You have to remember what Farage is and who he actually represents.
He is basically an old-fashioned far right-wing, anti-Europe, anti-immigrant Conservative who has no place in the party any more because Cameron has moved the party to the centre to make it electable in modern Britain.
Of course, if Farage ran as a "Real Conservative" or something he'd get nowhere so he re-brands as an anti-Europe party and if you pay attention - never uses the word "Conservative" to describe himself - now, why might that be I wonder?
It's perfectly legitimate to express concerns about our role in Europe and immigration levels - and the latter is clearly a problem to some degree - but you have to do it responsibly without whipping up fear and resentment.
I watched that interview last night. I thought it was crap. How was he going to find out anything about Policies etc when he really didn't ask any questions about them. It was an interview all about hisself the way he conducted it, talking over Farage and not letting him Finnish answers. That probably why he doesn't do many interviews on his show as he has no balance just bias when it people don't agree with him. You have allot of People that don't like Nick Clegg but at least he has the balls to go head to head with Nigel Farage where the other 2 main party's shit them self about the debate. You have to give both men credit for this.
Thats fantastic eh....as others have said he gets absolutely destroyed. A `car crash' of an interview if ever there was one.
I've never heard of James O'Brien before but that is a serious journalist right there. Very clever, skillful stuff....some of the `traps' that Farage walks into are beautiful. He was hoping for a 20 minute soapbox advert for his party but instead gets dismantled brick by brick and shown up for the trashy tosser he is. A rat in a suit.
So here I sit, unconvinced about the federalisation of Europe, basically under the control of the Germans, where we appear to be losing more and more of our own controls and balances, that seem to have worked perfectly well over the past several hundred years.
The waste and mismanagement I've seen and read about in Europe concerns me and the way certain members ignore specific legislation to suit their own agendas doesn't inspire me with a confidence of an 'all for one and one for all' idealoligy.
The constant cry of loss of trade and mass unemployment from the 'pro' lobby rings hollow to me. The whole World is getting smaller and what worked 40 years ago (free trade and a common agriculture policy) only works for those countries who produce masses of widgets or legumes.
Following the virtual collapse of the Euro, this vote is an important one as to the future direction of the Country, and I for one, want a sensible, non politicised debate held before making a decision - for the sake of future generations.
So here I sit, unconvinced about the federalisation of Europe, basically under the control of the Germans, where we appear to be losing more and more of our own controls and balances, that seem to have worked perfectly well over the past several hundred years.
The waste and mismanagement I've seen and read about in Europe concerns me and the way certain members ignore specific legislation to suit their own agendas doesn't inspire me with a confidence of an 'all for one and one for all' idealoligy.
The constant cry of loss of trade and mass unemployment from the 'pro' lobby rings hollow to me. The whole World is getting smaller and what worked 40 years ago (free trade and a common agriculture policy) only works for those countries who produce masses of widgets or legumes.
Following the virtual collapse of the Euro, this vote is an important one as to the future direction of the Country, and I for one, want a sensible, non politicised debate held before making a decision - for the sake of future generations.
I watched that interview last night. I thought it was crap. How was he going to find out anything about Policies etc when he really didn't ask any questions about them. It was an interview all about hisself the way he conducted it, talking over Farage and not letting him Finnish answers. That probably why he doesn't do many interviews on his show as he has no balance just bias when it people don't agree with him. You have allot of People that don't like Nick Clegg but at least he has the balls to go head to head with Nigel Farage where the other 2 main party's shit them self about the debate. You have to give both men credit for this.
It wasn't an interview, it was a debate. Farage kept dodging the question about his party being racist completely. The journalist said "hang on, answer the question", farage kept digging himself a hole larger and larger until he asked "what do you mean by racist?" I could almost hear Malcolm Tucker have a breakdown hearing that. There were some pressing questions for sure beforehand, but that's the guy's job. I think his line of questioning about farage's businesses was a bit out of order (minus the point about illegal immigrants), businesses do fail, it's a way of life and to almost mock that is out of order in my opinion, as well as "I'm a normal person, of course I don't own a business", so I'm guessing plumbers, electricians, builders etc aren't "normal people" as well. But I digress, Farage completely fell apart around 14 minutes.
