Based on what I saw lat night I have to agree with Bedsaddick, Francis, McCormak and Wagstaffe are out of their depth in this league, and I would Benson to that list, still that one has resolved itself for the next 4 games! My biggest worry is the formuale of selling the best three players at the end of each season will see us heading into obscurity. Nice comfy seats though.
Brighton were getting better under poyet, after Rusell Slade left them they were playing as a team for example when they put in an excellent defence show at The Valley last year
They had a spine of there team and started by building confidence
Stop comparing us because we are so differnt to are team and there team
[cite]Posted By: Lutonaddick[/cite]Based on what I saw lat night I have to agree with Bedsaddick, Francis, McCormak and Wagstaffe are out of their depth in this league, and I would Benson to that list, still that one has resolved itself for the next 4 games! My biggest worry is the formuale of selling the best three players at the end of each season will see us heading into obscurity.
Nice comfy seats though.
We've got three best players? I suppose it's relative...
[quote][cite]Posted By: incorruptible addick[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Simonsen[/cite]..granted Anyinsah has been one of the better ones out of a bad bunch but three league goals = revelation? His last league goal at home was September 11th. We're his 8th club and he's only 26. A bit of a journeyman I'd say....albeit an honest one. Maybe it's another sign of how low we have got that we yearn for his return![/quote]
If we have to give Anyinsah a pet name, perhaps 'China Joe' might be more appropriate. But I presume 'big Joe' is intended to be ironic as his bio says he is five foot eight.
Have to agree with Simonsen. I like him but I am a little dubious about this notion that he is 'vital' to our success.
Until his one good season at Carlisle last year he had made 50 first-team appearances in five years for seven different clubs and scored three goals.[/quote] What a woeful stat. Done ok when he's played but that's been so rare. He can go and be cuddly joe on someone else's treatment table next season.
In an earlier post Ormiston questioned the performance of the team under Parky.
Ormiston I respect you have a different take on Parky's time to me but I quote from AFKAs excellent summary on the "where its all gone wrong" thread
"Ahead of Powell's first game in charge, Charlton had recorded just 1 win in 10 games, and that being an arguably fortuitous win against a non-league team in an FA Cup replay."
This is the reality of the final period of Parky's tenure. It will have included the Spuds game where he wasn't in charge and also possibly the Wednesday game, but the season had gone wrong during Parkys time. I witnessed the debacle against Swindon first hand, we were woeful.
We can argue the merits of Parky relative to the resources at his disposal. I give him credit for what he achieved. In truth though, he had four opportunities to become a legendary manager for our club.
1. When he took over from Pardew as Temporary manager - absolutely no "new manager" bounce to results
2. When he still had a chance to keep us up - indeed players were signed, in hope of him doing this - this didn't happen
3. When he had a strong (for this Division) squad last season. We started brilliantly yet in the end we failed to overhaul Norwich who started the season in absolute dire straights or Leeds who stumbled in the final third. We played poorly against Swindon in the play off semi first leg. We fell a penalty short.
4. He managed to shape a team this season on meagre resources who, for a brief period, looked like it was seriously challenging but as AKFA points out, it went wrong. He himself stated that he expected his team to gel and improve as the season wore on. That is not borne out by the facts.
For me it comes down to Chris having to try to change things with a set of players signed to do things in a more direct way.
[cite]Posted By: oohaahmortimer[/cite]1%play offs 99%98.9% the apologists will have to dig to new depths to make excuses for footballs current no.1 joke club
and 0.1% we plummet to the unthinkable - but at least some would enjoy visiting new grounds next season!!!
[cite]Posted By: Green Valley[/cite]Things are getting worst
Questions I would like answered I assume you are referring to last night in particular
1) How can things go down hill so quickly and confidence disapear thats the nature of confidence that has not been built up over a decent period, it is fragile. The team had lost confidence under Parky - one of the main reasons he was sacked. We had only won 1 in 10 before CP came and that win was in the cup against lower league opposition.
2) Why play One up front he is trying to change things with a 4-1-4-1 formation so that we keep the ball better. The players didn't deliver.
3) Continue to play people out of position (jenkinson LB we haven't any fit left backs, Racon left wing he wasn't played as a left winger, Reid was left wing and Wagstaff up front) you say we played one up front, that was Benson so either Waggy wasn't up front or we played more than one up front?
4) Francis keeps place and takes most set plays perhaps he sees him playing confidently in training, then when people groan as soon as he touches the ball, he loses confidence. See your first question
5) Passing and movement is so poor see your first question, its about lack of confidence.
