[cite]Posted By: Essex_Al[/cite]Agreed Dave, he would certainly bring some passion to the club, a quality we are lacking at present.
Where are we "lacking passion"? Murray has called Parky the hardest working manager he's ever had. It's clear Parky is determined to be a success here.
All the work Parky has put in is surely exactly what passion is. No one would say Kinsella lacks passion would they?
Like Prague said, where does Wise fit in? I don't think we should be forcing Parky or any new manager to work with a Director of Football or other football related staff that he doesn't want.
What if it is announced on the pitch that it is Wise, will everyone boo or will we show support? I am not a big fan of Wise but really can he do any more harm then where we are now? No money and stuck in League one? Varney has made a couple of mistakes but has always tried to do what's best for Charlton. If Wise is part of his future plans then I will support that decision.
[cite]Posted By: Essex_Al[/cite]Agreed Dave, he would certainly bring some passion to the club, a quality we are lacking at present.
Where are we "lacking passion"? Murray has called Parky the hardest working manager he's ever had. It's clear Parky is determined to be a success here.
All the work Parky has put in is surely exactly what passion is. No one would say Kinsella lacks passion would they?
Like Prague said, where does Wise fit in? I don't think we should be forcing Parky or any new manager to work with a Director of Football or other football related staff that he doesn't want.
Don't get me wrong Scoham, I am still backing Parky, I'm sure he is a hard working manager (but that does not make him passionate) and I'm not suggesting that Wise should replace him, but I just feel that the team, especially, lack the passion. I never get the feeling that they are pumped up for a game and that shows. Parky doesn't exactly get too excited on the touchline does he, or Breaker come to think of it!
I happen to echo Bankok Dave's post and don't understand all the Wise bashing on here.
There is a world of difference between passion and a short malicious temper.
Passion for example is what drives Peter Burkill, the captain of the downed BA777 to write a book about his experience (not so much the crash, but all the crap that happened afterwards), which I happen to be reading now.
[cite]Posted By: Essex_Al[/cite]Agreed Dave, he would certainly bring some passion to the club, a quality we are lacking at present.
Where are we "lacking passion"? Murray has called Parky the hardest working manager he's ever had. It's clear Parky is determined to be a success here.
All the work Parky has put in is surely exactly what passion is. No one would say Kinsella lacks passion would they?
Like Prague said, where does Wise fit in? I don't think we should be forcing Parky or any new manager to work with a Director of Football or other football related staff that he doesn't want.
Don't get me wrong Scoham, I am still backing Parky, I'm sure he is a hard working manager (but that does not make him passionate) and I'm not suggesting that Wise should replace him, but I just feel that the team, especially, lack the passion. I never get the feeling that they are pumped up for a game and that shows. Parky doesn't exactly get too excited on the touchline does he, or Breaker come to think of it!
I happen to echo Bankok Dave's post and don't understand all the Wise bashing on here.
Depends what we all mean by passion then I suppose. I'd rather a hard working manager that thinks about what he's doing than someone who shouts and screams on the touchline and gets no where (of course it probably works for some managers and players). Had Parky ranted at the team during and after the Brighton game we probably wouldn't have gone on the run we did.
If Varney/Murray etc see a place for Wise then I'm happy for him to be given a chance, at the moment I'm just not sure where it would be.
Was just wondering what people on here would think if we had someone like Marcus Evans at Ipswich behind the scenes - i.e. apparently absolutely loaded, but with a big X in the box for no publicity. Christ, you can't even find a picture of him on the internet - the only one there is has his face pixelated out. What's THAT all about?
Passion is the most overated commodity in football. Most fans would consider themselves far more passionate about their club and game than any player or manager but you've only got to read the bollocks spouted on any message board during and immediately after any match to realise that 99% of fans couldn't be trusted to make clear and sensible decisions regarding their club, especially in pressure situations.
The only manager I can think of who is keen on bouncing up and down on the touchline AND has been successful is Martin O'Neill. All the top top managers Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelloti, Capello etc etc spend most of their time during a game calmly observing what is going on and trying to maintain a clear head so they make good decisions. Sure they all lose it occassionally, often with a ref but mostly they keep a lid on their emotions. Just like Parky and Curbs before him.
Hard work, commitment, intelligence and level head under pressure are what you need in leaders - not chest thumping morons.
Not shure I agree with Mourino but yes, your right about the top managers. My point really is that they can still have their team pumped up for a game. How many dismal first half displays have we seen from Charlton this season, they just don't seem to be ready to play!
And how many good second half displays have we seen after Parky has had a chance to talk to them at half time.
It's the usual story - when it goes wrong it's all Parky's fault, when it goes right it any one but Parky's doing. I don't think motivation is particularly one of our management teams weaknesses and in fact we usually start games quite brightly and fade towards the second half of the first half - Brighton being a prime example, likewise we played like that vs Notts County.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Was just wondering what people on here would think if we had someone like Marcus Evans at Ipswich behind the scenes - i.e. apparently absolutely loaded, but with a big X in the box for no publicity. Christ, you can't even find a picture of him on the internet - the only one there is has his face pixelated out. What's THAT all about?[/quote]
Football is littered with examples of non-football people getting involved in ownership as a means of bolstering their public image and self-esteem only to look more than somewhat foolish when they sell out a few years later taking a massive loss, both financially and to their egos. BTW, what's Simon Jordan up to these days?