Half the problem is focussing on advocacy rather than policy and a bit of honesty.
If someone is making good policy suggestions, doesnt matter if they dont have an answer to some obscure "fact" pulled out by some journo. There is your problem...media. We got this freak show at the moment where most front benchers are as constant as fart in the wind. Just hot air.
General apatathy is a e concern. Most of my generation are seemingly influenced by the smokescreen the media generates and have little interest in the issues. Its sad and getting worse.
We got a load a rent a cliche politicians, produced from the same greasy machine whether they are blue or red.
Half the problem is focussing on advocacy rather than policy and a bit of honesty.
If someone is making good policy suggestions, doesnt matter if they dont have an answer to some obscure "fact" pulled out by some journo. There is your problem...media. We got this freak show at the moment where most front benchers are as constant as fart in the wind. Just hot air.
General apatathy is a e concern. Most of my generation are seemingly influenced by the smokescreen the media generates and have little interest in the issues. Its sad and getting worse.
We got a load a rent a cliche politicians, produced from the same greasy machine whether they are blue or red.
so this ^
as a nation we're becoming more and more "americanised" in regards to our views on politics(theatre)
Half the problem is focussing on advocacy rather than policy and a bit of honesty.
If someone is making good policy suggestions, doesnt matter if they dont have an answer to some obscure "fact" pulled out by some journo. There is your problem...media. We got this freak show at the moment where most front benchers are as constant as fart in the wind. Just hot air.
General apatathy is a e concern. Most of my generation are seemingly influenced by the smokescreen the media generates and have little interest in the issues. Its sad and getting worse.
We got a load a rent a cliche politicians, produced from the same greasy machine whether they are blue or red.
what doesn't help is people supporting political parties like football teams, that they can do no wrong, or it's always better than the "other" parties. Have an open mind and see what politicians represent your views and that you can "trust", rather than the political party that you trust. People think it's an american system, where we vote for the party or prime minister, you vote for your MP. This has allowed the parties to put in any tom dick or harry in safe seats so that they can pay back the back handers they've been given.
But a lot of the time when he's interviewed the host goes in with his/her own agenda and makes it a bit of a farce.
You can say well he is spouting a load of b*llocks which is true, but its better to just not give him the air time at all.
The difficulty with UKIP is that Farage has made the entire party be about him. I'm sure some people can think of other UKIP candidates, but I can't name one.
He refuses to discuss his own performance and views, and tries to avoid discussing his members' comments/views.
He refuses to discuss UKIP policies (eg on Andrew Neill last Sunday).
He refuses to discuss the views of the European parties he has gone into bed with.
And if an interviewer tries to dig deep into any of this, it does often look like some smart-arse bullying the small guy.
All of this leaves me seeing UKIP as a vague Eurosceptic organisation, and I'll have to guess the rest of their policies (or read the manifesto they refuse to discuss).
By the way, I thought Andrew Neill absolutely mullered the Labour bloke last Sunday.
The point is UKIP don't have any proper policies so he can't talk about them.
Still.... durrrr.... funny speaking people in my street.... vote UKIP... I'm not racist... show those pigs in troughs politicians we won't stand for it any more just like Nigel says.... MIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DUUUUURRRRRR
So here I sit, unconvinced about the federalisation of Europe, basically under the control of the Germans, where we appear to be losing more and more of our own controls and balances, that seem to have worked perfectly well over the past several hundred years.
The waste and mismanagement I've seen and read about in Europe concerns me and the way certain members ignore specific legislation to suit their own agendas doesn't inspire me with a confidence of an 'all for one and one for all' idealoligy.
The constant cry of loss of trade and mass unemployment from the 'pro' lobby rings hollow to me. The whole World is getting smaller and what worked 40 years ago (free trade and a common agriculture policy) only works for those countries who produce masses of widgets or legumes.
Following the virtual collapse of the Euro, this vote is an important one as to the future direction of the Country, and I for one, want a sensible, non politicised debate held before making a decision - for the sake of future generations.
So who do I vote for?
I would like to try and answer in a way which does not set off a firestorm. Some hope, but here goes...
