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The Running and Marathon Thread

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  • well done JB, you'll reap the rewards for that
  • Would love to do London someday. Do have two Bostons under my belt. My advice would be to take care of yourself, fuel yourself correctly, listen to your body and TAPER.
  • edited February 2014
    John-Boy well done on 20+ miles, not sure you need too many of them. I'd try some interval training to get your leg speed up. Find a stretch of road or path about a mile long without too many intersections and run above your normal pace in your normal running style (ie not lifting your knees) and time it. Then jog back and repeat 4-6 times, trying to target improved times. Make sure you are not over-striding. Also worth slipping in a shorter (500m) flat out but again not sprinting with knees raised but trying to move legs quicker. Also try gym cross training on the rowing machine or bike. Higher leg speed will make distances feel easier.
  • JohnBoyUK said:

    Well, I finally cracked 20 miles yesterday. I managed to stick to my 9:30 min/mile pace until Mile 16 when we came up through Maryon Wilson Park in Charlton. It dropped back to 9:36 by the time I'd got back to Welling via Plumstead Common, so would have been looking at a time of 4:11 for full distance. I'd settle for that now in Paris.

    Was surprised that yesterday's run took in 1,200ft of climbing in 20 miles where as Paris looks almost as flat as a pancake in comparison, around 250ft for the 26.2 so feeling even more confident now.

    I have to say the legs feel a little tender today and I really didnt want to get out of bed this morning but all reasonably good.

    Excellent work JohnBoy. Running 20 miles just seems ridiculous to me!
  • edited February 2014
    red_murph said:



    Excellent work JohnBoy. Running 20 miles just seems ridiculous to me!

    Trust me, the thought of running 20 miles seemed ridiculous to me until about 6 weeks ago when I first ran past 13.1 miles for the first time.

    Cheers for the tips peeps. I felt reasonably ok on Sunday afternoon but tiredness caught up with me on Monday afternoon and I was almost falling asleep at my desk so have taken it easy this week but am back out tonight for the first time since, so will be interesting to see how the legs feel. My quads only just came back to life this morning, they've been numb last two days.

    I managed to get out on my road bike for the first time last week too. 50 miles in 2hr 55mins at 17mph then done a nice slow 5 mile cool down. Ran 10 miles with a negative split the day after, so am really mixing the training up with long slow runs, speed sessions, hill reps etc. I've been doing intervals for the best part of three years on a regular basis and I've found them to be the most beneficial thing I've done.

  • As per HG, for 1st marathon, aiming at 4 hrs, I wouldn't do many more 20 milers. Maybe aim at 22 on w/e of 15 March, then taper for 3 weeks, so your w/e long run on 22nd is 14, then maybe 8 on 29th. Then nothing much the week of. Maybe a few miles once and then strides etc.

    You should probably drop to 14-16 this w/e.

    Don't over do it.
  • edited February 2014
    Have started running recently. Try to do 5k after work 2-3 times a week. Also do a few ParkRuns (5k race) on a Saturday morning. Find my time drops off significantly when running in the morning vs evening, presumably because I have a days fuel waiting to be used. Timings are roughly 23 mins (pm run) vs 27 mins (am). Any tips?
  • jamescafc said:

    Have started running recently. Try to do 5k after work 2-3 times a week. Also do a few ParkRuns (5k race) on a Saturday morning. Find my time drops off significantly when running in the morning vs evening, presumably because I have a days fuel waiting to be used. Timings are roughly 23 mins (pm run) vs 27 mins (am). Any tips?

    Park Runs are great & a great way to get started or use as speed work. You need to get some running gels as your body is crying out for energy to burn in the mornings. You can get these from any running shop & are about £1.50 a go.
  • Bought some from the triathlons show at the excel a few weeks back. Some pre / post race energy / protein bars too.

