I have no objection to the idea of tolls but in the case of the Blackwall Tunnel I do. Why ? Because it’s a tax on living in East or South East London where there is no alternative but to use the tunnel without heading into central and west London where all the crossings are free. Toll all the crossings or none.
Cornish MP Sherll Murray has today asked at PMQs for the Tamar Toll to be removed.
Her argument was that this 'tax' made her part of Cornwall less competitive. She asked that 'levelling up' should be applied. Well if her argument is allowed to stand what about us poor SE Londoners? With tolls to apply at Blackwall, Silvertown and Dartford we are discriminated against. We too could do with some levelling up to our - North of the river - cousins.
Sorry but the charge will be both ways so level.
I assume this is in effect non negotiable as the financial model now likely requires the income.
What irks me most is the perception of deceit. Why not just be up front about it in advance of the build.
I do wonder why there can’t be a modest compromise of some form of discount for local residents (Greenwich, Bexley , Bromley and Lewisham who frankly have no choice relative to other London crossings).
They were. I worked on that project and it was clear right from the first consultation that Silvertown could only be funded through a toll on both the new tunnel and Blackwell. Lots of people objected to the proposal on that basis.
I don't particularly object to a toll on the crossings. I object to the fact that we were specifically told that the Dartford Crossing toll would be abolished once the construction costs were recouped. I also object to the fact that only the South East gets toll crossings. Go anywhere else along the Thames and you can cross for free. Put a toll on every crossing or none!
My dear old grandad will be turning in his grave! He was with Desmond Plummer (the then leader of the GLC) when the southbound tunnel was opened in 1967, he was Mayor of Greenwich at the time and a very proud Labour councillor and I can remember him saying how proud he was that this new tunnel will be good news for Greenwich and SE London in general. He was hopeful, at the time it would encourage more companies to come to the area as it helped to ease the traffic flow from just having the original tunnel running both ways. If he knew now it was being made a toll road he would be aghast, I'm sure. In fact the the Transport Minister ruled out it becoming a 'toll' road as the 'North Tunnel' was already an established route. I sometimes look back on Pathe News where I can see my grandad at the opening, its lovely to see and remember him.
Give it a few years, when we're all driving electric cars, all roads will be toll roads.
The government will have to replace the income from fuel duty, and as that can't be put on electricity without hitting domestic users as well, road tolling is the only answer. Modern electric vehicles are computer controlled and trackable, so your movements can easily be traced...
Give it a few years, when we're all driving electric cars, all roads will be toll roads.
The government will have to replace the income from fuel duty, and as that can't be put on electricity without hitting domestic users as well, road tolling is the only answer. Modern electric vehicles are computer controlled and trackable, so your movements can easily be traced...
Beat they improve the roads, as electric cars are heavier.
Give it a few years, when we're all driving electric cars, all roads will be toll roads.
The government will have to replace the income from fuel duty, and as that can't be put on electricity without hitting domestic users as well, road tolling is the only answer. Modern electric vehicles are computer controlled and trackable, so your movements can easily be traced...
Beat they improve the roads, as electric cars are heavier.
Electric cars require batteries and electricity and there won’t be enough of either being produced for everyone to switch to them. In all likelihood we will either have jumped to a next generation of transport or sustainable and efficient fuel before we reach a critical mass of electric cars on our roads to have made a difference; or petrol/diesel engines will be delivering significantly higher mpg in the near future to offset the commonly believed comparative benefit of electric cars.
Give it a few years, when we're all driving electric cars, all roads will be toll roads.
The government will have to replace the income from fuel duty, and as that can't be put on electricity without hitting domestic users as well, road tolling is the only answer. Modern electric vehicles are computer controlled and trackable, so your movements can easily be traced...
Beat they improve the roads, as electric cars are heavier.
Electric cars require batteries and electricity and there won’t be enough of either being produced for everyone to switch to them. In all likelihood we will either have jumped to a next generation of transport or sustainable and efficient fuel before we reach a critical mass of electric cars on our roads to have made a difference; or petrol/diesel engines will be delivering significantly higher mpg in the near future to offset the commonly believed comparative benefit of electric cars.
They better invent a Star Wars style land speeder pretty sharpish before the potholes become completely impassable to wheeled transport.
Cornish MP Sherll Murray has today asked at PMQs for the Tamar Toll to be removed.
Her argument was that this 'tax' made her part of Cornwall less competitive. She asked that 'levelling up' should be applied. Well if her argument is allowed to stand what about us poor SE Londoners? With tolls to apply at Blackwall, Silvertown and Dartford we are discriminated against. We too could do with some levelling up to our - North of the river - cousins.
Sorry but the charge will be both ways so level.
I assume this is in effect non negotiable as the financial model now likely requires the income.
What irks me most is the perception of deceit. Why not just be up front about it in advance of the build.
I do wonder why there can’t be a modest compromise of some form of discount for local residents (Greenwich, Bexley , Bromley and Lewisham who frankly have no choice relative to other London crossings).
