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Staying at/moving from the Valley. What's the business case?
Comments
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Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?0
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I can think of so many things wrong with the modern world that stadium design doesn't make the list.Leuth said:
Everything that's wrong with the modern world, in a nutshellShootersHillGuru said:
That’s like asking why does every car look the same these days. It’s because stadium design up to a certain point is driven by optimum seating, views, exits, facilities, safety and cost. Put those criteria into a computer and just like with cars there are going to be striking similarities.Leuth said:Nobody has answered my question. C'mon, why does a modern EPL stadium have to be a plastic Yank bowl?
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And yet somehow, miraculously, the likes of Spurs and Arsenal fans somehow manage to do it .......jimmymelrose said:Everyone is always going on about parking restrictions around The Valley.
How far from the ground do these go, and why are there so many more than in the past?
Can you still park around Charlton Park for example?
If it’s really not possible to park within, let’s say, a 20 minute walk, how are supporters from Kent supposed to get to the match - drive within 3-4 miles and get the bus? That must be putting a lot of fans off.
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35503715/charlton-valley-future-leave-championship
The Sun have taken Rodwell’s quotes and turned it into a story that we could be leaving The Valley.6 -
No new ground would ever look as good as this. A proper stadium in the heart of the community. Hidden amongst the terrace houses and tower blocks.
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The rent for Sparrows Lane is about 20% of the total, so it’s reasonable to think the freehold assessments are in the same proportion, I assume.bobmunro said:Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?2 -
Airman Brown said:
The rent for Sparrows Lane is about 20% of the total, so it’s reasonable to think the freehold assessments are in the same proportion, I assume.bobmunro said:Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?Thanks, Rick - so in proportion a £45m price tag could approximate to £9m for SL and £36m for The Valley. With a more realistic value for the pair of £25m, it would be a £5m/£20m split. I know which one I would buy if I could only afford one.It also seems strange to me that The Valley footprint would be worth four times that of SL. I know Sparrows Lane is designated Metropolitan Open Land (effectively Green Belt) but with the need for housing and the likely relaxation of planning laws, with SL being so much bigger than The Valley I would have thought it would be more valuable to developers.One caveat to the above - I aint no property development expert!1 -
Let's find an architect to design a modern day Dell and hear all the complaints about facilities and sightlines.ShootersHillGuru said:
That’s like asking why does every car look the same these days. It’s because stadium design up to a certain point is driven by optimum seating, views, exits, facilities, safety and cost. Put those criteria into a computer and just like with cars there are going to be striking similarities.Leuth said:Nobody has answered my question. C'mon, why does a modern EPL stadium have to be a plastic Yank bowl?0 -
Just need to rip out the first three rows of stand directly behind dugoutsShootersHillGuru said:I’m guessing that should the dugout seating and arrangements not be addressed that there will be complaints by any number of next seasons visiting teams2 - Sponsored links:
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Goodwill is still very much a thing but normally associated to the product or services the company in question provides. I have never known goodwill be attached to an asset in this case the groundjose said:Back in the day people would sell their small shops at a price, and the price often included the added attraction of ‘goodwill’.
It is the goodwill factor attached to the Valley that would be part of a business case.2 -
MOL is heavily protected. Sparrows Lane isn't brownfield land either, as the vast majority is open space.bobmunro said:Airman Brown said:
The rent for Sparrows Lane is about 20% of the total, so it’s reasonable to think the freehold assessments are in the same proportion, I assume.bobmunro said:Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?Thanks, Rick - so in proportion a £45m price tag could approximate to £9m for SL and £36m for The Valley. With a more realistic value for the pair of £25m, it would be a £5m/£20m split. I know which one I would buy if I could only afford one.It also seems strange to me that The Valley footprint would be worth four times that of SL. I know Sparrows Lane is designated Metropolitan Open Land (effectively Green Belt) but with the need for housing and the likely relaxation of planning laws, with SL being so much bigger than The Valley I would have thought it would be more valuable to developers.One caveat to the above - I aint no property development expert!0 -
I often think about this. New training grounds are very expensive but would people be happy if the owners bought The Valley and left SL?bobmunro said:Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?0 -
They built on the old GAA ground in Avery Hill Rd, it did take many years, but it finally happened.killerandflash said:
MOL is heavily protected. Sparrows Lane isn't brownfield land either, as the vast majority is open space.bobmunro said:Airman Brown said:
The rent for Sparrows Lane is about 20% of the total, so it’s reasonable to think the freehold assessments are in the same proportion, I assume.bobmunro said:Out of interest, based on RD's valuation of (I think) £45-50m, does anyone know if there's ever been a split between SL and The Valley?Thanks, Rick - so in proportion a £45m price tag could approximate to £9m for SL and £36m for The Valley. With a more realistic value for the pair of £25m, it would be a £5m/£20m split. I know which one I would buy if I could only afford one.It also seems strange to me that The Valley footprint would be worth four times that of SL. I know Sparrows Lane is designated Metropolitan Open Land (effectively Green Belt) but with the need for housing and the likely relaxation of planning laws, with SL being so much bigger than The Valley I would have thought it would be more valuable to developers.One caveat to the above - I aint no property development expert!1 -
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.
Personally, given his age, I think we need to know what his son is likely to do.
I have no idea what his leanings regarding The Adddicks future is likely to be but he may well become a significant figure in the end game.
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No its not but its not a given that they wouldn't either - if we moved out and built a new ground (which isn't going to happen) then i'd say they probably would - what else would the ground be used for? Duchatalet will know this as will the club so us threatening to move out isn't really an ace up our sleeve - we just have to hope he wants to agree something reasonable, which again, is far from a given.SoundAsa£ said:
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.0 -
he would then sell the Valley for less than he currently asking for.SoundAsa£ said:
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.