Way back at Uni, I learnt that in order for democracy to work, people need to participate. That means arguing rationally and persuading, not jeering from the back of the class as Farage and his mob (plus some, but not all, Tories, do). I am half convinced that Cameron understands that. However he joined a bloc in the EP which includes some jeering freeloaders. Since I sense you are not a natural Lib Dem voter, I suppose you could vote Conservative if you felt that the likes of Ken Clarke would prevail over Cash and Hannam. Not sure they will.
Ask yourself two things. First, do you really believe that the average German is less aware of the waste and graft that goes on in Brussels than you are? And if they are, that they don't mind it? If you conclude that of course they are as pissed off as you or I about it, that indicates that a reform-minded British government will have allies in Northern Europe which could improve things. But only if the British participate, rather than deliberately maximising expense claims and insulting all their fellow parliament members.
Second, ask yourself what are the three most important things that bother you in your British daily life that you could reasonably expect politics to influence. Listening to the views of my folks back in Eltham, theirs would probably be:
1. The NHS (always has been, suspect it always will be) 2. The high cost and low delivery of London transport 3. The degradation of Eltham High Street
I expect that as my nephew and niece look to leave home permanently, the cost of housing will rocket into the top 3 soon.
Now if you look at that list, the resolutions are entirely, totally within the UK's control to fix. The EU has not caused those problems, nor does it prevent them being improved (although in the case of 2, 3, and indeed housing, just studying the German ways might help). My point is that Europe, while far from perfect, has become a convenient excuse for the British to ignore or deflect problems that they can and should fix themselves.
Finally the Euro has not "virtually collapsed". Two years ago a lot of highly paid people in Britain told you that Greece would be out by the end of the year ("Grexit"), and that the euro would then collapse completely. It did not happen. You might want to remind yourself who these people were, and ask yourself what kind of agenda they were pursuing, and whether they should be held to account for their fear-mongering.
Very good post Prague. I hope that a thread on this very subject can be negotiated in the not too distant future without it degenerating into abuse along the usual left / right party lines.
There are a huge number of people in this country that really do not have a clue as to what way they should vote in the referendum when it comes and it would be good for Charlton Life to provide a balance of views which it is perfectly capable of doing.
Thanks for at least trying to help - but you don't really answer the fundamental issues I originally raised.
I like the idea of rational arguement, but all I've seen of our politicians over the past ten years or so is childish, petty, name calling generally followed by 'you're policies are rubbish', yet completely unable to tell me what they intend to do themselves - other than the tired old left/right cliches.
I'm strongly against 'party politics'. We should get to vote for the individual who best represents our views and we end up with 650 independent MPs who vote for a Government. I've lived in constituencies, where if you stick Pol Pot in a blue rosette, he'd get elected.
Historically, I've learnt that twice in the last 100 years, I shouldn't believe that either Franz or Hilda want the same thing as me or my Country. Undoubtedly we can influence things better from the inside, but is our position now so watered down that it really doesn't matter what the UK thinks? What is the strength of our Veto? I really don't know - and that's what concerns me.
What bothers me most as a UK citizen is;
1) A strong economy from which everyone benefits and living standards aren't continually eroded.
2) A safe, secure Country, where my Children and Grandchildren can live with freedom and the ability to be ambitious without being condemned or vilified.
3) A caring Society, where we all contribute according to our means and support is provided where it's really needed - whether as indivudals or businesses. I suppose an old fashioned British sense of fair play.
But can that be achieved just as well 'outside' of Europe as in it?
Some people may consider my views to be that of a 'Little Englander', well sorry about that, but they are my own views that I believe will help make the UK a better Society.
Two of the main parties are strongly pro Europe (though they have their own supporters who aren't). The third has at least promised the debate after the next election.
This is not a General or Local Election. It's a European Election. Apart from the usual few wacko parties out there, I believe the best way the establishment will listen to my concerns about the future direction of the UK and Europe is by voting UKIP.
I'm pretty sure the debate will move up the agenda if enough people do - and from the scaremongering against Farage we've been getting from all sides, the establishment is obviously worried he will do well.
Finally, the Euro is still on the brink. The economies of several E U Countries is being significantly supported, both within and outside Europe. That doesn't mean to say it can't be turned round with the 'right medicine' - which to me is some kind of 'austerity' programme which includes controls on expenditure and raising income to reduce debt - it's what I have to do with my domestic budgets. It certainly seems to be working in the UK, Ireland and Greece.