They were. I worked on that project and it was clear right from the first consultation that Silvertown could only be funded through a toll on both the new tunnel and Blackwell. Lots of people objected to the proposal on that basis.
Well as a Bexley resident I don’t feel that I was warned or told in advance there would be a toll applied to the Blackwall tunnel.
It feels like new information.
That’s a failing of communication and how the ‘consultation’ process works.
I did deliberately use the word perception’ in my post too.
A consultation on plans to charge drivers for using the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels has been launched by Transport for London (TfL).
Charges are due to be introduced for both routes once the Silvertown Tunnel opens in spring 2025, with drivers having to pay to use the tunnels between 06:00 and 22:00, seven days a week.
Under TfL's proposals, driving cars and small vans through either of the tunnels at peak times would cost £4, with a £2.50 charge for motorbikes.
Ah the Fuck South London Toll I see, I get the toll for all the lorries and vans etc driving all the way through London to get to the Blackwall but £8 a day for someone who lives just South of the river and has to work just to the North of it is extortion
Ah the Fuck South London Toll I see, I get the toll for all the lorries and vans etc driving all the way through London to get to the Blackwall but £8 a day for someone who lives just South of the river and has to work just to the North of it is extortion
But live north of the river, and travel to South London for work and pay £5 less a day... Yeah that seems fair...
Well done Sadiq Khan plan coming together get them cars off the road so there’s less congestion for the rich and cyclists. There’s public transport for the poor can’t see a problem.
Well done Sadiq Khan plan coming together get them cars off the road so there’s less congestion for the rich and cyclists. There’s public transport for the poor can’t see a problem.
60% of Londoners Didnt bother voting in the Mayoral elections ( so i heard ) , so you pays your money ..... in this case £1.50 up to £10 . If the turnout was higher you never know , but as money talks, i expect all the other Partys would look at clawing money from the poor one way or anther .
Ah the Fuck South London Toll I see, I get the toll for all the lorries and vans etc driving all the way through London to get to the Blackwall but £8 a day for someone who lives just South of the river and has to work just to the North of it is extortion
Ah the Fuck South London Toll I see, I get the toll for all the lorries and vans etc driving all the way through London to get to the Blackwall but £8 a day for someone who lives just South of the river and has to work just to the North of it is extortion
But live north of the river, and travel to South London for work and pay £5 less a day... Yeah that seems fair...
Discounts and supporting measures
To help residents and businesses, and to support people to use new public transport connections , TfL has proposed a package of discounts and concessions to make the scheme as green and fair as possible.
Discounts include:
A 50 per cent discount for low-income drivers living in east London
A £1 discount on the standard off-peak charge for small businesses and charities in the host boroughs (RB Greenwich, LB Newham and LB Tower Hamlets)
A complete list of all proposed discounts, exemptions and reimbursements can be found on the ‘Discounts & Exemptions’ tab on this website.
Our green and fair package of supporting measures include:
New buses - 21 zero-emission buses (at tailpipe) per hour crossing the river at peak times (15 in the Silvertown Tunnel, six in the Blackwall Tunnel) including the SL4 Superloop route
Free cycle bus provision (at least 12 months) - A regular cross-river cycle shuttle-bus bus service through the Silvertown Tunnel for cyclists, free for at least 12 months
Bus concession to support local residents (at least 12 months) - Bus concessions, providing free trips to support local residents to use the new cross-river bus services which will run through the tunnel (Route 108, 129 and SL4)
Free DLR journeys (at least 12 months)- Free journeys on the DLR by refunding trips directly between the following station pairs:
We are holding a eight-week public consultation to hear what you think about these proposals. Please complete and return our consultation survey to share your views on our proposals. Importantly, if you think our proposals can be improved then please use the survey to explain what you think should be changed and how.
You can reply by completing our survey, which should take no more than ten minutes. The closing date for comments is Tuesday 3 September 2024.
To take part in our online survey you will need to register with your email address. Your details will be kept secure.
If you prefer, you can also let us have your comments by:
Telephone: 020 3054 6037 to leave your name and contact number and we will call you back. Please quote 'Tunnel Charges consultation' when leaving your message
Write to: FREEPOST TFL HAVE YOUR SAY no postage stamp required
Please note responses to the survey may be made publicly available after the consultation has closed, this would typically be in the form of a report on the results of the consultation exercise, but any personal information will be kept confidential. Your personal information will be properly safeguarded and processed in accordance with the requirements of privacy and data protection legislation. For further information, please visit our privacy policy. https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/tc-yourview
People who live east of the city will have to pay a toll to cross the Thames, its only fair that those living in the west of London should do the same.
I have no objection to the idea of tolls but in the case of the Blackwall Tunnel I do. Why ? Because it’s a tax on living in East or South East London where there is no alternative but to use the tunnel without heading into central and west London where all the crossings are free. Toll all the crossings or none.
This.
I live in Bromley. I have clients living in Finchley, Wanstead, East Ham, Enfield, Barnet & Elstree. To see them I either go via the M25 and have to pay the Dartford Crossing toll or through the Blackwall tunnel where there is now going to be a similar fee. Luckily my car is ULEZ compliant. But why should I have to pay a fee to drive to work ?
