"My work is geometric/optical illusion based and all hand painted. Painted on natural materials they are a themed on the modern industrial society and its relationship with the natural world which we inherited. kind of a visual metaphor for how we can live in harmony with the planet, rather than destroy it."
Shine - your quote about your work, can't see how rioting and damaging property will enable us to 'live in harmony with the planet, rather than destroy it.'
Yes its audio from a bbc report, just trying to get a point across that witnesses are seeing one thing and the police another. Im not in charge of the CCTV so I cant comment, but yes footage should be made available.... clarity is all I ask for.
I agree with you fella. just because witness statements from everyone who did witness it weren't taken doesn't mean we should believe the opinion of those that were and how the media decide to pick up on a certain viewpoint just to make a story.
I had an argument with a friend a while about about witness statements possibly not being accurate when being reported in the media as the media pick and choose which statements they would use. If the media are 'on the police side' then they'd use statements given to them by witnesses that support the police perspective.
I dont believe a lot of what i read and the perspective it is written by as there is usually more to a situation than meets the eye. That doesn't mean i condone any kind of behaviour by those rioting and looting, and why the bloke died, looting and violence and smashing up local businesses isn't going to bring him back, nor is it going to resolve the wider issue overnight.
shine might not have been there, but he's entitled to not believe everything about the story as he sees fit without being subject to sarcasm.
You seem to be clutching at straws now in your quest for a row, pretty much every reply ive tried to be level headed and have definitely not been insulting ...is this not a discussion board ?
planet = a physical being that we ruin with our industrial ways
Property = material possessions that in the grand scheme of things mean nothing
I was talking about the planet in that statement, not cars tv's or houses.
Your opinion is certainly valid and yes of course we live in a world of un truths and mis direction but sometimes you have to look at things in a more straight forward way. As the saying goes, " if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck" do you you really think that armed police arbitrarily trawl the streets executing innocent people of London or just perhaps they returned fire on an armed vilain and it ended with him dying ?
Menedez?
I am certain that the police officers did not arbitrarily shoot John Charles Menenzes if that's who you mean. Tragic course of events and catalogue of errors but not a arbitrary execution.
Well I withdrew my comment as I am in agreement with everything else you have written on this topic, however what would you call a completely un necessary shooting of an unarmed and compliant individual? If Menendez had been a policeman and the officers who shot him gangsters, would it have been an 'execution' or a 'tragic course of events'?
Completely different. Some Police can legally carry guns and it is necessary they do so to protect themselves and us. "Gangsters" (and pretty much most people) are not allowed to carry guns so them shooting someone will always be a murder and can never be a tragic turn of events. The Officers that shot Mendez didn't just randomly decide to shoot somone whilst over reacting or havign a bad day. They were acting on what they were being told and having to make split second decision with the fact in their minds that they are responsible for the lives of everyone around them not long after many people had been killed by suicide bombers. Easy to critisise after the fact but i'm glad i'm unlikely to be in that position..The faultult lies with the system and those over the officers who cocked up, not the officers who shot. themselves.
Shine.......I'm pretty anti the system and authority, but it's clear your views have been so tainted that theirs no rational anymore. We all have to be careful of our bias as you stated earlier about just believing what we're told..
It most certainly is a discussion board and that was not supposed to be an insult, just an observation. Shouldn't really destroy other peoples property even if you think that material possessions mean nothing though. No one is looking for a row or clutching at straws. Your philosophy is just your opinion.
Yes tragic and errors but those officers who shot an innocent and compliant JCM were under the belief that he had explosives strapped to him that he could detonate at any moment. They under those conditions had to shoot him. Procedural and intel issues well before those officers involvement were the cause of that tragic event. Again not an arbitrary execution.
One less scum bag in this world isn't a bad thing imo
so so true. If he's carrying a gun then I'm pleased the police shot him dead. Would only be a matter of time before he shot someone so why not prevent that happening. Carry a gun you know the consequences. Don't want to be shot dead then don't carry a gun, simples.
As the Police go round shooting innocent people for no reason how come no Rioters were shot last night when you'd think it would be a prime oppurtunity for target practise and cover ups?. I'm dissapointed in them.
As the Police go round shooting innocent people for no reason how come no Rioters were shot last night when you'd think it would be a prime oppurtunity for target practise and cover ups?. I'm dissapointed in them.