I fear for the future prosperity of the UK outside the EU. The future of world economics is going to be all about huge trading blocks. The USA has always been insular and protectionist and will not change. The emerging giant economies of China and India and the likelihood of a trading block being formed similar to the EU for the rest of the Far East.
Each of those mega blocks will do whatever it can to advance and protect their member states or country. They will negotiate the best deals based on mammoth purchasing and production ability. There will be little room for the single player.
I keep being reminded that countries like Switzerland are outside and doing very nicely but comparing that country and other examples to the UK is like comparing apples and pears. We do not produce and export cuckoo clocks and provide dubious banking as a way of earning a living. We need to be "into" everything.
Think supermarket v corner shop. No way can the smaller single compete with the buying power of the giant. Yes they eke out a niche living but it is hard and limited.
As our prosperity decreased many of the things we hold dear like our NHS and welfare state system will become increasingly difficult to sustain for a population of our size. We simply wouldn't be doing well enough to pay for it.
The EU does need reform and the main players are perfectly aware that this needs to happen. The Prime Minister whoever that might be would undoubtedly find allies in Germany and France. The UK must be on the inside driving forward those reforms. Leaving us would be putting ourselves in a very vulnerable position. One that I feel cannot be seriously contemplated.
Thanks SHG. Some very pertinant and strong reasoning for remaining within the EU.
Is it all about trade though? Would China and India both stop trading with us? Aren't we a net importer of their goods anyway? Would both stop buying the niche goods market at which we do so well at?
Can't we join another trading block? Is it the EU or bust?
Thanks SHG. Some very pertinant and strong reasoning for remaining within the EU.
Is it all about trade though? Would China and India both stop trading with us? Aren't we a net importer of their goods anyway? Would both stop buying the niche goods market at which we do so well at?
Can't we join another trading block? Is it the EU or bust?
I'm sure India or whoever would sell us whatever we wanted to buy but does Heinz sell it's baked beans cheaper to Tesco or Arkwrights convenient open all hours corner shop. The answer is Tesco because it buys so many. A poor analogy perhaps but I'm sure you catch my point.
As for EU or bust ? What other block could we conceivably join ?
I looked at your Top 3 agenda for the UK. My first thought was, that I don't see any way in which our membership of the EU inhibits our ability to achieve those goals. But fair enough, you are asking how the EU positively contributes to those goals.
Well let's take your point 3. I don't know about you but I am sick and tired of the new breed of global companies taking the piss out of our tax system. I mean, in no particular order, Google, Facebook, Amazon and Starbucks. Actually I think Amazon are the most blatant. Only the EU is both strong enough and ideologically ready enough to take this lot on. They have already taken on and beaten Microsoft and Intel. They have taken on the big telcos. Roaming charges have been slashed. They have taken on the retail banks. Thanks- only - to the EU you can can now transfer money across borders in the eurozone by bank transfer for little more than within the UK. This really matters to businesses with international trade, but it also means that little people on eBay etc can buy and sell across the eurozone without some bank robbing them blind.
That's far from the whole argument of course, but it's something I'm conscious of, running a small business which inevitably crosses borders, as well as retaining a "footprint" in the UK which allows me to see - or confronts me with - the advantages of the single market.
Wow an intelligent debate about the EU. That is rarer than rocking horse sh*t.
Here's my view. Our country would be completely mad to leave the EU. Would we survive? Yes we would, impoverished, left with trading on the EU's terms but not shaping them, and still not controlling our borders. What about the 2M plus English people who live in the EU, many of whom may have to return to Britain as their rights will have been removed?
I am going steer clear of attacking the man, but just say that I despise the anti - foreigner stuff. I am descended from germanic stock like most of us. Our nation has massively been enriched by those of other nations that have made their life here. It makes my heart sink when I hear comments made stereotyping national "characteristics" and making them out to be some underclass.
I have been a Liberal all my life. I have found the last few years very hard to swallow as the party I support has got in to bed with the party I spent my whole life fighting (politically) to defeat. One thing that sustained me was the Lib Dems position on the EU. I am dismayed though that they have chosen to ditch their position on having an in/out referendum. Our country desperately needs one. Democracy requires the people to be engaged in the debate. That debate is massively overdue. I am voting Green this time because I want to vote for a party that is passionately pro European and who wants the in/out referendum to go ahead.