That's my point exactly Exiled, why does it take a half time rollicking to get them playing, they should be up for it from the first minute.
I'm not knocking Parky at all, I think he has performed admirably with what he has at his disposal, but my comments were about passion and I still stand by the lack of it.
For a short tutorial on how passion doesn't necessarily = results have a quick look at the legendary video diary on John Sitton''s ill fated time in charge at Leyton Orient. Nobody can deny that he was passionate as he melted into a sweary rage, but he wasn't much good.
Worth keeping an eye out for the bit where he challenges (largely through the medium of expletives) an underperforming player to a fight, then tells him to bring his mate and his lunch, as if he's planning the fight to be an all day affair, with meal breaks. Car crash viewing.
If we can afford a Director of Football under the new owners then they have to have cash. Cant see how you can justify a DoF at 3rd div level unless your minted. I would prefer to see the reserve team put back in place, which i think is hiting much harder than we thought it would.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Was just wondering what people on here would think if we had someone like Marcus Evans at Ipswich behind the scenes - i.e. apparently absolutely loaded, but with a big X in the box for no publicity. Christ, you can't even find a picture of him on the internet - the only one there is has his face pixelated out. What's THAT all about?
Football is littered with examples of non-football people getting involved in ownership as a means of bolstering their public image and self-esteem only to look more than somewhat foolish when they sell out a few years later taking a massive loss, both financially and to their egos. BTW, what's Simon Jordan up to these days?
That's true BFR, but I'm not entirely sure you can level that sort of comment at ME. I mean, if he were the sort of egomaniac in the Jordan category then he'd have his mug everywhere and be publicly lapping it up. That said, if he really doesn't want to court the public eye then why would you name your company after yourself and have the name emblazoned across the teams shirts? It's a stange one, no mistake.
Am just wondering how we would react to that sort of ownership, particularly after our years of (relative) openness and transparency. Anyone?
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]If we can afford a Director of Football under the new owners then they have to have cash. Cant see how you can justify a DoF at 3rd div level unless your minted. I would prefer to see the reserve team put back in place, which i think is hiting much harder than we thought it would.
Lennie? Last time I checked, Rovers weren't minted
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]If we can afford a Director of Football under the new owners then they have to have cash. Cant see how you can justify a DoF at 3rd div level unless your minted. I would prefer to see the reserve team put back in place, which i think is hiting much harder than we thought it would.
Lennie? Last time I checked, Rovers weren't minted
He would've been on a nominal wage, as would have Trollope, it was more a case of an experienced old head guiding through a young up and coming manager. I doubt their combined salary was more than middle of the road for this division.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Was just wondering what people on here would think if we had someone like Marcus Evans at Ipswich behind the scenes - i.e. apparently absolutely loaded, but with a big X in the box for no publicity. Christ, you can't even find a picture of him on the internet - the only one there is has his face pixelated out. What's THAT all about?[/quote]
Football is littered with examples of non-football people getting involved in ownership as a means of bolstering their public image and self-esteem only to look more than somewhat foolish when they sell out a few years later taking a massive loss, both financially and to their egos. BTW, what's Simon Jordan up to these days?[/quote]
That's true BFR, but I'm not entirely sure you can level that sort of comment at ME. I mean, if he were the sort of egomaniac in the Jordan category then he'd have his mug everywhere and be publicly lapping it up. That said, if he really doesn't want to court the public eye then why would you name your company after yourself and have the name emblazoned across the teams shirts? It's a stange one, no mistake.
Am just wondering how we would react to that sort of ownership, particularly after our years of (relative) openness and transparency. Anyone?[/quote]
I presume that he named his business after himself to leverage an asset - that his name meant something and carried a bit of cachet in the business in which he operates. Or maybe his desire for privacy is simple, he doesn't want to claim the glory if things go well, but equally he doesn't want to cop any flak if things go pearshaped.
Looking at his wiki page he's based himself in Bermuda, it seems the way he operates might not be too everyone's taste:
So passion seems to be a controversial word, interpreted in different ways. Passion to me is caring when we lose, loving when we win, hating being cheated and showing it. This thread is about Wise. If our new owners want him, trust him and he is part of the package, then we need to take it. Love him, loathe him. He has a lot to offer us.
[cite]Posted By: Bangkok Dave[/cite]So passion seems to be a controversial word, interpreted in different ways. Passion to me is caring when we lose, loving when we win, hating being cheated and showing it. This thread is about Wise. If our new owners want him, trust him and he is part of the package, then we need to take it. Love him, loathe him. He has a lot to offer us.
Comments
All the work Parky has put in is surely exactly what passion is. No one would say Kinsella lacks passion would they?
