Weegie AddickMember 11:39AM For goodness sake - we lost one game after winning three in a row - and suddenly Powell is tactically naive if not downright incompetent and in danger of losing the fans? Ridiculous over-reaction by many on here....I assume you all get everything right 100% of the time?? Quote
Sorry, ridiculous comment. This is called a Forum, if we can't express varying opinions what is the point ?
Weegie AddickMember 11:39AM For goodness sake - we lost one game after winning three in a row - and suddenly Powell is tactically naive if not downright incompetent and in danger of losing the fans? Ridiculous over-reaction by many on here....I assume you all get everything right 100% of the time?? Quote
Sorry, ridiculous comment. This is called a Forum, if we can't express varying opinions what is the point ?
Arguably saying some people have over reacted is also expressing an opinion!
It shows the lack of strength in depth, Fuller for Yann is the only possible change I would have made. It wasnt a game for a Harriott or Green (then again id rather have Floyd and Harvey over Green)
We lost the match because of a keeper error and a deflection, shit happens.
I find some people's opinions on here quite laughable. Powell is tactically naive and dave jones is tactically astute. Firstly Jones made a gamble (when they had nothing to lose) which paid off for them, so yes credit to him. However Powell has won more games than Jones this year - so if for those who think that is the main point about winning or losing games why is jones suddenly better than Powell. I know who i am backing, 100%.
Can't believe people are blaming this one on the lack of subs. The only areas that were worth changing were right mid and central mid. He was right not to take Lawrie of though as Green wasn't going to provide the cover we needed and Weds were going for broke. Pritch needed to come off but the only person we could bring on was a centre half who can play the holding role at a pinch. Inviting them onto us was one of the reasons they got back in it so bringing Dervite on wouldn't have been a great move. If we'd had Frimpong still then I'm sure Powell would have made the change but the fact was there weren't many decent changes we could make.
We fell down by not taking our chances, due to some surprising tentativeness in the final third, and a lack of sensible passing from the midfield. Yann needed the ball to feet in the last ten so we could stretch their full backs, especially with Waggy running riot but it was always lumped to his head. We also needed Stephens to pick the right passes. Instead he dawdled on the ball and played a measured, considered pass straight to the opposition repeatedly. They attacked with numbers after this and scored, not helped by a lack of positive impact from Pritch when they surged forward. We also got hurt when Jacko didn't have the pace to pick up on the flick ons or second balls after work from Waggy & Yann. He got there in time for the goal though so you can't really knock him too much. Just needs that bit more pace. It's always easy to blame the lack of subs but the fact is the players were doing it on the pitch until the last 10 when too many players fell apart and stopped doing their jobs. The manager can't plan for that
What would all those moaning about no subs have done exactly in the context of the match we watched?
We were 15 minutes or so from closing out a 1-0 victory and struggling to compete for the ball against a very industrious Sheffield Wednesday side.
We needed to match that work rate and, in all honesty, Jimmy Floyd Fuller jogging around, Danny haircut Green not tracking back or BWP being physically dominated by their centre halves wasn't going to cut it.
Taken Yann of (he was knackered) and put Fuller on. Taken Wilson off (knackered) and put Green on, Taken off Dale and put Cort or Dervitte on in front of our back four. All 3 should have been done at 75 mins. Like I said previously, Powell made an error of judgement, that's all, I'm not gonna slaughter him for it, but I expect him to learn.
I also wonder how many interesting posters have been lost to this site because some people can't be bothered to read all the idiotic comments written on here. Even when we were struggling under Parky the level of debate on here was much more sensible and measured
Sometimes you just have to say it wasn't your day - cross for equaliser had to be a fluke as they showed no signs of having that quality throughout the game and winner was an even bigger fluke. We hit the bar and post and until they scored it felt comfortable.
My biggest frustration was the ref - can someboy explain to me why he didn't send Coke off - the rules are the rules - at least I thought they were!!!!
I find some people's opinions on here quite laughable. Powell is tactically naive and dave jones is tactically astute. Firstly Jones made a gamble (when they had nothing to lose) which paid off for them, so yes credit to him. However Powell has won more games than Jones this year - so if for those who think that is the main point about winning or losing games why is jones suddenly better than Powell. I know who i am backing, 100%.
You misunderstand, nobody is saying that Jones is better than Powell, we are merely pointing out that Jones won the game for them with well timed and constructed substitutions, and unfortunately ( in our opinion ) Powell failed to realise the need until the 88th minute, which of course was far too late. It is however comforting to be told that we make you laugh, most of us were not doing the same.
