Safe Standing
Comments
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I read that a Liverpool fan group including representatives of the families of those who dies in the Hillsborough disaster had told Liverpool they had no objection to safe standing.JiMMy 85 said:Heard a discussion about this on 5 Live last week. They spoke to a Hillsborough Justice spokesperson, who unsurprisingly said they're very much against the idea. But I don't understand why - they've spent years trying to prove that standing, alcohol and fans were not the main guilty factors in the tragedy. And now that's been agreed, they're still against terracing (even though it'll be far safer than the old style terraces anyway?). Seems really odd and I'll-thought out to me but I may be missing something.
I guess there are more than one fan group and different views among the families.
I believe that if someone read into the details of safe standing they would struggle to find any objection. In fact it is found to be safer than an area of seating where the fans stand up anyway due to the rails in the rail seating.
I've been saying for a while now the club should be offering to pioneer this. The north lower is perfect for it.3 -
All-seater stadiums are safer than standing ones.JiMMy 85 said:Heard a discussion about this on 5 Live last week. They spoke to a Hillsborough Justice spokesperson, who unsurprisingly said they're very much against the idea. But I don't understand why - they've spent years trying to prove that standing, alcohol and fans were not the main factors in the tragedy. And now that's been agreed, they're still against terracing (even though it'll be far safer than the old style terraces anyway?). Seems really odd and ill-thought out to me, but I may be missing something.
Standing may not have been a main factor but it still was a factor.0 -
All-seater stadiums are safer than standing ones if people are sitting down.SELR_addicks said:
All-seater stadiums are safer than standing ones.JiMMy 85 said:Heard a discussion about this on 5 Live last week. They spoke to a Hillsborough Justice spokesperson, who unsurprisingly said they're very much against the idea. But I don't understand why - they've spent years trying to prove that standing, alcohol and fans were not the main factors in the tragedy. And now that's been agreed, they're still against terracing (even though it'll be far safer than the old style terraces anyway?). Seems really odd and ill-thought out to me, but I may be missing something.
Standing may not have been a main factor but it still was a factor.
All-seater stadiums are more dangerous if people are standing up. (ie they are often more dangerous).
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http://www.castrust.org/2017/08/liverpool-fans-vote-in-favour-of-safe-standing/
Starting to seem pretty much inevitable that standing at football matches will be returning en masse sooner rather than later, great news in my opinion.
I reckon the North Lower will have rail seating installed within 5 years.4 -
They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
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Plenty of elbow room there.Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
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Seating for our fans at Exeter.0
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To be honest, apart from lack of leg room, I'm perfectly happy sitting, in fact I think I prefer it. It may be an age thing too.1
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So, when your sitting, you'll have a dirty great big bar in the way?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
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It would be safer still to ban spectators completely from watching football matches, however the precautions have to be reasonable and proportionate - I don't think anyone who read the facts around the new breed of safe standing infrastructure would think there was much of a risk.SELR_addicks said:
All-seater stadiums are safer than standing ones.JiMMy 85 said:Heard a discussion about this on 5 Live last week. They spoke to a Hillsborough Justice spokesperson, who unsurprisingly said they're very much against the idea. But I don't understand why - they've spent years trying to prove that standing, alcohol and fans were not the main factors in the tragedy. And now that's been agreed, they're still against terracing (even though it'll be far safer than the old style terraces anyway?). Seems really odd and ill-thought out to me, but I may be missing something.
Standing may not have been a main factor but it still was a factor.0 - Sponsored links:
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if your going to stand what is the point of having a chair there?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
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It's the new spurs stadium. You'll want to take it in turns to lie across them and sleepKarim_myBagheri said:
if your going to stand what is the point of having a chair there?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
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its weird that you say that as I've only ever seen people (spurs fans) lying across seats to sleep at a game and that was at white hart lane.McBobbin said:
It's the new spurs stadium. You'll want to take it in turns to lie across them and sleepKarim_myBagheri said:
if your going to stand what is the point of having a chair there?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
is that common knowledge that fans do that at spurs games?0 -
Not just one bar, there would be one on each row so I imagine that they would make something that looks more like a wall than a bar. Having said that as most people are going to stand in the safe standing area the bar(s) would be the lease of your troubles. I just see the seat as a half-time rest. It also ensures that (if policed) there will only be one fan in each seat width area which should solve some of the problems of yesteryear.guinnessaddick said:
So, when your sitting, you'll have a dirty great big bar in the way?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
Having said all that I wouldn't want them at Charlton as we don't play in blue!0 -
I believe they have to install seats as part of UEFA regulations and competitions in which you still aren't allowed safe standing.1
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78% of Charlton supporters who felt they had sufficient information to express an opinion for or against were in favour of the introduction of a safe standing area at The Valley:
standing/">https://castrust.org/2017/10/charlton-fans-support-safe-standing/3 -
There will be a bar in the way but no one will sit on the chairs regardless of if it's an all seater FIFA game. Similar to standing in seated areas.
The seats come in more colours than blue!
All would be resolved if they just bought back standing!0 -
What?Friend Or Defoe said:There will be a bar in the way but no one will sit on the chairs regardless of if it's an all seater FIFA game. Similar to standing in seated areas.
The seats come in more colours than blue!
All would be resolved if they just brought back standing!0 -
Do I have to quote the posts where people asked me various questions or are you able to work it out for yourself?PopIcon said:
What?Friend Or Defoe said:There will be a bar in the way but no one will sit on the chairs regardless of if it's an all seater FIFA game. Similar to standing in seated areas.
