You're too kind to them, cafckev. Curb_it is correct - any minor issue is something major for southeastern. Last week in a brief flurry of snow they cancelled several trains. Although a fast train threw caution to the wind and somehow ploughed on through...
I am a little confused. Why are they getting stick because the line is closed because of a fire? The fire brigade normally turn up and say we need the line closed for safety, they tell Network rail to close the line down, which they do.
Not saying the fire is their fault or that they haven't done what they needed to but that fire in Bexleyheath is apparently causing major disruption on the Bexleyheath line, the Hayes line, the Sidcup line, the Greenwich line and the bloody Ashford line!!
I am a little confused. Why are they getting stick because the line is closed because of a fire? The fire brigade normally turn up and say we need the line closed for safety, they tell Network rail to close the line down, which they do. How are Southeastern supposed to run trains? They can arrange buses, which normally takes a couple of hours because the buses have to sort out drivers and spare buses etc. Because the line is closed, the rolling stock and crews are in the wrong places. You don't just jump on any train and drive it like a car. Drivers from different areas drive different routes. A slade green driver isn't going to be able to drive trains down to Maidstone because he doesn't know the route/signals etc Sometimes, it just isn't their fault!
Kev you miss the point it is every single F@~king day. The fire was on the Bexleyheath line (my line). Now the flooding is also on that line. There is no way on earth a company that can run a service would let that affect almost every line going into and out of London. No other train company gets itself into such a F@~~ing mess day in day out.
I am genuinely concerned that South Eastern Trains are going to cause me to emulate Michael Douglas in Falling Down.
.
I share that concern....I work near their head office on Tooley Street and regularly toy with ideas of vengeance ranging in severity from sticking an A3 poster on their door with "Piss up in Brewery auditions this way" to an all out firebombing/ uzi wielding attack dependent on the level of their sheer and utter incompetence on that particular day.
Mind you i have just read this properly. You need 100,000 sigs for it to reach the House of Commons. Ahem.
Pretty useless then.
But it's got 2 and a half months left to run. If those of you on twitter who are pissed off with the service start linking to the petition with the hashtags like #southeastern, then other commuters who are searching to find out what's gone wrong today are more likely to see it and sign it.
There are a couple of southeastern twitter accounts already set up and they are sending it to anyone who hashtags southeastern and complains about them. So it is being done. But slowly.
A couple of things. I worked on the railway for 16 years, so I know a lot about how they operate. First, please remember that since privatisation a lot more layers of red tape and management are involved in everything. When I first started working for them, any information about late running trains was passed from station to station, and would them be announced. When I left, it was decided that the best way for station announcements would be to centralise them. So instead of me sitting in an office on the station at Sevenoaks making announcements to the passengers, a man sitting in an office in Orpington would make them. So any information about problems would be passed to him and not to each of the stations on the affected line. This would mean that most of the time the first the staff knew about it would be when the passengers heard it! Today at about the time of the line being closed, a lot of empty rolling stock would be going back to the various sidings. So to close a busy line, would mean lots of extra trains just sitting on the tracks causing more congestion, thus making the lines back up into London. Just because a train driver starts his shift at say Gillingham, it doesn't mean that is where he starts driving his first train of his shift. He may have to go up to London or Dartford. Sometimes because of line closers he can't get there. Also, remember just because you are just on your way to work, it doesn't mean the driver is. He may be at the end of his night shift and want to go home to bed. If he is due to come off his train at Dartford, he will, he can't help it if his relief isn't there. sometimes, he might offer to take the train a little further up the line, but he may be very sleepy, or have other things planned after his shift. So the train is cancelled because there isn't another driver to take the train. Things are not as simple as they Sam to be!
This Tuesday was a classic. The 'fast' train was delayed so i jumped on the cannon street one before as there would be more space. it broke down at hither green and the 'fast' train was stuck behind it. There was no way through so we all got off and got on another train from Hither green towards London on the sevenoaks line and the 'fast' train that @kbslittlesis was on had to drive up to hither green, tow the broken down train back to lee, then they had to get off. It took her 3 and a half hours to get to work. they were pretty apologetic, and trains breaking down, there is not a lot that they can do, but like soemone said above, there is no budget for maintenance on these trains since it was used up for the olympics so what can they expect?