Its ok, they got all there practise for cover ups with Ian Tomlinson, the truth for that only came out because of footage caught on mobile phones
It most certainly is a discussion board and that was not supposed to be an insult, just an observation. Shouldn't really destroy other peoples property even if you think that material possessions mean nothing though. No one is looking for a row or clutching at straws. Your philosophy is just your opinion.
we agree to disagree... at least we agree on something
Yes tragic and errors but those officers who shot an innocent and compliant JCM were under the belief that he had explosives strapped to him that he could detonate at any moment. They under those conditions had to shoot him. Procedural and intel issues well before those officers involvement were the cause of that tragic event. Again not an arbitrary execution.
I must have studied different witness statements you, then. This from the BBC Leaked documents appear to contradict the official account of how police mistook a Brazilian man for a suicide bomber and shot him.
The papers, from the probe into Jean Charles de Menezes' death, and leaked to ITV, suggest he was restrained before being shot eight times. The documents, including witness statements, also suggest Mr de Menezes did not hurdle the barrier at Stockwell tube station and was not wearing a padded jacket that could have concealed a bomb
This from the coroners report One key area that the Rule 43 report and MPS response fails to tackle adequately goes to the heart of the ‘shoot to kill’ debate. If an armed officer has no intelligence or other information that tells him that the suspect has the means to detonate a bomb, he must issue a challenge or we risk repeat killings by the police.
They did NOT have to shoot him. Really, they didnt. (I speak as someone who worked in anti-terrorism in the late 1980's) Otherwise they can blame the latest shooting on the same system. ''We thought he had a bomb'' would be a totally unacceptable catch all.
Anyhow as this is off topic and the on topic posts you make I agree with, I will bow out of this diversion.
The Brixton riots in 1981 started because the local "community" believed that the OB had stood by and watched whilst a young black lad - who had been stabbed by three other black lads - bled to death on the pavement.
In fact the OB took him to hospital and saved his life, but the rest is history.
Love the way that people are saying they want the facts to come out, but then instantly dismiss the "establishments" version of events in favour of something said by someone on Twitter!
It seems to me that the OB just sat back and let the rioters get on with it. Too scared of being criticized by "the community" probably.
Amazing how something like this happens and it's "community" this and "community" that. It must be a truly wonderful place to live most of the time with all of that community spirit about.
It seems to me that the OB just sat back and let the rioters get on with it. Too scared of being criticized by "the community" probably.
Amazing how something like this happens and it's "community" this and "community" that. It must be a truly wonderful place to live most of the time with all of that community spirit about.
The Tottenham riots of 1985 started after Police were accused of murdering Cynthia Jarrett and there was 'peaceful protest' outside Tottenham Police Stn. They hadn't murdered her, but nobody listened anyway - just another massive crime and destruction spree with a devestating ending after Keith Blacklock was killed by savages. Mrs Jarrett had died as a result of a stroke. This latest matter is a bit deja vu and will probably continue, as a few more locals need a new HD TV.
The Tottenham riots of 1985 started after Police were accused of murdering Cynthia Jarrett and there was 'peaceful protest' outside Tottenham Police Stn. They hadn't murdered her, but nobody listened anyway - just another massive crime and destruction spree with a devestating ending after Keith Blacklock was killed by savages. Mrs Jarrett had died as a result of a stroke. This latest matter is a bit deja vu and will probably continue, as a few more locals need a new HD TV.
There was a bloke on the telly last night somehow trying to justify the ongoing events by saying, "Don't forget the police basically murdered Cynthia Jarrett". FFS - what next, blame it on slavery?
On a slightly different note................didn't this guy get shot late Thursday night ? If so, the why did it take almost 48 hours for the local "community" to get upset ??? Does it take that long nowdays to get the youngsters out of bed and all tooled up ??
Or was it a co-incidence that Spurs were playing Sat afterrnoon & what couldnt be better than have a "protest" start at 5pm, just as hundreds of todays yoof (lads & lassies aged between 15 and 25) are hitting the self same streets, all beer up having been drinking since lunchtime.................couldn't have planned it better myself !!!
Anyone seen on CCTV throwing stones etc or looting should loose their council house, social money and taken to the houses of the people that worked in the burnt down shopswho will now be out of work and locked in a room with them for 5 minutes.
I think the Police were too gentle with the rioters last night. Use water cannons and throw the stones back at the scum!!!
It seems to me that the OB just sat back and let the rioters get on with it. Too scared of being criticized by "the community" probably.
