The problem isn't the dogs 90% of the time, it's the owners.
Scumbags will always be scumbags and have aggressive dogs, whether it's a bully, a shepherd or a wolfhound on the end of the lead, it doesn't matter, so long as they think it makes them look hard
Should legislation be toughened to help prevent people being hurt or killed by dog attacks? And, if so, what should the legislation be?
Pit bulls have been banned for absolutely years. Yet drive through any part of South London and you will see plenty. It's one thing having laws, but enforcing them is something else.
Side-by-side maybe, but in isolation not sure I could tell the difference between a Staffy and a pitbull.
I've had 3 Staff's down the years . A pit bull is roughly twice the size.
Yeah but my point stands. In isolation how easy is it to tell the difference between a large Staffy and a small pit bull?
Should legislation be toughened to help prevent people being hurt or killed by dog attacks? And, if so, what should the legislation be?
Pit bulls have been banned for absolutely years. Yet drive through any part of South London and you will see plenty. It's one thing having laws, but enforcing them is something else.
That's why I think laws banning certain dogs don't work.
But I also don't know what laws would work, other than making anyone who wants to keep a dog undergo training and qualification and be licensed by the police. But that's impractical and expensive.
Again, great ideas but who’s to police it? “Training” when you take your shiny new puppy to the vet and he has his jabs and you keep home for two weeks you miss out on two weeks socialising, not with other dogs but with the human race. I don’t give a flying f*** if my dogs don’t like yours, because unless your dog is off lead or out of control he’ll never meet mine.
What is more important is that they know how to correctly greet a human being be they 3 or 93.
If your dog shouts at mine from the other side of the road my dog will shout back, if he’s allowed to get in my dogs face and start shouting I’ll shout at you.
Barking is just noise, it’s what dogs do the amount of people I see that are embarrassed by a barking dog 🤷♂️ When we exercise our dogs they will pick up on our energy be it nervousness or confidence, if we start wrapping a lead around our knuckles that tells me as an approaching handler you rely on brute force to control the dog, I believe it also tells your dog “heads up dog this shits getting real” If you have a reactive dog, simply remove it from the situation, cross over, turn around and walk back because all the while you walk a reactive dog towards another the stare remains fixed and the steam is rising. My first dog training session with Mrs Redmidland was 20/30 minutes long before got the dogs out of the van.
Mrs Elf's aunt was looking for another home for this little beauty. We have taken her on. She has the features of a sausage dog but not sure what mix she is.
Mrs Remdidland is a dog trainer, she trains all breeds and in all situations. She has been learning her skill (that's what it is) for over 20 yrs, when we got our first GSD. She runs training courses and videos on dog training, but readily admits to STILL learning now...everyday! She deals with reactive dogs and all of what @TCE says is true! Owners of reactive dogs, of all sizes, when out tend to tighten the dogs lead which transmits down to the dog, they immediately go into ' Where's the trouble' mode. As for the answer, it's impractical, but all owners should undergo compulsory training, however as Ray says who's going to police it! Bad owners, bad breeders, no training, no respect for others dogs, etc etc ultimately culminate in the 'attack' situation. Sadly, as has become apparent with my wife's small business, less and less people are going to dog trainers nowadays, she charges £7.50 per hour, less than minimum wage, thats all but classes are now just 3 or 4 people, tops! In fact with fuel costs, hire of a hall and time spent, she losses money on virtually every class! When @TCE first got his GSD's he drove all the way up here to Hinckley, so my Mrs could help him 'train', and he has gone from strength to strength! This now is a thing of the past, and until mind sets are changed, sadly dogs will be condemned, owners will get away with it and people will die or be seriously injured. She now is going to put videos up on line, where she strips back training to its basics, there will be a series of videos added to each week, I belive the subscription is £5.00 per month! We are trying to run affordable training for all that can be accessed 365 days a week and makes training fun for dog AND owners! It will then move onto more specialised training for those who want It. There are really good owners and dogs out there, but are being dragged down by the increase in irresponsible people. Rant over!
Mrs Elf's aunt was looking for another home for this little beauty. We have taken her on. She has the features of a sausage dog but not sure what mix she is.
The problem isn't the dogs 90% of the time, it's the owners.
Scumbags will always be scumbags and have aggressive dogs, whether it's a bully, a shepherd or a wolfhound on the end of the lead, it doesn't matter, so long as they think it makes them look hard
Sure, but the fact is that there have been 22 humans killed by dogs since 2020, 10 of which were by Bullies and none by shepherds or wolfhounds. The problem is the dogs and the owners.