    How long before the race should I consume? Tried once (30 mins before) and had terrible stitch for much of race
  • edited February 2014
    jamescafc said:

    Have started running recently. Try to do 5k after work 2-3 times a week. Also do a few ParkRuns (5k race) on a Saturday morning. Find my time drops off significantly when running in the morning vs evening, presumably because I have a days fuel waiting to be used. Timings are roughly 23 mins (pm run) vs 27 mins (am). Any tips?

    A simple simple solution for this.

    Porridge. 90mins - 2hrs beforehand for me.

    If that means I have to get up at 7am on a Sunday for a 8:30am club run, then it has to be done. Yes, no one likes getting up early.

    But tbh, I really wouldnt have thought for a morning 5k you'd need anything significant. I have run 10k pretty much near to PB pace and have run 9-10 miles with just a drink for company before breakfast without issue. I swear by using High 5 4:1 in my water bottle. It's my rocket fuel. I can run and ride forever with that stuff. The shop linked is the cheapest you'll find it. The citrus one tastes pretty good too. One tub lasts me about 6-7 weeks but I train 5-6 days a week at times so at £21.49 a pop its good value.

    I'm sick of the sight of them at the moment but Jelly Babies are great for the fuel levels on longer runs. I wouldnt use them on a normal training run but from experience now, if I'm running anything longer than half marathon distance and am looking for a decent time, I'd pop one in every mile, just to keep the levels topped up.



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  • JohnBoyUK said:

    jamescafc said:

    Have started running recently. Try to do 5k after work 2-3 times a week. Also do a few ParkRuns (5k race) on a Saturday morning. Find my time drops off significantly when running in the morning vs evening, presumably because I have a days fuel waiting to be used. Timings are roughly 23 mins (pm run) vs 27 mins (am). Any tips?

    A simple simple solution for this.

    Porridge. 90mins - 2hrs beforehand for me.

    If that means I have to get up at 7am on a Sunday for a 8:30am club run, then it has to be done. Yes, no one likes getting up early.

    But tbh, I really wouldnt have thought for a morning 5k you'd need anything significant. I have run 10k pretty much near to PB pace and have run 9-10 miles with just a drink for company before breakfast without issue. I swear by using High 5 4:1 in my water bottle. It's my rocket fuel. I can run and ride forever with that stuff. The shop linked is the cheapest you'll find it. The citrus one tastes pretty good too.

    I'm sick of the sight of them at the moment but Jelly Babies are great for the fuel levels on longer runs. I wouldnt use them on a normal training run but from experience now, if I'm running anything longer than half marathon distance and am looking for a decent time, I'd pop one in every mile, just to keep the levels topped up.



    This.
    Porridge with bananas and honey. I like mine runny otherwise I find it's heavy in the stomach for some time.

  • jamescafc said:

    Bought some from the triathlons show at the excel a few weeks back. Some pre / post race energy / protein bars too.

    How long before the race should I consume? Tried once (30 mins before) and had terrible stitch for much of race

    A gel only lasts 15-20 mins max. So I wouldnt take it beforehand. Your metabolism will burn the energy from the gel before you've even started your race. So if you're looking at 23 mins or so, take it just after your first mile.
  • jamescafc said:

    Have started running recently. Try to do 5k after work 2-3 times a week. Also do a few ParkRuns (5k race) on a Saturday morning. Find my time drops off significantly when running in the morning vs evening, presumably because I have a days fuel waiting to be used. Timings are roughly 23 mins (pm run) vs 27 mins (am). Any tips?

    Tbh you shouldn't really need gels to get you through a 5k at all but if they help you go for it (as with lots of endurance sports an awful lot is in the mind as well so maybe they serve as a mental pick you up more than anything).

    You have my sympathy re:morning versus evening running. When I was training properly I could comfortably hold my own in a sub 3:15 marathon training group in the evening but come race days with a 9:30-10:00am start my times were nowhere near those who I used to run alongside only a week or two before. Done all the getting up early and making sure I was fuelling, hydrated, warmed up, etc but eventually just accepted that mornings were not my time of day for PB's.