Amazing how something like this happens and it's "community" this and "community" that. It must be a truly wonderful place to live most of the time with all of that community spirit about.
I've always found it amusing that the people who tend to reject the police's side of the events and certain papers' views accept the evidence from viewpoints that they agree with without question. I've got friends who claim you should never believe what you hear in the media if it comes from a publication they hate, but then jump on statistics that support their viewpoint from any other paper, it's pure hypocrisy. Seems ridiculous to claim the police are lying on the basis that eyewitnesses dispute what they say. These would be the same eyewitnesses burning buses and looting shops? Trustworthy! The reality is we don't have any facts on the situation so we don't know who was in the right or the wrong with regards to the shooting. We do however know that the thugs smashing up Tottenham are totally in the wrong. It's that simple for me really
Shoot all the looters --dead. Round up the scum burning peoples houses and cars, give em 10 years. Deport to a small island all the apologists. Hang all the "human rights mafia" in giblets on Blackheath. Simple.
For once I agree with you, but only if the small island is in the Bahamas.
Comments
kind of a visual metaphor for how we can live in harmony with the planet, rather than destroy it."
Shine - your quote about your work, can't see how rioting and damaging property will enable us to 'live in harmony with the planet, rather than destroy it.'
Some Police can legally carry guns and it is necessary they do so to protect themselves and us. "Gangsters" (and pretty much most people) are not allowed to carry guns so them shooting someone will always be a murder and can never be a tragic turn of events.
The Officers that shot Mendez didn't just randomly decide to shoot somone whilst over reacting or havign a bad day. They were acting on what they were being told and having to make split second decision with the fact in their minds that they are responsible for the lives of everyone around them not long after many people had been killed by suicide bombers. Easy to critisise after the fact but i'm glad i'm unlikely to be in that position..The faultult lies with the system and those over the officers who cocked up, not the officers who shot. themselves.
Shine.......I'm pretty anti the system and authority, but it's clear your views have been so tainted that theirs no rational anymore. We all have to be careful of our bias as you stated earlier about just believing what we're told..
Yes tragic and errors but those officers who shot an innocent and compliant JCM were under the belief that he had explosives strapped to him that he could detonate at any moment. They under those conditions had to shoot him. Procedural and intel issues well before those officers involvement were the cause of that tragic event. Again not an arbitrary execution.
so so true. If he's carrying a gun then I'm pleased the police shot him dead. Would only be a matter of time before he shot someone so why not prevent that happening. Carry a gun you know the consequences. Don't want to be shot dead then don't carry a gun, simples.
Sorry if that offends shine66
As the Police go round shooting innocent people for no reason how come no Rioters were shot last night when you'd think it would be a prime oppurtunity for target practise and cover ups?. I'm dissapointed in them.
This from the BBC
Leaked documents appear to contradict the official
account of how police mistook a Brazilian man for a suicide bomber and
shot him.
The papers, from the probe into Jean Charles de Menezes' death, and
leaked to ITV, suggest he was restrained before being shot eight times.
The documents, including witness statements, also suggest
Mr de Menezes did not hurdle the barrier at Stockwell tube station and
was not wearing a padded jacket that could have concealed a bomb
This from the coroners report
One key area that the Rule 43 report and MPS response fails to tackle
adequately goes to the heart of the ‘shoot to kill’ debate. If an armed
officer has no intelligence or other information that tells him that
the suspect has the means to detonate a bomb, he must issue a challenge
or we risk repeat killings by the police.
They did NOT have to shoot him. Really, they didnt. (I speak as someone who worked in anti-terrorism in the late 1980's) Otherwise they can blame the latest shooting on the same system. ''We thought he had a bomb'' would be a totally unacceptable catch all.
Anyhow as this is off topic and the on topic posts you make I agree with, I will bow out of this diversion.
Great post. My feelings exactly.
Or was it a co-incidence that Spurs were playing Sat afterrnoon & what couldnt be better than have a "protest" start at 5pm, just as hundreds of todays yoof (lads & lassies aged between 15 and 25) are hitting the self same streets, all beer up having been drinking since lunchtime.................couldn't have planned it better myself !!!
Anyone seen on CCTV throwing stones etc or looting should loose their council house, social money and taken to the houses of the people that worked in the burnt down shopswho will now be out of work and locked in a room with them for 5 minutes.
I think the Police were too gentle with the rioters last night. Use water cannons and throw the stones back at the scum!!!
mmmmmm giblets