"It is unclear exactly how a ban on XL bullies would work and Downing Street said there had been "no final decision" on what will happen to people who already own XL bullies when they are banned."
"It is unclear exactly how a ban on XL bullies would work and Downing Street said there had been "no final decision" on what will happen to people who already own XL bullies when they are banned."
The very least that should be done is that the dogs have to be neutered or spayed so they can't breed them. Also they should be kept on a leed and muzzled whenever outside the house.
My gorgeous boys - I have no worries about them around anyone - well trained - we have been in pubs and little toddlers have wanted to stroke them - understandably their parents ask about our 2 boys (no issue with that, and the right approach)
We have had little toddlers laying on them, fiddling with their ears and tails - my boys simply laid down, or gave them them an occasional lick on the face
The question that has to be asked is what sort of owner wants an XL Bully? ANd if they can't get one, could they not train another large dog to be aggressive? It is absolutely the owners you have to look at if you want to solve the problem. The other issue is it is not just people who are attacked but other dogs. It is unacceptable and banning one breed may look good and seem right but I don't think it will solve the problem in itself. I think you need to find a way of taking these people out of the equation.
What really annoys me at the moment is when another dog rushes up to my dog and the owner calls out, it's ok, he's friendly. Firstly you don't know this for sure and secondly you can have some nervous dogs, some of which have been attacked before and if you can't stop your dog doing this off lead which some owners can effectively, you should keep them on a lead.
My brother and his partner have a cross bread of an XL Bully and a Staff (my brothers partner has always had staffs so shes used to them). 1 year old. Looked after it recently. Had i known what they can be like I probably would of refused. I'm not a massive fan of dogs anyway due to being attacked by two when i was a kid and on a separate occasion going to the bull in chielsehurst where I went up to the bar to get another drink came back to where I was sitting to find some dog laying on my seat. owners oblivious.
anyway.
My brothers dog is as can be expected at such a young age, very playful and he always wants to be near people. Mainly me when I was looking after him. Inside easy to control. Soon as we went outside it starts jumping up and nibbles(not biting). Unfortunately it would want to do the same to others if I wasn't there to stop it. Very strong dog. Playful but I can see why if it turns it can be very difficult to control.
Gun, knives, drugs to name but a few are all banned.
Again, who police’s a banned dog breed? Our police force don’t have the man power to enforce the real issues, let alone a Bobby spotting a banned dog breed whether they have experience in identifying the breeds or not.
Until people stop buying dogs from kitchen/backyard breeders it will continue and dogs being bred to specific designs be they aggressive or pretty designs.
I like dogs and for some reason I don't entirely fathom, dogs seem to like me. (Even my niece's Kerry Blue, which hated everyone, liked me. It seemed to take on a role as my personal protection dog and would reserve a spot on the sofa for me.)
In my old job I also had the "pleasure" of meeting out and out guard dogs. I never had an issue with any of them. The only dog I don't get on with is a Bichon Frise which is about the size and weight of a box of cereal - perhaps it doesn't like that I call it Swiffer because I think it looks like the branded dusting brush.
Anyway, these XL things are another matter. I don't think I'd go near one. The law just has to take the path of least resistance. Even though slicks are far safer than treaded tyres in dry conditions, we ban bald tyres, for obvious reasons. Hand guns, banned. Jumping jacks fireworks, banned. Okay this is an animal we are talking about. But it is a large potentially erratic beast. We are happy to have something that weighs about 12 pounds as a pet even though cats of any size would be perfectly happy to rip great chunks out of you. But no one thinks it would be sensible to pop a panther on a lead and stroll down to the pub with it. Banning the XLs is the only sensible option. Over time they will die out much like ULEZ busting vehicles.
In the past, of course, people had different views but laws get fine-tuned over time. There was a Wall of Death rider called George "Tornado" Smith who lived in Boxford in Suffolk. He had a pet lioness he used to walk around the village. I'm guessing that would not be allowed now.
I don't think it will end with the XL Bully, there's other similar crosses, American Bull dogs to my untrained eye look very similar and are high up the charts for attacks.
Staff's still make up quite a large number on the attack charts, I think people forget that they like the American Pitt bull were created and bred for dog fighting, that said I've never known a bad one.
I can see a situation before too long where a fair number of breeds will need to be muzzled in public and on a leash, but that won't help if one simply escapes through a door or over a fence.
My favourite dog the Doberman and also the Rottweiler both seem to have shrunk in popularity and whilst once were considered a 'dangerous' dog (not in respect of the act) seems to be less so now.
