Disappointing but not necessarily surprising result. If you take the lead at home you should come away with at least a point, but this team not good at taking the game to poor sides, particularly at home. It's good at catching good sides unawares.I had more confidence we would beat Blackburn last week than I had in us beating Wednesday today.
C'est la vie, we'll still stay up and that's good enough this season.
The trouble with all those wins with 4-5-1 home and away is that the management team were reluctant to switch to 5-4-1 (Dervite) or 4-4-2 (Fuller). Thought the first half was very poor compared to what we have watched recently and so was delighted to go 1-0 up - fantastic move and thought we really could have then moved on to nail it in the next 10 minutes. They bring on Lita (who?!) and we have a far superior player in Fuller on the bench who should have come on either for Kermorgant or any one of the midfield 5 except perhaps Stephens.
So I totally agree with Tutt-Tutt except for one thing... we should be looking for 60 points or more as it will really show we have arrived back and will make the gap between our finish and the top six look less daunting for next time. I am 100% that we will be competing at that level next season but it is not clear to me how many additions needed I see good players on the bench and Wiggins / Haynes back soon and we see virtually every game decided by the odd goal so I'm not sure that this squad is as far off as some may think. And who can say what players are available / affordable in the summer to give us that edge? Why am I certain it will happen? Look at the other threads on club losses and where CAFC are heading!
Straight out after the game so only just catching up on here.
Very disappointed with the result. Thought Pritch was being out muscled throughout the game & shoud have been subbed, but not sure by whom....
Agree that we sat too deep after we scored and pumping the ball forward out of defence was surely not he best way of by passing their massive back four.
However, those of us that made the trip to Hellsborough, will recognise that in both games, one of their players should have seen red in the first 10 mins or so , but true to form , both refs bottled it and the rest is history ( not that we tend to excel against 10 men)
Not a great fan of Waggy but was definitely my MOM.
Sour taste in my mouth tonight and have to worry about next Saturday's jaunt to the Supermarket...
Whilst I believe SCP is far from a tactical genius, we were a little unlucky today. Some will focus on no subs, but really it's about missed chances. The game should have been wrapped earlier in the second half, Stephens lack of composure, Waggy hitting post etc. We play the way we do out of necessity rather than choice, I would stick with this system,replace Taylor with Cort Next week but that's about it. The boys battled well against a very powerful Wendies team, having read the Accounts thread this week I am prepared to have a little more perspective than usual.
Would have liked to see us exploit Lleras lack of pace, agility more, but as I say he's no tactical genius and works with average but committed players.
Decided to sleep on it rather than putting any comments on yesterday. Mood has changed a little but not much. I completely understand why Powell stuck to 4-5-1 as it worked the last few games. However I don't remember us sitting so deep and trying to hold onto a 1-0 lead for so long previously. It was a very bad idea and everyone could see that Wednesday were still up for it and inviting a team who are fighting for points just as much as we are to attack us was ridiculous.
Powell got it wrong today. Too many times when we had the ball in their half somehow the ball either ended up back to Morrison or Hamer. Man utd can get away with that we can't.
Wagstaff, jackson, Taylor, Kern and evina all player well. Rest were average. Powell should have brought subs on earlier to freshen things up. This is not hindsight I was shouting this after 70 minutes. Not change formation, but freshen. Fuller for Kerm and either green or Harriot for Wilson (who I thought had his first poor game for ages where his flicks and runs just did not come off).
Terrible spectacle of a football match! We got sucked into a game of head tennis against a bigger and stronger team! 4-5-1 works but the ball must be played to Yanns feet! Yann was fucked jumping for headers and was frustrated because he never really got it to his feet! It's ironic that the only quality piece of football we played we scored from! Powell and Dyer need to reflect on their substitutions! Wilson and JJ were knackered ! We didn't have enough in the last 15 mins they should have changed it! We could all see it! 10 mins after we scored my brother said well need 2 goals at least! Summary, bad management cost us but Powell is learning so he shouldn't get slaughtered, a draw would have been a fair result! We are mid table I am well happy with that from a L1 set of players and we've got Palace next week! It could be worse we could be from Sheffield! COYRs
So easy to say now that we should've made substitutions earlier, but what Powell said in his post-match press conference was exactly right - the players were doing their jobs properly, then a header which looked like it was going over crept in.
