If you don't think that there are certain posters who consistantly spread negativity, then like VG said there's no point havin the conversation.
When posters like The Red Robin, Atletico Addick, lookie and airman (off the top of my head) post on certain threads, the chances are it will be one of the following negativity towards RD's changes, a conspiracy theory or a dig about RD in general.
I understand cautious approaches being taken, but some are ridiculous.
So that is four people.
So against that there is you, Greenie, Valley Gary and Yann896
Four all.
In between those 8 (eight) are the thousands of other posters who don't see the world as completely black or completely white. Who can see the good and the bad, the potential and risks.
So not the "constant negativity" that you speak of if it is four people of whom Weegie isn't one. But she gets the abuse. Doesn't seem right to me.
" Weegie is innocent ...OK !"
Not guilty perhaps but she sure ain't no innocent : - )
I don't think it's fair to put yann in the same category as us three.
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
You got to choose your four so why can't I choose mine? : - )
Yann is certainly one of the "everything is great, don't dare be negative" group is he not?
Glad though that you accept that "constant negativity" was and is the wrong term. That was the point I was making.
Still, we're all Charlton fans (bar the troll) and we all want what is best for the Club. We don't and may never agree on what that means, how to get there or who should deliver it but we all do want that same thing.
To say "the main goal is to stay up" is simply understatement in the same way Duchatelet said "time will tell if it is the right decision " when he sacked Powell and brought in Riga as an interim. He is providing budget for signings and contract offers are out there for Poyet and Morrison. Peeters said the goal was to improve on 18th. Let's see who else joins the squad but I sense we will climb the table. It's a long way to 6th place and might take time but signing Buyens, Vetokele (hopefully) and retaining Morrison and Poyet...plus today's announcement that they are looking for replacements for Hamer and Dervite (as Weegie Mentions) sounds like they are well on their way to putting together the 2014-15 squad. I'm starting to believe we will finish between 9th-16th in the middle 8 but impossible to be accurate before end September and 10 games played. Let's see if the bookies shift their odds as CAFC signs players. And if we finish higher than last season then it is clear progress for which the current regime can take credit. So let's all be patient and see what the squad looks like in a month. At the end of the day it's all about improving the first 18 AND maintaining a sustainable club. All the rest is noise.
We've all been asking for some time what RD's intentions and goals are for the club... obviously long term it's to get back to the PL... but yes I do think the owner should be attempting in public statements to inspire the fans, playing staff and potential new recruits that we're aiming for more than just fourth from bottom.
I said earlier that I found the press conference encouraging, and like I said in my post I think/hope that it's just the way he phrased it, but no, after the dire season we had last year I really hoped that our owner would come out with something more positive than "the main goal is to stay up".
People are too quick to jump down the throats of those perceived to be anti-RD. I'm not... I'm cautiously optimistic given news of potential signings... but yes ideally I would like our owner to be leading from the front with a rallying cry for what we *could* achieve - I don't think my suggested positive meaning is unrealistic for the club by any means. I'm not suggesting he should have said the goal was promotion, or even the play-offs.
Unfortunately some people on here get a whiff of an anti-RD post and the red (green) mist descends and the chance for rational discussion goes up in smoke.
Fair points made. I like what you did there, but you can understand why those who want to give our new structure time get pissed off at the constant negativity.
But it isn't constant negativity. You and Vally Gary, Greenie Jnr and others keep saying that but it just isn't true.
There is a wide spectrum of views on here from RD is great and everything is fine at one extreame to RD is bad and can do nothing right at the other but the majority sit somewhere in the middle.
Hopeful and willing to see the positive aspects of RD reign so far and the potential for the future while at the same time seeing the negative aspects and appreciating the risks.
But it seems that we now live in some sort of fundamentalist state where not even the mildest criticism of BP and/or RD is allowed. Making a joke about BP looking like Karl Pilkington is slagging off RD, showing sympathy for a long serving member of staff made redundant is slagging off RD, etc etc, etc.