What is massively frustrating for me, is the short trains EVERY night after 6.30pm. I travel home normally between 7 and 8pm and without fail the trains are 6 or 4 carriages and absolutely rammed. Do they think that rush hour finishes at 6pm?????
A train guard/station guy the other day confirmed to this young girl with her child that the train was going to lee despite me and others saying it wasn't. he confirmed 3 times it was. the doors shut and she was on a fast train to greenwich. he did not give a crap.
Kev I am sorry you are almost treating us like Southeastern do. We are not that stupid and yes sometimes a small problem can create bigger problems.
Please note I say can. southeastern just don't have a clue a small problem for them is the end of needing to operate normal services so they save money. End of.
At/with Networkrailwe have this meeting almost weekly. They are the only operator that we know of in Europe that have this appalling level of service backed up with almost ZERO public info for passengers.
Southern (the other branch of Southeastern) does not have the same daily problems but operates into the same stations.
I am sure you must also know that the number of stock on route is limited to the number of mixed line sidings that they can park in. In the case of Southeastern they have a high number of them all over the network so are not just tied to one or two lines. The fact that they seem happy to refuse to use them when needed to save cost moving of staff when needed is a sin.
South West who arguably have worse lines and stock never get this this bad on a daily basis. And they manage to tell paying customers what is happening. We are backing TFL to take control of Metro lines into Dartford.
last week I got on the 06.57am from Battle. An hour later I got off for a wee. Half hour after that I got off for a coffee. We eventually left at 08.59. Beat that !!
In 1992 I got the train at 6.00 in the morning once to be in the office at 7.00. Got 3 stops up the line to Lee and didn't move for 3 hours. To be fair, this was the day that a bomb exploded at London Bridge...
As Strasburger points out well, its not the odd issues that are the problem. That is always going to happen. Its the continued poor performance. I have not had a single journey to work in the past fortnight where my train has arrived near its expected time. Along with broken down trains etc, almost every day you queue from New Cross to London Bridge just to congestion. But its ok, because South Eastern tweeted me to reassure they have plans in place to make it better in 3 years time.....
joke service where the cost goes up every single year.
The H&S have fucked everything.A lot of things you could work round now involve shutting half the network.The old way was the train would always try to get through unless it was a complete disaster,now any excuse and the trains stop.
Kev I am sorry you are almost treating us like Southeastern do. We are not that stupid and yes sometimes a small problem can create bigger problems.
Please note I say can. southeastern just don't have a clue a small problem for them is the end of needing to operate normal services so they save money. End of.
At/with Networkrailwe have this meeting almost weekly. They are the only operator that we know of in Europe that have this appalling level of service backed up with almost ZERO public info for passengers.
Southern (the other branch of Southeastern) does not have the same daily problems but operates into the same stations.
I am sure you must also know that the number of stock on route is limited to the number of mixed line sidings that they can park in. In the case of Southeastern they have a high number of them all over the network so are not just tied to one or two lines. The fact that they seem happy to refuse to use them when needed to save cost moving of staff when needed is a sin.
South West who arguably have worse lines and stock never get this this bad on a daily basis. And they manage to tell paying customers what is happening. We are backing TFL to take control of Metro lines into Dartford.
This wouldn't happen in the old British Rail days as money was never a problem. We has spare capacity in both rolling stock and train crew. I remember sitting at both Orpington and Tonbridge where they would have at least 3 or 4 drivers sitting around drinking tea as they were the spare crew in case anything went wrong. With in a year of privatisation they were gone, as it wasn't value for money and shareholders would loss out!
Yes, siding are normally equal to stock, but again as a cost cutting exercise, they were on the main centralised, such as Gillingham, Dartford and Slade Green in that area but at the loss of more local areas such as Swanley, or reduction like Sevenoaks so unless they can get the stock to the depot, what's the point of having them!