    Bodies are just weird things...some weirder than others tbf.
  • Yeah it is so frustrating because I run alone during the week and do the park runs with a group of pals. My times during the week are better than theirs, albeit but a few mins, but when it comes do race day they seem to have the edge.

    @JohnBoyUK - I've got the buzz now, entered a few 10kms races for May and will take things from there. Cut out booze too. To run 5-6 days a week you must have a pretty strict diet regime. Been reading up a fair bit about this but any tips would be great. Work long hours up town so the temptation for post work beers/ take-away is tough to resist.
  • jamescafc said:

    @JohnBoyUK - I've got the buzz now, entered a few 10kms races for May and will take things from there. Cut out booze too. To run 5-6 days a week you must have a pretty strict diet regime. Been reading up a fair bit about this but any tips would be great. Work long hours up town so the temptation for post work beers/ take-away is tough to resist.

    Hmm, I found myself writing an essay in response, I'll keep it simple...

    Diet-wise, just eat a balanced diet. You really dont need anything special. Use My Fitness Pal to log your diet for a few weeks so you can see what works and what doesnt. MFP suggests 50% carbs, 30% fat, 20% protein. My diet tends to be more 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat now after some tinkering. It was tricky to get enough protein in my diet to start with but with some experimentation, I've found something that works for me. Skimmed Chocolate milkshake straight after a session then I'll eat either scrambled egg-on-toast or beans-on-toast at around 10pm (am never in bed before 11:30pm, normally around midnight!)

    Depending on your circumstances, pre-work and during-work sessions are useful. I've been known to set the alarm for 5:30am to run 10k before work if I know I'm out that evening or will be working late. I regularly take my kit in to work and run in my lunch hour (I'm fortunate I've got flexi-time and can get away with 60-90 mins training and then still have enough time for a shower and eating). But likewise, as a fat burner, if thats what you're aiming at, double-sessions are good. Run early and run late. Its about making time work for you.

    As for cutting the booze out, thats a personal thing. I've done it (not had a drop since 21st Dec) but the veteran marathon runners at my club and the ex-pro Cyclists I ride with all think I'm bonkers. They say there's no need to if you drink in moderation but from where I was coming from, its when you get the random 4:30pm email of "come on, rubbish day, lets go pub" when you've got a training session scheduled is where it gets me. I end up feeling guilty, I then try and make up for it the next day and if you're feeling sh*t, its not going to happen, is it? I've removed the temptation and I've not compromised my training.

    But of course, what may work for me may not work for some one else. Its just about finding a solution that works for you. Some of my friends call me dedicated. My best-mate (who is my Personal Trainer) says I'm bordering on obsessive. I ran half distance last Sunday and within an hour of finishing I was in the Gym doing a weights session. No idea where he gets this idea I'm obsessed from!!!

    Set yourself some targets (as you've done in your 10k races) and see where it takes you. Dont put yourself under too much pressure and enjoy it.

    Ooops, another essay!
  • jamescafc said:

    Yeah it is so frustrating because I run alone during the week and do the park runs with a group of pals. My times during the week are better than theirs, albeit but a few mins, but when it comes do race day they seem to have the edge.

    @JohnBoyUK - I've got the buzz now, entered a few 10kms races for May and will take things from there. Cut out booze too. To run 5-6 days a week you must have a pretty strict diet regime. Been reading up a fair bit about this but any tips would be great. Work long hours up town so the temptation for post work beers/ take-away is tough to resist.

    Couple of points...firstly you're new to racing so try not to get too hung up on times and beating your mates if you can (I know, I know...it's a man thing). Plenty of time yet to get the miles in and get some experience and idea of pacing, race strategy, terrain, etc.

    Your mates are beating you over 5k but there's no guarantee they would do the same over 10k, 10 miles, etc. Maybe you just haven't found 'your' distance yet?

    Maybe your just a naturally conservative runner, even if you don't realise it? I am for certain. This is great if you want to get around a marathon with the least possible pain and grief but unlikely to get you a PB every time you start a race. Even when I consciously pushed things well out of my normal comfort zone, I always found enough left to have a blast in the last kilometre or two.