Weegie made a legitimate point that RD didn't really explain what BP had that JR didn't. Remember it was Riga she was talking about, not Powell. She didn't mention Powell at all.
RD even says himself that BPs virtue of playing the kids was also shared by Riga so the question is legitamate. Why Peeters and not Riga.
Asking that question is not "constant negativity" or "slagging off RD", it's a legitimate question that RD could easily answer and doesn't warrant the abuse she received.
Excellent post, Henry - I agree entirely. The sort of fundamentalist state you describe that is held dear by some of our posters denies the healthy criticism, inquiry, scepticism and dissent that are vital for any liberal and constructive enterprise.
A note on "negativity", an accusation made frequently on this site. I am critical of Duchatelet - am therefore "negative" - because his ambitions appear to be set low, despite his unimaginably vast resources. For him to publicly say our aim this season is to stay up strikes me as being appallingly unambitious. Quite the opposite of being negative, I maintain that our history, good ethics, big stadium and decent crowds are potent ingredients for a serious tilt at the play-offs.
But to compete successfully in this league there is no getting around the requirement to spend money on good players and experienced coaches.
RD is alright in my eyes as ultimately he kept us up and put an end to the sorry TJ/MS era which was only ever going to end in tears.
I questioned the sacking of Powell but I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up had he stayed in charge.
As for Kermorgant - he chose to leave, as did Hamer and Dervitte & why should RD have offered them contracts any earlier when we didn't know what division we'd be in...!?
The pitch is being rectified, the training ground is being improved and we're now starting to see some new faces arrive.
So like a lot if others on here, all I want is for us all to get behind RD, BP and the team and let's judge them once we're a few months into the season.
I don't think it's fair to put yann in the same category as us three.
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
In what way is it not fair for me to put in that catergory ?
Cos if I said to you that RD is in a bad mood today you'd say to me that bad moods don't exist in RD's world and then give me ten reasons saying why. Not knocking the positivity mate, it's refreshing just saying that I'm not as pro rd as you are
I don't think it's fair to put yann in the same category as us three.
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
You got to choose your four so why can't I choose mine? : - )
Yann is certainly one of the "everything is great, don't dare be negative" group is he not?
Glad though that you accept that "constant negativity" was and is the wrong term. That was the point I was making.
Still, we're all Charlton fans (bar the troll) and we all want what is best for the Club. We don't and may never agree on what that means, how to get there or who should deliver it but we all do want that same thing.
You seriously expect an Owner/ Chairman/ CEO/ managing Director to publicly discuss why he appointed one candidate for a position over another? Really? Good luck with having anyone apply for one of your jobs.
What did you really expect him to say?
The suggestion is beyond ludicrous. He outlined why he chose Peeters - he believed he was the best person to successfully bring our younger players through to perform and succeed at playing in the Championship. He acknowledge Riga had comparative skills but felt Peeters offered more. That's it.
Anything beyond that is a huge discourtesy to the candidate you did not pick. What do you want him to do? Start to list all things Riga had cocked up at Standard Liege when he worked for him before?
Each candidate will have had discussions with the owner concerning their vision for the future and how they would contribute to it. We were not privy to such discussion. We had/ have no right to be privy to the detail of such discussions.
I suggest many people may well see the red mist from reading a fundamentally ignorant comment.
The suggestion that to recruit Peeters, an employed, contracted Head Coach of a professional Belgian club operating at the highest level in Belgium which will have involved paying compensation to his employers Wassland-Beveren for his contract will have been cheaper than recruiting an effectively unemployed coach sitting on his doorstep barely warrants a moments scrutiny - it is derogatory to the coach, to the owner and the club. The only thing cheap is the comment itself.
I don't think it's fair to put yann in the same category as us three.
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
In what way is it not fair for me to put in that catergory ?
