It's typical. People will blame the keeper for the mistakes because you can easily quantify them. Look at any game where we haven't conceded. With very very few exceptions if at all he will have had to make a save. For every soft goal like the one at Bury, there's dozens of saves he's made, but sod it, why remember them? Let's just write him off. He has a lot to learn, which makes it good that we're in League One not about to play in the Champions League Final. He's had a good season in waht could every well be a title winning team, he'll go up to the Championship and he'll get better and better. Most keepers peak around 27/28, and they only improve with game time. A 13 point cushion is the best place to make mistakes. Beats bein 3 points adrift in the relegation zone
Hamer has made 3 mistakes in his last 2 games thathave cost us goals, but I can't think of too many incidences before that. The best approach is to shrug it off rather than dwell on it I would say. You dwell on it and it becomes a problem.
Really is not a better a keeper than Elliot. Elliot saved games for us, and was rarely a factor in us losing games... more down to an average central defence and walkabout fb's and midfielders.
I think Ben Hamer has potential. I do worry about how he sets himself to react to shots, he just seems to be too rigid and his reaction if the shot is unpredictable is almost non-existent. However I don't see the positioning problems that Carson had and has still, preventing him from being consistent in the prem. I can see him improving, but it is obvious a goalkeeper with matches under his belt needs to vy with him next season: It doesn't have to be a veteran, just someone whose got experience.
Hamer has made 3 mistakes in his last 2 games thathave cost us goals, but I can't think of too many incidences before that. The best approach is to shrug it off rather than dwell on it I would say. You dwell on it and it becomes a problem.
It's hard to judge him, as he doesn't have that many saves to make, so rarely has match winning displays, because he never has to...
We do have Ben Roberts who will work on this- all part of the learning experience for him and as long as nobody gets on his back, that is exactly what it will be.
Hamer has had 3 costly games for us, Orient/Colchester and Notts County. He normally commands his area well, don't think we've really seen enough of his shot stopping to tell us how good he really is as the defence has been so good this season, but at the away games I've heard he has made some great saves at times.
I like Hamer he clearly cares about playing for the club & is a character which i like, but more importantly he has made some important saves in the games i have seen this season, one that comes to mind is the fantastic save at 0 0 in the wendies away match which kept us in it when they were bombarding us the first 20 minutes in an attempt to bully us.
Should add i have only seen away matches this season for obvious reason, so i have possibly been spoiled as the team seem more confident when away from the valley in general this season.
Really is not a better a keeper than Elliot. Elliot saved games for us, and was rarely a factor in us losing games... more down to an average central defence and walkabout fb's and midfielders.
The long shot from distance was always Elliot's weakness - although on his day a brilliant shot stopper ... but never seemed to have quick feet. And sometimes hesitant and indecisive.
Hamer is much more naturally athletic than Elliot, but also seems susceptible to the long range effort.
But I'm sure Chris Powell would equally be barking at his midfield, for allowing the the time and space for opponents to get shots in from 20-30 yards.
I think it shows how reactionary people are. He had a number of shonky performances but got away with it and generally people pointed to the number of shut outs, the last few weeks he's really improved his command of the box and work on high balls, but these have co-incided with one obvious error and the rock solid pair in front of him having a serious offday.
Strange we all watch the same player but see him so differently. Personally I don't rate him but think he's probably better than Sullivan and we'll just have to see this season out with him. There are a few statements on this thread which I'd like to question: - 'He's 22/23' - no, he's 24 and will be 25 this year. The same age as Joe Hart. - 'Most keepers peak around 27/28' - we don't need someone at their peak just someone who is competent. Good keepers emerge at a far younger age than 27 anyway - Peter Shilton was playing for England at 21, Pat Jenning was Spurs No 1 at 20. Closer to home Bob Bolder started playing in Jack Charlton's Wednesday team that rose from the third to the first division in the 80s when he was 19. Rob Elliott was our first choice keeper at 21. It's crazy to keep suggesting Hamer is young. - 'For his age and at this level he's a very good keeper' - as above but also at this level, playing for the potential champions of League 1, I'd suggest he isn't that good. If you want to know what a very good keeper at this level is I'd suggest looking back at Norwich two years ago when they had Fraser Forster in goal. Now he was class (doing excellent stuff at Celtic currently though still with Newcastle) - 'He's saved us more points than he has lost us' - I really hope this is not seriously being suggested as the test of a good goalkeeper. How do you quantify it anyway? - 'He has pulled off some really class saves this season' - how many would that be exactly? - 'He'll probably end up in the Prem' - only if he's with a club that has run out of options
I think any more Hamer house of horror shows and its got to be sullivan. Powell is not afraid to drop out of form players so I would expect sooner rather than later if he can't turn it round
Sullivan ? God forbid
Really don't understand this anti Sullivan comment. Last season we were happy for him to replace Elliot and were happy for him to be 1st choice apparent until Hamer joined.
