Surprised to be honest with the amount of people that'd support a move. It's just my personal opinion of course but it'll take the soul out of Charlton for me. I look at what's happened to Cardiff and it's nothing short of disgusting. I'd much rather we be in the Championship than Premier League at the cost of changing our ground, our kit and even our nickname just to be in the big time and for some randomer in Vietnam to know who Charlton are. The idea of prostituting ourselves to be lucrative to foreign nobodies who have no interest in the fans or traditions does not appeal to me.
I am being extremely hyperbole here, but that's where I see the game going and I don't want Charlton to be a part of it. I get what people are saying, it's needed and money talks. But the most fun I have at football grounds is visiting the older stadiums, Brentford, Fulham, Yeovil, Palace away. They're are all amazing to me because it's old and dingey. Can't even say I'm looking through rose-tinted glasses as I was born in 1993. I've done the Amex, been to the Emirates and it doesn't appeal to me. I suppose I can look at my local Eastbourne Borough for that sort of thing. I know what I say doesn't make sense from an objective point of view and we do need investment, it doesn't mean I have to like it if they make us move from The Valley in favour of a multi-purpose, soulless plastic bowl.
Back in the Glikstein days I used to stand in the covered end on rainy days and wonder if we would ever have a seated Valley. It was a bit like a dream. Then at Palace and Upton Park we all just wanted to be back at the Valley no matter what the ground looked like and to be sure it was a bit of a mess when we finally returned. My Grandad supported us when we went briefly to Catford and I am sure I will support Charlton if ever we were transplanted to the peninsula but why? My dream has come true. The Valley is now a lovely ground, unpretentious. We will never be an Arsenal and it seems silly to think we would ever reach the Champions League. Kevin Ayers used to say, 'Know who you are and be there.' Wise words we should take heed of.
I met Michael Glikstein when we in the prem, his biggest regret (apart from feeling he was hated by CAFC fans) was not having the money to spend to take us on to the next level, if this is the chance, we should take it IMHIO. I cant see a sustainable business case that says staying at the Valley is the thing to do, other than the tugs on the heart strings I am all for it, if it happens, though I know it is far from certain.
Back in the Glikstein days I used to stand in the covered end on rainy days and wonder if we would ever have a seated Valley. It was a bit like a dream. Then at Palace and Upton Park we all just wanted to be back at the Valley no matter what the ground looked like and to be sure it was a bit of a mess when we finally returned. My Grandad supported us when we went briefly to Catford and I am sure I will support Charlton if ever we were transplanted to the peninsula but why? My dream has come true. The Valley is now a lovely ground, unpretentious. We will never be an Arsenal and it seems silly to think we would ever reach the Champions League. Kevin Ayers used to say, 'Know who you are and be there.' Wise words we should take heed of.
I met Michael Glikstein when we in the prem, his biggest regret (apart from feeling he was hated by CAFC fans) was not having the money to spend to take us on to the next level, if this is the chance, we should take it IMHIO. I cant see a sustainable business case that says staying at the Valley is the thing to do, other than the tugs on the heart strings I am all for it, if it happens, though I know it is far from certain.
If you can create something inspirational for the future; it's easy to let go of the past...
since 1992, apart from a few years at the start, there was little that was inspirational about the Valley, apart from nostalgia and the feeling we had won the battle. The DER DER DER CLAP CLAP, 'atmosphere' has always left me a little cold and made me feel the ground is not what it was. The old East terrace roar (it really used to happen and it lifted those of us in the covered end too) was what passion was all about, not soulless mantras repeated ad nauseum by new fans. The soul of the Valley, or most other grounds if not all, is long gone.
To me ownership of the ground is the single biggest factor, without it the future of the whole club is incredibly vulnerable, much more so then it is now. You only have to look at the lessons learnt from Coventry especially in terms of no revenue from anything other then a percentage of the gate, plus huge hike in prices for parking, and all the other match day expenses.
Coventry, close to Birmingham (that is the best thing you can say about it, which is a bit weak) compared to a club in London, next to Canary Wharf. I cant quite see the likeness.
