Plenty of excuses to be given (only 2 players out of 30 used haven't had an injury layoff and one of those has spent significant time with England, no settled 11 - haven't been able to put the same 11 out twice in a row in any format. Some pretty horrendous selection seemingly on the fly - moving people up and down the order and not allowing them to settle into a role) but really the players we have had available have not done well enough and not played as well as they should have. Plenty of expensive overseas flops big names not doing it and a few people trying to pull the side through.
Only really Clarke Batty and Pope have had good or reasonable years.
Pretty poor and there needs to be a shakeup somehow.
I think next season could be just as problematic. If Roy, Pope ,Foakes and the Curren boys are all called up by England in various forms of the game we will struggle to field a settled side yet again.
To be fair, Burns Pope Foakes and Sam Curran would definitely be in my England squads
Mine too and TC and Roy in the limited overs squads.
We should have the squad to deal with it but with every remaining member of the squad having an injury at some point this season and senior players like Stoneman Borthwick and Elgar repeatedly failing it puts too much pressure on the young players coming through to fill the gaps. Morkel has been a quarter of the player he was last season. He moved his family and whole life to Australia last winter I just feel his heart is somewhere else now. He has another year on his contract but cant see him being around next year.
Dernbach whilst unspectacular was pretty key to our championship success last season but was only available of one game this year.
Last year our bowling attack was balanced and everyone had a role. If someone was unavailable we picked someone who did a similar role even if on the face of it there was a better bowler available. This year it seemed we had no plan at all. Picked whatever bowlers we wanted with no eye on role (partly enforced due to availability) but still doesn't reflect well.
In all formats it very much seems like we have just been throwing players out there and saying your good enough go play. Whereas the best teams have roles that players specialise in (particularly in limited overs) and have a plan they want to play to.
Canters - I raised this last year but I believe you said that Freddie van den Bergh would get his chance this season why is he still at Surrey? He's 27 now and been with the County for 15 years plus so there is absolutely nothing that you don't know about him - yet he's only played 18 games in all forms of the game since he turned pro and taken just 19 wickets.
Sadly Kent parted company this season with Adam Riley who also happens to be 27 - I'm not sure whether that was the right decision but there is no comparison between the two as Riles has taken 183 wickets.
FVDB has now been released by Surrey. Along with Arun Harinath which i think is a massive shame. I have always been a big fan of Harinath. Similar to Gary Wilson when he left feel it is probably right but sad to see him go.
Tough, gutsy fighter of a cricketer who always played for the good of the team. Never a 'Sexy' option and he was always the first to be dropped when a seemingly more attractive option was available.
His record didn't tell the full story - he had some very good seasons for us particularly the year we won Div 2 but then again he was first to be dropped when we brought in players from other counties.
I for one feel he could have done well in the side during various tough periods in the last few years he certainly would have shown more fight than certain 'big name' players in the side during difficult periods.
Disappointing that he didn't get a winners medal last season as hes been a great club man.
As I said it is probably best for him and us that he moves on but still feels a tinge of sadness that he is off.
But yeah back on FVDB. I really did think he would get his chance in the last couple of seasons. He did make his championship debut for us last season i believe and appear in a few T20's. He was thought of as our next spinner but his issue has been that Batty continues to get better with age and that Virdi has broken through and shown to be another level talent. Don't think he was ever given a real go but best to move on.
Thanks Canters. I think the message has to be to any young aspiring kid growing up in this country that wants to be a spinner - become a medium pacer or even better a front line batsman, as well as a spinner, if you can.
Counties hardly ever use two front line spinners these days in the CC - the days of Laker & Lock, Edmonds & Emburey and Underwood & Johnson are long gone with even the latter day exception of the Leach/Bess combo no longer an item. Out of 236 wickets Kent have taken this season, just 16 are attributed to spinners. I'm even struggling to think of any English spinners that might have taken as few as 30 wickets in the CC this season.
This is, of course, a legacy of the type of pitches we now prepare, the balls we use and time of year that we play those games that dictate that 75mph bowlers such as the legend that is Darren Stevens and the likes of David Masters are King.
Very sad because there is nothing more beautiful than a spinner using his skills to bemuse a batsman.
Thanks Canters. I think the message has to be to any young aspiring kid growing up in this country that wants to be a spinner - become a medium pacer or even better a front line batsman, as well as a spinner, if you can.