But the UK is a massive market - ask the German car producers. Would they/could they charge us more for their products when we can get comparitive goods from elsewhere throughout this ever shrinking World?
Cannot a new 'trading block' be put together. What about the Commonwealth - it would appear that a lot of Countries are keen to join it?
But the UK is a massive market - ask the German car producers. Would they/could they charge us more for their products when we can get comparitive goods from elsewhere throughout this ever shrinking World?
Cannot a new 'trading block' be put together. What about the Commonwealth - it would appear that a lot of Countries are keen to join it?
Didn't you have some real problems with currency transfer ealier this year? Is that a thing of the past now?
Thanks to all for your input. At the moment I'm sure I'll decide only once I'm in the polling booth!
Why do we need a new trading block - one that is likely to be smaller than the EU, and light years behind it in terms of its institutions? Countries may want to join the Commonwealth but so have countries been wanting to get into the EU.
Of course there is stuff about the EU I don't like. There are also huge myths perpetrated by the "anti" camp that need challenging. An example is that by being in the EU, we are swamped with foreigners from other EU countries taking up our NHS services when is never mentioned that UK citizens have rights to access free healthcare in other EU countries and frequently do, if the type of treatment they need is not readily available here. We have over 2 million of our citizens living/working in the rest of the EU. If you listen to Smiley/Stripey Nige, you get the impression its only one way.
The commonwealth was effectively Australia and New Zealand as far as trade went. The Canadians were always close to the USA. We ditched Aus and NZ when we thought the Common Market was a better option. That was regrettable but it did make sense. Where would it be most sensible to buy your leg of lamb from ? The other side of the world or the other side of the channel. Of course it has become more complicated than that. On the other foot. Where was it most sensible for Australia to import its cars from UK or Japan ?
Would the Germans charge us more for their cars if we were not in the EU ? I don't know but it would be very easy for the EU to make life much harder for our exporters of say for example lamp shades where the same were being manufactured in France and Italy. Once out of the EU they would see us as rivals and do us no favours. You could easily see our share of such competitive markets shrinking because the EU block wouldn't so easily be able to buy our goods. If the market shrinks then production costs rise which then becomes even more difficult to compete.
My arguments are simplistic I realise but the EU is a huge market for us to sell to that is on our doorstep and we complete with other EU competitors on an equal footing. That could so easily be lost. Do we really think we can sell much of anything to China or India apart from luxury goods like Scotch Whisky ?
Ukip will win more votes in this euro election than anyone else people are pissed off with conservatives and that ridiculous looking fool milliband
Like it or not in this election Ukip will win by a landslide
In the general election they won't even poll enough votes to effect the top two but the powder puff liberals will suffer because of them
This is right of course, the more significant vote this year may well be the Scottish one, again I believe the people will vote using X-factor/Jeremy Kyle/Taxi Driver rules to guide them.
Ukip will win more votes in this euro election than anyone else people are pissed off with conservatives and that ridiculous looking fool milliband
Like it or not in this election Ukip will win by a landslide
In the general election they won't even poll enough votes to effect the top two but the powder puff liberals will suffer because of them
I think the conservatives will lose votes to them in the general election. I don't think the natural liberal voter deciding he can't vote for Clegg will swap his vote to Tory or UKIP. I think Labour and The Greens will benefit most by the Liberals demise. It's the only reason Cameron has offered the promise of a referendum on Europe if he is elected on a majority. The cons are at the moment scared stiff of Farage.
As for Milliband. He's keeping schtum because he knows that by not saying anything he less likely to offend the voter. He's hoping that between Farage and Clegg he can split the Tory vote and gain Liberals. We shall see.
Comments
He is basically an old-fashioned far right-wing, anti-Europe, anti-immigrant Conservative who has no place in the party any more because Cameron has moved the party to the centre to make it electable in modern Britain.
Of course, if Farage ran as a "Real Conservative" or something he'd get nowhere so he re-brands as an anti-Europe party and if you pay attention - never uses the word "Conservative" to describe himself - now, why might that be I wonder?
