sorry - couldn't help it after reading all the "posted without prior reading" stuff & think I'll have to do the same if comments from Off It have to be believed............
not going to say anything different to what the vast majority of posters have already said...............heard a very apt song today - "you aint got a clue" - should have been sung to our manager. EVERYONE (except Off-it) could see that Kermy was knackered after 80 mins and the game was very open - at least 3 times JJ tried breaking onto a long punt but didn;t have the legs - just wonder how LLera would have coped with Fuller or BWP or Harriott chasing him instead.
we had 5 (FIVE) subs that could have been used at any time during the match and decided to use them when is was too late - Dave Jones knew how to play it & he played his cards well......................I wonder if it was a co-incidence that one of their fresh legged subs scored the winner !!
If Powell didnt make a sub and Waggy scored his chance where he hit the post, not one person on here would talk about Powells tactical naivety. Quite umbelievable how harshly some people are talking about powell. Lets not forget without that man we would be in league one playing Crawley and Stevanage.
If Waggy had scored it would be a totally different situation (that's no dig at Scotty, he was unlucky not to score.) We'd be 2-0 up, Wednesday would have needed two goals, they would have to commit, they would tire and be more vulnerable on the break, etc etc. Instead we had only the 1-0 lead for them to chase, they kept coming, slowly, not very stylishly but persistently, we started backing off, one goal was almost inevitable, two were a kick in the dangly bits.
Yes SCP got us out of League One but it's a step up for a manager just as much as player in the Champ. Chris Powell has got it wrong before, he's learned from those mistakes. He got it WRONG today, simple as. He's a very promising young manager but he is not flawless. Hopefully he will recognise what went wrong for all parties involved and sort it out.
If Powell didnt make a sub and Waggy scored his chance where he hit the post, not one person on here would talk about Powells tactical naivety. Quite umbelievable how harshly some people are talking about powell. Lets not forget without that man we would be in league one playing Crawley and Stevanage.
Sorry I have always said he is tactically naive, but is great a motivating his players which is why he can change games at half time but less often during play
There is way too much use of words / phrases like "hindsight" and "easy to be wise afterwards" here I'm afraid. This is the POST-match thread for Christ's sake. The whole point of it is surely to discuss what went wrong and where, and how it could've been avoided. Yet any criticisms are consistently met with accusations of people making knee-jerk reactions after one bad result. Don't bother coming on this thread if you don't want to read analysis of the game, positive OR negative.
I'm sorry, but myself and the bloke who sit next to me were both saying from 70 odd mins that we needed to change it, Wilson and Kermogant looked knackered, and we desperately needed some pace. Especially once we equalised. We were penned back and couldn't get out. And I could hear many others saying the same thing. I probably sound like a know-it-all, and clearly in reality I am a supporter and Chris Powell is a very talented and intelligent professional footballer manager. I absolutely love him to bits and would quite happily give him a contract for life right now. But I just find it confusing why such a well-considered and adept manager didn't make any changes, again, under those circumstances. Maybe there's a more complex rationale than I realise but I'd be interested to hear what it is. When in leading positions, I think Powell only appears to consider the defensive nature of hanging onto leads (i.e. sticking extra defenders behind the ball), and doesn't perhaps contemplate the benefits of making constructive attacking substitutions to ease pressure on the defence. Not always the way of course, but sometimes maybe... I'm sure he will look at himself and learn from it all though. And I genuinely fancy us to produce something next week at Palace.
No fault of the eleven out there who ran their balls dry, however on a boggy/heavy pitch you expect your manager to use all 3 subs against a physical side with 20 mins to go, despite your being one up, five up or two down.
Sorry Powell, but you have to take this this one on the chin, and don't make the same mistake twice.
No fault of the eleven out there who ran their balls dry, however on a boggy/heavy pitch you expect your manager to use all 3 subs against a physical side with 20 mins to go, despite your being one up, five up or two down.
Sorry Powell, but you have to take this this one on the chin, and don't make the same mistake twice.