Counties hardly ever use two front line spinners these days in the CC - the days of Laker & Lock, Edmonds & Emburey and Underwood & Johnson are long gone with even the latter day exception of the Leach/Bess combo no longer an item. Out of 236 wickets Kent have taken this season, just 16 are attributed to spinners. I'm even struggling to think of any English spinners that might have taken as few as 30 wickets in the CC this season.
This is, of course, a legacy of the type of pitches we now prepare, the balls we use and time of year that we play those games that dictate that 75mph bowlers such as the legend that is Darren Stevens and the likes of David Masters are King.
Very sad because there is nothing more beautiful than a spinner using his skills to bemuse a batsman.
The best bet financially for a young spinner is to become a white ball batting/spinning all rounder
In T20 cricket spinners are a really useful asset as taking the pace off the ball makes it harder to hit, especially if you can genuinely turn the ball
And the Blast/100 is played in the middle of summer, not April/May or September...never mind the overseas leagues
Just been watching Jade Dernbach playing for Jamaica Tallawahs v Guyana Amazon Warriors in the Caribbean T20 (He did get a bit tonked...50 off his 4 overs). Tahir playing for Guyana.
So pleased for Rory that he was viewed as a success in the Ashes - should go on to make lots of runs as England opener - what a gully/slip fielder too !
So pleased for Rory that he was viewed as a success in the Ashes - should go on to make lots of runs as England opener - what a gully/slip fielder too !
Totally agree with you regarding Rory. With the lack of quality openers available I reckon he is good enough to make that position his for the next few years.
Regarding Jade Dernbach I always get the impression he tries too many variations. He has the ability to bowl at around 90mph but hardly does. He should imo concentrate on bowling fast and use his many variations of slower deliveries as suprise balls. Not the other way around.
So pleased for Rory that he was viewed as a success in the Ashes - should go on to make lots of runs as England opener - what a gully/slip fielder too !
Totally agree with you regarding Rory. With the lack of quality openers available I reckon he is good enough to make that position his for the next few years.
Regarding Jade Dernbach I always get the impression he tries too many variations. He has the ability to bowl at around 90mph but hardly does. He should imo concentrate on bowling fast and use his many variations of slower deliveries as suprise balls. Not the other way around.
Bang on. To be fair to him that perception is slightly led by the fact that he was the first english bowler to really be a one day specialist and so when he was picked for England they didn't know what to do with him they were the wrong set up and mindset for the modern limited overs game so just told him to bowl a variation every ball. When he does just bowl quick he is very good and has a viscous away swinger as we saw in the championship last season. He's been a bit hit and miss in liminited overs stuff in the last couple of years. Not really sure why. One week he blows teams away and others he gets ruined.
He's a great club man and those who know are well aware he is a very different person to the one who got a bit of a bad boy reputation on the circuit in his younger days.
Just been watching Jade Dernbach playing for Jamaica Tallawahs v Guyana Amazon Warriors in the Caribbean T20 (He did get a bit tonked...50 off his 4 overs). Tahir playing for Guyana.
It's comforting to know some things in life never change.
So pleased for Rory that he was viewed as a success in the Ashes - should go on to make lots of runs as England opener - what a gully/slip fielder too !
Totally agree with you regarding Rory. With the lack of quality openers available I reckon he is good enough to make that position his for the next few years.
Regarding Jade Dernbach I always get the impression he tries too many variations. He has the ability to bowl at around 90mph but hardly does. He should imo concentrate on bowling fast and use his many variations of slower deliveries as suprise balls. Not the other way around.
Bang on. To be fair to him that perception is slightly led by the fact that he was the first english bowler to be covered in tattoos
Corrected
I remember it was a big thing back then, as Dernbach was probably the first England player to be have the full arm tattoos...
Just been watching Jade Dernbach playing for Jamaica Tallawahs v Guyana Amazon Warriors in the Caribbean T20 (He did get a bit tonked...50 off his 4 overs). Tahir playing for Guyana.
It's comforting to know some things in life never change.
Say what you like about the man or his character but look at his record in limited overs county cricket. You really cant argue with it. Until the last couple of years he has consistently been one of the best limited overs bowlers in domestic cricket.
Hashim Amla to return to Surrey next season as a kolpak according to Cricinfo.