It's perfectly legitimate to express concerns about our role in Europe and immigration levels - and the latter is clearly a problem to some degree - but you have to do it responsibly without whipping up fear and resentment.
You have allot of People that don't like Nick Clegg but at least he has the balls to go head to head with Nigel Farage where the other 2 main party's shit them self about the debate. You have to give both men credit for this.
I've never heard of James O'Brien before but that is a serious journalist right there. Very clever, skillful stuff....some of the `traps' that Farage walks into are beautiful. He was hoping for a 20 minute soapbox advert for his party but instead gets dismantled brick by brick and shown up for the trashy tosser he is. A rat in a suit.
The waste and mismanagement I've seen and read about in Europe concerns me and the way certain members ignore specific legislation to suit their own agendas doesn't inspire me with a confidence of an 'all for one and one for all' idealoligy.
The constant cry of loss of trade and mass unemployment from the 'pro' lobby rings hollow to me. The whole World is getting smaller and what worked 40 years ago (free trade and a common agriculture policy) only works for those countries who produce masses of widgets or legumes.
Following the virtual collapse of the Euro, this vote is an important one as to the future direction of the Country, and I for one, want a sensible, non politicised debate held before making a decision - for the sake of future generations.
So who do I vote for?
If someone is making good policy suggestions, doesnt matter if they dont have an answer to some obscure "fact" pulled out by some journo. There is your problem...media. We got this freak show at the moment where most front benchers are as constant as fart in the wind. Just hot air.
General apatathy is a e concern. Most of my generation are seemingly influenced by the smokescreen the media generates and have little interest in the issues. Its sad and getting worse.
We got a load a rent a cliche politicians, produced from the same greasy machine whether they are blue or red.
as a nation we're becoming more and more "americanised" in regards to our views on politics(theatre)
Romney...well ive got a set of policies to win the republican party vote then I got another set of policies to take to the election.
But a lot of the time when he's interviewed the host goes in with his/her own agenda and makes it a bit of a farce.
You can say well he is spouting a load of b*llocks which is true, but its better to just not give him the air time at all.
He refuses to discuss his own performance and views, and tries to avoid discussing his members' comments/views.
He refuses to discuss UKIP policies (eg on Andrew Neill last Sunday).
He refuses to discuss the views of the European parties he has gone into bed with.
And if an interviewer tries to dig deep into any of this, it does often look like some smart-arse bullying the small guy.
All of this leaves me seeing UKIP as a vague Eurosceptic organisation, and I'll have to guess the rest of their policies (or read the manifesto they refuse to discuss).
By the way, I thought Andrew Neill absolutely mullered the Labour bloke last Sunday.
Still.... durrrr.... funny speaking people in my street.... vote UKIP... I'm not racist... show those pigs in troughs politicians we won't stand for it any more just like Nigel says.... MIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DUUUUURRRRRR
(solly)
Way back at Uni, I learnt that in order for democracy to work, people need to participate. That means arguing rationally and persuading, not jeering from the back of the class as Farage and his mob (plus some, but not all, Tories, do). I am half convinced that Cameron understands that. However he joined a bloc in the EP which includes some jeering freeloaders. Since I sense you are not a natural Lib Dem voter, I suppose you could vote Conservative if you felt that the likes of Ken Clarke would prevail over Cash and Hannam. Not sure they will.
Ask yourself two things. First, do you really believe that the average German is less aware of the waste and graft that goes on in Brussels than you are? And if they are, that they don't mind it? If you conclude that of course they are as pissed off as you or I about it, that indicates that a reform-minded British government will have allies in Northern Europe which could improve things. But only if the British participate, rather than deliberately maximising expense claims and insulting all their fellow parliament members.
Second, ask yourself what are the three most important things that bother you in your British daily life that you could reasonably expect politics to influence. Listening to the views of my folks back in Eltham, theirs would probably be:
1. The NHS (always has been, suspect it always will be)
2. The high cost and low delivery of London transport
3. The degradation of Eltham High Street
I expect that as my nephew and niece look to leave home permanently, the cost of housing will rocket into the top 3 soon.
Now if you look at that list, the resolutions are entirely, totally within the UK's control to fix. The EU has not caused those problems, nor does it prevent them being improved (although in the case of 2, 3, and indeed housing, just studying the German ways might help). My point is that Europe, while far from perfect, has become a convenient excuse for the British to ignore or deflect problems that they can and should fix themselves.