Admittedly we could've changed it after the equaliser, but what would he have done? The problem we have is that any substitution we make makes the team on the pitch significantly worse, not better. Yes they'll have fresher legs, but I would much rather have a slightly tired Lawrie Wilson on the pitch than a completely ineffective Danny Green. Until the options on the bench are closer to the starting XI in terms of quality, I think SCP is right in leaving the substitutions til late in the game.
Thought it was a poor game myself, very little quality from either side and we perhaps 'stole' it at the end but that's football. Always like my trips to the Valley and the Jimmy Seed stand is excellent.
So easy to say now that we should've made substitutions earlier, but what Powell said in his post-match press conference was exactly right - the players were doing their jobs properly, then a header which looked like it was going over crept in.
Admittedly we could've changed it after the equaliser, but what would he have done? The problem we have is that any substitution we make makes the team on the pitch significantly worse, not better. Yes they'll have fresher legs, but I would much rather have a slightly tired Lawrie Wilson on the pitch than a completely ineffective Danny Green. Until the options on the bench are closer to the starting XI in terms of quality, I think SCP is right in leaving the substitutions til late in the game.
Sorry but on this occasion SCP is totally wrong. The players were not doing their jobs because several of them were out on their feet. Yann because he ploughed a loan furrow all game and Wilson, JJ and Pritchard because they worked hard on a very heavy pitch. Not going to go overboard in having a go at Chris because he's still learning and I love him to bits but he got that wrong yesterday and defending his decision in the light of the evidence is odd. No big deal. We move on.
So easy to say now that we should've made substitutions earlier, but what Powell said in his post-match press conference was exactly right - the players were doing their jobs properly, then a header which looked like it was going over crept in.
Admittedly we could've changed it after the equaliser, but what would he have done? The problem we have is that any substitution we make makes the team on the pitch significantly worse, not better. Yes they'll have fresher legs, but I would much rather have a slightly tired Lawrie Wilson on the pitch than a completely ineffective Danny Green. Until the options on the bench are closer to the starting XI in terms of quality, I think SCP is right in leaving the substitutions til late in the game.
If CP thinks pissing about with the ball before passing back to Hamer and hoofing it up is 'doing their job' then I think we have more than a lack of substitutions to be worried about. Awful tactics displayed by a team 1-0 up at home,as every Charlton an knows: one goal is never enough! He has my full support but people need to stop thinking he can do no wrong.
on reflection yesterday told me, with this present squad, when we are playing well we are a middle of the table side, when we are not we are relegation material,let's hope we can keep on top of our game for the rest of the season.
So easy to say now that we should've made substitutions earlier, but what Powell said in his post-match press conference was exactly right - the players were doing their jobs properly, then a header which looked like it was going over crept in.
Admittedly we could've changed it after the equaliser, but what would he have done? The problem we have is that any substitution we make makes the team on the pitch significantly worse, not better. Yes they'll have fresher legs, but I would much rather have a slightly tired Lawrie Wilson on the pitch than a completely ineffective Danny Green. Until the options on the bench are closer to the starting XI in terms of quality, I think SCP is right in leaving the substitutions til late in the game.
If CP thinks pissing about with the ball before passing back to Hamer and hoofing it up is 'doing their job' then I think we have more than a lack of substitutions to be worried about. Awful tactics displayed by a team 1-0 up at home,as every Charlton an knows: one goal is never enough! He has my full support but people need to stop thinking he can do no wrong.
It's nothing to do with thinking he can do no wrong.
Many have said he should have made changes, but no one seems to agree which changes.
Had Fuller come on for Pritchard we may still have conceded and it would have been Powell's fault for leaving us with a slow central midfield. Had Jackson or Stephens come off he'd have been questioned for leaving "the lightweight Pritchard" on.
Green? Weak defensively, not ideal against their pacey wingers and set pieces. Similar for BWP. Wilson has to be more useful when defending set pieces.
Cort or Dervite - "didn't he learn from the Birmingham game". Would have invited more pressure.
A sub or two might have won the game for us, but equally it might have weakened us. It has worked for Powell in the past. I can understand why he didn't make any changes. Had we taken another one of our chances we'd have been fine.
Haynes for BWP and Wiggins for Dervite will give us better options, though a solid CM for Green or Harriott is missing.
Packed midfield in the first half led to a stodgy scrappy half where both teams were equally dire. It was awful to watch, no quality anywhere to be seen. Through balls overhit, and players not on the same wavelength. Think the pitch was largely responsible for this, and both sides cancelled each other out. Felt as though Weds had come for a point.
Second half we came out fast and scored from the first really decent bit of flowing football in the match - though Pritch's little touch for Jackson was fabulous.