Utter abortion of a game. You've all made the correct points about the lack of ambition (1-1 and we still didn't bring Fuller on!!!!) and the lack of will to entertain. All I have to add is....sort the f*cking pitch out. The worst playing surface I have ever seen at The Valley and it's not helping the entertainment, let alone helping the players.
SW are the worst footballing side I have seen this season. They will stay up as they play hoof ball and are a strong physical side.
Yet we've won you twice and mullered you in stats in both games!
No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games, our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing, you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
Thought the ref had a good game and let the game flow. Sitting back and not making a change in the last 15 minutes cost us the game. I looked over a couple of times in the second half to see if anyone was warming up and couldn't see anyone. Surely even if you don't intend using them they should be ready to come on at anytime. Even when CP made the changes, Green was still getting changed.
1: Yet we've won you twice and mullered you in stats in both games!
2: No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games,
our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
3: I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing,
4: you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
5: By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
1. Can't argue, in the end it's the goals that matter and you scored more on the day. Well done.
2. I can see why. You're a big physical bully of a side. Hard to break down and beat but today we should've do so.
3. We had a couple of very good chances to put the game to bed before you even got a decent shot on goal.
4. I would be interested to see those stats broken down into 15 minute segments. Meshing all 90 minutes together doesn't give you the full picture. You can never trust BBC stats anyway. We had one game last season at home to Rochdale or some other and the beeb gave them something like 68% possession...
5. I haven't seen anyone using the pitch as an excuse. People are saying our manager should've played the conditions as well as your manager did.
There is way too much use of words / phrases like "hindsight" and "easy to be wise afterwards" here I'm afraid. This is the POST-match thread for Christ's sake. The whole point of it is surely to discuss what went wrong and where, and how it could've been avoided. Yet any criticisms are consistently met with accusations of people making knee-jerk reactions after one bad result. Don't bother coming on this thread if you don't want to read analysis of the game, positive OR negative.
I'm sorry, but myself and the bloke who sit next to me were both saying from 70 odd mins that we needed to change it, Wilson and Kermogant looked knackered, and we desperately needed some pace. Especially once we equalised. We were penned back and couldn't get out. And I could hear many others saying the same thing. I probably sound like a know-it-all, and clearly in reality I am a supporter and Chris Powell is a very talented and intelligent professional footballer manager. I absolutely love him to bits and would quite happily give him a contract for life right now. But I just find it confusing why such a well-considered and adept manager didn't make any changes, again, under those circumstances. Maybe there's a more complex rationale than I realise but I'd be interested to hear what it is. When in leading positions, I think Powell only appears to consider the defensive nature of hanging onto leads (i.e. sticking extra defenders behind the ball), and doesn't perhaps contemplate the benefits of making constructive attacking substitutions to ease pressure on the defence. Not always the way of course, but sometimes maybe... I'm sure he will look at himself and learn from it all though. And I genuinely fancy us to produce something next week at Palace.
Would that over the top tackle in the 3rd min have been a sending off later in the game ?
Looked like an off to me, but I was at the back of the upper.
Thought it was a red, just wrong time for it being a red, if you know what I mean. Was it the same player who went through one of ours over by the west stand about 20 mins later?
SW are the worst footballing side I have seen this season. They will stay up as they play hoof ball and are a strong physical side.
Yet we've won you twice and mullered you in stats in both games!
No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games, our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing, you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
I consider myself to be very tolerant, but I have to say that you really are beginning to irritate me. What is your problem? You're really not very bright are you?
Read the following comment very carefully;
I agree with the points you've made above. Most of it is fairly factual. Nevertheless, you are the worst footballing side I've seen at the Valley this season. You'll stay up.
I'm not gonna go on about the game too much, obviously disappointing to lose and I thought 1-1 would have been about right.
But the subs thing I'm definitely on Powell's side. Our current 11 midfield and forward line up is the best we have to offer. The game was tight and for the life of me I just couldn't see where he could have made the change other than in defence.