Well, as I have said, I'm open too. I'm just a bit more sceptical than many here about the actual benefits. Of course its a long way down the line too, but I will try and take a leaf out of Henry's book. He has made an excellent checklist against which to evaluate the business plan of any new owners. Something similar can be done with the stay/move issue.
So here's my list of test questions, all suggestions for improvement welcome:
Staying
What extra seating, executive boxes and entertainment can be built into the Valley? What is the development cost of such work? What is the expected extra revenue? - in this League/In the FAPL? What is the annual running cost?
Moving
What seating, executive boxes and entertainment is planned? What is the forecast revenue - in this League/In the FAPL What is the expected rental and maintenance cost? What new benefits - such as a Safe Standing area- are offered What car parking will be available, at what expected cost?
Anyone got anything to add to the questions?
Good questions.
My major concern would be the design of any new stadium as I would only like to move if it was to a football stadium and not an all purpose with a running track.
Spammers have the running track gigs hanging around their necks, no need for another one in London.
Roger Alwen and co, succeeded by Murray and Simons, saw us through from the late 80s into the new century.
The current regime is shelling out to keep us afloat.
Over the years we've hardly been short of benefactors, have we ? So what is the lure of football ownership ? Of the 12 original league clubs in 1888, 11 are still active - that surely couldn't be said of many other businesses existing 125 years ago.
So what's new ? Is it just that forums (fora, Henry ?) like this were not around before .... ?
Roger Alwen and co, succeeded by Murray and Simons, saw us through from the late 80s into the new century.
The current regime is shelling out to keep us afloat.
Over the years we've hardly been short of benefactors, have we ? So what is the lure of football ownership ? Of the 12 original league clubs in 1888, 11 are still active - that surely couldn't be said of many other businesses existing 125 years ago.
So what's new ? Is it just that forums (fora, Henry ?) like this were not around before .... ?
Wise words GHF this forum is not doing my ulcer any good .
If you can create something inspirational for the future; it's easy to let go of the past...
since 1992, apart from a few years at the start, there was little that was inspirational about the Valley, apart from nostalgia and the feeling we had won the battle. The DER DER DER CLAP CLAP, 'atmosphere' has always left me a little cold and made me feel the ground is not what it was. The old East terrace roar (it really used to happen and it lifted those of us in the covered end too) was what passion was all about, not soulless mantras repeated ad nauseum by new fans. The soul of the Valley, or most other grounds if not all, is long gone.
The old East Terrace Roar? When? Not in the Steve Dowman era, that's for sure. 3000 people standing listlessly around, before they finally gave up and closed it off...come on, memory plays tricks on us.
I know the memory can play tricks, but in the late 70's it was there when it was needed. prior to the move to CP it was not. we seem to be back to the same place we were in before the Selhurst years, the lethargy of the early 80's when we nearly went under.
To me ownership of the ground is the single biggest factor, without it the future of the whole club is incredibly vulnerable, much more so then it is now. You only have to look at the lessons learnt from Coventry especially in terms of no revenue from anything other then a percentage of the gate, plus huge hike in prices for parking, and all the other match day expenses.
Coventry, close to Birmingham (that is the best thing you can say about it, which is a bit weak) compared to a club in London, next to Canary Wharf. I cant quite see the likeness.
Where the ground is placed makes no difference to the down sides of renting a ground as opposed to owning it.
Simple solution, transfer the Valley brick by brick, but leave the potholes behind. Well they did it with London Bridge! Seriously, the stands are all prefabricated and assembled on site, they are all in great condition. We just move them across and build a new wrap around Jimmy Seed stand. That way we retain the tradition and get a much improved Valley in a much nicer location. I doubt there would be too much supporter opposition to such a proposal.
Simple solution, transfer the Valley brick by brick, but leave the potholes behind. Well they did it with London Bridge! Seriously, the stands are all prefabricated and assembled on site, they are all in great condition. We just move them across and build a new wrap around Jimmy Seed stand. That way we retain the tradition and get a much improved Valley in a much nicer location. I doubt there would be too much supporter opposition to such a proposal.
I think you are over simplifying the "pre fabricated" bit. All the internals in the stands i.e. offices, exec boxes, dining areas are built by hand using bricks and stud walls so not that simple to dismantle.