About 70min we tired - though Wilson looked well off the pace and though Stephens was involved, his passes were sideways at best and posed no threat. I thought after we scored Weds would have to come on to us and would leave gaps at the back, letting us hit them on the counter which would have suited us. We were crying out for a pacy striker at that point - ideal for Haynes if he'd been fit, or Fuller of those on the bench. Thought Waggy our most potent threat throughout, such a shame his shot bounced back off the post.
As we sat deeper the outcome became more and more predictable, and Weds adapted well to our lack of a threat, and the goals were always coming.
Hugely disappointed at the end, two examples of the whole team switching off completely and just letting them run at us, and we paid the price. Hope CP learns from this and works out how to change things effectively next time we're in a similar situation.
No criticism of Weds - they did what they needed to using the resources available. Saw them home and away, and not impressed, but if I judged us on those two matches I say the same thing. They have enough to stay up, just. Slightly more bearable losing to a DJ team than a GM team, I suppose. Cold comfort.
Please do not think I'm digging your posts out but just offering an alternative. Yann was jumping for headers and working tirelessly on his own and by seventy minutes was spent as an effective outlet and unable to close down and harrass the centre backs. Fuller at that point could have been more effective. Wilson was not involved by seventy minutes and on the whole had a poor ish game anyway. He could have brought on Dervite for Wilson and pushed Pritch wide. Would have then kept the shape if that's what he wanted to do. You have a bench of substitutes for a reason.
Sorry but on this occasion SCP is totally wrong. The players were not doing their jobs because several of them were out on their feet. Yann because he ploughed a loan furrow all game and Wilson, JJ and Pritchard because they worked hard on a very heavy pitch. Not going to go overboard in having a go at Chris because he's still learning and I love him to bits but he got that wrong yesterday and defending his decision in the light of the evidence is odd. No big deal. We move on.
I think that's a little unfair, since you can't guarantee that things would've turned out any differently had the substitutions been made earlier. My point is that even with earlier substitutions, you end up bringing significantly inferior players onto the pitch, due to the lack of strength in depth.
Powell obviously doesn't trust Green and BWP, possibly rightly so given their performances this season. Agree with @Scoham that we'll have better options once Haynes is on the bench, and Evina/Wiggins will be a good backup too.
I also don't agree with the sentiment that "the goals were coming." Again, that's just hindsight talking. No one would've been surprised had we sat that out and won 1-0. We were sitting deeper, but looked completely comfortable. It was one header that Hamer misjudged. That's not singling him out, I think most people thought it was going over. Even the Wednesday fans seemed to delay half a second before celebrating.
Thought it was a poor game myself, very little quality from either side and we perhaps 'stole' it at the end but that's football. Always like my trips to the Valley and the Jimmy Seed stand is excellent.
I would rather have a Lita than a pint
I heard that chant - brought a smile to my face despite the loss.
they were always a threat and i felt that whoever scored the second goal of the game would win it. we missed chances at 1-0 up and paid for it - fresh legs in the last 15 may have seen us score first but lets not over react. They were always dangerous and lets not forget the open goal they missed at 0-0. Onto next week - this is a league where we have been competitive in every game and the result could have gone either way in most - yesterday was no exception - we're a mid table champ team and we go to palace next week with a chance of doing them if we get the rub of the green. i would have stuck dervitte and either harriot or fuller on for pritchard and wilson in last 15 but it wasn't that obvious because although fuller may have threatened, you couldn't really take kermo off and could you expect fuller to defend as well? Ideally Haynes would be fit and he could have replaced wilson and i think we'd have run out with 3 or 4 goals but we're limited with what we can do at the moment.
Sorry but on this occasion SCP is totally wrong. The players were not doing their jobs because several of them were out on their feet. Yann because he ploughed a loan furrow all game and Wilson, JJ and Pritchard because they worked hard on a very heavy pitch. Not going to go overboard in having a go at Chris because he's still learning and I love him to bits but he got that wrong yesterday and defending his decision in the light of the evidence is odd. No big deal. We move on.
I think that's a little unfair, since you can't guarantee that things would've turned out any differently had the substitutions been made earlier. My point is that even with earlier substitutions, you end up bringing significantly inferior players onto the pitch, due to the lack of strength in depth.
Powell obviously doesn't trust Green and BWP, possibly rightly so given their performances this season. Agree with @Scoham that we'll have better options once Haynes is on the bench, and Evina/Wiggins will be a good backup too.