6) How long has Powell got?? in my view at least until next Christmas but I hope, many years.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]In an earlier post Ormiston questioned the performance of the team under Parky.
Ormiston I respect you have a different take on Parky's time to me but I quote from AFKAs excellent summary on the "where its all gone wrong" thread
"Ahead of Powell's first game in charge, Charlton had recorded just 1 win in 10 games, and that being an arguably fortuitous win against a non-league team in an FA Cup replay."
This is the reality of the final period of Parky's tenure. It will have included the Spuds game where he wasn't in charge and also possibly the Wednesday game, but the season had gone wrong during Parkys time. I witnessed the debacle against Swindon first hand, we were woeful.
We can argue the merits of Parky relative to the resources at his disposal. I give him credit for what he achieved. In truth though, he had four opportunities to become a legendary manager for our club.
1. When he took over from Pardew as Temporary manager - absolutely no "new manager" bounce to results
2. When he still had a chance to keep us up - indeed players were signed, in hope of him doing this - this didn't happen
3. When he had a strong (for this Division) squad last season. We started brilliantly yet in the end we failed to overhaul Norwich who started the season in absolute dire straights or Leeds who stumbled in the final third. We played poorly against Swindon in the play off semi first leg. We fell a penalty short.
4. He managed to shape a team this season on meagre resources who, for a brief period, looked like it was seriously challenging but as AKFA points out, it went wrong. He himself stated that he expected his team to gel and improve as the season wore on. That is not borne out by the facts.
For me it comes down to Chris having to try to change things with a set of players signed to do things in a more direct way.
I am not sure where he gets that 1 win in 10 games figure from, its quite wrong.
The ten-game stretch from the home FAC game against Barnet on November 16th and including the game against Swindon at The Valley on January 3rd we had the following record.....
That's a 3-4-3 ratio which is not great but far from sackable when you bear in mind that following the 2-1 L1 loss at Brentford on October 2nd we went on a run of 13 games with just one loss (4-0 Brighton) but featuring 8 wins and 4 draws.
In response to your four points.....
1. When he took over from Pardew as Temporary manager - absolutely no "new manager" bounce to results.
A: That squad was an absolute shambles, we had one central defender (Hudson) and a whole bunch of lightweight midfielders (Ambrose, Zheng etc) and nobody who could win the ball.
2. When he still had a chance to keep us up - indeed players were signed, in hope of him doing this - this didn't happen.
The first thing we did when we appointed Parkinson was to SELL our best attacker - Luke Varney - to fund Pardew's pay-off and he was given no money at all to strengthen the squad. The only player he could bring in was Matt Spring....from Luton.
How he was supposed to re-juvenate the squad with no money for transfer fees or new wages is a mystery to me!
3. When he had a strong (for this Division) squad last season. We started brilliantly yet in the end we failed to overhaul Norwich who started the season in absolute dire straights or Leeds who stumbled in the final third. We played poorly against Swindon in the play off semi first leg. We fell a penalty short.
The squad last season was strong - but this was a legacy of players being left from the CCC era rather than Parkinson having funds to bring in new blood. Sure, we had a strong midfield - arguably the best in L1 - but we crucially lacked the 20-goal striker that ALL our rivals had (Morison, Holt, Martin, Beckford).
If we'd had that player we would have probably gone up but what did we have? Deon Burton, crocked, past his best and never a goalscorer even in his heyday, Akpo Sodje and Dave Mooney.
4. He managed to shape a team this season on meagre resources who, for a brief period, looked like it was seriously challenging but as AKFA points out, it went wrong. He himself stated that he expected his team to gel and improve as the season wore on. That is not borne out by the facts.
True, the team did hit a rough patch and did not gel as he had hoped but in all fairness that is probably because it is a significantly weaker team than the one we fielded last season. When you lose the likes of Richardson, Sam, Bailey, Shelvey, Burton and Randolph and have to replace them with freebies and cast-offs then there will be limits to what can be achieved.
How many of our rivals did their summer shopping at Southend - relegated last season - as we had to?
I will never waver from my view that Parkinson did a good job in tough circumstances and that he was terribly treated by Slater and a section of our fans.
It is only now that people are probably seeing how far above our weight that Parkinson had us competing.
Ormiston a great post and one that I agree with, although will check the 10 game stats in the morning however
For those for and those against and those in between please let's move on CP is manager let's analyse him and his team based on what they do not what they might have done under parkie or curbs or sir Alex etc,.