Like Prague said, where does Wise fit in? I don't think we should be forcing Parky or any new manager to work with a Director of Football or other football related staff that he doesn't want.
I am not a big fan of Wise but really can he do any more harm then where we are now? No money and stuck in League one?
Varney has made a couple of mistakes but has always tried to do what's best for Charlton. If Wise is part of his future plans then I will support that decision.
I respect your opinion, you believe in giving people a chance and neither of us know him personally , I presume. But you didnt convince me.
If this comes to pass, what would change my mind is if Peter Varney lets us know what Wise's role will be and why he thinks it would work.
if I don't get that, I'll be right at the front of the campaign to get him out before he's even had time to sign a dodgy Peruvian.
Don't really see the benefits of getting our knickers in a twist about him before he arrives (if he even arrives at all).
And whatever he did at Newcastle, I'd rather have him than their newly appointed manager. Or the twat who worked there as assistant to Shearer.
Don't get me wrong Scoham, I am still backing Parky, I'm sure he is a hard working manager (but that does not make him passionate) and I'm not suggesting that Wise should replace him, but I just feel that the team, especially, lack the passion. I never get the feeling that they are pumped up for a game and that shows. Parky doesn't exactly get too excited on the touchline does he, or Breaker come to think of it!
I happen to echo Bankok Dave's post and don't understand all the Wise bashing on here.
Passion for example is what drives Peter Burkill, the captain of the downed BA777 to write a book about his experience (not so much the crash, but all the crap that happened afterwards), which I happen to be reading now.
If Varney/Murray etc see a place for Wise then I'm happy for him to be given a chance, at the moment I'm just not sure where it would be.
The only manager I can think of who is keen on bouncing up and down on the touchline AND has been successful is Martin O'Neill. All the top top managers Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger, Ancelloti, Capello etc etc spend most of their time during a game calmly observing what is going on and trying to maintain a clear head so they make good decisions. Sure they all lose it occassionally, often with a ref but mostly they keep a lid on their emotions. Just like Parky and Curbs before him.
Hard work, commitment, intelligence and level head under pressure are what you need in leaders - not chest thumping morons.
Given the option, most successful managers would sit in the West Stand with the rest of the intelligent thinkers.
Ia*n D*wie would be in the North Upper.
It's the usual story - when it goes wrong it's all Parky's fault, when it goes right it any one but Parky's doing. I don't think motivation is particularly one of our management teams weaknesses and in fact we usually start games quite brightly and fade towards the second half of the first half - Brighton being a prime example, likewise we played like that vs Notts County.
Football is littered with examples of non-football people getting involved in ownership as a means of bolstering their public image and self-esteem only to look more than somewhat foolish when they sell out a few years later taking a massive loss, both financially and to their egos. BTW, what's Simon Jordan up to these days?
I'm not knocking Parky at all, I think he has performed admirably with what he has at his disposal, but my comments were about passion and I still stand by the lack of it.
Worth keeping an eye out for the bit where he challenges (largely through the medium of expletives) an underperforming player to a fight, then tells him to bring his mate and his lunch, as if he's planning the fight to be an all day affair, with meal breaks. Car crash viewing.
That's true BFR, but I'm not entirely sure you can level that sort of comment at ME. I mean, if he were the sort of egomaniac in the Jordan category then he'd have his mug everywhere and be publicly lapping it up. That said, if he really doesn't want to court the public eye then why would you name your company after yourself and have the name emblazoned across the teams shirts? It's a stange one, no mistake.
Am just wondering how we would react to that sort of ownership, particularly after our years of (relative) openness and transparency. Anyone?
Lennie? Last time I checked, Rovers weren't minted
He would've been on a nominal wage, as would have Trollope, it was more a case of an experienced old head guiding through a young up and coming manager. I doubt their combined salary was more than middle of the road for this division.
Football is littered with examples of non-football people getting involved in ownership as a means of bolstering their public image and self-esteem only to look more than somewhat foolish when they sell out a few years later taking a massive loss, both financially and to their egos. BTW, what's Simon Jordan up to these days?[/quote]
That's true BFR, but I'm not entirely sure you can level that sort of comment at ME. I mean, if he were the sort of egomaniac in the Jordan category then he'd have his mug everywhere and be publicly lapping it up. That said, if he really doesn't want to court the public eye then why would you name your company after yourself and have the name emblazoned across the teams shirts? It's a stange one, no mistake.
Am just wondering how we would react to that sort of ownership, particularly after our years of (relative) openness and transparency. Anyone?[/quote]
I presume that he named his business after himself to leverage an asset - that his name meant something and carried a bit of cachet in the business in which he operates. Or maybe his desire for privacy is simple, he doesn't want to claim the glory if things go well, but equally he doesn't want to cop any flak if things go pearshaped.
Looking at his wiki page he's based himself in Bermuda, it seems the way he operates might not be too everyone's taste:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Evans
He seems to have accrued a few law suits from organisers of large events.
This...