I also don't agree with the sentiment that "the goals were coming." Again, that's just hindsight talking. No one would've been surprised had we sat that out and won 1-0. We were sitting deeper, but looked completely comfortable. It was one header that Hamer misjudged. That's not singling him out, I think most people thought it was going over. Even the Wednesday fans seemed to delay half a second before celebrating.
In summary, shit happens.
Shit does happen but SCP is paid to make decisions and I don't think it is with hindsight that I make my observations about the need for fresh legs at around the 75 minute mark. I thought it then and I still think it. He made a very big error at that point in my humble opinion and nothing will change my mind on that. We contributed hugely to our own demise by not making changes to react to the heaviness of the pitch and to react to what Dave Jones did superbly for them with the substitutes. I reiterate that the bench is there for a reason.
Too gutted to read any previous posts. But: we sang to them: "Thats why you're going down". They came from one goal down, scored two goals and won away from home. Who would the bookies back to go down, us or them. Anyway, can we stop singing negative songs about the other team and start singing positive songs about our own team. 'Something Inside So Strong' or similar would be good. Also, can I just mention the abuse our manager was getting at the end of the game from some numb-nuts in the Covered End Upper, was depressing. Like the banner on this site, I expect 100% Support nothing else in J Block - dissent is for elsewhere in the ground. Thanks for listening!
Agreed there was some real naughty words being shouted from the north upper not sure they were all at Powell though? Also where were our drummer lads?
Well, near where I was sitting, the abuse WAS aimed a SCP. One person in particular (looks like Father Christmas' love child) was giving it large. But my main point is that can we please be positive in singing about Charlton rather than being negative about our opponents - which tends to bite us in the derriere!
Agreed there was some real naughty words being shouted from the north upper not sure they were all at Powell though? Also where were our drummer lads?
Well, near where I was sitting, the abuse WAS aimed a SCP. One person in particular (looks like Father Christmas' love child) was giving it large. But my main point is that can we please be positive in singing about Charlton rather than being negative about our opponents - which tends to bite us in the derriere!
Where I was in the North Lower, there were a lot of people questioning Mr Powell's intelligence, and enquiring as to the point of timing those substitutes in fervent terms, but nothing worse than every referee gets every week, or what some players are subjected to.
now the dust has settled can you please admit you were beaten by the better team and out smarted tactically by DJ, who stole the game from CP. If not carry on sucking on the lemons. You're a small side which is ok as your're a small club. Plucky, i believe is the preferred term in these parts.
Comments
Okay, it's after midnight and 12 C outside ..... unreal for a January night.
C'est la vie, we'll still stay up and that's good enough this season.
They bring on Lita (who?!) and we have a far superior player in Fuller on the bench who should have come on either for Kermorgant or any one of the midfield 5 except perhaps Stephens.
So I totally agree with Tutt-Tutt except for one thing... we should be looking for 60 points or more as it will really show we have arrived back and will make the gap between our finish and the top six look less daunting for next time. I am 100% that we will be competing at that level next season but it is not clear to me how many additions needed I see good players on the bench and Wiggins / Haynes back soon and we see virtually every game decided by the odd goal so I'm not sure that this squad is as far off as some may think. And who can say what players are available / affordable in the summer to give us that edge? Why am I certain it will happen? Look at the other threads on club losses and where CAFC are heading!
Very disappointed with the result. Thought Pritch was being out muscled throughout the game & shoud have been subbed, but not sure by whom....
Agree that we sat too deep after we scored and pumping the ball forward out of defence was surely not he best way of by passing their massive back four.
However, those of us that made the trip to Hellsborough, will recognise that in both games, one of their players should have seen red in the first 10 mins or so , but true to form , both refs bottled it and the rest is history ( not that we tend to excel against 10 men)
Not a great fan of Waggy but was definitely my MOM.
Sour taste in my mouth tonight and have to worry about next Saturday's jaunt to the Supermarket...
Would have liked to see us exploit Lleras lack of pace, agility more, but as I say he's no tactical genius and works with average but committed players.
Powell got it wrong today. Too many times when we had the ball in their half somehow the ball either ended up back to Morrison or Hamer. Man utd can get away with that we can't.
Wagstaff, jackson, Taylor, Kern and evina all player well. Rest were average. Powell should have brought subs on earlier to freshen things up. This is not hindsight I was shouting this after 70 minutes. Not change formation, but freshen. Fuller for Kerm and either green or Harriot for Wilson (who I thought had his first poor game for ages where his flicks and runs just did not come off).