Ormiston, I agree with you 100%!! I think AFKA's comment that it all started to go wrong for Parky from mid-November is somewhat off the mark. He won the November manager of the month award, following 5 league wins on the trot, including 3 consecutive high scoring wins at Carlisle, Swindon & Peterborough and an excellent home win over Sheffield Wednesday. That 4 game stretch was the best we have played for a long, long time and we really looked like we could kick on & achieve something remarkable. However, after another home win over Yeovil we then faltered and failed to win any of Parky's last 5 league games in charge, albeit still picking up points at Brighton & Colchester.
How can anybody go from being recognised as the best manager in the division one month to being fired a month later is truly remarkable. I can't even remember Parky being presented with his award on the Valley pitch. I guess everyone was too worried about the reaction he would have got.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]That squad was an absolute shambles, we had one central defender (Hudson) and a whole bunch of lightweight midfielders (Ambrose, Zheng etc) and nobody who could win the ball.
Parky was part of the management team which over saw this shambles. I recall we had Bailey at that time who was a combatative player.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]The first thing we did when we appointed Parkinson was to SELL our best attacker - Luke Varney - to fund Pardew's pay-off and he was given no money at all to strengthen the squad. The only player he could bring in was Matt Spring....from Luton.
Varney may have been our best striker but from memory he was off form and not necessarily a shoe in on the team sheet. We signed Burton during that period, we had the defender from Wolves on loan who was quality, Butterfield from Palace on loan.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Sure, we had a strong midfield - arguably the best in L1 - but we crucially lacked the 20-goal striker that ALL our rivals had (Morison, Holt, Martin, Beckford).
Yes but he set the team up to play 4-5-1 and we put in some brilliant performances despite no 20 goals a season man. Then instead of sticking with that, he changed it, brought in some loan strikers who were not the answer. He should have stuck to the original game plan in my view.
We aren't going to see eye to eye over Parky, thats for sure. I don't blame him for what happened. But he did preside over our worst run in history, relegation, and a failure to get us promoted. Despite this, I hoped that he could work the oracle for us this season. I watched the most abject performances against Walsall and Swindon, and the equally vapid performance against 10 man Colchester. It was clear that things had taken a turn for the worse so I can see why they chose that moment to sack him. It may be unfair, but I don't subscribe to that view because I think he had his chances.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]Parky was part of the management team which over saw this shambles. I recall we had Bailey at that time who was a combatative player.
Pardew made the decisions on who to sign though. Bailey alongside lightweight midfielders is still a lightweight midfield - he's combative yes but not tall and powerful.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]Yes but he set the team up to play 4-5-1 and we put in some brilliant performances despite no 20 goals a season man. Then instead of sticking with that, he changed it, brought in some loan strikers who were not the answer. He should have stuck to the original game plan in my view.
Only because opponents figured it out and we started to struggle. Stop Burton and Sam by crowding them out or getting physical players on them and our attacking play was limited.
Like Ormiston said, it's only now we're seeing that he really wasn't as terrible as many fans insisted he was.
However it was perhaps time for Parky to go with the new board coming in, it was a chance for a completely fresh start.
I think I said elsewhere, the slide seemed to start with the takeover.
Sure the board had to arrest that fall, and did so by giving him the tin tack, how much rope will they give powell if that is how much they gave parky? how many losses with the odd scraped draw will it be till they change it again?
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I think I said elsewhere, the slide seemed to start with the takeover.
Sure the board had to arrest that fall, and did so by giving him the tin tack, how much rope will they give powell if that is how much they gave parky? how many losses with the odd scraped draw will it be till they change it again?
The question we are all afraid to ask - except razil
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I think I said elsewhere, the slide seemed to start with the takeover.
Sure the board had to arrest that fall, and did so by giving him the tin tack, how much rope will they give powell if that is how much they gave parky? how many losses with the odd scraped draw will it be till they change it again?
The question we are all afraid to ask - except razil
It's a fair point, I'd like to think CP gets long enough to build his team and get them playing the way he wants, but if we continue this form all the way to the end of the season then you would start to wonder.
Powell will definitely have to show that he is moving in the right direction, I have no doubt about that. I think we will improve sufficiently for him to be given a chance to build- because they appointed him above anything else. We get some of the injured players back and we will be better for a start. The import words are I think - he may not and then I expect we would be looking for a new boss. I still have faith in Powell.