Cos if I said to you that RD is in a bad mood today you'd say to me that bad moods don't exist in RD's world and then give me ten reasons saying why. Not knocking the positivity mate, it's refreshing just saying that I'm not as pro rd as you are
So I'm in a whole new positive catergory on my own , sweet rd is my hero !!!
I don't think it's fair to put yann in the same category as us three.
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
In what way is it not fair for me to put in that catergory ?
Cos if I said to you that RD is in a bad mood today you'd say to me that bad moods don't exist in RD's world and then give me ten reasons saying why. Not knocking the positivity mate, it's refreshing just saying that I'm not as pro rd as you are
So I'm in a whole new positive catergory on my own , sweet rd is my hero !!!
It's all getting a bit lively on here! Are the negatives or the positives winning? Or are the 'give RD a chance and ignore the sad conspiracy theory know alls' nudging into the lead? We should be told!
It's all getting a bit lively on here! Are the negatives or the positives winning? Or are the 'give RD a chance and ignore the sad conspiracy theory know alls' nudging into the lead? We should be told!
It's all getting a bit lively on here! Are the negatives or the positives winning? Or are the 'give RD a chance and ignore the sad conspiracy theory know alls' nudging into the lead? We should be told!
They've got a woman on their team, so we will never win.
Priority 1 to stay in championship yes develop the youth yes Let's see how we start the season before everyone starts moaning about negativity and no ambition the new squad needs time to gel and get to know BP an his ways. There are to many people on here who seem to have personal gripes with RD or the previous regime got over it and move on
If you don't think that there are certain posters who consistantly spread negativity, then like VG said there's no point havin the conversation.
When posters like The Red Robin, Atletico Addick, lookie and airman (off the top of my head) post on certain threads, the chances are it will be one of the following negativity towards RD's changes, a conspiracy theory or a dig about RD in general.
I understand cautious approaches being taken, but some are ridiculous.
Unfortunately it is you, Greenie Junior, who has signed up to a conspiracy theory. Airman is big and ugly enough to defend himself, but I will tell you this. It was Airman who almost 30 years ago founded a fanzine that campaigned for the return to The Valley; Airman who served the club itself with hard work and integrity over many years; Airman who still today writes, edits and personally sells the most intelligent, eloquent, and insightful fans' magazine in the business.
Sadly, there is a now generation of our fans whose imagination, appreciation and ambition are stunted by Twitter, 'Football Manager', and the declarations of purse-lipped saloon-bar accountants.
If you don't think that there are certain posters who consistantly spread negativity, then like VG said there's no point havin the conversation.
When posters like The Red Robin, Atletico Addick, lookie and airman (off the top of my head) post on certain threads, the chances are it will be one of the following negativity towards RD's changes, a conspiracy theory or a dig about RD in general.
I understand cautious approaches being taken, but some are ridiculous.
Unfortunately it is you, Greenie Junior, who has signed up to a conspiracy theory. Airman is big and ugly enough to defend himself, but I will tell you this. It was Airman who almost 30 years ago founded a fanzine that campaigned for the return to The Valley; Airman who served the club itself with hard work and integrity over many years; Airman who still today writes, edits and personally sells the most intelligent, eloquent, and insightful fans' magazine in the business.
Sadly, there is a now generation of our fans whose imagination, appreciation and ambition are stunted by Twitter, "Football Manager", and purse-lipped saloon-bar accountants.
Yep, which is all well and good. Doesn't put him above criticism.
He may have done that ages ago but on here he comes across bitter and seanial.
Don't play football manager..
Not sure how I've started a conspiracy theory. Enlighten me
Comments
Not guilty perhaps but she sure ain't no innocent : - )
I don't think RD is all Rosey. Still weird why Riga don't get the job. But I'm willing to give a chance and not scrutinise everything he does.
Don't think I dug weegie out so don't know why I got brought into this.
And obviously it's not constant but surely even you have exaggerated once or twice in your life, no?
GJ, don't leave us, we are 5-4 down.
You got to choose your four so why can't I choose mine? : - )
Yann is certainly one of the "everything is great, don't dare be negative" group is he not?