    Watching the cross country skiers the other day brought it back into focus again as they left nothing in the course and I often used to see training partners flat on their back at the finish when I still had plenty left in the tank. They were never going to win the race and neither was I so maybe subconsciously our minds step in sometimes and put the brakes on?
  • jamescafc said:

    Yeah it is so frustrating because I run alone during the week and do the park runs with a group of pals. My times during the week are better than theirs, albeit but a few mins, but when it comes do race day they seem to have the edge.

    @JohnBoyUK - I've got the buzz now, entered a few 10kms races for May and will take things from there. Cut out booze too. To run 5-6 days a week you must have a pretty strict diet regime. Been reading up a fair bit about this but any tips would be great. Work long hours up town so the temptation for post work beers/ take-away is tough to resist.

    Have you considered joining a running club to run with others? A good entry one would be any of the Nike stores as they all have running nights, albeit each store will do it on different nights. It's free and for all levels as well so don't worry if you think you'll be running with the elite.

    On another note we all had to start somewhere with our distances and over time, if you keep things up, you'll find 10km literally a walk in the park and you'll know your body well in terms of diet and drink restrictions.

    Good luck with your running James! See you at a half or full marathon one day!
  • Thanks all for the feedback. Bit obsessive when it comes to stats, so if I don't see a continuous improvement in performance it drives me nuts. The run at the weekend is through Danson Park in Bexley so naturally a bit slower due to the sodden grass, rather than my mid-week runs when it's on the streets.

    Few of the guys there do 5km in 17 mins - one day!!!!
  • Unlikely I know but don't make the same mistake as I did and do the Atlanta marathon as your first one...elevation guide attached, literally couldn't walk for 3 days after....damn hills:

    image
  • I'm gradually trying to build up to a 10K race. Doing couch to 5K and currently up to 3.5K, running 3-4 times a week.

    A couple of things:

    I seem to get seriously out of breath after about 3 minutes, much more than I'm out of breath iafter 15 or 20. Is this usual?

    Really stupd question. What's the best way of carrying liquid around with you? I end up clasping a bottle of water in my hand the whole way through, whcih can't be optimal!
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  • edited February 2014
    Personally I've never taken gels and can't believe they make a difference for anything less than 10 miles.
    With regard to fuel before/during morning runs I have a black coffee and that's all, even for 24 mile run Sunday before last.
    For a race I'll also have porridge/banana (+maple syrup) 2.5 to 3hrs before the start.
    After a run will usually have a pint of milk and a banana asap, then egg/beans/toast if at home.
    Even in a upward cycle of performance then will be periods where you flatline.
    Mix your runs up a bit, not all at the same pace - hard one day, easy the next etc.
    As for alcohol just don't go over the top, best try to cut-out the take-aways though!

    Finally I recommend using www.fetcheveryone.com to do the stats for you.
  • Hey Jints, the out of breath thing after a couple of minutes is something I used to get all the time....especially playing Sunday football.....power through it though. I think that's where the term 'getting a second wind comes from'!

    As you run more that feeling will subside, when I first started running seriously 2 years ago getting to 3 miles was a major goal and it was tough getting around, now 5 and 6 miles are the easy runs and I think nothing of running 10 miles on a weekend jog which is crazy considering how unfit I was.

    Keep at it!
  • A quick plug for the Plumstead Runners at this point :)
    jamescafc said:

    Thanks all for the feedback. Bit obsessive when it comes to stats, so if I don't see a continuous improvement in performance it drives me nuts. The run at the weekend is through Danson Park in Bexley so naturally a bit slower due to the sodden grass, rather than my mid-week runs when it's on the streets.

    Few of the guys there do 5km in 17 mins - one day!!!!

