The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
Not if it was done democratically. Indeed - far from it, I would welcome the input and involvement of all those named in driving forward the Trust's agenda. Are they all members of CAST?
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Again, fantastic. No qualms about the 'membership' or the dtermination of those involved, but where are the young thrusting 20 somethings who are just as fanatical and concerned about the direction in which the Club is going?
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
What you are really saying then is mind your own business, this is for the trust not you. But as Charlton supporters it is our business.
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Who exactly are you representing because this Charlton fan of fifty two years is happy with Roland. Why was this particular committee not formed when the last owners were in Power? There was no information coming out of the Club then. I also think it seriously undermines the Supporters Trust.
I think after Powell was sacked, it has all got a bit hysterical. There is no sign that we are going to be a feeder club for Standard Liege. If you believe some people Roland taking us over has saved us from Administration. He is spending a lot of money on the pitch, and is bringing down the debt in the Club, all good so far.
I didn't agree with selling two of our best players in Kermy and Stephens and I would have given Powell until the end of the season. But I can see why he did what he did.
I am going to give Roland and his regime some time to see what unfolds in the next year or two.
I would also be interested to know this
Because the whole thing is motivated and underpinned by the Powell sacking.
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
What you are really saying then is mind your own business, this is for the trust not you. But as Charlton supporters it is our business.
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Who exactly are you representing because this Charlton fan of fifty two years is happy with Roland. Why was this particular committee not formed when the last owners were in Power? There was no information coming out of the Club then. I also think it seriously undermines the Supporters Trust.
I think after Powell was sacked, it has all got a bit hysterical. There is no sign that we are going to be a feeder club for Standard Liege. If you believe some people Roland taking us over has saved us from Administration. He is spending a lot of money on the pitch, and is bringing down the debt in the Club, all good so far.
I didn't agree with selling two of our best players in Kermy and Stephens and I would have given Powell until the end of the season. But I can see why he did what he did.
I am going to give Roland and his regime some time to see what unfolds in the next year or two.
I would also be interested to know this
Because the whole thing is motivated and underpinned by the Powell sacking.
Which is a very large pointer to the concerns this group has about the direction the club is going in surely? If not now when?
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
I disagree. As i mentioned at the start of this thread, the trust would be a lot stronger if the majority of the names were involved as well and may have increased their credibility and membership.
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
What you are really saying then is mind your own business, this is for the trust not you. But as Charlton supporters it is our business.
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Who exactly are you representing because this Charlton fan of fifty two years is happy with Roland. Why was this particular committee not formed when the last owners were in Power? There was no information coming out of the Club then. I also think it seriously undermines the Supporters Trust.
I think after Powell was sacked, it has all got a bit hysterical. There is no sign that we are going to be a feeder club for Standard Liege. If you believe some people Roland taking us over has saved us from Administration. He is spending a lot of money on the pitch, and is bringing down the debt in the Club, all good so far.
I didn't agree with selling two of our best players in Kermy and Stephens and I would have given Powell until the end of the season. But I can see why he did what he did.
I am going to give Roland and his regime some time to see what unfolds in the next year or two.
I would also be interested to know this
Because the whole thing is motivated and underpinned by the Powell sacking.
I agree matters have come to a head at this time because of the change of manager. I don't agree that seeking more communication is an attempt to restore Chris Powell as the manager. If people feel moved to action because their misgivings have been crystallised by the change of manager, what's wrong with that?
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
What you are really saying then is mind your own business, this is for the trust not you. But as Charlton supporters it is our business.
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Who exactly are you representing because this Charlton fan of fifty two years is happy with Roland. Why was this particular committee not formed when the last owners were in Power? There was no information coming out of the Club then. I also think it seriously undermines the Supporters Trust.
I think after Powell was sacked, it has all got a bit hysterical. There is no sign that we are going to be a feeder club for Standard Liege. If you believe some people Roland taking us over has saved us from Administration. He is spending a lot of money on the pitch, and is bringing down the debt in the Club, all good so far.
I didn't agree with selling two of our best players in Kermy and Stephens and I would have given Powell until the end of the season. But I can see why he did what he did.
I am going to give Roland and his regime some time to see what unfolds in the next year or two.
I would also be interested to know this
Because the whole thing is motivated and underpinned by the Powell sacking.
Which is a very large pointer to the concerns this group has about the direction the club is going in surely? If not now when?
When there is genuine evidence that the new owner has done something wrong. He sacked a manager who won 6 league games all season. Hardly crime of the century.