As always 95% of the time it's down to the breeding/breeders and owners, but how you combat that without banning certain breeds I do not know, but something needs to happen that's clear.
To start I will say I also do not know what the answer is and how you can blanket ban a dog breed.
Unfortunately this particular breed are popular with the type of people you’d give a wide birth to even if they didn’t have a 60-70kg beast next to them. I’ve had so much interaction with them in the last 3 years where popularity has skyrocketed and I can only think of one dog that was calm, approachable and under control. Every out of hours call regarding labour at the moment is these dogs and in the majority of cases you can tell the “owner” has no idea what labour involves, how to prepare the bitch, what signs they are struggling etc. I even had one charming young man tell me he had got dental floss ready for the(10second pause) umbilical cord. Deep down I knew he’d be cropping the ears.
In the veterinary world nearly every single person I know has the stance “no bad dog only bad owner”. I agree in a general sense but, I think I’ve gone against the grain with this breed. The sheer strength, power, innate aggression and interbreeding has created an agile dog that will by natural instinct go for your jugular. I feel morally conflicted working nights with one very petite female surgeon, knowing my safety is at risk but wanting to put animal welfare first.
Going back to my first point is why it’s so difficult to police even if the breed is characterised and defined as a breed by the KC and subsequently placed on the dangerous dogs list. People will find a way, like weapons, class A’s etc.
Tomorrow see’s our Therapy dogs return to St George’s Primary school here on Minster for our 8th school year as Reading dogs, our 11th year in attendance at school. Our chosen breed the German Shepherd was the XL bully of the 80s where the status of a breed of dog was used to show dogs in a bad light just like the Rottie and the Dobbie was in the 70s/90s and the Staffies were in the 00s mainly through the irresponsibility on the other end of the lead.
We will continue all the while we can to share the positives of larger breeds working with all ages despite the little interest outside of this forum, supporting children of all ages and abilities as well as adults in our various care homes, groups and colleges.
Thank you again to those that support our work and take an interest especially our friendly spanner’s. 👍👍👍
my dog ruffles is a perfect angel, more likely to lick you to death than to maul! just make sure that you don't make any sudden movements near him or stay too still
Our first week back at school with the Reading dogs finished yesterday with a slightly shorter reading schedule but working with children with additional needs filling our time. So much so, I will enrol myself in a course in Understanding ADHD which was covered in my Diploma but only briefly so hopefully this will be more in depth. Earlier today I popped into BRFM one of our local radio stations to see an old mate Peter Finch and have a chat about the Therapy dogs work St Georges Primary School Sheppey Bowyer last visited when he was 10 weeks old, always great to promote our cherished association with a local school and we continued the theme with interview with a newspaper at lunchtime which was a follow up to an article written several years ago on Reading dogs in school. Thanks again for support
Comments
Scumbags will always be scumbags and have aggressive dogs, whether it's a bully, a shepherd or a wolfhound on the end of the lead, it doesn't matter, so long as they think it makes them look hard
“Training”
when you take your shiny new puppy to the vet and he has his jabs and you keep home for two weeks you miss out on two weeks socialising, not with other dogs but with the human race.
I don’t give a flying f*** if my dogs don’t like yours, because unless your dog is off lead or out of control he’ll never meet mine.
When we exercise our dogs they will pick up on our energy be it nervousness or confidence, if we start wrapping a lead around our knuckles that tells me as an approaching handler you rely on brute force to control the dog, I believe it also tells your dog “heads up dog this shits getting real”
If you have a reactive dog, simply remove it from the situation, cross over, turn around and walk back because all the while you walk a reactive dog towards another the stare remains fixed and the steam is rising.
My first dog training session with Mrs Redmidland was 20/30 minutes long before got the dogs out of the van.
Mrs Elf's aunt was looking for another home for this little beauty. We have taken her on.
She has the features of a sausage dog but not sure what mix she is.
She deals with reactive dogs and all of what @TCE says is true! Owners of reactive dogs, of all sizes, when out tend to tighten the dogs lead which transmits down to the dog, they immediately go into ' Where's the trouble' mode.
As for the answer, it's impractical, but all owners should undergo compulsory training, however as Ray says who's going to police it!
Bad owners, bad breeders, no training, no respect for others dogs, etc etc ultimately culminate in the 'attack' situation.
Sadly, as has become apparent with my wife's small business, less and less people are going to dog trainers nowadays, she charges £7.50 per hour, less than minimum wage, thats all but classes are now just 3 or 4 people, tops!
In fact with fuel costs, hire of a hall and time spent, she losses money on virtually every class!