I'd be happy for Hamer to be rested for Sullivan to take the gloves,if he was good enough last season.
CP needs to rest Hamer for his own good as much as ours
The back four had a mare at the weekend, Taylor was appaling, his worse game for the club by miles, Morrison was carrying it, Wiggins and Solly were shite too.
What next comparing Hollands to Messi? He's always going to come off worst in any such comparison and I'd dispute that keepers reach their peak at around 27, most start late and peak a few years later. There are many good keepers still playing internationally and in the premiership when they are in their 30s. Edwin van der Sar just retired with a premiership winner's medal at the age of 40.
What next comparing Hollands to Messi? He's always going to come off worst in any such comparison and I'd dispute that keepers reach their peak at around 27, most start late and peak a few years later. There are many good keepers still playing internationally and in the premiership when they are in their 30s. Edwin van der Sar just retired with a premiership winner's medal at the age of 40.
Quite right. Lets just remind ourselves that Dean Kiely was 28 when he first joined us.
Far too much panicking going on, thankfully SCP isn't. If he thinks Hamer needs a rest, he'll do it. If not, I hope we get behind him.
If you're going to compare Ben Hamer to Peter Shilton and Joe Hart then there's just no bloody point anymore. Joe Hart is the goalkeeper for a team who could literally buy any player they want and he's England's number one. Peter Shilton is rightly recognised as one of the best keepers ever. If Hamer, a keeper for a L1 team was at their level then he wouldn't play for us, would he? Ludicrous argument. Should we get rid of Solly because Dani Alves scores more goals than him?
You're missing the point. My reference to Joe Hart and the others was not about comparing ability. It was to demonstrate that good goalkeepers don't wait until they're 27 or 28 to show what they can do. They show their worth from a young age as, with rare exceptions, all footballers and athletes do. If you think that Hamer is going to be a great goalkeeper you're entitled to that view. I don't. I think that what you see is what you're going to get - someone who panics and dithers and moves too late. Even by League 1 standards he's no better than average. We'd never seen him put under pressure until Saturday's game. I had a County supporter next to me in the East Stand. He said, "We think our keeper's rubbish but yours is worse." I had to agree with him.
This must be the 3rd/4th thread on this player in the past month. It is a nonsense.
Granpa I am sure CP is deeply upset you disagree with his persistence in selecting an underperforming player for so long. I usually avoid reading this web site after any defeat because there are so many that can barely wait to stick their oar in.
Granpa I believe you recently started a thread on peoples ability and experience in playing the game of football. After a bad week never was that background more relevant.
I was fortunate to represent NW Kent District school as a goalkeeper, but switched to Centre Half/ full back at College whilst on occasion playing up front. I played for Brett Sports (Kent league), Darenth Heathside as they moved up/ across Spartan, Greater London & Metropolitan Leagues before moving on to Tunbridge Wells (Kent League) and Crowborough Athletic (Sussex League).
As a player blessed with no pace and only a modicum of ability I operated on the basis that if it was smaller than me and if it looked like moving I would probably kick it. I was dropped more times than anyone on the planet and spent large part of seasons on the bench which was why with an increasingly troublesome back I moved into coaching at the age of 27 having taken my preliminary badge at Bisham Abbey whilst at college.
I mention this because I can honestly say having started on my FA residential course certain in the knowledge I knew this game I realized in one day just how little I really did know. Having subseqently spent 15yrs playing, coaching and managing at a senior level I like to think I learned a little more.
The analysis and comments on Hamer have been done to death. He has had a difficult week - that may or may not be due to him carrying an injury - but any clamour for his removal is shortsighted, inappropriate and will be counter productive in the long term.
God knows what some of you would have done with Charlie Wright after he let the balls slip through his legs (he was bandy) or Peter Wakeham as he was beaten by the umpteenth long distance strike (he was short sighted). Keepers make mistakes - for god sake get a grip.
Sadly (because I have enjoyed commenting over recent years) this will be final contribution to this board. For me the persistent negativity that seems to pervade so much of the input means it is no longer holds the pleasure it once did.
I most grateful to the organisers for their efforts in providing this valuable service. I wish them and it well.