He sold a striker who refused to play a game to avoid an automatic contract extension and subsequently refused a contract extension. Hardly a capital offence.
He sold a midfielder who was never going to sign a new contract. Hardly genocide.
He is implementing a business model that he believes in. He thinks it will bring us stability and success. Yes its different, but that doesn't make him the devil.
None of the 20 speak for me and I suspect you will find yourselves to be a vocal minority at best.
The reality is if this group had gone through the trust structure and the same names were attached, many people on here would now be saying that the group had taken control of the trust and the criticism would be just the same, the existing trust board has been undermined.
What you are really saying then is mind your own business, this is for the trust not you. But as Charlton supporters it is our business.
The group includes four former directors, as well as Kevin Nolan - someone who has reported virtually every match for the last 30 years. It is far too broad to sustain the criticism that it comprises people harbouring a grudge or on some kind of ego trip, which is exactly why it needed to be so broad. It may also be worth considering the extent of the personal connections these people have collectively across the club before dismissing their concern that something is wrong.
Who exactly are you representing because this Charlton fan of fifty two years is happy with Roland. Why was this particular committee not formed when the last owners were in Power? There was no information coming out of the Club then. I also think it seriously undermines the Supporters Trust.
I think after Powell was sacked, it has all got a bit hysterical. There is no sign that we are going to be a feeder club for Standard Liege. If you believe some people Roland taking us over has saved us from Administration. He is spending a lot of money on the pitch, and is bringing down the debt in the Club, all good so far.
I didn't agree with selling two of our best players in Kermy and Stephens and I would have given Powell until the end of the season. But I can see why he did what he did.
I am going to give Roland and his regime some time to see what unfolds in the next year or two.
I would also be interested to know this
Because the whole thing is motivated and underpinned by the Powell sacking.
Which is a very large pointer to the concerns this group has about the direction the club is going in surely? If not now when?
When there is genuine evidence that the new owner has done something wrong. He sacked a manager who won 6 league games all season. Hardly crime of the century.
He sold a striker who refused to play a game to avoid an automatic contract extension and subsequently refused a contract extension. Hardly a capital offence.
He sold a midfielder who was never going to sign a new contract. Hardly genocide.
He is implementing a business model that he believes in. He thinks it will bring us stability and success. Yes its different, but that doesn't make him the devil.
None of the 20 speak for me and I suspect you will find yourselfs a vocal m
There are many on here that think people are motivated to be confrontational because they harbour a sense of bitterness for whatever reason.
Isn't it ironic that the only confrontation that seems to have happened thus far has not come from the Fans Forum, not come from the Trust, not come from the supporters group. The confrontation I am referring to was when Katrien said there was something insulting when VIP members met, and someone asked about the £4 mil 'relegation' clause as it were.
I personally don't have a problem about how representative the VIP members are, or if they have sought a mandate, or if they were asking through a more formal channel. There are several reports on Charlton Life about the VIP meeting, and if people are looking for signs of confrontation, then those signs are in those reports.
Just for the record, and it is no secret anyway, I really don't like it that Chris Powell has been sacked. My way of dealing with it, especially after the rawness has settled, is to focus on the future. The result today, and results to come, and if we stay up. Then more broadly the standing of the club in the future and to what degree future results matter.
Clem you are bang on the money imo and I think it is a minority stance and its only got this credibilty due to the excellent work done by these people in the past
The question as to why now and why TJ and MS didn't warrant such a call to arms is equally important to be answered
Clem you are bang on the money imo and I think it is a minority stance and its only got this credibilty due to the excellent work done by these people in the past
The question as to why now and why TJ and MS didn't warrant such a call to arms is equally important to be answered
This question is the key one to me & hasn't yet been answered. Why now & not when the very future of the club was at risk under the previous clowns?
Clem you are bang on the money imo and I think it is a minority stance and its only got this credibilty due to the excellent work done by these people in the past
The question as to why now and why TJ and MS didn't warrant such a call to arms is equally important to be answered
This question is the key one to me & hasn't yet been answered. Why now & not when the very future of the club was at risk under the previous clowns?
Unless the new group have some inside information to hand which ultimately could be very damaging to our club and threaten our existence? Just a thought...If they have nothing then, although agree in principal with what they're trying to achieve, why not leave this to the CAST
But TJ owned more of the club than cash and cash was never ever going to be available
This is because the RD plan and way forward is away from the norm and has got people uncomfortable which I approve of wholrheartedly we should never be too happy with the custodians
But when RM said parky would be judged on results amd we ended up in the 3rd division where was the group
Its not about who's available its about who believes what and who thinks they know best
I have just started a new group. It's called the Fans And Real Trust Supporters.