Jason roy just posted their article and the 😍 emoji on Instagram so it must be happening.
Well he speaks in lingo 😉😉
Seriously good signing and the sort I actually approve of (some kolpaks are negative imo) he covers the upper order batsmen Surrey are likley to loose for most of the season to England, will help players improve etc.
I actually think the ECB should help counties out with extra overseas or high class kolpaks to replace England players.
How many time has Ben Stokes played for Durham in the last 3 years? They should be able to replace him as close to like for like as possible.
Hashim Amla to return to Surrey next season as a kolpak according to Cricinfo.
Jason roy just posted their article and the 😍 emoji on Instagram so it must be happening.
Well he speaks in lingo 😉😉
Seriously good signing and the sort I actually approve of (some kolpaks are negative imo) he covers the upper order batsmen Surrey are likley to loose for most of the season to England, will help players improve etc.
I actually think the ECB should help counties out with extra overseas or high class kolpaks to replace England players.
How many time has Ben Stokes played for Durham in the last 3 years? They should be able to replace him as close to like for like as possible.
I tend to agree with you. I am generally opposed to Kolpak players and have often made comments to friends about counties being 'kolpakshire' etc. Wasn't a massive fan of us using the likes of Ravi Rampaul. As much as he did a decent job for us at the time it was very much a case of an ageing pro who was probably doing a job a young english player could. With the likes of Morkel and Amla - world class players who are recently retired from international cricket - it cannot be argued that they do not improve the quality of the county game and that can only be a good thing.
It also further disproves an argument for the 100 which is that county cricket cant attract top players.
Hashim Amla to return to Surrey next season as a kolpak according to Cricinfo.
Jason roy just posted their article and the 😍 emoji on Instagram so it must be happening.
El Presidente recently took issue with Kent's "South African" contingent but should, perhaps, look closer to home. Amla completes the team of foreign imports:
Hashim Amla (South Africa) Sam Curran (South Africa) Tom Curran (South Africa) Jason Roy (South Africa) Jade Dernbach (South Africa) Conor McKerr (South Africa) Stuart Meaker (South Africa) Morne Morkel (South Africa) Matt Pillans (South Africa) Dean Elgar(South Africa) Nico Reiffer (Barbados)
Poor Reifer would probably feel the odd one out in that side!
A number of these were educated in England. However, I'm sure it's is so not much of a coincidence that Reifer, for example, moved from playing for Barbados & West Indies U15s to Surrey U15s in the same year that he joined Whitgift School - and he isn't the only one who I suspect has been "helped" in this regard.
Amla was a great player. Now a busted flush. It'll be a good test of Div 1's collective bowling strength - can they show Amla up like every international bowler has been doing this last year or two?
You clearly do have a problem with Surrey! (not thst it wasnt obvious beforehand! 😊)
To be fair, I think @The_President did that after someone was bragging about how good Surrey's youth system was and I point out it is if Surrey included most of sub Sahara Africa. Yes I started the joke, carried it on and even mentioned Amla speaking the lingo, but even I think it's probably ran its course now.
(I'll be in the England thread carrying it on soon )
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asking for a relative friend
Plenty of excuses to be given (only 2 players out of 30 used haven't had an injury layoff and one of those has spent significant time with England, no settled 11 - haven't been able to put the same 11 out twice in a row in any format. Some pretty horrendous selection seemingly on the fly - moving people up and down the order and not allowing them to settle into a role) but really the players we have had available have not done well enough and not played as well as they should have. Plenty of expensive overseas flops big names not doing it and a few people trying to pull the side through.
Only really Clarke Batty and Pope have had good or reasonable years.
Pretty poor and there needs to be a shakeup somehow.
If Roy, Pope ,Foakes and the Curren boys are all called up by England in various forms of the game we will struggle to field a settled side yet again.
We should have the squad to deal with it but with every remaining member of the squad having an injury at some point this season and senior players like Stoneman Borthwick and Elgar repeatedly failing it puts too much pressure on the young players coming through to fill the gaps. Morkel has been a quarter of the player he was last season. He moved his family and whole life to Australia last winter I just feel his heart is somewhere else now. He has another year on his contract but cant see him being around next year.
Dernbach whilst unspectacular was pretty key to our championship success last season but was only available of one game this year.