Dowie tried to play a passing game but it left us pretty open. Powell's gone down that route far too early but the signing of a big man up front would mean we could mix it up a bit. Any decentish team can play in different ways to suit the conditions (pitch, weather, opposition, confidence levels etc). He probably ought to try getting back to a Curbishley style, high energy, get stuck in, one winger (Reid) type of game and out of that, players might regain the confidence to play a bit too (and by play, I don't just mean string pretty passes together but have some end product by whatever means...sustained pressure, shots on target, goalmouth action....the sort of things that make you feel you've watched a game rather than a training session). Pick the confidence up first and then the passing will happen naturally, along with the chasing of lost causes, the attacking of the ball, the speed of thought.
PS: What's Fortune's mate, Alan Lee doing at the moment? He'd do. Or Tresor Kandol? He might do.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]I think I said elsewhere, the slide seemed to start with the takeover.
Sure the board had to arrest that fall, and did so by giving him the tin tack, how much rope will they give powell if that is how much they gave parky? how many losses with the odd scraped draw will it be till they change it again?
And there is the rub, once you've sacked someone from 5th position in the table and only 6 L1 losses from 22 games - Powell already has 5 losses from his last 6 L1 games - then you are making a rod for your back.
[cite]Posted By: Simonsen[/cite]PS: What's Fortune's mate, Alan Lee doing at the moment? He'd do. Or Tresor Kandol? He might do.
Alan Lee plays for Huddersfield. Tresor Kandol is currently unattached having been released by Albacete for the following reason:
[cite]Posted By: Wikipedia[/cite]
It was revealed on November 24th that he had been released when the Albacete Club President Rafael Candel described him as "a bad operation."[4]
Comments
Nice comfy seats though.
They had a spine of there team and started by building confidence
Stop comparing us because we are so differnt to are team and there team
We've got three best players? I suppose it's relative...
If we have to give Anyinsah a pet name, perhaps 'China Joe' might be more appropriate. But I presume 'big Joe' is intended to be ironic as his bio says he is five foot eight.
Have to agree with Simonsen. I like him but I am a little dubious about this notion that he is 'vital' to our success.
Until his one good season at Carlisle last year he had made 50 first-team appearances in five years for seven different clubs and scored three goals.[/quote]
What a woeful stat. Done ok when he's played but that's been so rare. He can go and be cuddly joe on someone else's treatment table next season.
Ormiston I respect you have a different take on Parky's time to me but I quote from AFKAs excellent summary on the "where its all gone wrong" thread
"Ahead of Powell's first game in charge, Charlton had recorded just 1 win in 10 games, and that being an arguably fortuitous win against a non-league team in an FA Cup replay."
This is the reality of the final period of Parky's tenure. It will have included the Spuds game where he wasn't in charge and also possibly the Wednesday game, but the season had gone wrong during Parkys time. I witnessed the debacle against Swindon first hand, we were woeful.
We can argue the merits of Parky relative to the resources at his disposal. I give him credit for what he achieved. In truth though, he had four opportunities to become a legendary manager for our club.
1. When he took over from Pardew as Temporary manager - absolutely no "new manager" bounce to results
2. When he still had a chance to keep us up - indeed players were signed, in hope of him doing this - this didn't happen
3. When he had a strong (for this Division) squad last season. We started brilliantly yet in the end we failed to overhaul Norwich who started the season in absolute dire straights or Leeds who stumbled in the final third. We played poorly against Swindon in the play off semi first leg. We fell a penalty short.
4. He managed to shape a team this season on meagre resources who, for a brief period, looked like it was seriously challenging but as AKFA points out, it went wrong. He himself stated that he expected his team to gel and improve as the season wore on. That is not borne out by the facts.
For me it comes down to Chris having to try to change things with a set of players signed to do things in a more direct way.
give him a run to the end of the season and then we'll have a better idea
I am not sure where he gets that 1 win in 10 games figure from, its quite wrong.
The ten-game stretch from the home FAC game against Barnet on November 16th and including the game against Swindon at The Valley on January 3rd we had the following record.....
Won: 3 - (Barnet FAC, Yeovil L1, Luton FAC)
Drew: 4 - (Bristol Rover L1, Luton FAC, Brighton L1, Colchester L1)
Lost: 3 - (Walsall L1, Brentford JPT (pens), Swindon L1)
That's a 3-4-3 ratio which is not great but far from sackable when you bear in mind that following the 2-1 L1 loss at Brentford on October 2nd we went on a run of 13 games with just one loss (4-0 Brighton) but featuring 8 wins and 4 draws.
In response to your four points.....