So who wants to join FARTS ?
We are totally self elected by the way and some of us used to work for the club - myself included, but I wasn't sacked so have no grudge (Turnstiles in mid 80s in case you were wondering).
Colin Walshie's Spawn is Tour Operator, Creepy is on the door and MOG is Treasurer.
Slater and Jiminez's main goal for the club was to win matches and get promotion to the Premier League where they could cash out. While we all may have disagreed with the way they set about doing this, and the fact that when the money ran out their ability to achieve this became highly unlikely, their ultimate goal was aligned with ours - Charlton Athletic winning football matches to try and go as high up the leagues as possible.
The massive difference and the reason why we need to take action is that right now it appears that Roland's goals aren't solely about Charlton winning matches and going up the leagues. We're a cog, a bit part player, in his wider networks, and our success or failure as a club doesn't necessarily mean success or failure for the network. Is it possible that we could languish in League One for years but still be seen as a success in the network for example?
This is why in my opinion there is a stark difference between the two situations and why it is needed now more than before.
There are obviously fundamental differences of opinion. Confusion perhaps? But they say that confusion is a necessary pre-requisite for resolution. I hope that we can all keep talking with each other, without rancour or snide remarks. It's been very good so far. Unease is the word that I would use. Some supporters have already decided on whether RD is a good guy or bad guy. I'm meeting people who are happy that Chrissy has gone but still have doubts about where we are heading. There are many points of view flying about and the Trust is essential to make sense of it all and represent us. I still believe that there is also need for a broad based experienced political lobby. I personally don't think RD will be at all bothered what any of us think, it's just not the way his brain works. If he turns out to be the Messiah, hooray, the Trust carries on and the new guys aren't needed. If he's a very naughty boy though, then what? What would you want to see happen and who is most geared up to respond? I'm genuinely trying to think ahead, imagining different scenarios. I haven't made up my mind yet, there's not enough evidence, but don't we need to ready for all possibilities rather than set just one idea in stone at this moment?
He spent 12 mil buying us that ultimately needs us to win matches to safe guard that investment
Do not under play the fact yann couldve stayed by playing 1 more game and was offered a two year deal like jacko
Stephens powell said could go in oct 3 mths before RD joined
Did RD give powell Tudgay or did powell ask for him
Where is the evidence that RD and the shared player route between clubs won't assist in the club becoming cost neutral and enable us access to a european scouting system
With a coach in place who fully understands and buys into the DOF approach who's to say it won't work
Now unless someone has something more evidential then it is supposition
And if this evidence is there give it to the trust and allow them to run with it
I fully expect the bulk of any evidence to come out through VOTV and not be free evidence until those editions
This is about ego and power nothing else and people should not be duped into believing otherwise
Nobody seems to be trying to dupe anybody. All strands of opinion, and angles on the issue are being played out on this thread. There is no censorship, no arm twisting, nothing hidden, people are saying what they like from all positions in the Charlton Supporting spectrum. I don't believe anybody on this thread, even those I personally disagree with, have been writing from a position of duplicity. Most points raised have been debated in a pretty open way as far as I can see. I reckon people can work out for themselves if they are being duped or not, and they can react accordingly.
Problem is NLA, where is the evidence that it will work? I genuinely urge peeps to remain open minded at the moment. The Trust has to retain credibility with RD and that is a difficult path for them and I have faith in Barnie and Kevin to sort that out . I'm seeing the new group as a sort of Rapid Response Unit. I still believe that we need both. Time will tell, but we can still work together in the meantime :-) Plus apparently I'm buying the next round!
What happens when the club decide to move away from The Valley? Are the Trust not going to be able to challenge the club about that, and will we see another one of these groups formed?
well done to you all! this is great to read! just like the back to the valley campaign roland will not know what he is up against! we have all pulled together before and we will do it again! good luck guys and girls!
We don't know SA and to me that adds an elemant of excitement as well as trepidation but is that not why we go to football
Its important that all views are considered but not to the detriment of one group and I am yet to be told why this group feels this threat Is greater than murray and his dowie pardew parkinson risk or the total barn case that was TJ and slater
Hope the new group is humble enough to accept that its first move has been a misstep and that its second move therefore shows that it recognises this.
Hope that the Trust shows it has the resolve to stand up for itself and its democratic legitimacy.
The solution has been stated on here a number of times: new-group members join Trust; a Trust working group, including some from the new group, pursues the issue. Solidarity is recovered and strength achieved.
Comments
1, What power have you got?