Glad though that you accept that "constant negativity" was and is the wrong term. That was the point I was making.
Still, we're all Charlton fans (bar the troll) and we all want what is best for the Club. We don't and may never agree on what that means, how to get there or who should deliver it but we all do want that same thing.
LLL&BH
Let's see who else joins the squad but I sense we will climb the table.
It's a long way to 6th place and might take time but signing Buyens, Vetokele (hopefully) and retaining Morrison and Poyet...plus today's announcement that they are looking for replacements for Hamer and Dervite (as Weegie Mentions) sounds like they are well on their way to putting together the 2014-15 squad.
I'm starting to believe we will finish between 9th-16th in the middle 8 but impossible to be accurate before end September and 10 games played.
Let's see if the bookies shift their odds as CAFC signs players. And if we finish higher than last season then it is clear progress for which the current regime can take credit.
So let's all be patient and see what the squad looks like in a month. At the end of the day it's all about improving the first 18 AND maintaining a sustainable club. All the rest is noise.
A note on "negativity", an accusation made frequently on this site. I am critical of Duchatelet - am therefore "negative" - because his ambitions appear to be set low, despite his unimaginably vast resources. For him to publicly say our aim this season is to stay up strikes me as being appallingly unambitious. Quite the opposite of being negative, I maintain that our history, good ethics, big stadium and decent crowds are potent ingredients for a serious tilt at the play-offs.
But to compete successfully in this league there is no getting around the requirement to spend money on good players and experienced coaches.
I questioned the sacking of Powell but I'm not convinced we'd have stayed up had he stayed in charge.
As for Kermorgant - he chose to leave, as did Hamer and Dervitte & why should RD have offered them contracts any earlier when we didn't know what division we'd be in...!?
The pitch is being rectified, the training ground is being improved and we're now starting to see some new faces arrive.
So like a lot if others on here, all I want is for us all to get behind RD, BP and the team and let's judge them once we're a few months into the season.
No more digs please...
;-)
You seriously expect an Owner/ Chairman/ CEO/ managing Director to publicly discuss why he appointed one candidate for a position over another? Really? Good luck with having anyone apply for one of your jobs.
What did you really expect him to say?
The suggestion is beyond ludicrous. He outlined why he chose Peeters - he believed he was the best person to successfully bring our younger players through to perform and succeed at playing in the Championship. He acknowledge Riga had comparative skills but felt Peeters offered more. That's it.
Anything beyond that is a huge discourtesy to the candidate you did not pick. What do you want him to do? Start to list all things Riga had cocked up at Standard Liege when he worked for him before?
Each candidate will have had discussions with the owner concerning their vision for the future and how they would contribute to it. We were not privy to such discussion. We had/ have no right to be privy to the detail of such discussions.
I suggest many people may well see the red mist from reading a fundamentally ignorant comment.
The suggestion that to recruit Peeters, an employed, contracted Head Coach of a professional Belgian club operating at the highest level in Belgium which will have involved paying compensation to his employers Wassland-Beveren for his contract will have been cheaper than recruiting an effectively unemployed coach sitting on his doorstep barely warrants a moments scrutiny - it is derogatory to the coach, to the owner and the club. The only thing cheap is the comment itself.
Are the negatives or the positives winning?
Or are the 'give RD a chance and ignore the sad conspiracy theory know alls' nudging into the lead?
We should be told!
Let's see how we start the season before everyone starts moaning about negativity and no ambition the new squad needs time to gel and get to know BP an his ways. There are to many people on here who seem to have personal gripes with RD or the previous regime got over it and move on
Sadly, there is a now generation of our fans whose imagination, appreciation and ambition are stunted by Twitter, 'Football Manager', and the declarations of purse-lipped saloon-bar accountants.
He may have done that ages ago but on here he comes across bitter and seanial.
Don't play football manager..
Not sure how I've started a conspiracy theory. Enlighten me