The police in this country are far from blameless but I have no problem with them dealing decisively with all those who illegally carry firearms and also the scum who rampaged through Tottenham last night.
Oh god. I hope the police weren't too nasty with the rioters.
Can't baton them hard enough I say.
Sounds like the rioting started after the police starting hitting people. Burn all the police cars n vans they want, but innocent peoples property is wrong.
As a few other have said, the facts need to come out asap.
Shame the club wasnt looted and someone took Keane and Bentley with them ;-)
Am glad to say our pre-match meet up place, the finest kebab shop on the High Road is still standing, despite that part of the road by Bruce Grove being taped off, as its opposite the pub that burnt down.
Still hard to believe I walked down the High Road only a few hours beforehand.
Having seen the full extent of damage on TV, I can now understand why I had a fewmissed calls from the ex-wife last night, to enquire whether my daughter and I got home safely lol.
As someone who regularly goes in and out of tottinham and sees first hand the gang culture in this area , I aslo know of the guy shot Thursday, I don't know him personally but I have friends who do , he was a known gang member quite high up in the chain of his so called gang ( god it sounds so childish referring to these people like this ) I also have spoken to 2 front line coppers this morning who are going back into work now after a few hours off, who have told me that he was a known violent member of society, who was given ample opportunity to drop his weapon on Thursday but decided to open fire in a public place aiming at the ob.
Don't need an enquiry to know scum like that is better dead than alive,
The riots last night were scum robbing together, and just causing havoc, the funniest bit is that on any other given night they would be killing eachother, for crossing into the post codes that they did last night,
Oh god. I hope the police weren't too nasty with the rioters.
Can't baton them hard enough I say.
Sounds like the rioting started after the police starting hitting people. Burn all the police cars n vans they want, but innocent peoples property is wrong.
As a few other have said, the facts need to come out asap.
Er no. As a taxpayer i dont want to have to fork out money that could be better spent elsewhere because some scum bags are on a misguided quest for "justice".
Last night was indefensible and a million miles away from the stuff that sparked Broadwater, Brixton and other such riots. The bloke that got shot doesnt sound like he was a pillar of the community and if he was carrying a gun (doubt he was on his way to practice for the olympic rifle event) then it doesnt take Sherlock Holmes or the invetiable multi million pound public enquiry that will ensue to work out he probably wasnt an innocent victim murdered by the oppressive, brutal police state.
I am amazed at the number of facebook comments/ groups and radio callers who are making out that this was an attack by the police on the "community" and that they are just fighting back against those who keep them down.
They need to grow up its 2011 not 1985. There is still so much opportunity in this country for everyone to make a go of life but for some they choose not to take it as its easier to adopt the gangsta/ wont work/ screw the rest of society attitude and then p1ss and moan when the law puts a spanner in the works.
You say burn all the police cars and vans you want and how the police started hitting people before the riot
Then you say about how we can believe what the police are saying and how we need the facts.
Can't see police started hitting people before the riots if you havnt heard the facts
Well, I just listened to the bbc audio link I posted... did you ? first hand account from somebody there saying the police kicked off lastnight before the riot had started.
Im saying if the police did in fact start lastnight, then burn the cars... but not normal peoples possessions.
When we got kept in at millwall last season and the OB got heavy handed as they do up and down the country every week (often with innocent football fans) is it ok to set fire to police cars and fans then or is it just ok when the perpetrators are protesting about a gangsta who shot at the police?
A fatal shooting in West Norwood this morning - why didn't the Police do something to prevent it happening? That will be the question from the grieving family. Hmmmmmmmmm.......... Any suggestions Shine166 - maybe a polite written request to all known armed criminals to surrender their weapons like good boys?
well they could have shot him in the legs ? I dont see the point in 'shooting to kill' then trying to give him cpr
This is probably the most rediculous post that can be made regarding this. Are you honestly saying that if someone was threatening you with a gun you would shoot them in the legs, or if a Police officer had the gun aimed at someone pointing a gun at you, you would be shouting "shoot him in the legs please officer"? And if they did shoot them in the legs and they still shot you, you'd be the first to complain and sue them. Plus the Police legally have a duty to save life, so if they have to shoot someone they have to then try and save them or they break the law and they will get in trouble for that (and the poor innocent bad boy's family try to sue for even more).