2. Where did you get it from?
3. In whose interest do you exercise it?
4. To whom are you accountable?
5. How can we get rid of you?
Only democracy gives us that right. That is why no-one with power likes democracy
And that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it
Tony Benn (1925 - 2014)
Now i only see the exact opposite.
I don't agree that seeking more communication is an attempt to restore Chris Powell as the manager.
If people feel moved to action because their misgivings have been crystallised by the change of manager, what's wrong with that?
RD could justify the dismissal based on league postition and not have any qs to answer
We are bottom of the league its a results business
If this group have factual evidence to suggest that the way the future will pan out then put it out for all to hear
Or join forces with the trust and trust them to challenge on behalf of them
The trust members on this group can't seriously not believe its not damaging to the future of the trust or of its credibility
In fact I would hope the trust members on there are only there to keep your enemies close
He sold a striker who refused to play a game to avoid an automatic contract extension and subsequently refused a contract extension. Hardly a capital offence.
He sold a midfielder who was never going to sign a new contract. Hardly genocide.
He is implementing a business model that he believes in. He thinks it will bring us stability and success. Yes its different, but that doesn't make him the devil.
None of the 20 speak for me and I suspect you will find yourselves to be a vocal minority at best.
Isn't it ironic that the only confrontation that seems to have happened thus far has not come from the Fans Forum, not come from the Trust, not come from the supporters group. The confrontation I am referring to was when Katrien said there was something insulting when VIP members met, and someone asked about the £4 mil 'relegation' clause as it were.
I personally don't have a problem about how representative the VIP members are, or if they have sought a mandate, or if they were asking through a more formal channel. There are several reports on Charlton Life about the VIP meeting, and if people are looking for signs of confrontation, then those signs are in those reports.
Just for the record, and it is no secret anyway, I really don't like it that Chris Powell has been sacked. My way of dealing with it, especially after the rawness has settled, is to focus on the future. The result today, and results to come, and if we stay up. Then more broadly the standing of the club in the future and to what degree future results matter.
The question as to why now and why TJ and MS didn't warrant such a call to arms is equally important to be answered
This is because the RD plan and way forward is away from the norm and has got people uncomfortable which I approve of wholrheartedly we should never be too happy with the custodians
But when RM said parky would be judged on results amd we ended up in the 3rd division where was the group
Its not about who's available its about who believes what and who thinks they know best
So who wants to join FARTS ?
We are totally self elected by the way and some of us used to work for the club - myself included, but I wasn't sacked so have no grudge (Turnstiles in mid 80s in case you were wondering).
Colin Walshie's Spawn is Tour Operator, Creepy is on the door and MOG is Treasurer.
The massive difference and the reason why we need to take action is that right now it appears that Roland's goals aren't solely about Charlton winning matches and going up the leagues. We're a cog, a bit part player, in his wider networks, and our success or failure as a club doesn't necessarily mean success or failure for the network. Is it possible that we could languish in League One for years but still be seen as a success in the network for example?
This is why in my opinion there is a stark difference between the two situations and why it is needed now more than before.
He spent 12 mil buying us that ultimately needs us to win matches to safe guard that investment
Do not under play the fact yann couldve stayed by playing 1 more game and was offered a two year deal like jacko
Stephens powell said could go in oct 3 mths before RD joined
Did RD give powell Tudgay or did powell ask for him
Where is the evidence that RD and the shared player route between clubs won't assist in the club becoming cost neutral and enable us access to a european scouting system
With a coach in place who fully understands and buys into the DOF approach who's to say it won't work
Now unless someone has something more evidential then it is supposition
And if this evidence is there give it to the trust and allow them to run with it
I fully expect the bulk of any evidence to come out through VOTV and not be free evidence until those editions
This is about ego and power nothing else and people should not be duped into believing otherwise
I reckon people can work out for themselves if they are being duped or not, and they can react accordingly.
the most gratifying thing for me on this thread is the overwhelming support being granted to the trust
Maybe in an inadvertant way this new group will aid the trust in gaining momentum
Its important that all views are considered but not to the detriment of one group and I am yet to be told why this group feels this threat Is greater than murray and his dowie pardew parkinson risk or the total barn case that was TJ and slater
I personally would want to see this group in bedded in the heart and soul of the trust not as a seperate entity as it makes you question their motives
Hope that the Trust shows it has the resolve to stand up for itself and its democratic legitimacy.
The solution has been stated on here a number of times: new-group members join Trust; a Trust working group, including some from the new group, pursues the issue. Solidarity is recovered and strength achieved.