Yann was having a blinder, Wilson and Solly work brilliantly together and there is no way Powell trusts Green to defend a 1-0. Waggy ran his nuts off and played well and we were starting to get dominated in the middle so it was either go 4-4-2 or bring on a b rate midfielder. I was quite happy to keep it as we were as thought we would hang on.
And if Hamer hadn't had one of his all too frequent crazy flapping around in no mans land we would have won the game.
That was a dreadful display and one of the worst 45mins from any team (and i include both) i have seen in a long time.
I said to my son after 80 mins were going to lose this cos so many balls were coming into our box, cos we had no craft in midfield that could hold on to it and spray a few balls around.
This game needed subs so we could have given lliera and gardner a hard time, only piece of football in the game from us led to our goal, after that it was just hoof it up to Kermogant.
Cort should have come on in the last 10 to help our the defence if we were just going to sit back and invite them on.
Just hope the jokers who think we are capable of a play off spot revaluate their position.
And also those who goaded wednesday on here prior to the match are eating large bits of humble pie.
SW are the worst footballing side I have seen this season. They will stay up as they play hoof ball and are a strong physical side.
Yet we've won you twice and mullered you in stats in both games!
No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games, our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing, you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
How's your "I'm to busy Saturday night to come to the game" evening going?
Not going to talk about Wednesday as quite frankly I've had enough of them on CL of late, but would agree that CP's weakness as a manager is his substitutions - and this isn't a 'Monday morning quarterback' post as I said the same thing after the home game with Walsall last year (which we won)! It's frustrating because how often do we see games where teams bring on pace up front after 70-odd minutes when they're leading, not just to give their own defenders a better outlet when they're under the cosh, but to stretch the oppo defence when they're that little bit more tired? We don't do that enough, and Fuller would have been good for that today - a physical presence but also pace and skill which would have given them a lot more to think about. And also frustrating because last week CP was saying that he looked at our bench at Blackburn and thought we have quite a tidy squad - that's all very well, but he's got to trust them and use them. Subs make a difference in the modern 7-sub game more than they've ever done - ok, not quite the same, granted, but how often does someone like Dzeko come off the bench and score?
Having said all that, would still say that CP's doing an incredible job and getting the most out of his players under not the easiest of circumstances, and there's no other manager I would want to see at our club.
9foot seven northern fuckiing pit props and we --------------predictably put the ball in the air----------------only time we play it on the floor and we score-------------------then predictably we drop deeper and deeper---------------------right out of the Curbs book off boolox.
Sorry CP making 3 changes in injury time is taking the pi55 out off everyone who went today------------just lake saying " you want changes ? have that then !!"
yes i know he walks on water blah naffing blah ------but today this was a result of CPs inexperience and its at his door.
Total garbage aginst a team on total KAK
Northern Pit Prop Tossers like every one of their fans----ok Bubble
Won't see many worse sides than Wednesday this season. Makes it so frustrating that we've been done twice by them this season. I'm still angry now.
You can't blame any individuals for the result. They all worked hard but holding out for a 1-0 is fatal. How many times have we won 1-0 this season? Not many. Bringing on three subs in the 92nd minute is desperate.
Best player was Wagstaff. Stephens the biggest underachiever - more interested in going backwards when we needed a second.
In home games, Powell has to learn at 1-0 you always need a second goal. One is never enough.
Won't see many worse sides than Wednesday this season. Makes it so frustrating that we've been done twice by them this season. I'm still angry now.
You can't blame any individuals for the result. They all worked hard but holding out for a 1-0 is fatal. How many times have we won 1-0 this season? Not many. Bringing on three subs in the 92nd minute is desperate.
Best player was Wagstaff. Stephens the biggest underachiever - more interested in going backwards when we needed a second.