I agree with you that we shouldn't take official versions as read and we must get info from other places before making decisions. But it works both ways. There are many people who happily spread rumours of cover ups and Police murder or brutality simply because they want to stir up trouble or because they don't want to admit their friend/family member was a scumbag or responsible for what happened to him. In the news interviews of locals i've heard a few now saying "i've heard that there are eye witnesses saying he din't shoot... etc etc" Including obviously yourself. Still nobody saying they are the eye witnesses.. This kind of stuff is far more prevelant than the official version being a cover up. But people are mostly pre destined to believe what they want to believe and are hypocrits when it comes to justifying their views in contrast to others. Even if the IPCC say that the bloke did shoot at the Police, the bullit in the Police radio is genuine, and the shooting was justified, ther are still gonna be people saying it's a cover up, often just to satisfy their own agendas or bias. And as for people accepting responsibility for their actions any more.........
By the way Shine...Police issue bullets are actually designed to be less likely to kill you. They do not break up in the body and do not ricochet around the body as much which is what usually kills. Not sure what else they can do. Maybe the individual members of the public could have an influence on what happens to them adn how they end up in these situations?...No stupid radical idea.
Agree that there is more to it than meets the eye but surely whatever emerges cant justify last night? Even if the police were entirely in the wrong ie the De Menzes Stockwell thing i still dont think it would justify the looting of JD Sports and looting peoples homes before setting fire to them.
Or the bus driver hauled out of his seat and beaten before his bus set alight.
In answer to Shine's previous claim about a 16 year old girl being beaten by Police - this is now on Sky:
Posted by: Laurence B on August 7, 2011 12:42 PM - "to all reports that the 16yr old girl went up to ask questions i can confirm that is not true. i was about 10 metres away from that situation, perfectly in line with the riot police line. she approached them and threw her placard and something else (a stone i think) and the riot police took her down".
Was I even justifying last night? no, am I awaiting to see what the investigations show which may have lead to last nights violence, yep, cause it's all noise at the moment, and no signal
When we got kept in at millwall last season and the OB got heavy handed as they do up and down the country every week (often with innocent football fans) is it ok to set fire to police cars and fans then or is it just ok when the perpetrators are protesting about a gangsta who shot at the police?
Im 28
Ive had family victims of police brutality and the bullshit that comes out of there mouth. I have a cousin doing a 5 stretch atm due to bullshit evidence... although thats probably irrelevant. I think you would have been well within your right to smash a few meat wagon windows..... not seen any reports of actual police being set on fire though
When we got kept in at millwall last season and the OB got heavy handed as they do up and down the country every week (often with innocent football fans) is it ok to set fire to police cars and fans then or is it just ok when the perpetrators are protesting about a gangsta who shot at the police?
Im 28
Ive had family victims of police brutality and the bullshit that comes out of there mouth.
Yep and so do I but this is a different kettle of fish altogether mate.
Your opinion is certainly valid and yes of course we live in a world of un truths and mis direction but sometimes you have to look at things in a more straight forward way. As the saying goes, " if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck" do you you really think that armed police arbitrarily trawl the streets executing innocent people of London or just perhaps they returned fire on an armed vilain and it ended with him dying ?
Menedez?
I am certain that the police officers did not arbitrarily shoot John Charles Menenzes if that's who you mean. Tragic course of events and catalogue of errors but not a arbitrary execution.
Shine - so you are clearly anti Police anyway and do not have a balanced view. "I have a cousin doing a 5 stretch atm due to bullshit evidence" - isn't there a proper appeal process to go through for 'bullshit evidence'? You actually do not have the right to 'smash a few meat wagon windows' as you claim, because its illegal and a criminal offence. OMG.
Shine - so you are clearly anti Police anyway and do not have a balanced view. "I have a cousin doing a 5 stretch atm due to bullshit evidence" - isn't there a proper appeal process to go through for 'bullshit evidence'? You actually do not have the right to 'smash a few meat wagon windows' as you claim, because its illegal and a criminal offence. OMG.
So is the OB getting heavy handed towards innocent fans, or if its not it should be.
Why rothko. Regardless of who said or did what, what I've seen on telly this morning is just wrong.
Of course it's wrong, but it's also good to know what exactly happened on Ferry Lane, and what been happening in the community to ferment something as wrong as last night.
Your opinion is certainly valid and yes of course we live in a world of un truths and mis direction but sometimes you have to look at things in a more straight forward way. As the saying goes, " if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck" do you you really think that armed police arbitrarily trawl the streets executing innocent people of London or just perhaps they returned fire on an armed vilain and it ended with him dying ?
Menedez?
I am certain that the police officers did not arbitrarily shoot John Charles Menenzes if that's who you mean. Tragic course of events and catalogue of errors but not a arbitrary execution.
Well I withdrew my comment as I am in agreement with everything else you have written on this topic, however what would you call a completely un necessary shooting of an unarmed and compliant individual? If Menendez had been a policeman and the officers who shot him gangsters, would it have been an 'execution' or a 'tragic course of events'?
