIN!Mikey__ said:I don't see why the girls are getting so much stick when it was actually Charlton who approached them with the idea and name, as their university now sponsors the team. From what I understand they were going to be wearing full kits not half dressed, getting kids involved and selling programmes.
It was probably supposed to be light-hearted and fun but the tirade of abuse they've received about their looks and weight from an unflattering picture, I'm not surprised they don't want to.
It represents a disconnect with supporters and a whole history of supporter culture. Someone should have raised their hand on this and asked things to be thought through a little better.
With the story provided from the team member above presents and entirely different proposition to the image we all conjured up and objected to: American style, Palace-like pageantry and Mexican Waves. All buzz words sure to have Charlton supporters seeing red! Had it been presented more carefully, in the way it is above, it may have even been lauded.
Any personal abuse directed at the student team has been rightly called out: it's not funny, it's not clever and a few need to hold their hands up.
Let's hope the next ten pages show a little more empathy for the position the Greenwich Uni team have been put in and go a little ways towards showing how "good" this community can actually be.
It was a local journalist who did wrong.0 -
Maybe understandably (although there's never an excuse for ignorance) she has missed the overall point and concentrated on the few idiots. Unfortunately that's society and I'm sure her and her girls at some point in their lives have been negative or overly positive because of peoples looks. The comments were still wrong and a sign of a juvenile mind but that's always going to happen with larger numbers of people especially when being behind a keyboard effects most peoples thought processes. She also doesn't mention that those comments have been pulled up by others and that the vast majority have gone out of their way to point out it's nothing to do with the girls, it's simply about cheerleading at football.
She's also ignoring the fact that the only information for people was provided by her girls in a newspaper report. Her anger at this situation should be directed against the person who contacted her in the first place. Or probably more likely the manager that told the person to contact them, and who publicly mismanaged things allowing the article (with a cheerleader in a Charlton shirt so what are people going to presume?), To come out without any other information or clarification.
I'd argue that not wanting cheerleading at football also makes us less sexist than those that do. Cheerleading is a skill, a talent and a sport no question. My Niece is a competitive cheerleader. But take it out of a competitive environment and put it in a sports environment for entertainment and it's reduced to a novelty act with a bunch of girls in short skirts and tight tops. Surely that's demeaning themselves? If they believe that most sports fans will be looking at them appreciating their skill and technique then they're deluding themselves. If the idea was just to attend for a bit of publicity selling programmes and the like then fine that's different, but the article with apparent quotes from "her girls" suggest otherwise.
She also clearly knows nothing about Championship football and it's teams.
She has a right to be angry but maybe she needs to think more about where that anger needs to be channelled.
I know that some of my post may be pointing out a mistake that the current regime are making when it comes to dealing with fan issues. I realise that to a few on here anyone that does that or maybe suggests too many people of a certain type have been released are obviously anti RD/racist/have own agendas (delete as appropriate. I apologise if this causes any offence or disharmony for anyone.8 -
Sounds like a resounding victory for the fans.1
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Personally I don't see the big deal.
These girls obviously enjoy what they do and want to improve by performing in front of a large audience. Good luck to them!
What they do and when they do it, would have no negative affect on anybody's match day experience what so ever.
The fact people don't want them as they fear what other fans from other clubs will think, is to me laughable. Why do we care what other fans say?!
Why don't we support a local group of girls trying to improve in something they enjoy doing.6 -
@Lookout I don't know if CL still run friendly football matches. (I am pretty sure there used to be the odd match arranged). But if there are any plans for CL teams to play this season, it might be a good idea - as a sort of olive branch - if the Greenwich Uni Mermaids were asked to participate and perform.
If a group of university students on a facebook declare that Charlton fans are the worst in the Championship, this might be a good, public way to prove otherwise.
This is not meant to be a wind-up.15 -
are you for real ?0
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danhughes99 said:
Personally I don't see the big deal.
These girls obviously enjoy what they do and want to improve by performing in front of a large audience. Good luck to them!
What they do and when they do it, would have no negative affect on anybody's match day experience what so ever.
The fact people don't want them as they fear what other fans from other clubs will think, is to me laughable. Why do we care what other fans say?!
Why don't we support a local group of girls trying to improve in something they enjoy doing.
For me it is nothing to do with what other club's fans think.
I think it is a sexist, demeaning and counter-productive idea
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If you girls are reading this, don't take it personally, I think I can speak for most in here in saying that I have no problem with cheerleading itself. However it has no place whatsoever in football. So if it's something you enjoy to do, then do it.
Also don't take any insults personally, you probably could've put together a squad of supermodels and people would've found flaws.1 -
Good one Chizz, you nearly had me there!1
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care to clarify those points? why do you see it as sexist, demeaning and counter productive?Henry Irving said:danhughes99 said:Personally I don't see the big deal.
These girls obviously enjoy what they do and want to improve by performing in front of a large audience. Good luck to them!
What they do and when they do it, would have no negative affect on anybody's match day experience what so ever.
The fact people don't want them as they fear what other fans from other clubs will think, is to me laughable. Why do we care what other fans say?!
Why don't we support a local group of girls trying to improve in something they enjoy doing.
For me it is nothing to do with what other club's fans think.
I think it is a sexist, demeaning and counter-productive idea0 -
I have explained this already above but
It is sexist because young women are dressed in skimpy clothes (even if they are football kits) for the entertainment of a mostly male crowd. It reinforces the sexist idea that woman are to be judged on their appearance and that there role at football matches is peripheral and as eye candy and/or a bit of fun. That is demeaning.
It is counter-productive as it will no bring in more families, create a better atmosphere or matchday experience. Rather the opposite.