In home games, Powell has to learn at 1-0 you always need a second goal. One is never enough.
hard to go forward if you have nobody to pass to Kermy
hard work and effort can only get you so far and today was a game too far
as a squad we aren't strong enough to be pushinf for the play offs and without SCP in charge this team would struggle to stay up
on to todays drab encounter , basically both teams were pony with antonio the only real bright spark for them and the fittest man of the lot waggy shining like a beacon in our bland team
substitution wise i can see both sides of the mass debate but i'm on the we have what we hold mentality so no need to change it ....but with the only fact being known that that didn't work so that was wrong today!
i though wednesdays best spell was a 10 minute burst soon after we scored when they attacked a few times with shots missing narrowly or saved from cutting in from their left hand side then the game calmed down and we could have added further
i thought the midfield as a whole(waggy apart) for 90 minutes were not as productive as i would have hoped running at a team with their limited defensive ability
i think we are a limited team that could go on a long winless streak if we don't all play 100% because we can not afford for anyone to be off their game and today from the beginning hamer was not on his game and the hesitancy flappyness spead through our defence .
0% top 6 ......... 35% 7th-12th ......... 60% 13th-21st ............5% drop me out
9foot seven northern fuckiing pit props and we --------------predictably put the ball in the air----------------only time we paly it on the floor and we score-------------------the predictably we drop deeper and deeper---------------------right out of the Curbs book off boolox.
Sorry CP making 3 changes in injury time is taking the pi55 out off everyone who went today------------just lake saying " you want changes ? have that then !!"
yes i know he walks on water blah naffing blah ------but today this was a result of CPs inexperience and its at his door.
Total garbage aginst a team on total KAK
Northern Pit Prop Tossers like every oe of the fans----ok Bubble
Sorry pal - I didn't quote the post correctly - my bit was only the last sentence
Comments
not going to say anything different to what the vast majority of posters have already said...............heard a very apt song today - "you aint got a clue" - should have been sung to our manager. EVERYONE (except Off-it) could see that Kermy was knackered after 80 mins and the game was very open - at least 3 times JJ tried breaking onto a long punt but didn;t have the legs - just wonder how LLera would have coped with Fuller or BWP or Harriott chasing him instead.
we had 5 (FIVE) subs that could have been used at any time during the match and decided to use them when is was too late - Dave Jones knew how to play it & he played his cards well......................I wonder if it was a co-incidence that one of their fresh legged subs scored the winner !!
Yes SCP got us out of League One but it's a step up for a manager just as much as player in the Champ. Chris Powell has got it wrong before, he's learned from those mistakes. He got it WRONG today, simple as. He's a very promising young manager but he is not flawless. Hopefully he will recognise what went wrong for all parties involved and sort it out.
I'm sorry, but myself and the bloke who sit next to me were both saying from 70 odd mins that we needed to change it, Wilson and Kermogant looked knackered, and we desperately needed some pace. Especially once we equalised. We were penned back and couldn't get out. And I could hear many others saying the same thing. I probably sound like a know-it-all, and clearly in reality I am a supporter and Chris Powell is a very talented and intelligent professional footballer manager. I absolutely love him to bits and would quite happily give him a contract for life right now. But I just find it confusing why such a well-considered and adept manager didn't make any changes, again, under those circumstances. Maybe there's a more complex rationale than I realise but I'd be interested to hear what it is. When in leading positions, I think Powell only appears to consider the defensive nature of hanging onto leads (i.e. sticking extra defenders behind the ball), and doesn't perhaps contemplate the benefits of making constructive attacking substitutions to ease pressure on the defence. Not always the way of course, but sometimes maybe... I'm sure he will look at himself and learn from it all though. And I genuinely fancy us to produce something next week at Palace.
Sorry Powell, but you have to take this this one on the chin, and don't make the same mistake twice.
No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games, our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing, you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
2. I can see why. You're a big physical bully of a side. Hard to break down and beat but today we should've do so.
3. We had a couple of very good chances to put the game to bed before you even got a decent shot on goal.
4. I would be interested to see those stats broken down into 15 minute segments. Meshing all 90 minutes together doesn't give you the full picture. You can never trust BBC stats anyway. We had one game last season at home to Rochdale or some other and the beeb gave them something like 68% possession...