Last year our bowling attack was balanced and everyone had a role. If someone was unavailable we picked someone who did a similar role even if on the face of it there was a better bowler available. This year it seemed we had no plan at all. Picked whatever bowlers we wanted with no eye on role (partly enforced due to availability) but still doesn't reflect well.
In all formats it very much seems like we have just been throwing players out there and saying your good enough go play. Whereas the best teams have roles that players specialise in (particularly in limited overs) and have a plan they want to play to.
Sadly Kent parted company this season with Adam Riley who also happens to be 27 - I'm not sure whether that was the right decision but there is no comparison between the two as Riles has taken 183 wickets.
Is FVDB just there to help run the 2s?
Tough, gutsy fighter of a cricketer who always played for the good of the team. Never a 'Sexy' option and he was always the first to be dropped when a seemingly more attractive option was available.
His record didn't tell the full story - he had some very good seasons for us particularly the year we won Div 2 but then again he was first to be dropped when we brought in players from other counties.
I for one feel he could have done well in the side during various tough periods in the last few years he certainly would have shown more fight than certain 'big name' players in the side during difficult periods.
Disappointing that he didn't get a winners medal last season as hes been a great club man.
As I said it is probably best for him and us that he moves on but still feels a tinge of sadness that he is off.
But yeah back on FVDB. I really did think he would get his chance in the last couple of seasons. He did make his championship debut for us last season i believe and appear in a few T20's. He was thought of as our next spinner but his issue has been that Batty continues to get better with age and that Virdi has broken through and shown to be another level talent. Don't think he was ever given a real go but best to move on.
Counties hardly ever use two front line spinners these days in the CC - the days of Laker & Lock, Edmonds & Emburey and Underwood & Johnson are long gone with even the latter day exception of the Leach/Bess combo no longer an item. Out of 236 wickets Kent have taken this season, just 16 are attributed to spinners. I'm even struggling to think of any English spinners that might have taken as few as 30 wickets in the CC this season.
This is, of course, a legacy of the type of pitches we now prepare, the balls we use and time of year that we play those games that dictate that 75mph bowlers such as the legend that is Darren Stevens and the likes of David Masters are King.
Very sad because there is nothing more beautiful than a spinner using his skills to bemuse a batsman.
In T20 cricket spinners are a really useful asset as taking the pace off the ball makes it harder to hit, especially if you can genuinely turn the ball
And the Blast/100 is played in the middle of summer, not April/May or September...never mind the overseas leagues
With the lack of quality openers available I reckon he is good enough to make that position his for the next few years.
Regarding Jade Dernbach I always get the impression he tries too many variations.
He has the ability to bowl at around 90mph but hardly does.
He should imo concentrate on bowling fast and use his many variations of slower deliveries as suprise balls.
Not the other way around.
He's a great club man and those who know are well aware he is a very different person to the one who got a bit of a bad boy reputation on the circuit in his younger days.
Not convinced by him as T20 captain though.
I remember it was a big thing back then, as Dernbach was probably the first England player to be have the full arm tattoos...
Jason roy just posted their article and the 😍 emoji on Instagram so it must be happening.
Seriously good signing and the sort I actually approve of (some kolpaks are negative imo) he covers the upper order batsmen Surrey are likley to loose for most of the season to England, will help players improve etc.
I actually think the ECB should help counties out with extra overseas or high class kolpaks to replace England players.
How many time has Ben Stokes played for Durham in the last 3 years? They should be able to replace him as close to like for like as possible.
It also further disproves an argument for the 100 which is that county cricket cant attract top players.
Hashim Amla (South Africa)
Sam Curran (South Africa)
Tom Curran (South Africa)
Jason Roy (South Africa)
Jade Dernbach (South Africa)
Conor McKerr (South Africa)
Stuart Meaker (South Africa)
Morne Morkel (South Africa)
Matt Pillans (South Africa)
Dean Elgar(South Africa)
Nico Reiffer (Barbados)
Poor Reifer would probably feel the odd one out in that side!
A number of these were educated in England. However, I'm sure it's is so not much of a coincidence that Reifer, for example, moved from playing for Barbados & West Indies U15s to Surrey U15s in the same year that he joined Whitgift School - and he isn't the only one who I suspect has been "helped" in this regard.
(I'll be in the England thread carrying it on soon