Oh..........and just to remember, there is no tube system in this part of London !!!
People who live east of the city will have to pay a toll to cross the Thames, its only fair that those living in the west of London should do the same.
This.
I wonder when Sadiq Khan will bring in a toll to cross Hammersmith Bridge, Chelsea Bridge, etc etc
A consultation on plans to charge drivers for using the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels has been launched by Transport for London (TfL).
Charges are due to be introduced for both routes once the Silvertown Tunnel opens in spring 2025, with drivers having to pay to use the tunnels between 06:00 and 22:00, seven days a week.
Under TfL's proposals, driving cars and small vans through either of the tunnels at peak times would cost £4, with a £2.50 charge for motorbikes.
People who live east of the city will have to pay a toll to cross the Thames, its only fair that those living in the west of London should do the same.
This.
I wonder when Sadiq Khan will bring in a toll to cross Hammersmith Bridge, Chelsea Bridge, etc etc
Ah the Fuck South London Toll I see, I get the toll for all the lorries and vans etc driving all the way through London to get to the Blackwall but £8 a day for someone who lives just South of the river and has to work just to the North of it is extortion
That's why there's a consultation There's a facility to appraise the proposer of issues and apparent unfairnesses. Raise your matter through the channel provided and with your local political representation - it's guaranteed to be a voter issue next time around. Maybe Sam3110 could spruce up their delivery a bit, profanity and paranoia don't go over well.
Devil's advocate and Sadiq Kahn will point out the public transport alternatives to being 'extorted £8/day' especially for residents close to the tunnels.
Unless Kahn really is the car hating uber-woke pro-cycling loony who is desperate to lose the next mayoral election, I'd venture to suggest that this initial 'proposal' is the worst case/maximum charges scenario. Any operator with any nouse will initially offer up something nasty so they look attentive and considerate when they enact something sweeter come the time.
Comments
The government will have to replace the income from fuel duty, and as that can't be put on electricity without hitting domestic users as well, road tolling is the only answer. Modern electric vehicles are computer controlled and trackable, so your movements can easily be traced...
A consultation on plans to charge drivers for using the Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels has been launched by Transport for London (TfL).
Charges are due to be introduced for both routes once the Silvertown Tunnel opens in spring 2025, with drivers having to pay to use the tunnels between 06:00 and 22:00, seven days a week.
Under TfL's proposals, driving cars and small vans through either of the tunnels at peak times would cost £4, with a £2.50 charge for motorbikes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn05y135947o
A consultation has launched today with proposed rates at:
Discounts and supporting measures
To help residents and businesses, and to support people to use new public transport connections , TfL has proposed a package of discounts and concessions to make the scheme as green and fair as possible.
Discounts include:
A complete list of all proposed discounts, exemptions and reimbursements can be found on the ‘Discounts & Exemptions’ tab on this website.
Our green and fair package of supporting measures include:
Only a few percent of Canary Wharf workers are highly paid bankers etc
Tell us your views
We are holding a eight-week public consultation to hear what you think about these proposals. Please complete and return our consultation survey to share your views on our proposals. Importantly, if you think our proposals can be improved then please use the survey to explain what you think should be changed and how.
You can reply by completing our survey, which should take no more than ten minutes. The closing date for comments is Tuesday 3 September 2024.
To take part in our online survey you will need to register with your email address. Your details will be kept secure.
If you prefer, you can also let us have your comments by:
https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/tc-yourview
Also known as a fait accompli or box ticking exercise. And they wonder why people get upset.
I live in Bromley. I have clients living in Finchley, Wanstead, East Ham, Enfield, Barnet & Elstree. To see them I either go via the M25 and have to pay the Dartford Crossing toll or through the Blackwall tunnel where there is now going to be a similar fee. Luckily my car is ULEZ compliant. But why should I have to pay a fee to drive to work ?
Oh..........and just to remember, there is no tube system in this part of London !!!
I wonder when Sadiq Khan will bring in a toll to cross Hammersmith Bridge, Chelsea Bridge, etc etc
OUTTRAGEOUS.
Edit.
Couldn't highlight the peak time bit. So basically a tax of people living south of the river who need to cross the Thames during the day.
But it will come soon enough.
There's a facility to appraise the proposer of issues and apparent unfairnesses.
Raise your matter through the channel provided and with your local political representation - it's guaranteed to be a voter issue next time around.
Maybe Sam3110 could spruce up their delivery a bit, profanity and paranoia don't go over well.
Devil's advocate and Sadiq Kahn will point out the public transport alternatives to being 'extorted £8/day' especially for residents close to the tunnels.
Unless Kahn really is the car hating uber-woke pro-cycling loony who is desperate to lose the next mayoral election, I'd venture to suggest that this initial 'proposal' is the worst case/maximum charges scenario. Any operator with any nouse will initially offer up something nasty so they look attentive and considerate when they enact something sweeter come the time.