The ball was not only coming straight back, but Llera was able to waltz into our half in possesion. We were just inviting pressure and it made us get deeper and deeper and deeper.
CP had both Fuller and BWP to bring on.
Fuller could have held the ball up, given Llera and their other centre half something to think about rather than allow them to camp on the half way line.
or
BWP could have run the channel, pulled Llera about a bit, win a throwing or a free kick, let our defence get up.
This isnt hindsight, this is calling it at the time.
If you have your two banks of four or a four and five, then you can defend as an organised unit. But the striker(s) has to do a job the last 10 mins in that he releives pressure and allows to regroup. It allows us to play further up the pitch.
I was having the converation with my brother about bringing Fuller on for Yann, but it wasn't easy as Yann was holding up the ball well. Also thought Fuller for JJ might be a possibility. We weren't sure and I'm sure Powell contemplated a switch but understandably decided against it. Was he wrong, well yes as it turned out, but he could have been right too on another day. I think Wednesday got lucky - it happens.
Bringing Dervite on for Stephens would have meant us sitting back even more in my opinion and Stephens was doing ok and retaining possession well.
Agree Fuller for Yann was a possibility Gary, but Hamer would still have flapped for the goal.
Possibly but thats when we get into hindsight. Would Sheff Wed have created the chance if we werent inviting so much pressure?
I think CP has just left himself open for a bit of criticism with not making a single change. I love him, but i think most of whats been said on here has been positive criticism and a fans right to hope that if in the same situation again, he does make a call.
Hamer made a couple of saves, one down to his left was a good save, before they scored and i thought that may have set alarm bells ringing for a change in personel.
Bringing Dervite on for Stephens would have meant us sitting back even more in my opinion and Stephens was doing ok and retaining possession well.
Agree Fuller for Yann was a possibility Gary, but Hamer would still have flapped for the goal.
Its not hindsight is it when the obvious is in front of you. We couldnt have sat much deeper. Stephens was not doing OK in the last 15 mins though, he was getting pushed off the ball and we were not winning the second ball, a big lump like Cort or Devitte would have stopped them steam rolling our midfield.
I was having the converation with my brother about bringing Fuller on for Yann, but it wasn't easy as Yann was holding up the ball well. Also thought Fuller for JJ might be a possibility. We weren't sure and I'm sure Powell contemplated a switch but understandably decided against it. Was he wrong, well yes as it turned out, but he could have been right too on another day. I think Wednesday got lucky - it happens.
Perhaps when the ball was coming directly too him but he was treading water last 10.
The fresh legs upfront would have rushed their back four (centre halfs especially) in possesion and not allowed them to walk into our half with the ball, as well as giving an option to our fullbacks and midfield.
Just seen the highlights and they are both two real s/crappy goals. Wednesday are very lucky IMHO. The 1st one should have been an easy catch or tip over from Hamer really. Perhaps he lost his footing... The 2nd just deflected a shot. Just one of those games I guess.
We move on and we learn, hopefully in time for Palace!
Being a boring snoring maths teacher - it struck me on Saturday that we are really conceding remarkably too many goals in the latter stages of the game so I came home and delved deeper....Almost a third of goals conceded at home come in the final 10minutes...Please Chrissy - get the subs on before the deluge.... Good thing we are away at CP next week.....(away games it is only 12.5%)
Going round in circles here aren't we? As I see it, nobody is saying Powell isn't up to the job tactically or that they would like to see anyone else managing the club. More often than not over the past season and half he has got things spot on. However he has admitted himself only last week that we should have another 6/7 points. After Saturday I think that should be 10. He has made mistakes and to be fair, at times he has admitted that. Leaving Pritchard out IMO was a big mistake and we lost three in a row. Not making a change at Bolton when the game was there for the taking, Bolton made the change and Ngog changed the game. Some mistakes are only easy to see in hindsight, but on Saturday it was obvious to the majority that we needed to make a change around the 70th minute. Good managers learn from their mistakes and I don't see anything wrong in constructive criticism. Gutted as I was, I would never boo Powell or the players no matter how bad their mistake. The important thing is that they recognise that they made an error and work towards ensuring that the same thing doesn't happen again. It worried me that he thought the players were "doing their job", because some of them were simply too knackered to do their job efficiently and effectively.
Can't believe people are blaming this one on the lack of subs. The only areas that were worth changing were right mid and central mid. He was right not to take Lawrie of though as Green wasn't going to provide the cover we needed and Weds were going for broke. Pritch needed to come off but the only person we could bring on was a centre half who can play the holding role at a pinch. Inviting them onto us was one of the reasons they got back in it so bringing Dervite on wouldn't have been a great move. If we'd had Frimpong still then I'm sure Powell would have made the change but the fact was there weren't many decent changes we could make.