We will bounce back. Just disappointed
Summary, bad management cost us but Powell is learning so he shouldn't get slaughtered, a draw would have been a fair result! We are mid table I am well happy with that from a L1 set of players and we've got Palace next week!
It could be worse we could be from Sheffield!
COYRs
Admittedly we could've changed it after the equaliser, but what would he have done? The problem we have is that any substitution we make makes the team on the pitch significantly worse, not better. Yes they'll have fresher legs, but I would much rather have a slightly tired Lawrie Wilson on the pitch than a completely ineffective Danny Green. Until the options on the bench are closer to the starting XI in terms of quality, I think SCP is right in leaving the substitutions til late in the game.
I would rather have a Lita than a pint
keep on top of our game for the rest of the season.
Many have said he should have made changes, but no one seems to agree which changes.
Had Fuller come on for Pritchard we may still have conceded and it would have been Powell's fault for leaving us with a slow central midfield. Had Jackson or Stephens come off he'd have been questioned for leaving "the lightweight Pritchard" on.
Green? Weak defensively, not ideal against their pacey wingers and set pieces. Similar for BWP. Wilson has to be more useful when defending set pieces.
Cort or Dervite - "didn't he learn from the Birmingham game". Would have invited more pressure.
A sub or two might have won the game for us, but equally it might have weakened us. It has worked for Powell in the past. I can understand why he didn't make any changes. Had we taken another one of our chances we'd have been fine.
Haynes for BWP and Wiggins for Dervite will give us better options, though a solid CM for Green or Harriott is missing.
with 10 mins to go I said to my mate "we've done enough to be home and dry by now"
Kiss of death? By now, I should have known better.
Packed midfield in the first half led to a stodgy scrappy half where both teams were equally dire. It was awful to watch, no quality anywhere to be seen. Through balls overhit, and players not on the same wavelength. Think the pitch was largely responsible for this, and both sides cancelled each other out. Felt as though Weds had come for a point.
Second half we came out fast and scored from the first really decent bit of flowing football in the match - though Pritch's little touch for Jackson was fabulous.
About 70min we tired - though Wilson looked well off the pace and though Stephens was involved, his passes were sideways at best and posed no threat. I thought after we scored Weds would have to come on to us and would leave gaps at the back, letting us hit them on the counter which would have suited us. We were crying out for a pacy striker at that point - ideal for Haynes if he'd been fit, or Fuller of those on the bench. Thought Waggy our most potent threat throughout, such a shame his shot bounced back off the post.
As we sat deeper the outcome became more and more predictable, and Weds adapted well to our lack of a threat, and the goals were always coming.
Hugely disappointed at the end, two examples of the whole team switching off completely and just letting them run at us, and we paid the price. Hope CP learns from this and works out how to change things effectively next time we're in a similar situation.
No criticism of Weds - they did what they needed to using the resources available. Saw them home and away, and not impressed, but if I judged us on those two matches I say the same thing. They have enough to stay up, just. Slightly more bearable losing to a DJ team than a GM team, I suppose. Cold comfort.
Please do not think I'm digging your posts out but just offering an alternative. Yann was jumping for headers and working tirelessly on his own and by seventy minutes was spent as an effective outlet and unable to close down and harrass the centre backs. Fuller at that point could have been more effective. Wilson was not involved by seventy minutes and on the whole had a poor ish game anyway. He could have brought on Dervite for Wilson and pushed Pritch wide. Would have then kept the shape if that's what he wanted to do. You have a bench of substitutes for a reason.
Powell obviously doesn't trust Green and BWP, possibly rightly so given their performances this season. Agree with @Scoham that we'll have better options once Haynes is on the bench, and Evina/Wiggins will be a good backup too.
I also don't agree with the sentiment that "the goals were coming." Again, that's just hindsight talking. No one would've been surprised had we sat that out and won 1-0. We were sitting deeper, but looked completely comfortable. It was one header that Hamer misjudged. That's not singling him out, I think most people thought it was going over. Even the Wednesday fans seemed to delay half a second before celebrating.
In summary, shit happens.
I'd say that was an unlucky loss. Especially the huge deflection for Leroy's goal.
IMO fair score would be 2-2.
there was some real naughty words being shouted from the north upper not sure they were all at Powell though?
Also where were our drummer lads?
If not carry on sucking on the lemons.
You're a small side which is ok as your're a small club. Plucky, i believe is the preferred term in these parts.
it must be hard seeing so many small clubs above your underachieving big club , for such a long time