Finally the Euro has not "virtually collapsed". Two years ago a lot of highly paid people in Britain told you that Greece would be out by the end of the year ("Grexit"), and that the euro would then collapse completely. It did not happen. You might want to remind yourself who these people were, and ask yourself what kind of agenda they were pursuing, and whether they should be held to account for their fear-mongering.
There are a huge number of people in this country that really do not have a clue as to what way they should vote in the referendum when it comes and it would be good for Charlton Life to provide a balance of views which it is perfectly capable of doing.
I like the idea of rational arguement, but all I've seen of our politicians over the past ten years or so is childish, petty, name calling generally followed by 'you're policies are rubbish', yet completely unable to tell me what they intend to do themselves - other than the tired old left/right cliches.
I'm strongly against 'party politics'. We should get to vote for the individual who best represents our views and we end up with 650 independent MPs who vote for a Government. I've lived in constituencies, where if you stick Pol Pot in a blue rosette, he'd get elected.
Historically, I've learnt that twice in the last 100 years, I shouldn't believe that either Franz or Hilda want the same thing as me or my Country. Undoubtedly we can influence things better from the inside, but is our position now so watered down that it really doesn't matter what the UK thinks? What is the strength of our Veto? I really don't know - and that's what concerns me.
What bothers me most as a UK citizen is;
1) A strong economy from which everyone benefits and living standards aren't continually eroded.
2) A safe, secure Country, where my Children and Grandchildren can live with freedom and the ability to be ambitious without being condemned or vilified.
3) A caring Society, where we all contribute according to our means and support is provided where it's really needed - whether as indivudals or businesses. I suppose an old fashioned British sense of fair play.
But can that be achieved just as well 'outside' of Europe as in it?
Some people may consider my views to be that of a 'Little Englander', well sorry about that, but they are my own views that I believe will help make the UK a better Society.
Two of the main parties are strongly pro Europe (though they have their own supporters who aren't). The third has at least promised the debate after the next election.
This is not a General or Local Election. It's a European Election. Apart from the usual few wacko parties out there, I believe the best way the establishment will listen to my concerns about the future direction of the UK and Europe is by voting UKIP.
I'm pretty sure the debate will move up the agenda if enough people do - and from the scaremongering against Farage we've been getting from all sides, the establishment is obviously worried he will do well.
Finally, the Euro is still on the brink. The economies of several E U Countries is being significantly supported, both within and outside Europe. That doesn't mean to say it can't be turned round with the 'right medicine' - which to me is some kind of 'austerity' programme which includes controls on expenditure and raising income to reduce debt - it's what I have to do with my domestic budgets. It certainly seems to be working in the UK, Ireland and Greece.
Each of those mega blocks will do whatever it can to advance and protect their member states or country. They will negotiate the best deals based on mammoth purchasing and production ability. There will be little room for the single player.
I keep being reminded that countries like Switzerland are outside and doing very nicely but comparing that country and other examples to the UK is like comparing apples and pears. We do not produce and export cuckoo clocks and provide dubious banking as a way of earning a living. We need to be "into" everything.
Think supermarket v corner shop. No way can the smaller single compete with the buying power of the giant. Yes they eke out a niche living but it is hard and limited.
As our prosperity decreased many of the things we hold dear like our NHS and welfare state system will become increasingly difficult to sustain for a population of our size. We simply wouldn't be doing well enough to pay for it.
The EU does need reform and the main players are perfectly aware that this needs to happen. The Prime Minister whoever that might be would undoubtedly find allies in Germany and France. The UK must be on the inside driving forward those reforms. Leaving us would be putting ourselves in a very vulnerable position. One that I feel cannot be seriously contemplated.
Is it all about trade though? Would China and India both stop trading with us? Aren't we a net importer of their goods anyway? Would both stop buying the niche goods market at which we do so well at?
Can't we join another trading block? Is it the EU or bust?
As for EU or bust ? What other block could we conceivably join ?
I looked at your Top 3 agenda for the UK. My first thought was, that I don't see any way in which our membership of the EU inhibits our ability to achieve those goals. But fair enough, you are asking how the EU positively contributes to those goals.