We fell down by not taking our chances, due to some surprising tentativeness in the final third, and a lack of sensible passing from the midfield. Yann needed the ball to feet in the last ten so we could stretch their full backs, especially with Waggy running riot but it was always lumped to his head. We also needed Stephens to pick the right passes. Instead he dawdled on the ball and played a measured, considered pass straight to the opposition repeatedly. They attacked with numbers after this and scored, not helped by a lack of positive impact from Pritch when they surged forward. We also got hurt when Jacko didn't have the pace to pick up on the flick ons or second balls after work from Waggy & Yann. He got there in time for the goal though so you can't really knock him too much. Just needs that bit more pace. It's always easy to blame the lack of subs but the fact is the players were doing it on the pitch until the last 10 when too many players fell apart and stopped doing their jobs. The manager can't plan for that
Good analysis.
People are praising Jones's subs - but he had to make a change, his team were losing and running out of ideas. He got lucky
Wendies are the league's form team. A season ticket holder (yes he supports the massive) said to me before the game that they are playing with confidence and away are playing as good or better than us, by nicking results. They came and did a smash and grab on us. We have done it ourselves and at Blackburn it felt immense. We do need to find the correct formation/attitude/form at home somehow. it would be strange to win more away than at home, but as last season suggests, Powell's team's are strong away anyway when they play with confidence.
my only thought is that some players get stage fright in front of the home crowd. away there is less pressure and the crowd are not so easy to hear if things aren't going right. when things start going well, the hundreds of faithful fans that we take away, make themselves heard and spur the team on. if at home 2-3k+ plastics start complaining it may get to the players?
Powell is doing the right thing. He has us in mid-table. i'd have taken that pre-season and i'd take that now and at end of season. We don't have the squad for play-offs, we all know that. there are far better squads in this league that we are competing with. SISS.
Being a boring snoring maths teacher - it struck me on Saturday that we are really conceding remarkably too many goals in the latter stages of the game so I came home and delved deeper....Almost a third of goals conceded at home come in the final 10minutes...Please Chrissy - get the subs on before the deluge.... Good thing we are away at CP next week.....(away games it is only 12.5%)
also, we have only scored 3 after the 75th minute...............
Just seen the highlights and they are both two real s/crappy goals. Wednesday are very lucky IMHO. The 1st one should have been an easy catch or tip over from Hamer really. Perhaps he lost his footing... The 2nd just deflected a shot. Just one of those games I guess.
We move on and we learn, hopefully in time for Palace!
.....and obviously you aren't supposed to score scrappy goals, just well crafted ones.............
Love Chris Powell. First game this season for me and was expecting a step up in quality on the pitch from the 2-3 matches I managed to take in last season in L1. I now consider him a miracle worker if he has got us mid table with that lot. Found myself trying to explain that 1st half away with, shit pitch, shit opposition, below par Addicks low on home confidence. In my Charlton supporting career I have seen us play in the 2nd division of English football for the majority, but is THAT really the standard of this division? Appalling quality. As for CP, still love the fella but he needs to learn fast. If 16k home supporters (most of who go every week) can see it why can't he, we needed freshening up with 15 minutes to go. He lost that match IMO. I will be back next year, when I hope CP is still there and more importantly the club is. Now for the Palarse!
Why ?? do you only make subs when you are losing ???? why not be positive and get a second and then you can relax a bit......
Against cardiff even a 3 goal advantage was close to not being enough...............
No reason at all Golfie, but there's no guarantee you are gonna get a second. It's a judgement call and I'll I would say is I could understand why he didn't on this occasion for the reasons Garymanilow expressed better than I can.
Comments
Weegie AddickMember
11:39AM
For goodness sake - we lost one game after winning three in a row - and suddenly Powell is tactically naive if not downright incompetent and in danger of losing the fans? Ridiculous over-reaction by many on here....I assume you all get everything right 100% of the time??
Quote
Sorry, ridiculous comment. This is called a Forum, if we can't express varying opinions what is the point ?
Just saying.
It shows the lack of strength in depth, Fuller for Yann is the only possible change I would have made. It wasnt a game for a Harriott or Green (then again id rather have Floyd and Harvey over Green)
We lost the match because of a keeper error and a deflection, shit happens.
However Powell has won more games than Jones this year - so if for those who think that is the main point about winning or losing games why is jones suddenly better than Powell. I know who i am backing, 100%.