The seats come in more colours than blue!
All would be resolved if they just brought back standing!
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I've stood and sat at grounds varying in capacity from 2000 to 90000 over 30+ years of attending football matches.
The notion of "safe standing" is only credible where there is no possibility of reaching capacity or where there are designed in buffer zones to which people can exit rapidly if needed. As soon as a standing zone passes the point where each and every person there present can move about freely as required, safety is critically compromised. Whether that maximum number is higher than could be legitimately accommodated on seats in the same stand/terrace, depends on the layout, exits, etc specifics of each individual location.
Admittedly attendances recently at The Valley have been so poor that there may seem to be little risk in reducing the maximum capacity by configuring, say the lower north, for "safe-standing".
The misty eyed reactionaries who rue the imposition of all seater stadia and insist quite wrongly on standing at all games, will never see a return to the huge ever moving throng of bodies on a vast terrace, for which they are so nostalgic. They never got crushed against a railing or up against the front or sides of such a 'kop', nor fell under a surging mass, or their recollection would be different.
Safety in such a facility is predicated on there being no reasonable chance of a crush - I've not heard or read a single treatise in favour of standing that wasn't dreamily nostalgic for exactly that scenario. If safe-standing areas are to begin appearing at significant numbers of larger, higher division football grounds, they will not manifest themselves as the vast seething kops of 30+ years ago. The backwards lookers will find indeed that nostalgia is nowhere nearly as good as it used to be.
Football clubs won't entertain any notion of reducing their capacities below what they can routinely fill without such changes.
The balance might be nudged a fraction towards "safe standing" provision if the football authorities ever dare to enforce more than lip service as regards wholesale standing in seated areas - I'm looking at you travelling Mancs.
At the Valley a SSA would most likely resemble the dreadful old Bear Mountain at London Zoo - a desolate mound populated by a few overweight dismal grunting souls, pacing relentlessly in their confusion and distress.
The 'elf'n'safety nazis might get the blame but hard nosed business arithmetic will keep this retrograde notion as a trivial aside in 21st century upper tier football.1 -
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
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I'm too young to be a nostalgic backwards looker.
I'm all for it. Think the atmosphere would improve greatly, small increase in capacity. There is no reduction in safety and no chance of a crush as it is one person to every seat. Safe standing is infact found to be considerably safer than standing in an all seater area as it's designed for that purpose. It's used commonly in Europe and works well.
We should really be pushing this in my view and I'm pleased it's on the trust's agenda. I hope it's something they'll be pushing when the new owners come in!2 -
To be fair I haven't got a clue what you're going on about either !Friend Or Defoe said:
Do I have to quote the posts where people asked me various questions or are you able to work it out for yourself?PopIcon said:
What?Friend Or Defoe said:There will be a bar in the way but no one will sit on the chairs regardless of if it's an all seater FIFA game. Similar to standing in seated areas.
The seats come in more colours than blue!
All would be resolved if they just brought back standing!1 -
Not correct.Dansk_Red said:
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
If they stayed in The Championship for more than 3 seasons it could become a problem but they are hopeful that the law will have changed by that time anyway.0 -
Are their any MPs who are supporting a change in the law to clear the way for safe standing ?castrust said:
Not correct.Dansk_Red said:
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
If they stayed in The Championship for more than 3 seasons it could become a problem but they are hopeful that the law will have changed by that time anyway.0 -
Did you just double Having Said That? Now I don't know what to believe.kings hill addick said:
Not just one bar, there would be one on each row so I imagine that they would make something that looks more like a wall than a bar. Having said that as most people are going to stand in the safe standing area the bar(s) would be the lease of your troubles. I just see the seat as a half-time rest. It also ensures that (if policed) there will only be one fan in each seat width area which should solve some of the problems of yesteryear.guinnessaddick said:
So, when your sitting, you'll have a dirty great big bar in the way?Friend Or Defoe said:They're trailing it at the new Spurs stadium. I'll be surprised if we don't see it within 5 years.
Having said all that I wouldn't want them at Charlton as we don't play in blue!
https://youtu.be/Pgd2w0SQEYI?t=6s 0 -
Why pay to have the seats installed if they are not required to use them?castrust said:
Not correct.Dansk_Red said:
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
If they stayed in The Championship for more than 3 seasons it could become a problem but they are hopeful that the law will have changed by that time anyway.0 -
So you can sit down and pour a refreshing cup of tea from your flask in comfort and safety.Dansk_Red said:
Why pay to have the seats installed if they are not required to use them?castrust said:
Not correct.Dansk_Red said:
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
If they stayed in The Championship for more than 3 seasons it could become a problem but they are hopeful that the law will have changed by that time anyway.1 -
In theory you stand when allowed to and then sit when not (Irvin European) games.Dansk_Red said:
Why pay to have the seats installed if they are not required to use them?castrust said:
Not correct.Dansk_Red said:
They will not be allowed to use it in the standing mode, if they get promoted to the championship without a change in the law.Callumcafc said:
If they stayed in The Championship for more than 3 seasons it could become a problem but they are hopeful that the law will have changed by that time anyway.
In reality people will just stand as they do now in seated areas.
It will be safer and no reserved seats make it easy to with friends/away from the twat with the flare or racist views.
Celtic have done it and the world hasn't collapsed.1