I stress that there is nothing wrong with Cheerleading as a sport and I hope the Mermaids enjoy it. But in this context it is innappropriate. We have already seen the reaction from fans and the reaction from one of the Mermaids.8 -
I was rather hoping for that existentialist dance/drama based on Snowy from Tin Tins angst to the tune of Baker Street, in recognition of our Belgian connections...but all you naysayers have put paid to any chance of that now!0
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its no more sexist or demeaning than men wearing open shirts on strictly come dancing for example. If that's how you view it, maybe you need to consider your outlook on such things.
As I just said, it cant be counter productive as they will not reduce the atmosphere that most fans create (granted they may not add to it, but it will not lessen).
How about they do something around the family stand. They may inspire a young person or two to take up cheerleading/dance/gymnastics, thus helping a young persons exercise levels and perhaps confidence. That for me would be a good thing not a negative.1 -
I think you mean more not less.0
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Dan, but both men and women dance together on Strictly. Although you are still much more likely to see exposed famale flesh than male from the few viewings I've made.
So at best in your view it will have a neutral impact on atmosphere. I and others believe it will have a negative impact.
Great if a young person takes up a sport but as they are already at a sporting event they could take up football.0 -
PervHenry Irving said:Dan, but both men and women dance together on Strictly. Although you are still much more likely to see exposed famale flesh than male from the few viewings I've made.
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Do men and women not cheerlead together then?
I just don't get how it will have a negative impact on YOUR day? Please explain more. I'll still chant, shout, clap, sing and drink as much as I usually do whether there are cheerleaders or not.
Football isn't always for everybody, so what's wrong with introducing children to another minority sport?
We pride ourselves on being a supportive local community club, yet these girls and guys have just been ridiculed before they have even done anything.2 -
It was being pitched as entertainment but it is clear the vast majority of fans (straw poll) don't find it entertaining.
Now, jousting at half time - that would be fun.0 -
Can I be first to take you on PL54? ;-)0
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Not been ridiculed by me so you need to ask for yet another explanation from someone else.danhughes99 said:Do men and women not cheerlead together then?
I just don't get how it will have a negative impact on YOUR day? Please explain more. I'll still chant, shout, clap, sing and drink as much as I usually do whether there are cheerleaders or not.
Football isn't always for everybody, so what's wrong with introducing children to another minority sport?
We pride ourselves on being a supportive local community club, yet these girls and guys have just been ridiculed before they have even done anything.
Sexist and demeaning displays which I believe this would be IN THIS CONTEXT would deminish my enjoyment of the day. Not a lot, not so much to stop me coming or take any shine off events when the game kicks off but it remains IMO and in the context of a football game counter-productive.
But it aint going to happen now, thank Darwin, so I just hope the lesson has been learnt.1 -
Would not make a difference to me whatsoever I usually arrive just after Red Red Robin and at half time I'm usually consuming a lager, if we have em, crack on girls, if not, whatevs.0
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Interesting that this lady chooses to question Charlton fans by asking what research they had done into cheerleading competitions before commenting... but then goes on to use the sweeping generalisation statement that we have the most awful fans in The Championship.
I wonder what research she has done on, say Millwall, Leeds and Cardiff fans before coming up with that.
I assume she knows about the passion which led fans to start their own political party, knows about fans initiatives around Kick it Out and is aware of the money raised on CL for the Upbeats and about the community work/Trust that CAFC have through her research on us as a club before posting such a generalisation?
A very small minority of posts on here were mildly offensive, using the word 'chubby' is hardly the worst crime to commit (I would use it to describe myself) I suggest if she is that easily offended then it is maybe just as good this finished before it started.
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Including mine, I have no excuse, only that CL is like catnip to me. I apologise for the derogatory comments, "fucking hell", "Charlton Gargoyles" and recounting the Spanners story from many years ago.Athletico Charlton said:
A very small minority of posts on here were mildly offensive, using the word 'chubby' is hardly the worst crime to commit (I would use it to describe myself) I suggest if she is that easily offended then it is maybe just as good this finished before it started.
Cheer Leading at football is just a "No" though, nothing will change my opinion on that.0 -
Simply put, most people i know and those on here do no want cheerleaders at our games! We as customers have voiced our views, now let the club decide.
Just think, if you are one of those girls and on your first day at Charlton, you see 20,000 people in the ground. You get ready to come on at half time, then when the ref blows up, you see half of them go into the stands to tje loo or to get a pint. Most of the others pull out the mobile and start txting or read the programme, so basicly no one is watching, let alone care about them, how would that affect them, their confidence, passion for what they do and most of all how they feel about coming back again?0 -
Bloody hell! 20,000? Who are we playing?cafckev said:Simply put, most people i know and those on here do no want cheerleaders at our games! We as customers have voiced our views, now let the club decide.
Just think, if you are one of those girls and on your first day at Charlton, you see 20,000 people in the ground. You get ready to come on at half time, then when the ref blows up, you see half of them go into the stands to tje loo or to get a pint. Most of the others pull out the mobile and start txting or read the programme, so basicly no one is watching, let alone care about them, how would that affect them, their confidence, passion for what they do and most of all how they feel about coming back again?
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Friends and family of the girls :-)0
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Spanners?Chizz said:
Bloody hell! 20,000? Who are we playing?cafckev said:Simply put, most people i know and those on here do no want cheerleaders at our games! We as customers have voiced our views, now let the club decide.
Just think, if you are one of those girls and on your first day at Charlton, you see 20,000 people in the ground. You get ready to come on at half time, then when the ref blows up, you see half of them go into the stands to tje loo or to get a pint. Most of the others pull out the mobile and start txting or read the programme, so basicly no one is watching, let alone care about them, how would that affect them, their confidence, passion for what they do and most of all how they feel about coming back again?
NO!!!!!!0 -
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