We fell down by not taking our chances, due to some surprising tentativeness in the final third, and a lack of sensible passing from the midfield. Yann needed the ball to feet in the last ten so we could stretch their full backs, especially with Waggy running riot but it was always lumped to his head. We also needed Stephens to pick the right passes. Instead he dawdled on the ball and played a measured, considered pass straight to the opposition repeatedly. They attacked with numbers after this and scored, not helped by a lack of positive impact from Pritch when they surged forward. We also got hurt when Jacko didn't have the pace to pick up on the flick ons or second balls after work from Waggy & Yann. He got there in time for the goal though so you can't really knock him too much. Just needs that bit more pace. It's always easy to blame the lack of subs but the fact is the players were doing it on the pitch until the last 10 when too many players fell apart and stopped doing their jobs. The manager can't plan for that
Like I said previously, Powell made an error of judgement, that's all, I'm not gonna slaughter him for it, but I expect him to learn.
My biggest frustration was the ref - can someboy explain to me why he didn't send Coke off - the rules are the rules - at least I thought they were!!!!
But bringing on Danny Green to defend a 1-0 lead is just ridiculous.
I find some people's opinions on here quite laughable. Powell is tactically naive and dave jones is tactically astute. Firstly Jones made a gamble (when they had nothing to lose) which paid off for them, so yes credit to him.
However Powell has won more games than Jones this year - so if for those who think that is the main point about winning or losing games why is jones suddenly better than Powell. I know who i am backing, 100%.
You misunderstand, nobody is saying that Jones is better than Powell, we are merely pointing out that Jones won the game for them with well timed and constructed substitutions, and unfortunately ( in our opinion ) Powell failed to realise the need until the 88th minute, which of course was far too late. It is however comforting to be told that we make you laugh, most of us were not doing the same.
The ball was not only coming straight back, but Llera was able to waltz into our half in possesion. We were just inviting pressure and it made us get deeper and deeper and deeper.
CP had both Fuller and BWP to bring on.
Fuller could have held the ball up, given Llera and their other centre half something to think about rather than allow them to camp on the half way line.
or
BWP could have run the channel, pulled Llera about a bit, win a throwing or a free kick, let our defence get up.
This isnt hindsight, this is calling it at the time.
If you have your two banks of four or a four and five, then you can defend as an organised unit. But the striker(s) has to do a job the last 10 mins in that he releives pressure and allows to regroup. It allows us to play further up the pitch.
Bringing Dervite on for Stephens would have meant us sitting back even more in my opinion and Stephens was doing ok and retaining possession well.
Agree Fuller for Yann was a possibility Gary, but Hamer would still have flapped for the goal.
I think CP has just left himself open for a bit of criticism with not making a single change. I love him, but i think most of whats been said on here has been positive criticism and a fans right to hope that if in the same situation again, he does make a call.
Hamer made a couple of saves, one down to his left was a good save, before they scored and i thought that may have set alarm bells ringing for a change in personel.
The fresh legs upfront would have rushed their back four (centre halfs especially) in possesion and not allowed them to walk into our half with the ball, as well as giving an option to our fullbacks and midfield.
We move on and we learn, hopefully in time for Palace!
People are praising Jones's subs - but he had to make a change, his team were losing and running out of ideas.
He got lucky
my only thought is that some players get stage fright in front of the home crowd. away there is less pressure and the crowd are not so easy to hear if things aren't going right. when things start going well, the hundreds of faithful fans that we take away, make themselves heard and spur the team on. if at home 2-3k+ plastics start complaining it may get to the players?
Powell is doing the right thing. He has us in mid-table. i'd have taken that pre-season and i'd take that now and at end of season. We don't have the squad for play-offs, we all know that. there are far better squads in this league that we are competing with. SISS.
I wouldn't have brought Greeen on to DEFEND a 1-0 lead, I would have brought Fuller & Harriott to SECURE a 2-0 win !!!!!!!
Against cardiff even a 3 goal advantage was close to not being enough...............
Appalling quality.
As for CP, still love the fella but he needs to learn fast. If 16k home supporters (most of who go every week) can see it why can't he, we needed freshening up with 15 minutes to go. He lost that match IMO. I will be back next year, when I hope CP is still there and more importantly the club is. Now for the Palarse!
Against cardiff even a 3 goal advantage was close to not being enough...............
No reason at all Golfie, but there's no guarantee you are gonna get a second.
It's a judgement call and I'll I would say is I could understand why he didn't on this occasion for the reasons Garymanilow expressed better than I can.