When @TCE first got his GSD's he drove all the way up here to Hinckley, so my Mrs could help him 'train', and he has gone from strength to strength!
This now is a thing of the past, and until mind sets are changed, sadly dogs will be condemned, owners will get away with it and people will die or be seriously injured.
She now is going to put videos up on line, where she strips back training to its basics, there will be a series of videos added to each week, I belive the subscription is £5.00 per month!
We are trying to run affordable training for all that can be accessed 365 days a week and makes training fun for dog AND owners!
It will then move onto more specialised training for those who want It.
There are really good owners and dogs out there, but are being dragged down by the increase in irresponsible people.
Rant over!
I'm sure she'll have a lovely life with you both.
"It is unclear exactly how a ban on XL bullies would work and Downing Street said there had been "no final decision" on what will happen to people who already own XL bullies when they are banned."
Also they should be kept on a leed and muzzled whenever outside the house.
"That's an odd-shaped pasty! But a nice crust"
We have had little toddlers laying on them, fiddling with their ears and tails - my boys simply laid down, or gave them them an occasional lick on the face
Bring your dogs up right ……
What really annoys me at the moment is when another dog rushes up to my dog and the owner calls out, it's ok, he's friendly. Firstly you don't know this for sure and secondly you can have some nervous dogs, some of which have been attacked before and if you can't stop your dog doing this off lead which some owners can effectively, you should keep them on a lead.
Looked after it recently. Had i known what they can be like I probably would of refused.
I'm not a massive fan of dogs anyway due to being attacked by two when i was a kid and on a separate occasion going to the bull in chielsehurst where I went up to the bar to get another drink came back to where I was sitting to find some dog laying on my seat. owners oblivious.
anyway.
My brothers dog is as can be expected at such a young age, very playful and he always wants to be near people. Mainly me when I was looking after him. Inside easy to control. Soon as we went outside it starts jumping up and nibbles(not biting). Unfortunately it would want to do the same to others if I wasn't there to stop it.
Very strong dog. Playful but I can see why if it turns it can be very difficult to control.
Our police force don’t have the man power to enforce the real issues, let alone a Bobby spotting a banned dog breed whether they have experience in identifying the breeds or not.
In my old job I also had the "pleasure" of meeting out and out guard dogs. I never had an issue with any of them. The only dog I don't get on with is a Bichon Frise which is about the size and weight of a box of cereal - perhaps it doesn't like that I call it Swiffer because I think it looks like the branded dusting brush.
Anyway, these XL things are another matter. I don't think I'd go near one. The law just has to take the path of least resistance. Even though slicks are far safer than treaded tyres in dry conditions, we ban bald tyres, for obvious reasons. Hand guns, banned. Jumping jacks fireworks, banned. Okay this is an animal we are talking about. But it is a large potentially erratic beast. We are happy to have something that weighs about 12 pounds as a pet even though cats of any size would be perfectly happy to rip great chunks out of you. But no one thinks it would be sensible to pop a panther on a lead and stroll down to the pub with it. Banning the XLs is the only sensible option. Over time they will die out much like ULEZ busting vehicles.
In the past, of course, people had different views but laws get fine-tuned over time. There was a Wall of Death rider called George "Tornado" Smith who lived in Boxford in Suffolk. He had a pet lioness he used to walk around the village. I'm guessing that would not be allowed now.
Staff's still make up quite a large number on the attack charts, I think people forget that they like the American Pitt bull were created and bred for dog fighting, that said I've never known a bad one.
I can see a situation before too long where a fair number of breeds will need to be muzzled in public and on a leash, but that won't help if one simply escapes through a door or over a fence.
My favourite dog the Doberman and also the Rottweiler both seem to have shrunk in popularity and whilst once were considered a 'dangerous' dog (not in respect of the act) seems to be less so now.
As always 95% of the time it's down to the breeding/breeders and owners, but how you combat that without banning certain breeds I do not know, but something needs to happen that's clear.
my dog ruffles is a perfect angel, more likely to lick you to death than to maul!
just make sure that you don't make any sudden movements near him or stay too still
So much so, I will enrol myself in a course in Understanding ADHD which was covered in my Diploma but only briefly so hopefully this will be more in depth.
Earlier today I popped into BRFM one of our local radio stations to see an old mate Peter Finch and have a chat about the Therapy dogs work St Georges Primary School Sheppey Bowyer last visited when he was 10 weeks old, always great to promote our cherished association with a local school and we continued the theme with interview with a newspaper at lunchtime which was a follow up to an article written several years ago on Reading dogs in school.
Thanks again for support