Comments
I think Ben Hamer has potential. I do worry about how he sets himself to react to shots, he just seems to be too rigid and his reaction if the shot is unpredictable is almost non-existent. However I don't see the positioning problems that Carson had and has still, preventing him from being consistent in the prem. I can see him improving, but it is obvious a goalkeeper with matches under his belt needs to vy with him next season: It doesn't have to be a veteran, just someone whose got experience.
Should add i have only seen away matches this season for obvious reason, so i have possibly been spoiled as the team seem more confident when away from the valley in general this season.
The long shot from distance was always Elliot's weakness - although on his day a brilliant shot stopper ... but never seemed to have quick feet. And sometimes hesitant and indecisive.
Hamer is much more naturally athletic than Elliot, but also seems susceptible to the long range effort.
But I'm sure Chris Powell would equally be barking at his midfield, for allowing the the time and space for opponents to get shots in from 20-30 yards.
As he said on the OS, defending is a team game.
=
Sounds good though!
Unless it was a long range shot along the ground!
- 'He's 22/23' - no, he's 24 and will be 25 this year. The same age as Joe Hart.
- 'Most keepers peak around 27/28' - we don't need someone at their peak just someone who is competent. Good keepers emerge at a far younger age than 27 anyway - Peter Shilton was playing for England at 21, Pat Jenning was Spurs No 1 at 20. Closer to home Bob Bolder started playing in Jack Charlton's Wednesday team that rose from the third to the first division in the 80s when he was 19. Rob Elliott was our first choice keeper at 21. It's crazy to keep suggesting Hamer is young.
- 'For his age and at this level he's a very good keeper' - as above but also at this level, playing for the potential champions of League 1, I'd suggest he isn't that good. If you want to know what a very good keeper at this level is I'd suggest looking back at Norwich two years ago when they had Fraser Forster in goal. Now he was class (doing excellent stuff at Celtic currently though still with Newcastle)
- 'He's saved us more points than he has lost us' - I really hope this is not seriously being suggested as the test of a good goalkeeper. How do you quantify it anyway?
- 'He has pulled off some really class saves this season' - how many would that be exactly?
- 'He'll probably end up in the Prem' - only if he's with a club that has run out of options
Over to you.
lol
Mind you, that's not the only change I'd make...
I'd be happy for Hamer to be rested for Sullivan to take the gloves,if he was good enough last season.
CP needs to rest Hamer for his own good as much as ours
What next comparing Hollands to Messi? He's always going to come off worst in any such comparison and I'd dispute that keepers reach their peak at around 27, most start late and peak a few years later. There are many good keepers still playing internationally and in the premiership when they are in their 30s. Edwin van der Sar just retired with a premiership winner's medal at the age of 40.
Far too much panicking going on, thankfully SCP isn't. If he thinks Hamer needs a rest, he'll do it. If not, I hope we get behind him.
Granpa I am sure CP is deeply upset you disagree with his persistence in selecting an underperforming player for so long. I usually avoid reading this web site after any defeat because there are so many that can barely wait to stick their oar in.
Granpa I believe you recently started a thread on peoples ability and experience in playing the game of football. After a bad week never was that background more relevant.
I was fortunate to represent NW Kent District school as a goalkeeper, but switched to Centre Half/ full back at College whilst on occasion playing up front. I played for Brett Sports (Kent league), Darenth Heathside as they moved up/ across Spartan, Greater London & Metropolitan Leagues before moving on to Tunbridge Wells (Kent League) and Crowborough Athletic (Sussex League).
As a player blessed with no pace and only a modicum of ability I operated on the basis that if it was smaller than me and if it looked like moving I would probably kick it. I was dropped more times than anyone on the planet and spent large part of seasons on the bench which was why with an increasingly troublesome back I moved into coaching at the age of 27 having taken my preliminary badge at Bisham Abbey whilst at college.
I mention this because I can honestly say having started on my FA residential course certain in the knowledge I knew this game I realized in one day just how little I really did know. Having subseqently spent 15yrs playing, coaching and managing at a senior level I like to think I learned a little more.
The analysis and comments on Hamer have been done to death. He has had a difficult week - that may or may not be due to him carrying an injury - but any clamour for his removal is shortsighted, inappropriate and will be counter productive in the long term.
God knows what some of you would have done with Charlie Wright after he let the balls slip through his legs (he was bandy) or Peter Wakeham as he was beaten by the umpteenth long distance strike (he was short sighted). Keepers make mistakes - for god sake get a grip.
Sadly (because I have enjoyed commenting over recent years) this will be final contribution to this board. For me the persistent negativity that seems to pervade so much of the input means it is no longer holds the pleasure it once did.
I most grateful to the organisers for their efforts in providing this valuable service. I wish them and it well.
Grapevine49