Will I still be allowed to take my blanket & flask ?
I'll carry your blanket and flask anytime Fanny.....................
Ooerr, mistrollingin ! Have we even met yet ???
Thanks SO much for the offer but I come with more baggage , I'm afraid....
Colostomy bag, hearing aid and spare batteries, zimmer frame, box of Tena Lady....shall I continue ?
:-)
No problem there Fanny, I travel light, just my old wooden rattle from 1963 and my red and white striped bobble hat that my dear old mum knitted me.........................
And without taking QAs humour too seriously it isn't the seating areas that are the problem, rather the relative lack of lounges, bars, toilets, food outlets, exec boxes, hotels rooms, office space etc.
When we built the stands we didn't have a huge amount of money to spend so they are essentially shells.
Anyway, we've not been taken over and we don't know that even if we are that the new owners plan to move us. The debate is interesting but "many rivers to cross" as the great Jimmy Cliff once sang
for fcuk sake Henry why did you say if we move we are crossing the river, this site will now officially go into melt down, are you implying when the Hamsters move we will take up home at Upton Park.Oh my god we are doomed.
for fcuk sake Henry why did you say if we move we are crossing the river, this site will now officially go into melt down, are you implying when the Hamsters move we will take up home at Upton Park.Oh my god we are doomed.
Well, as I have said, I'm open too. I'm just a bit more sceptical than many here about the actual benefits. Of course its a long way down the line too, but I will try and take a leaf out of Henry's book. He has made an excellent checklist against which to evaluate the business plan of any new owners. Something similar can be done with the stay/move issue.
So here's my list of test questions, all suggestions for improvement welcome:
Staying
What extra seating, executive boxes and entertainment can be built into the Valley? What is the development cost of such work? What is the expected extra revenue? - in this League/In the FAPL? What is the annual running cost?
Moving
What seating, executive boxes and entertainment is planned? What is the forecast revenue - in this League/In the FAPL What is the expected rental and maintenance cost? What new benefits - such as a Safe Standing area- are offered What car parking will be available, at what expected cost?
Anyone got anything to add to the questions?
Who will own the new ground if we move given the FFP conditions excellently articulated by Seriously_red and others?
Can we add "/League One", to " in this League/In the FAPL?"
Comments
We haven't got the personality or pizzazz to fill it
The club was saved by the Glikstens in 32.
Mark Hulyer rode into town in 82.
Sunleys did their thing in 84/85.
Roger Alwen and co, succeeded by Murray and Simons, saw us through from the late 80s into the new century.
The current regime is shelling out to keep us afloat.
Over the years we've hardly been short of benefactors, have we ? So what is the lure of football ownership ? Of the 12 original league clubs in 1888, 11 are still active - that surely couldn't be said of many other businesses existing 125 years ago.
So what's new ? Is it just that forums (fora, Henry ?) like this were not around before .... ?
Wise words GHF this forum is not doing my ulcer any good .
Seriously, the stands are all prefabricated and assembled on site, they are all in great condition. We just move them across and build a new wrap around Jimmy Seed stand. That way we retain the tradition and get a much improved Valley in a much nicer location. I doubt there would be too much supporter opposition to such a proposal.
Fanny Fanackapan Member
November 24
mistrollingin said:
Fanny Fanackapan Member
November 23
mistrollingin said:
Will I still be able to take the 89 bus?
Will I still be allowed to take my blanket & flask ?
I'll carry your blanket and flask anytime Fanny.....................
Ooerr, mistrollingin ! Have we even met yet ???
Thanks SO much for the offer but I come with more baggage , I'm afraid....
Colostomy bag, hearing aid and spare batteries, zimmer frame, box of Tena Lady....shall I continue ?
:-)
No problem there Fanny, I travel light, just my old wooden rattle from 1963 and my red and white striped bobble hat that my dear old mum knitted me.........................
When we built the stands we didn't have a huge amount of money to spend so they are essentially shells.
Anyway, we've not been taken over and we don't know that even if we are that the new owners plan to move us. The debate is interesting but "many rivers to cross" as the great Jimmy Cliff once sang
It will be Brisbane Road
: - )
Anyway, I'll prefer Peartree Way over Morden Wharf btw