1. When he took over from Pardew as Temporary manager - absolutely no "new manager" bounce to results.
A: That squad was an absolute shambles, we had one central defender (Hudson) and a whole bunch of lightweight midfielders (Ambrose, Zheng etc) and nobody who could win the ball.
2. When he still had a chance to keep us up - indeed players were signed, in hope of him doing this - this didn't happen.
The first thing we did when we appointed Parkinson was to SELL our best attacker - Luke Varney - to fund Pardew's pay-off and he was given no money at all to strengthen the squad. The only player he could bring in was Matt Spring....from Luton.
How he was supposed to re-juvenate the squad with no money for transfer fees or new wages is a mystery to me!
3. When he had a strong (for this Division) squad last season. We started brilliantly yet in the end we failed to overhaul Norwich who started the season in absolute dire straights or Leeds who stumbled in the final third. We played poorly against Swindon in the play off semi first leg. We fell a penalty short.
The squad last season was strong - but this was a legacy of players being left from the CCC era rather than Parkinson having funds to bring in new blood. Sure, we had a strong midfield - arguably the best in L1 - but we crucially lacked the 20-goal striker that ALL our rivals had (Morison, Holt, Martin, Beckford).
If we'd had that player we would have probably gone up but what did we have? Deon Burton, crocked, past his best and never a goalscorer even in his heyday, Akpo Sodje and Dave Mooney.
4. He managed to shape a team this season on meagre resources who, for a brief period, looked like it was seriously challenging but as AKFA points out, it went wrong. He himself stated that he expected his team to gel and improve as the season wore on. That is not borne out by the facts.
True, the team did hit a rough patch and did not gel as he had hoped but in all fairness that is probably because it is a significantly weaker team than the one we fielded last season. When you lose the likes of Richardson, Sam, Bailey, Shelvey, Burton and Randolph and have to replace them with freebies and cast-offs then there will be limits to what can be achieved.
How many of our rivals did their summer shopping at Southend - relegated last season - as we had to?
I will never waver from my view that Parkinson did a good job in tough circumstances and that he was terribly treated by Slater and a section of our fans.
It is only now that people are probably seeing how far above our weight that Parkinson had us competing.
For those for and those against and those in between please let's move on CP is manager let's analyse him and his team based on what they do not what they might have done under parkie or curbs or sir Alex etc,.
How can anybody go from being recognised as the best manager in the division one month to being fired a month later is truly remarkable. I can't even remember Parky being presented with his award on the Valley pitch. I guess everyone was too worried about the reaction he would have got.
Varney may have been our best striker but from memory he was off form and not necessarily a shoe in on the team sheet. We signed Burton during that period, we had the defender from Wolves on loan who was quality, Butterfield from Palace on loan.
Yes but he set the team up to play 4-5-1 and we put in some brilliant performances despite no 20 goals a season man. Then instead of sticking with that, he changed it, brought in some loan strikers who were not the answer. He should have stuck to the original game plan in my view.
We aren't going to see eye to eye over Parky, thats for sure. I don't blame him for what happened. But he did preside over our worst run in history, relegation, and a failure to get us promoted. Despite this, I hoped that he could work the oracle for us this season. I watched the most abject performances against Walsall and Swindon, and the equally vapid performance against 10 man Colchester. It was clear that things had taken a turn for the worse so I can see why they chose that moment to sack him. It may be unfair, but I don't subscribe to that view because I think he had his chances.
Only because opponents figured it out and we started to struggle. Stop Burton and Sam by crowding them out or getting physical players on them and our attacking play was limited.
Like Ormiston said, it's only now we're seeing that he really wasn't as terrible as many fans insisted he was.
However it was perhaps time for Parky to go with the new board coming in, it was a chance for a completely fresh start.
Sure the board had to arrest that fall, and did so by giving him the tin tack, how much rope will they give powell if that is how much they gave parky? how many losses with the odd scraped draw will it be till they change it again?
The question we are all afraid to ask - except razil
It's a fair point, I'd like to think CP gets long enough to build his team and get them playing the way he wants, but if we continue this form all the way to the end of the season then you would start to wonder.
PS: What's Fortune's mate, Alan Lee doing at the moment? He'd do. Or Tresor Kandol? He might do.
And there is the rub, once you've sacked someone from 5th position in the table and only 6 L1 losses from 22 games - Powell already has 5 losses from his last 6 L1 games - then you are making a rod for your back.
Alan Lee plays for Huddersfield. Tresor Kandol is currently unattached having been released by Albacete for the following reason: