"Meet the new boss, just the same as the old boss" :0)
Judging Powell after his first 8 games is just as futile as judging Parky after his first 8.
Powell was bought in to change our style of play and to coach our players to become better players and 8 games is a ludicrously short time to judge the success or failure of that.
The problem before and the problem now is that in key positions the players we have just aren't good enough. The problem may be that, by trying to get them to play in a different style may have exposed the deficiencies of these players even more than they were already.
We don't have a team at the moment and we need to give the CP time to build one.
Until then, I won't be expecting much from the current bunch 'gracing' the Valley turf.
Let's face it, we are highly likely to still be in this division next season, so this summer will be the chance for CP to mould the team the way he wants it.
If we all chuck our toys out of the pram now, it's hardly going to help, is it?
parky's 8 league games prior to his dismissal got us 12 points, although i accept that a few of them were against 10 men and scp has got the same tally with parky's team.
No, of course not. I've decided it's definitely the players that are the problem BUT they were Parky's players and they were not even performing for him. Powell has inherited a poor squad which he wasn't able to assess and suitably change in the transfer window. We can now either get three loan players in now through the spine of the team or we can virtually write this season off and give the likes of Harriott, Solly, Jenks, Warren, Cousins etc some exposure so they are prepared for next season when we are going to need them.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Imnot Athletic[/cite]"Meet the new boss, just the same as the old boss" :0)
Agrere with the above, its the same old same old..............even down to the manger standing on the touchline with his arms folded all game.
Although I'm not saying Powell Out at this stage (far, far too early), I will say, and have said it on here over the last few games,that I feel he is out of his depth and could do with some help from an old hand (BUT NOT PEACOCK).........maybe Curbs on a temporay basis until the end of the season ?
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]No, of course not. I've decided it's definitely the players that are the problem BUT they were Parky's players and they were not even performing for him. Powell has inherited a poor squad which he wasn't able to assess and suitably change in the transfer window. We can now either get three loan players in now through the spine of the team or we can virtually write this season off and give the likes of Harriott, Solly, Jenks, Warren, Cousins etc some exposure so they are prepared for next season when we are going to need them.
Parky deserves credit for assembling a side over the summer from virtually nothing, but there are obviously fundamental flaws in it's make up . Powell should be using the rest of this season to assess those flaws, identify realistic targets to significantly improve the squad and then hit the ground running when the window opens. In some ways I would prefer him to be trying to reassemble a squad to compete for promotion in L1 next season then attempting to bed in a new side while trying to survive in the Championship.
The team are going backwards. One of the worst/gutless performances i have seen in over 30 years. Three players playing in wrong positions for starters, Players not getting stuck in and getting run over by a two bob side.
I have no doubt that we would have had a far better shot at promotion this season if Parky had stayed. Longer term though? Who knows.
Parky did an amazing job assembling a team on a very limited budget after 20 odd players left in the close season. Remember that on the first day of pre-season training we only had 7 players under contract! Parky then did wonders to push that limited team up to 2nd position at one stage, and it was still sitting in 5th when he left. He was then forced out by the new owners as a direct result of the crowd reaction after the Swindon home defeat. I still believe that that was a shocking decision.
When CP was appointed he inherited a very limited team and he has struggled to improve it since. He is now trying to impose a different playing style on these limited players and so far they have just not proved up to it. It's not really a surprise is it? Give him some time and it may all come together. I suspect that it may all be too late for this season, however.
Interesting debate. 1. It's the Manager, not the players 2. It's the players, not the Manager 3. Changing Managers is no good if the players are shite 4. Changing players is no good if the Manager is shite
IMO if changing the players to a higher calibre was the answer the anyone could Manage them. Parky had time and we were ordinary and not good enough for promotion.......even if we made the play offs. Give CP a bit more time.......play offs have gone for this season, let CP get some of his own in, and hopefully some good young players from the reserves/youth (a la Curbs) and then we can judge.
NO - Give CP a chance he is still learning the trade if people thought he was going to work miracles with this lot then they are sadly misguided. He will make mistakes, lets wait & see what happens when he brings his own players in, though I think they will have to be loans as there won't be money from gate receipts after the last few performances.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete in Dubai[/cite]I have no doubt that we would have had a far better shot at promotion this season if Parky had stayed. Longer term though? Who knows.
Parky did an amazing job assembling a team on a very limited budget after 20 odd players left in the close season. Remember that on the first day of pre-season training we only had 7 players under contract! Parky then did wonders to push that limited team up to 2nd position at one stage, and it was still sitting in 5th when he left. He was then forced out by the new owners as a direct result of the crowd reaction after the Swindon home defeat. I still believe that that was a shocking decision.
When CP was appointed he inherited a very limited team and he has struggled to improve it since. He is now trying to impose a different playing style on these limited players and so far they have just not proved up to it. It's not really a surprise is it? Give him some time and it may all come together. I suspect that it may all be too late for this season, however.
Slight contradiction there I think Pete. If Parky did such an amazing job, why did he leave such a limited team for CP to inherit? The fact is that under Parky the quality of players was getting worse and worse. The reason for that was because
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship He failed to get us promoted last season with one of the strongest squads in the league
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
We were on a road to nowhere with Parky with any quality being sold off only to be replaced with dross.
CP thus far has signed one player SWP who I think anyone woud agree is just the type of player we needed, a goalscorer.
It's very early days, two more decent signings and things could look very different. At least Powell is trying to play football in the correct way, sometimes things need to get worse before they get better. We all need to keep the faith.
I cannot for the life of me understand why we should still be talking about Parky. He is gone, he won't be coming back, get a grip people we need to deal with the future. This argument can not be won by either side, and it of no consequence, get a hobby.
Slight contradiction there I think Pete. If Parky did such an amazing job, why did he leave such a limited team for CP to inherit?
It's not a contradiction though is it? The players are limited because that is all we could afford at the start of the season. But still Parky managed to get them up to the heights of 2nd place. I believe that that is a pretty good job.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]Until we stop bringing in gash players like Francis and McOxo, that had helped relegate Southend, this club will go nowhere.
Powell needs Cash.
Think about it...
So did parky... Do people honestly think that all these players we have were Parky's first choices...?
He got the best players he could, in the main for nothing, and still managed to give his boss what was asked of him... "A competitive team."
When we were crap under Parky it was Parky's fault and everyone screamed for his head. Now under CP we are still poor and it is now the players fault, with a few unpopular players being individually blamed. We are conceding a shed load of goals whilst we have a management team of 2 defenders and a midfield player, which has to speak volumes about the way they are coaching. We have got what everyone demanded and are we any better off?.......well no we are not. Can't recall the last time that we lost 4 games on the spin.
[cite]Posted By: Granpa[/cite]I cannot for the life of me understand why we should still be talking about Parky. He is gone, he won't be coming back, get a grip people we need to deal with the future. This argument can not be won by either side, and it of no consequence, get a hobby.
Agree for or against parkie he is not coming back and we need to continue to back him anew the team. Wallowing in the parkie debate that has divided us for so long is fruitless
[cite]Posted By: PaulCAFC[/cite]Can't recall the last time that we lost 4 games on the spin.
It was back in Dowies tenure when we lost 5 times on the trot to Chelsea (A), Portsmouth (H), Villa (A), Arsenal (H) and Fulham (A).We then broke the run with a home draw to Watford.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete in Dubai[/cite]I have no doubt that we would have had a far better shot at promotion this season if Parky had stayed. Longer term though? Who knows.
Parky did an amazing job assembling a team on a very limited budget after 20 odd players left in the close season. Remember that on the first day of pre-season training we only had 7 players under contract! Parky then did wonders to push that limited team up to 2nd position at one stage, and it was still sitting in 5th when he left. He was then forced out by the new owners as a direct result of the crowd reaction after the Swindon home defeat. I still believe that that was a shocking decision.
When CP was appointed he inherited a very limited team and he has struggled to improve it since. He is now trying to impose a different playing style on these limited players and so far they have just not proved up to it. It's not really a surprise is it? Give him some time and it may all come together. I suspect that it may all be too late for this season, however.
Good post Red Pete, i have nothing to add to that.
[cite]Posted By: PaulCAFC[/cite]When we were crap under Parky it was Parky's fault and everyone screamed for his head. Now under CP we are still poor and it is now the players fault, with a few unpopular players being individually blamed. We are conceding a shed load of goals whilst we have a management team of 2 defenders and a midfield player, which has to speak volumes about the way they are coaching. We have got what everyone demanded and are we any better off?.......well no we are not. Can't recall the last time that we lost 4 games on the spin.
Slight contradiction there I think Pete. If Parky did such an amazing job, why did he leave such a limited team for CP to inherit?[/cite]
[cite]
It's not a contradiction though is it? The players are limited because that is all we could afford at the start of the season. But still Parky managed to get them up to the heights of 2nd place. I believe that that is a pretty good job.[/cite]
And the reason he had no money to spend was, and I repeat :
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship He failed to get us promoted last season with one of the strongest squads in the league
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
He feathered his own nest and ours as supporters by failing to bring any success with better players (from the championship) than is currently available to CP.
Hilarious! "Talking about Parky is fruitless?
Maybe on many levels it is, but it has proved that just changing managers isn't always going to give us instant success... The knee jerkers think differently, and the proof is out there, in all those hundreds of "SO & SO OUT" threads...
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]And the reason he had no money to spend was, and I repeat :
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship He failed to get us promoted last season with one of the strongest squads in the league
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
He feathered his own nest and ours as supporters by failing to bring any success with better players (from the championship) than is currently available to CP.
I think that is incredibly.
The money had already gone 2 years before he took over - we were treading water financially. In terms of "one of the strongest squads", yes I agree, maybe one of the four strongest squads in the league (along with Norwich, Leeds and Southampton). Remind me where we finished again?
I think a key point is that if we want to reach the Championship again, there is no hope of surviving there with the current squad. This means that there needs to be a real change to the squad in the Summer. The new owners are said to be seriously rich, and seem to be sensible and ambitious, so my plan is to go into hibernation for the rest of the season whilst continuing my support and encouragement, and look forward to some real action from them ready for next season.
[cite]Posted By: queensland_addick[/cite]And the reason he had no money to spend was, and I repeat :
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship He failed to get us promoted last season with one of the strongest squads in the league
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
He feathered his own nest and ours as supporters by failing to bring any success with better players (from the championship) than is currently available to CP.
I think that is incredibly.
The money had already gone 2 years before he took over - we were treading water financially. In terms of "one of the strongest squads", yes I agree, maybe one of the four strongest squads in the league (along with Norwich, Leeds and Southampton). Remind me where we finished again?
We finished in League one, which is where we may well be for a prolonged period now because most of our quality players were sold off during the Pardew/Parky regimes due to failure.
BTW had Parky managed to keep us in the Championship our financial predicament wouldn't have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be with relegation to league one. That was an absolute financial disaster for the club.
The new owners are said to be seriously rich, and seem to be sensible and ambitious, so my plan is to go into hibernation for the rest of the season whilst continuing my support and encouragement, and look forward to some real action from them ready for next season.
Don't matter how rich they are, they're not going to help us much if they don't invest in the most important thing at any football club... The squad...
We needed a boost in January, BWP, Ecclestone & Bessone may have helped, but there were still major flaws in the squad that weren't addressed.
Why do you think "the action will come from them in the summer".
Comments
Judging Powell after his first 8 games is just as futile as judging Parky after his first 8.
Powell was bought in to change our style of play and to coach our players to become better players and 8 games is a ludicrously short time to judge the success or failure of that.
The problem before and the problem now is that in key positions the players we have just aren't good enough. The problem may be that, by trying to get them to play in a different style may have exposed the deficiencies of these players even more than they were already.
Until then, I won't be expecting much from the current bunch 'gracing' the Valley turf.
Let's face it, we are highly likely to still be in this division next season, so this summer will be the chance for CP to mould the team the way he wants it.
If we all chuck our toys out of the pram now, it's hardly going to help, is it?
Judging him after 8 games with someone else's (limited) team is insane.
