Having thought he was a complete toss for the last few years, I think he is right in thinking the EC in/out debate is now wide open. Sarcasticzy dismissed our views as if we were a minor player. For the first time, I'm leaning towards the let's get out side. Any one else changing their views on Europe? Name one benefit right now. The money we would save would plug any short term loss of trade issues.
Comments
We appear to want all the advantages of a single market without the direction of travel that pretty much all the others have signed up to apart from us.
So whatever your view, which is typical of the majority of Brits, the fact is that those of major European countries like France and Germany for example, think differently.
I am a supporter of the EU although not a supporter of everything it does. Britain is isolated more now than ever. For the gung ho little englanders, this is a great position to be in - bashing Johnny Foreigner - yes its us against the world, bulldog spirit etc. Most business people will be dismayed at our isolation - the worst of all worlds - in it but not shaping its direction. No influence over the very thing we were trying to protect - the City. Even now Cameron is saying that they won't block the other 26 using the EU institutions to police the measures that he vetoed.
Cameron's use of the veto was absolutely cack-handed in the extreme. It has played into the hands of the isolationists/little englanders who will be even more emboldened, not bought off. A corollary to this positioning by Cameron is the affect it will have on the hand of Alex Salmond, who will be encourage to push further his Scotland Independent in Europe agenda.
As a Lib Dem (ducks for cover), I am dismayed that my leader allowed this positioning to happen without being directly involved on the night.
There is a day of reckoning coming when we will have an "in or out" referendum - bring it on I say. A real debate about whether our country should remain inside the tent p*ssing out or as UKIP and some Tories want, outside the tent p*ssing in needs to take place and the quicker the better. To that extent at least, Cameron's negotiating folly has perhaps brought that day closer and I welcome that at least.
In my view the paucity and lack of substance to Europhile arguments is demonstrated every time they hurl the insult "Little Englander" at anyone who disagrees with them.
They have nothing else.
When and if the EU s own auditors sign off their own accounts - i will perhaps have a little more faith in the institution.
The fact they havent done so for years demonstrates just how corrupt this fatally flawed idea has been for decades.
The initial idea of a common market / free trade idea clearly made a lot of sense - the fact is however that this was a lie from the beginning.
We now have an unelected political elite who want nothing mor than a federal united states of Europe - lets have the honest in / out debate?
No main stream politician will ever want the British people to vote on this issue - perhaps because they dont trust us enough to deliver what they think is right!
Farage can come across as a a fool at times - on this issue however i have to agree with his sentiments
Even the Charlton life organ of choice is talking about him
:-)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/dec/14/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-blog?commentpage=2#start-of-comments
I don't like the EU one little bit, but Farage and co are deluded (or lying) when they say we can stay in the common market but avoid everything else. It's not going to happen.
Also think people seriously underestimate just how (much more) buggered the economy will be when we pull out of the EU. Would make the last few years look like a boom.
Like everything in politics, every man is only in it for himself.
The UK needs out out out of the EEC NOW .. Germany and France in coalition have got what they have wanted since the days of Charlemagne .. a European empire. What Napoleon and Hitler failed to achieve by force of arms, a bunch of 'bankers' has achieved by use of increasingly worthless coins and paper. The other EEC members are either too small, politically and economically or too broke and corrupt to resist domination by the Germo/Franco axis. The French have always hated us politically speaking and the Germans have always been envious of us. The most prosperous nations in Europe are Norway and Switzerland, neither EEC members. The sting in the tail for England/UK though is that the government needs to invest in manufacturing industries and massive training programmes. This means that there will be no room for stay at home on the playstationers/sit in the pub or park all day drinking cider or puffing dopers, it means people taking a pride once again in being English and working hard for both personal and national pride and good wages once immigration is brought under control.
There you go, problem solved.
Len Glover.
In my view the paucity and lack of substance to Europhile arguments is demonstrated every time they hurl the insult "Little Englander" at anyone who
disagrees with them.
Bingaddick, I would have said something similar. Also you seem to want to remain within Europe, but can't wait for a referendum which looks very likely to take us out.