As I have pointed out before a similar sight The Archbishop Tenison`s school sight in Kennington which is 1.2 acres of mixed freehold and lease hold was sold for £7.87 million. So how many acres does the valley cover.0 -
Has CAST ever had any conversations with Roderick?SoundAsa£ said:
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.
Personally, given his age, I think we need to know what his son is likely to do.
I have no idea what his leanings regarding The Adddicks future is likely to be but he may well become a significant figure in the end game.1 -
The plans we had permission for would’ve raised the capacity to 40,000.up_the_valley said:
Just say a new stadium with say a 40k capacity would cost 200m, are we better off just paying the 50m he wants for The Valley and training ground? Of course The Valley doesn't have much room for possible expansion.ElfsborgAddick said:It'll be cheaper to pay Dushitelet than moving.2 - Sponsored links:
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Rodwell went on Talksport to put himself out there to the wide worldSidewaysInOz said:Championship chief refuses to rule out moving from historic stadium owned by much-maligned former owner | talkSPORT
Having fought so hard to get back to the Valley I really hope this doesn't have legs.
After his colleagues Scott and Methven have been given the push since the start of the year, in my opinion this give old Jim the opportunity to say hello
Unbeknown to him the questions got a bit more interesting than he probably expected and he has opened a can of worms with the question of possibly leaving the Valley.Fingers crossed this new CEO and theowners plus our non executive Chair since last November of course are one step ahead from Rodwell and are better at cards games than him2 -
maybe 4? the land most likely wouldn't be as valuable as in kennington but also would only have 1 owner and no tenants so ??msomerton said:
he would then sell the Valley for less than he currently asking for.SoundAsa£ said:
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.
As I have pointed out before a similar sight The Archbishop Tenison`s school sight in Kennington which is 1.2 acres of mixed freehold and lease hold was sold for £7.87 million. So how many acres does the valley cover.0 -
Do you have any insight you can share as to the extent of the options?, increase in capacity, reconfiguration, timescale etc?DOUCHER said:The Jimmy seed stand options are currently being looked at by the club - I can’t see us needing more than a 40k stadium in my lifetime0 -
no, i just know that the club have been meeting with consultants about it very recently and there are optionsCheshireAddick said:
Do you have any insight you can share as to the extent of the options?, increase in capacity, reconfiguration, timescale etc?DOUCHER said:The Jimmy seed stand options are currently being looked at by the club - I can’t see us needing more than a 40k stadium in my lifetime0 -
Cheers DoucherDOUCHER said:
no, i just know that the club have been meeting with consultants about it very recently and there are optionsCheshireAddick said:
Do you have any insight you can share as to the extent of the options?, increase in capacity, reconfiguration, timescale etc?DOUCHER said:The Jimmy seed stand options are currently being looked at by the club - I can’t see us needing more than a 40k stadium in my lifetime0 -
Do nothing is always an option.DOUCHER said:
no, i just know that the club have been meeting with consultants about it very recently and there are optionsCheshireAddick said:
Do you have any insight you can share as to the extent of the options?, increase in capacity, reconfiguration, timescale etc?DOUCHER said:The Jimmy seed stand options are currently being looked at by the club - I can’t see us needing more than a 40k stadium in my lifetime1 -
not when you've got a sign that's hanging offvalleynick66 said:
Do nothing is always an option.DOUCHER said:
no, i just know that the club have been meeting with consultants about it very recently and there are optionsCheshireAddick said:
Do you have any insight you can share as to the extent of the options?, increase in capacity, reconfiguration, timescale etc?DOUCHER said:The Jimmy seed stand options are currently being looked at by the club - I can’t see us needing more than a 40k stadium in my lifetime1 -
Even as a Millwall fan I’d agree with this. Great ground The Valley. You’d be mad to even consider moving to some soulless out of town bowl.Croydon said:
No new ground would ever look as good as this. A proper stadium in the heart of the community. Hidden amongst the terrace houses and tower blocks.29 -
Dushitelet has us by the b*******.DOUCHER said:
No its not but its not a given that they wouldn't either - if we moved out and built a new ground (which isn't going to happen) then i'd say they probably would - what else would the ground be used for? Duchatalet will know this as will the club so us threatening to move out isn't really an ace up our sleeve - we just have to hope he wants to agree something reasonable, which again, is far from a given.SoundAsa£ said:
That’s assuming Greenwich Council grant planning permission.DOUCHER said:Let’s face it - RD has us over a barrel here and I think the above discussion only reinforces that - makes no sense in any way to leave the valley - extending the lease or negotiating a sale is the only way - leave the valley - which none of us want - and he will be able to sell the land for development so we have very few bargaining chips from what I can see
That’s not a given by any means.
I am sure he's not concerned in the slightest should we not sign a new lease.0 -
Nowadays? Executive boxes and suites, mostlyLeuth said:
What makes a ground fit for EPL purpose? Loads of plasticy bits everywhere? Popcorn cart at every stand entrance? Nonsense platitudes stencilled onto all the walls?sam3110 said:The Valley isn't a "ready-made premier league ground" anymore.
Look at The Amex, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, Hill Dickinson Stadium, the Etihad.
Old Trafford is considered not fit for purpose anymore, Newcastle are seriously considering moving away from St. James Park.
Yes we have a huge affinity with the exact patch of land we currently play on. But times move on, and if in 10 years time we're suddenly an established Premier League side and The Valley can't cater to our needs, we'd be silly to not look at our options.
All pie in the sky of course0