Good luck to him.
Agrere with the above, its the same old same old..............even down to the manger standing on the touchline with his arms folded all game.
Although I'm not saying Powell Out at this stage (far, far too early), I will say, and have said it on here over the last few games,that I feel he is out of his depth and could do with some help from an old hand (BUT NOT PEACOCK).........maybe Curbs on a temporay basis until the end of the season ?
Parky deserves credit for assembling a side over the summer from virtually nothing, but there are obviously fundamental flaws in it's make up . Powell should be using the rest of this season to assess those flaws, identify realistic targets to significantly improve the squad and then hit the ground running when the window opens. In some ways I would prefer him to be trying to reassemble a squad to compete for promotion in L1 next season then attempting to bed in a new side while trying to survive in the Championship.
Parky did an amazing job assembling a team on a very limited budget after 20 odd players left in the close season. Remember that on the first day of pre-season training we only had 7 players under contract! Parky then did wonders to push that limited team up to 2nd position at one stage, and it was still sitting in 5th when he left. He was then forced out by the new owners as a direct result of the crowd reaction after the Swindon home defeat. I still believe that that was a shocking decision.
When CP was appointed he inherited a very limited team and he has struggled to improve it since. He is now trying to impose a different playing style on these limited players and so far they have just not proved up to it. It's not really a surprise is it? Give him some time and it may all come together. I suspect that it may all be too late for this season, however.
1. It's the Manager, not the players
2. It's the players, not the Manager
3. Changing Managers is no good if the players are shite
4. Changing players is no good if the Manager is shite
IMO if changing the players to a higher calibre was the answer the anyone could Manage them. Parky had time and we were ordinary and not good enough for promotion.......even if we made the play offs. Give CP a bit more time.......play offs have gone for this season, let CP get some of his own in, and hopefully some good young players from the reserves/youth (a la Curbs) and then we can judge.
Slight contradiction there I think Pete. If Parky did such an amazing job, why did he leave such a limited team for CP to inherit? The fact is that under Parky the quality of players was getting worse and worse. The reason for that was because
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
We were on a road to nowhere with Parky with any quality being sold off only to be replaced with dross.
CP thus far has signed one player SWP who I think anyone woud agree is just the type of player we needed, a goalscorer.
It's very early days, two more decent signings and things could look very different. At least Powell is trying to play football in the correct way, sometimes things need to get worse before they get better. We all need to keep the faith.
Powell needs Cash.
Think about it...
So did parky... Do people honestly think that all these players we have were Parky's first choices...?
He got the best players he could, in the main for nothing, and still managed to give his boss what was asked of him... "A competitive team."
Agree for or against parkie he is not coming back and we need to continue to back him anew the team. Wallowing in the parkie debate that has divided us for so long is fruitless
Good post Red Pete, i have nothing to add to that.
...we were still fifth.
Couldnt have put it better myself.
And the reason he had no money to spend was, and I repeat :
A) He failed miserably to keep us in the Championship
Even when he had a quality player at his disposal (Shelvey) he refused to play him.
He feathered his own nest and ours as supporters by failing to bring any success with better players (from the championship) than is currently available to CP.
Maybe on many levels it is, but it has proved that just changing managers isn't always going to give us instant success... The knee jerkers think differently, and the proof is out there, in all those hundreds of "SO & SO OUT" threads...
The money had already gone 2 years before he took over - we were treading water financially. In terms of "one of the strongest squads", yes I agree, maybe one of the four strongest squads in the league (along with Norwich, Leeds and Southampton). Remind me where we finished again?
We finished in League one, which is where we may well be for a prolonged period now because most of our quality players were sold off during the Pardew/Parky regimes due to failure.
BTW had Parky managed to keep us in the Championship our financial predicament wouldn't have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be with relegation to league one. That was an absolute financial disaster for the club.
Don't matter how rich they are, they're not going to help us much if they don't invest in the most important thing at any football club... The squad...
We needed a boost in January, BWP, Ecclestone & Bessone may have helped, but there were still major flaws in the squad that weren't addressed.
Why do you think "the action will come from them in the summer".