Well let's take your point 3. I don't know about you but I am sick and tired of the new breed of global companies taking the piss out of our tax system. I mean, in no particular order, Google, Facebook, Amazon and Starbucks. Actually I think Amazon are the most blatant. Only the EU is both strong enough and ideologically ready enough to take this lot on. They have already taken on and beaten Microsoft and Intel. They have taken on the big telcos. Roaming charges have been slashed. They have taken on the retail banks. Thanks- only - to the EU you can can now transfer money across borders in the eurozone by bank transfer for little more than within the UK. This really matters to businesses with international trade, but it also means that little people on eBay etc can buy and sell across the eurozone without some bank robbing them blind.
That's far from the whole argument of course, but it's something I'm conscious of, running a small business which inevitably crosses borders, as well as retaining a "footprint" in the UK which allows me to see - or confronts me with - the advantages of the single market.
Here's my view. Our country would be completely mad to leave the EU. Would we survive? Yes we would, impoverished, left with trading on the EU's terms but not shaping them, and still not controlling our borders. What about the 2M plus English people who live in the EU, many of whom may have to return to Britain as their rights will have been removed?
I am going steer clear of attacking the man, but just say that I despise the anti - foreigner stuff. I am descended from germanic stock like most of us. Our nation has massively been enriched by those of other nations that have made their life here. It makes my heart sink when I hear comments made stereotyping national "characteristics" and making them out to be some underclass.
I have been a Liberal all my life. I have found the last few years very hard to swallow as the party I support has got in to bed with the party I spent my whole life fighting (politically) to defeat. One thing that sustained me was the Lib Dems position on the EU. I am dismayed though that they have chosen to ditch their position on having an in/out referendum. Our country desperately needs one. Democracy requires the people to be engaged in the debate. That debate is massively overdue. I am voting Green this time because I want to vote for a party that is passionately pro European and who wants the in/out referendum to go ahead.
But the UK is a massive market - ask the German car producers. Would they/could they charge us more for their products when we can get comparitive goods from elsewhere throughout this ever shrinking World?
Cannot a new 'trading block' be put together. What about the Commonwealth - it would appear that a lot of Countries are keen to join it?
@PragueAddick
Didn't you have some real problems with currency transfer ealier this year? Is that a thing of the past now?
Thanks to all for your input. At the moment I'm sure I'll decide only once I'm in the polling booth!
Of course there is stuff about the EU I don't like. There are also huge myths perpetrated by the "anti" camp that need challenging. An example is that by being in the EU, we are swamped with foreigners from other EU countries taking up our NHS services when is never mentioned that UK citizens have rights to access free healthcare in other EU countries and frequently do, if the type of treatment they need is not readily available here. We have over 2 million of our citizens living/working in the rest of the EU. If you listen to Smiley/Stripey Nige, you get the impression its only one way.
The commonwealth was effectively Australia and New Zealand as far as trade went. The Canadians were always close to the USA. We ditched Aus and NZ when we thought the Common Market was a better option. That was regrettable but it did make sense. Where would it be most sensible to buy your leg of lamb from ? The other side of the world or the other side of the channel. Of course it has become more complicated than that. On the other foot. Where was it most sensible for Australia to import its cars from UK or Japan ?
Would the Germans charge us more for their cars if we were not in the EU ? I don't know but it would be very easy for the EU to make life much harder for our exporters of say for example lamp shades where the same were being manufactured in France and Italy. Once out of the EU they would see us as rivals and do us no favours. You could easily see our share of such competitive markets shrinking because the EU block wouldn't so easily be able to buy our goods. If the market shrinks then production costs rise which then becomes even more difficult to compete.
My arguments are simplistic I realise but the EU is a huge market for us to sell to that is on our doorstep and we complete with other EU competitors on an equal footing. That could so easily be lost. Do we really think we can sell much of anything to China or India apart from luxury goods like Scotch Whisky ?
Unity is strength.
Like it or not in this election Ukip will win by a landslide
In the general election they won't even poll enough votes to effect the top two but the powder puff liberals will suffer because of them
As for Milliband. He's keeping schtum because he knows that by not saying anything he less likely to offend the voter. He's hoping that between Farage and Clegg he can split the Tory vote and gain Liberals. We shall see.