Just be happy you didnt get up at 7am this morning hoping to travel from Devon to London. Track flooded at Dawlish... was going to have to wait until low tide at 11am to see if it was passable. Couldnt risk 4 days of no trains again so had to spend £50 on a taxi to Exeter to bypass the floods. 3 1/2 hours late I finally got to London and had another 45 min delay on the bedford line due to a trackside fire. At mums now for 2 weeks of home cooking, so alls well in the end
As Strasburger points out well, its not the odd issues that are the problem. That is always going to happen. Its the continued poor performance. I have not had a single journey to work in the past fortnight where my train has arrived near its expected time. Along with broken down trains etc, almost every day you queue from New Cross to London Bridge just to congestion. But its ok, because South Eastern tweeted me to reassure they have plans in place to make it better in 3 years time.....
joke service where the cost goes up every single year.
But why is it Southeastern fault that there isn't enough capacity. Ultimately it's a Network Rail or Political matter.
If you are on a coach going to an away game, that is delayed at the Dartford tunnel because so many people are all trying to go through at once, do you blame the coach driver or coach company? No, you'd blame the tunnel operator. You wouldn't blame the coach company because they are only providing the vehicle to get you there and not responsible for the roads etc!
Kev I am sorry you are almost treating us like Southeastern do. We are not that stupid and yes sometimes a small problem can create bigger problems.
Please note I say can. southeastern just don't have a clue a small problem for them is the end of needing to operate normal services so they save money. End of.
At/with Networkrailwe have this meeting almost weekly. They are the only operator that we know of in Europe that have this appalling level of service backed up with almost ZERO public info for passengers.
Southern (the other branch of Southeastern) does not have the same daily problems but operates into the same stations.
I am sure you must also know that the number of stock on route is limited to the number of mixed line sidings that they can park in. In the case of Southeastern they have a high number of them all over the network so are not just tied to one or two lines. The fact that they seem happy to refuse to use them when needed to save cost moving of staff when needed is a sin.
South West who arguably have worse lines and stock never get this this bad on a daily basis. And they manage to tell paying customers what is happening. We are backing TFL to take control of Metro lines into Dartford.
This wouldn't happen in the old British Rail days as money was never a problem. We has spare capacity in both rolling stock and train crew. I remember sitting at both Orpington and Tonbridge where they would have at least 3 or 4 drivers sitting around drinking tea as they were the spare crew in case anything went wrong. With in a year of privatisation they were gone, as it wasn't value for money and shareholders would loss out!
Yes, siding are normally equal to stock, but again as a cost cutting exercise, they were on the main centralised, such as Gillingham, Dartford and Slade Green in that area but at the loss of more local areas such as Swanley, or reduction like Sevenoaks so unless they can get the stock to the depot, what's the point of having them!
Again this comes back down to Southeastern being in a league on their own. I have on a number of times this year from my office seen South West stacking out of service trains onto one line out of Waterloo and up to Vauxhall and the drivers coming back down the line in high vis or waiting with the trains. This removes up-to 10 trains until a backlog can be unback-logged. SouthEastern have the same options open to them (infact they could get upto 15 trains) between London Bridge and Bricklayers Arms depot and or even Spa Road (where drivers can use the rest post) yes this takes out one up-down line and would mean delays of around 5 mins for running trains but has to be better than the 20-30 mins that are all the more common. That is just one example as they can also use the Cannon St - Blackfiers loop to much better effect (again would bring around 5 mins delay to Thameslink services (that is an other story for a different day) and park more trains out of the way for limited time until backlog is cleared. The fact that this means putting hand in pocket means that they just don't care.
The reason the other services just don't suffer the same problems is quite simple. Its us. Go to any other station when things are running bad and see what the other customers are doing. We simply stand around huffing and puffing.
I was going to do a light-hearted 'anorak' style post today about it being London Bridge Station's birthday (opened 14/12/1846) but I get the feeling it wouldn't be appreciated!! Hope they sort it out for you all.
Comments
No more excuses time for a change.