Comments
One less scum bag in this world isn't a bad thing imo
He played by street rules and died Tuff shit one less dealer on the streets
Am glad to say our pre-match meet up place, the finest kebab shop on the High Road is still standing, despite that part of the road by Bruce Grove being taped off, as its opposite the pub that burnt down.
Still hard to believe I walked down the High Road only a few hours beforehand.
Having seen the full extent of damage on TV, I can now understand why I had a fewmissed calls from the ex-wife last night, to enquire whether my daughter and I got home safely lol.
Don't need an enquiry to know scum like that is better dead than alive,
The riots last night were scum robbing together, and just causing havoc, the funniest bit is that on any other given night they would be killing eachother, for crossing into the post codes that they did last night,
Er no. As a taxpayer i dont want to have to fork out money that could be better spent elsewhere because some scum bags are on a misguided quest for "justice".
Last night was indefensible and a million miles away from the stuff that sparked Broadwater, Brixton and other such riots. The bloke that got shot doesnt sound like he was a pillar of the community and if he was carrying a gun (doubt he was on his way to practice for the olympic rifle event) then it doesnt take Sherlock Holmes or the invetiable multi million pound public enquiry that will ensue to work out he probably wasnt an innocent victim murdered by the oppressive, brutal police state.
I am amazed at the number of facebook comments/ groups and radio callers who are making out that this was an attack by the police on the "community" and that they are just fighting back against those who keep them down.
They need to grow up its 2011 not 1985. There is still so much opportunity in this country for everyone to make a go of life but for some they choose not to take it as its easier to adopt the gangsta/ wont work/ screw the rest of society attitude and then p1ss and moan when the law puts a spanner in the works.
You say burn all the police cars and vans you want and how the police started hitting people before the riot
Then you say about how we can believe what the police are saying and how we need the facts.
Can't see police started hitting people before the riots if you havnt heard the facts
Ok I think I understand you now.
Shine serious question, how old are you mate?
When we got kept in at millwall last season and the OB got heavy handed as they do up and down the country every week (often with innocent football fans) is it ok to set fire to police cars and fans then or is it just ok when the perpetrators are protesting about a gangsta who shot at the police?
And if they did shoot them in the legs and they still shot you, you'd be the first to complain and sue them.
Plus the Police legally have a duty to save life, so if they have to shoot someone they have to then try and save them or they break the law and they will get in trouble for that (and the poor innocent bad boy's family try to sue for even more).
I agree with you that we shouldn't take official versions as read and we must get info from other places before making decisions. But it works both ways. There are many people who happily spread rumours of cover ups and Police murder or brutality simply because they want to stir up trouble or because they don't want to admit their friend/family member was a scumbag or responsible for what happened to him.
In the news interviews of locals i've heard a few now saying "i've heard that there are eye witnesses saying he din't shoot... etc etc" Including obviously yourself. Still nobody saying they are the eye witnesses..
This kind of stuff is far more prevelant than the official version being a cover up.
But people are mostly pre destined to believe what they want to believe and are hypocrits when it comes to justifying their views in contrast to others.
Even if the IPCC say that the bloke did shoot at the Police, the bullit in the Police radio is genuine, and the shooting was justified, ther are still gonna be people saying it's a cover up, often just to satisfy their own agendas or bias. And as for people accepting responsibility for their actions any more.........
By the way Shine...Police issue bullets are actually designed to be less likely to kill you. They do not break up in the body and do not ricochet around the body as much which is what usually kills. Not sure what else they can do. Maybe the individual members of the public could have an influence on what happens to them adn how they end up in these situations?...No stupid radical idea.
Agree that there is more to it than meets the eye but surely whatever emerges cant justify last night? Even if the police were entirely in the wrong ie the De Menzes Stockwell thing i still dont think it would justify the looting of JD Sports and looting peoples homes before setting fire to them.
Or the bus driver hauled out of his seat and beaten before his bus set alight.
Posted by: Laurence B on August 7, 2011 12:42 PM - "to all reports that the 16yr old girl went up to ask questions i can confirm that is not true. i was about 10 metres away from that situation, perfectly in line with the riot police line. she approached them and threw her placard and something else (a stone i think) and the riot police took her down".
No doubt this will be another lie.....
No fair enough.
Yep and so do I but this is a different kettle of fish altogether mate.
I am certain that the police officers did not arbitrarily shoot John Charles Menenzes if that's who you mean. Tragic course of events and catalogue of errors but not a arbitrary execution.
If Menendez had been a policeman and the officers who shot him gangsters, would it have been an 'execution' or a 'tragic course of events'?