5. I haven't seen anyone using the pitch as an excuse. People are saying our manager should've played the conditions as well as your manager did.
Looked like an off to me, but I was at the back of the upper.
As you say though, later in the game the ref may have looked at it differently.
Read the following comment very carefully;
I agree with the points you've made above. Most of it is fairly factual. Nevertheless, you are the worst footballing side I've seen at the Valley this season. You'll stay up.
Got that? Now please go home - if you have one.
But the subs thing I'm definitely on Powell's side. Our current 11 midfield and forward line up is the best we have to offer. The game was tight and for the life of me I just couldn't see where he could have made the change other than in defence.
Yann was having a blinder, Wilson and Solly work brilliantly together and there is no way Powell trusts Green to defend a 1-0. Waggy ran his nuts off and played well and we were starting to get dominated in the middle so it was either go 4-4-2 or bring on a b rate midfielder. I was quite happy to keep it as we were as thought we would hang on.
And if Hamer hadn't had one of his all too frequent crazy flapping around in no mans land we would have won the game.
I said to my son after 80 mins were going to lose this cos so many balls were coming into our box, cos we had no craft in midfield that could hold on to it and spray a few balls around.
This game needed subs so we could have given lliera and gardner a hard time, only piece of football in the game from us led to our goal, after that it was just hoof it up to Kermogant.
Cort should have come on in the last 10 to help our the defence if we were just going to sit back and invite them on.
Just hope the jokers who think we are capable of a play off spot revaluate their position.
And also those who goaded wednesday on here prior to the match are eating large bits of humble pie.
Yet we've won you twice and mullered you in stats in both games!
No offence mate you need to get realistic, we've lost once in 8 games, our last away defeat was on the 2nd of December 1-0 at Cardiff, a game we really should of got something out of.
I'll agree that you did hit the woodwork and had one or two half chances but apart from that you did nothing, you're the home team too, we had 15 shots to your 6 and more possession then you, and you say we played hoof ball all game?see the stats on the game.
By the way those going on about the pitch, we had to play on it too.
How's your "I'm to busy Saturday night to come to the game" evening going?
Having said all that, would still say that CP's doing an incredible job and getting the most out of his players under not the easiest of circumstances, and there's no other manager I would want to see at our club.
Sorry CP making 3 changes in injury time is taking the pi55 out off everyone who went today------------just lake saying " you want changes ? have that then !!"
yes i know he walks on water blah naffing blah ------but today this was a result of CPs inexperience
and its at his door.
Total garbage aginst a team on total KAK
Northern Pit Prop Tossers like every one of their fans----ok Bubble
You can't blame any individuals for the result. They all worked hard but holding out for a 1-0 is fatal. How many times have we won 1-0 this season? Not many. Bringing on three subs in the 92nd minute is desperate.
Best player was Wagstaff. Stephens the biggest underachiever - more interested in going backwards when we needed a second.
In home games, Powell has to learn at 1-0 you always need a second goal. One is never enough.
as a squad we aren't strong enough to be pushinf for the play offs and without SCP in charge this team would struggle to stay up
on to todays drab encounter , basically both teams were pony with antonio the only real bright spark for them and the fittest man of the lot waggy shining like a beacon in our bland team
substitution wise i can see both sides of the mass debate but i'm on the we have what we hold mentality so no need to change it ....but with the only fact being known that that didn't work so that was wrong today!
i though wednesdays best spell was a 10 minute burst soon after we scored when they attacked a few times with shots missing narrowly or saved from cutting in from their left hand side then the game calmed down and we could have added further
i thought the midfield as a whole(waggy apart) for 90 minutes were not as productive as i would have hoped running at a team with their limited defensive ability
i think we are a limited team that could go on a long winless streak if we don't all play 100% because we can not afford for anyone to be off their game and today from the beginning hamer was not on his game and the hesitancy flappyness spead through our defence .
0% top 6 ......... 35% 7th-12th ......... 60% 13th-21st ............5% drop me out