That's going too far, isn't it?
Is it?
There are a couple of southeastern twitter accounts already set up and they are sending it to anyone who hashtags southeastern and complains about them. So it is being done. But slowly.
First, please remember that since privatisation a lot more layers of red tape and management are involved in everything.
When I first started working for them, any information about late running trains was passed from station to station, and would them be announced. When I left, it was decided that the best way for station announcements would be to centralise them. So instead of me sitting in an office on the station at Sevenoaks making announcements to the passengers, a man sitting in an office in Orpington would make them. So any information about problems would be passed to him and not to each of the stations on the affected line. This would mean that most of the time the first the staff knew about it would be when the passengers heard it!
Today at about the time of the line being closed, a lot of empty rolling stock would be going back to the various sidings. So to close a busy line, would mean lots of extra trains just sitting on the tracks causing more congestion, thus making the lines back up into London.
Just because a train driver starts his shift at say Gillingham, it doesn't mean that is where he starts driving his first train of his shift. He may have to go up to London or Dartford. Sometimes because of line closers he can't get there. Also, remember just because you are just on your way to work, it doesn't mean the driver is. He may be at the end of his night shift and want to go home to bed. If he is due to come off his train at Dartford, he will, he can't help it if his relief isn't there. sometimes, he might offer to take the train a little further up the line, but he may be very sleepy, or have other things planned after his shift. So the train is cancelled because there isn't another driver to take the train.
Things are not as simple as they Sam to be!
they were pretty apologetic, and trains breaking down, there is not a lot that they can do, but like soemone said above, there is no budget for maintenance on these trains since it was used up for the olympics so what can they expect?
What is massively frustrating for me, is the short trains EVERY night after 6.30pm. I travel home normally between 7 and 8pm and without fail the trains are 6 or 4 carriages and absolutely rammed. Do they think that rush hour finishes at 6pm?????
A train guard/station guy the other day confirmed to this young girl with her child that the train was going to lee despite me and others saying it wasn't. he confirmed 3 times it was. the doors shut and she was on a fast train to greenwich. he did not give a crap.
I'm on a bexleyheath train out of Charing X now and it's running on time.
Please note I say can. southeastern just don't have a clue a small problem for them is the end of needing to operate normal services so they save money. End of.
At/with Networkrailwe have this meeting almost weekly. They are the only operator that we know of in Europe that have this appalling level of service backed up with almost ZERO public info for passengers.
Southern (the other branch of Southeastern) does not have the same daily problems but operates into the same stations.
I am sure you must also know that the number of stock on route is limited to the number of mixed line sidings that they can park in. In the case of Southeastern they have a high number of them all over the network so are not just tied to one or two lines. The fact that they seem happy to refuse to use them when needed to save cost moving of staff when needed is a sin.
South West who arguably have worse lines and stock never get this this bad on a daily basis. And they manage to tell paying customers what is happening. We are backing TFL to take control of Metro lines into Dartford.
Kev you're a paramedic arent you? do you get a train to your base?
joke service where the cost goes up every single year.
Yes, siding are normally equal to stock, but again as a cost cutting exercise, they were on the main centralised, such as Gillingham, Dartford and Slade Green in that area but at the loss of more local areas such as Swanley, or reduction like Sevenoaks so unless they can get the stock to the depot, what's the point of having them!
If you are on a coach going to an away game, that is delayed at the Dartford tunnel because so many people are all trying to go through at once, do you blame the coach driver or coach company? No, you'd blame the tunnel operator. You wouldn't blame the coach company because they are only providing the vehicle to get you there and not responsible for the roads etc!
That is just one example as they can also use the Cannon St - Blackfiers loop to much better effect (again would bring around 5 mins delay to Thameslink services (that is an other story for a different day) and park more trains out of the way for limited time until backlog is cleared. The fact that this means putting hand in pocket means that they just don't care.
The reason the other services just don't suffer the same problems is quite simple. Its us. Go to any other station when things are running bad and see what the other customers are doing. We simply stand around huffing and puffing.