    Some of the Park Run guys at Danson Park are seriously quick. They make the quickest guys at my club look scarily slow but thats what its all about. Good to have those guys there to help inspire us on to the next level. I saw in one of the

    Haha, nothing quite like looking at stats. The hours I've spent looking at Garmin Connect...

    image

    ...then plug it into Excel and come up with some graphs...

    image

    Obsessive? Me? Ha. And then I started writing my blog. See, I really do have too much time on my hands...
  • Jints said:

    I'm gradually trying to build up to a 10K race. Doing couch to 5K and currently up to 3.5K, running 3-4 times a week.

    A couple of things:

    I seem to get seriously out of breath after about 3 minutes, much more than I'm out of breath iafter 15 or 20. Is this usual?

    Really stupd question. What's the best way of carrying liquid around with you? I end up clasping a bottle of water in my hand the whole way through, whcih can't be optimal!

    Same for me jints, even now...

    Check out my run from yesterday lunchtime >> http://connect.garmin.com/activity/451292889

    Look at the HR. Every single run I do, my HR shoots up first half a mile then it settles back down again. I'm told this is normal. Thus the reason when actual racing a full pelt, you should do a warm up first, where as on a training run, you really should start off slowly and then build up.

    As for water, I carry a bottle belt around my waist. I dont like running with anything in my hands.

  • Did Danson park run for the first time Saturday - were any of you guys there too? Usually do Bromley but Norman park's a swamp at the mo.
  • Thanks guys, that's reassuring.

    I'm genuinely enjoying running. It's difficult to get up at 5.30 during the week to get a run in before work but I'm starting to get into the habit of it and get a genuine buzz once its finished.
  • edited February 2014
    JohnBoy - if you're out running in that area at lunchtime, you should consider running with the Ravens, 13:10 every lunchtime NE end of Tower Bridge.
    It's the 5k handicap race tomorrow, all welcome, good introduction:
    http://www.ravensrunnerslondon.org.uk/5k-Handicap.html

    Jints - don't bother taking a drink with you unless it's hot weather, the important thing is make sure you drink regularly after and in general.
  • Jints said:

    Thanks guys, that's reassuring.

    I'm genuinely enjoying running. It's difficult to get up at 5.30 during the week to get a run in before work but I'm starting to get into the habit of it and get a genuine buzz once its finished.

    Agree with the others that being out of breath at the start then settling down is perfectly normal. In fact I'd take it as encouraging news because in my experience the fitter you get the 'relatively' harder the first few miles you do seem to become. During marathon training I can be comfortably completing 15-20 miles but at the start it feels like I'll be lucky to make it to the end of the road. As I said physiology is a weird thing...
  • Jints said:

    I'm gradually trying to build up to a 10K race. Doing couch to 5K and currently up to 3.5K, running 3-4 times a week.

    A couple of things:

    I seem to get seriously out of breath after about 3 minutes, much more than I'm out of breath iafter 15 or 20. Is this usual?

    Really stupd question. What's the best way of carrying liquid around with you? I end up clasping a bottle of water in my hand the whole way through, whcih can't be optimal!

    ...oh yeah in terms of carrying liquid I've never got on with belts as found them banging on my backside for miles very annoying (ooh er matron) so just use something like this which is easier to carry but you can't bin 'em like a bottle of Gatorade or whatever.

    surfdome.com/Ronhill_Fitness_-_Ronhill_Wrist_Bottle_Fitness_Accessory_-_Clear/Black-113997?_$ja=tsid:39151%7cprd%3a113997%7ccat%3aFitness+Equipment&utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE&utm_keyword=&adtype=pla&istCompanyId=6eb6b8f6-7dcb-4576-851b-e1dff2ebaf99&istItemId=xwxwpiwqq&istBid=tztx&_$$ja=cgid:7811863872|tsid:13319|cid:143392632|lid:18283950120|nw:g|crid:28855971432|rnd:1532729241196732618|dvc:m|adp:1o4|bku:1&gclid=CL3-7a2c6rwCFQKWtAod_ScA-w
  • Can anyone recommend a decent running watch?

    Currently use MapMyRun but the GPS has been a bit hit and miss of late.

    Just want something to track my time, route etc that I can upload to a database online.
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